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The Crocodile's Wrath - (Peaked #4)

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by Neliel, Nov 3, 2012.

  1. Neliel

    Neliel Sacred Sword

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2012
    Messages:
    565


    The crocodile's Wrath


    [​IMG]


    Hi guys! Im back with another Rtm. This time i will present you a fun team to use, builded around Feraligatr. I used it on the ladder for a few weeks and i peaked #4 with this team. Feraligatr is a beast under rain, use it people!
    Anyway, here is the screen:
    Show Hide
    [​IMG]

    So, without further ado, lets see the team!


    Building Phase:




    Well as i said before, i wanted a team builded around feraligatr. The rain support is pretty much obvious, since without the rain feraligatr would miss a lot of kos.
    [​IMG][​IMG]


    Mmm, with two water on the team, i was obvioulsy weak to Grass and Eletric too much, so i added Breloom, which helps me dealing with Ferrothorn, but also can Lure a lot of things that otherwise could stop Feraligatr, with a set that you will see later.
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]


    I needed a steel type, with great bulk and possibly stealth rocks, since in my mind i already knew that i wouldnt have any other slot to put them. I didnt want defensive things like Ferrothorn, because i also think that two grass are redundant, so i chose Jirachi.
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]


    At this point i needed a pokemon to switch in reliably on Ninetales, and Latios is perfect. It also helps me against rotom-w and fighting types, and with the choice scarf it can revenge kill anything.
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]


    Now i was still weak to Genesect, Fighting types, Ferrothorn and others few things that i dont remember now lol. However i ended up using Toxicroak, before that this i used Gyarados and Starmie but they didnt work well.
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]




    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]




    In a Depth:




    [​IMG]


    Politoed (M) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Drizzle
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Surf
    - Ice Beam
    - Encore
    - Perish Song


    Here i have a Scarf Politoed because i needed a "fast" thing to revenge kill staff Like Dragonite, Garchomp or Mamoswine but also to outspeed all the non-scarfed pokemon Like Tornadus-t, Gengar, Landorus, ect. Encore here gives a lot of opportunity to setup with my sweepers, while Perish song can kill some last standing pokemon or Baton pass teams. Nothing much to say about it, I have surf over Hydro pump because i hate to miss, and thats it.



    [​IMG]


    Jirachi @ Leftovers
    Trait: Serene Grace
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
    Sassy Nature (+SDef, -Spd)
    - Thunder
    - U-turn
    - Iron Head
    - Stealth Rock


    This is a Specially defensive jirachi without wish. Im not a fan of wish without protect, because i also think that if you are using this set in an offensive team, u-turn is extremely better than wish because it can give you more momentum to sweep. Anyway, Iron head is for the stab to hit Tyranitar and Terrakion, Thunder is for the paralize and to hit Water types like Jellicent or Skarmory. Stealth rock because i need it, and... U-turn helps me a lot against Ferrothorn for example, i can u-turn it out while he switch out to jirachi and then send out Breloom to avoid Stealth rocks or something. Im thinking about changing his spread to take less damage from Outrage, but frankly i dont know if it matters.



    [​IMG]


    Latios (M) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Draco Meteor
    - Surf
    - Thunder
    - Trick


    This is my main revenge killer, it has that nice speed that can outspeed any other Scarfed pokemon like Keldeo or Terrakion. It also helps against sunny teams somewhat, thanks to the fast Draco meteor it has. The set is standard, i have Thunder to hit water types and trick to trick annoying stuff like some wall or things that are going to sweep me like Calm mind Reuniclus.
    Its also my main answer against Garchomp and Dragon dance Pokemon like Salamence.



    [​IMG]


    Breloom (F) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Technician
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Spore
    - Focus Punch
    - Mach Punch
    - Bullet Seed


    <3 love it. Credit to my friend Sladan for this set. So, anytime im against something slower that i can spore, my opponent just stays in/switch to something that he doesnt need anymore, and then he send out a fight resistor trying to wall me. Here he has the surprise: Focus punch. Orbed Focus punch does a lot to any fight resistor, and it helps me a lot because in this way Toxicroak and Feraligatr can sweep easier.
    Here some calculation of Focus Punch orbed:

    Show Hide
    Dragonite: 394 Atk VS 226 Def and 323 HP (150 Base Power): 183 - 216 (56.65% - 66.87%)

    Salamence: 394 Atk VS 196 Def and 331 HP (150 Base Power): 211 - 248 (63.74% - 74.92%)

    Latios: 394 Atk VS 196 Def and 301 HP (150 Base Power): 211 - 248 (70.09% - 82.39%)

    Starmie: 394 Atk VS 206 Def and 261 HP (150 Base Power): 201 - 236 (77.01% - 90.42%)

    Volcarona: 394 Atk VS 166 Def and 311 HP (150 Base Power): 249 - 293 (80.06% - 94.21%)

    Tornadus: 394 Atk VS 196 Def and 299 HP (150 Base Power): 211 - 248 (70.56% - 82.94%)

    Venusaur: 394 Atk VS 202 Def and 301 HP (150 Base Power): 205 - 241 (68.1% - 80.06%)

    Skarmory: 394 Atk VS 416 Def and 334 HP (150 Base Power): 201 - 236 (60.17% - 70.65%)

    Thundurus: 394 Atk VS 176 Def and 299 HP (150 Base Power): 235 - 276 (78.59% - 92.3%)

    Landorus: 394 Atk VS 216 Def and 319 HP (150 Base Power): 192 - 226 (60.18% - 70.84%)


    So, as you can see, a lot of them are koed after stealth rock damage or after a Mach punch, meaning that Toxicroak and Feraligatr will have no more Dragonite, Landorus, Tornadus, ect trying to stop them.


    [​IMG]


    Toxicroak (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Dry Skin
    EVs: 36 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 216 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Bulk Up
    - Substitute
    - Drain Punch
    - Sucker Punch


    Ok so, Toxicroak. Toxicroak has an amazing typing, an amazing ability, but unfortunately the defensive and even the offensive stat sucks a lot. I tried a lot of set, Sub focus punch or sword dance for example, but i think that bulk up is better to have more longevity. It can switch into Terrakion, Conkeldurr, Breloom, Lucario, Keldeo, Genesect and force them to switch out. Sub here is to avoid being revenge killed and to force things to attack me, so that i can sucher punch them. Drain punch is the obvious stab that helps me staying alive, while sucker punch can be a nice priority against faster pokemon. I have 4 evs in the special defense to avoid the special boost of Genesect, and the speed here is to ouspeed mamoswine, which can be painfull otherwise. Sometimes it can even win the 1 vs 1 against Sub toxic Gliscor thank to Bulk up. Unfortunately, his attack suck so much, so i have to do a lot of bulk up to do decent damage to wall like Hippodown or Skarmory.


    [​IMG]


    Feraligatr (M) @ Mystic Water
    Trait: Torrent
    EVs: 56 HP / 252 Atk / 200 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Swords Dance
    - Aqua Jet
    - Superpower
    - Waterfall


    <3 Feraligatr is a beast. Under rain after a sword dance it can ko a lot of fast things with Aqua jet and a lot of walls with Waterfall. Superpower here is a filler move to hit Gastrodon and Ferrothorn for decent damage, even though i will probably put Crunch here to baitkill Jellicent. This is my late game sweeper, and if i can get the Torrent boost, well lol you have probably lost unless you have a Jellicent. Here i have some damage calculations of Aqua jet after a sword dance and the Torrest boost:
    Show Hide
    Genesect: 339 Atk (+2) VS 226 Def and 283 HP (60 Base Power): 349 - 411 (123.32% - 145.22%)

    Dragonite: 339 Atk (+2) VS 226 Def and 331 HP (60 Base Power): 174 - 205 (52.56% - 61.93%)

    Breloom: 339 Atk (+2) VS 196 Def and 262 HP (60 Base Power): 201 - 236 (76.71% - 90.07%)

    Garchomp: 339 Atk (+2) VS 226 Def and 357 HP (60 Base Power): 349 - 411 (97.75% - 115.12%)

    And here Waterfall:
    Show Hide


    Max def/max hp Politoed: 339 Atk (+2) VS 273 Def and 384 HP (120 Base Power): 288 - 339 (75% - 88.28%)

    Max hp Rotom-w: 339 Atk (+2) VS 250 Def and 304 HP (120 Base Power): 314 - 370 (103.28% - 121.71%)

    Skarmory: 339 Atk (+2) VS 416 Def and 334 HP (120 Base Power): 379 - 446 (113.47% - 133.53%)



    But even without the torrent boost, it hits like a track. I cant say how many times i sweeped with this thing after a boost, it is simply awesome. Use it more people, Feraligatr is a underrated pokemon that needs more love.

    Ett:
    Show Hide
    Worst (Politoed) (M) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Drizzle
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Surf
    - Ice Beam
    - Encore
    - Perish Song

    Sladan (Breloom) (F) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Technician
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Spore
    - Focus Punch
    - Mach Punch
    - Bullet Seed

    Toxicroak (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Dry Skin
    EVs: 36 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 216 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Bulk Up
    - Substitute
    - Drain Punch
    - Sucker Punch

    Mosq (Latios) (M) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Draco Meteor
    - Surf
    - Thunder
    - Trick

    Y (Jirachi) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Serene Grace
    EVs: 252 HP / 56 Def / 200 SDef
    Sassy Nature
    - Thunder
    - U-turn
    - Iron Head
    - Stealth Rock

    Lbp2 (Feraligatr) @ Mystic Water
    Trait: Torrent
    EVs: 56 HP / 252 Atk / 200 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    IVs: 30 Atk / 30 Def
    - Swords Dance
    - Aqua Jet
    - Superpower
    - Waterfall

    Just saying, the nicknames are some of my friend on Po lol

    So yeah, thats it. Its fun to use and its quite good, it has his weaknesses such as Jellicent sometimes, or well builded Drago Spam with Garchomp+ Salamence+Dnite ect, but its almost impossible to build a perfect team... Anyway, rate, hate, steal, whatever you want. thanks for reading :3
  2. Neliel

    Neliel Sacred Sword

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2012
    Messages:
    565
    Reserved for threath list.
  3. MrChar

    MrChar

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2011
    Messages:
    49
    good team, even if I knew it XDXD

    i think that you should use crunch to alleviate your weakness to jellicent
  4. EnterRAYZORS

    EnterRAYZORS

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2012
    Messages:
    97
    Firstly I love this team.
    secondly I have been using a team with a Ferraligatr (that im contenplating RMTing) and I know exactly what your talking about. he is a god.
    Im presuming Superpower is for Ferrothorn? And wall breaking?
    Well your Breloom and Toxicroak make light work of Ferro, and other steels. So I wouldnt say running Superpower is necesary in the late game? I might be wrong there.
    Id try Crunch > Superpower. Just as Jellicent completely (COMPLETELY) walls this guy.
    Crunch hits Jellicent aswell as hitting Dragons who resist your water attacks (even though youve proved he breaks through that) for neutral damage. This means that really only Ferro walls you and as i stated earlier, your team has numerous ways of dealing with it.

    Hmmmm your team is solid hahaa

    I dont like your Jirachi.. And I dont really know why. I think its the moveset. Your running thunder, with no recovery. (outside of leftovers) Jirachi is buff but thunder isnt 100% paralysis. And i realise its 100% accuracy but with no investment, it wont hit Jellicent (as you said it does) very hard, especially the SpDef versions. And Jelli can wisp your Rachi and render it rather useless, aswell as shorten its life more. I would run Thunder Wave > Thunder. The 100% paralysis is much nicer as it means you can always lower there speed. This doesnt counter Jellicent, it just stops Jellicent from being able to counter him as much.

    Im presumin Breloom is best counter to Jelli?

    Id be tempted to run SpDef Rotom > Jirachi as a test.
    This loses you the great steel typing for a slightly worse water typing however you still get T Wave. STAB rain boosted Hydropumps aswell as Volt Switches/ Thunderbolts to keep Jellis away.

    The Sets
    Rotom- W @ Chesto Berry/ Leftovers
    Calm
    252 Hp/ 116 Spe/ Rest in SpDef
    Hydro Pump
    Volt Switch/ Thunderbolt
    ThunderWave/ will o Wisp
    Rest/ Pain Split

    Movesets
    Crunch > SuperPower

    ThunderWave > Thunder

    All suggestions, gl with team and a luvdisc.
  5. Neliel

    Neliel Sacred Sword

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2012
    Messages:
    565
    Hi! thanks for your suggestion first. I agree with you that Crunch should be at least tried because of jellicent, however, i dont think that Rotom-w can replace Jirachi here. Rotom-w doesnt have Stealth rock and cannot switch in reliably on Latios. As for Thunder, its extremely usefull to hit Skarmory, and even if its not doing much to jellicent (maybe a 3ko) i can wait till it gets fullpara so i can ko it.
  6. Electrolyte

    Electrolyte Spring break, motherfucker
    is an official Team Rateris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Battle Server Moderator
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  7. Yeezy D

    Yeezy D

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2012
    Messages:
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    Black Sludge over Leftovers on Toxicroak, purely because they give the same amount of health back every turn, but if Toxicroak gets Tricked, by I don't know, Jirachi/Rotom-W/H, they take damage instead of gaining it. Possibly the tiniest improvement I have ever posted.
  8. Gimmick

    Gimmick Electric potential

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2011
    Messages:
    167
    Hey Nel!

    I am a proud endorser of Feraligatr, so it's only natural that I rate this team :] First off, I'd like to congratulate you on your success! This team is really awesome and uses 2 very underrated rain sweepers of Toxicroak and Feraligatr. With that said, I'd actually like to suggest a change in both of those Pokes. With the new metagame bringing some of the strongest, fastest, and versatile Pokemon, stronger priority is always appreciated. Since you're already running so much Speed on Toxicroak, I'm a bit confused as to why you're using SubBU with Leftovers. I feel like your team would definitely benefit a ton more if you changed Toxicroak to a Swords Dance + Life Orb set. I personally think that this set is much more threatening in BW2 since one cannot reliably switch into and kill with many supposed "checks" (like Tornadus-T; it doesn't really mind a +1 non-STAB non-Adamant Leftovers Sucker Punch from your current Toxicroak). Since your team is somewhat centered around priority sweepers, it would definitely benefit you to add some more power to Toxicroak's Sucker Punch (since it's not STAB). Drain Punch is now legal with Swords Dance, so with Dry Skin and Drain Punch's healing abilities, Life Orb recoil will be absolutely no problem. This also frees up a spot over Substitute, allowing you to add a coverage move of your choice, Ice Punch being the best. You can now OHKO Dragonite, Gliscor, and Landorus on the switch, which is pretty darn awesome considering those are the things that like to wall BU Toxicroak. And with the extra power from SD/Life Orb, you can more easily run a Jolly nature without noticing a considerable drop in power. I know you're currently running Jolly, but I'd max out your Speed since it's able to outspeed Adamant Haxorus and (speed tie with) Modest Hydreigon, two very awkward speed tiers, but ones that can easily dispose of Toxicroak's sweep. You also outspeed most Kyurem (is Timid Kyurem even used?) Adamant Kyurem-B, and Adamant 252 Gliscor (well, it's not used anymore because of the Sand Veil ban, but someone could be using an offensive Toxic Heal one I suppose). In case I didn't mention this before, LO Sucker Punch at +2 is just so threatening and full of mind-games that it's super difficult to stop, especially for the more offensive teams, especially rain and sand. Here's the set:
    Toxicroak (open)

    [​IMG] (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Dry Skin
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Swords Dance
    - Drain Punch
    - Sucker Punch
    - Ice Punch


    Alright, so. Feraligatr. You really aren't outspeeding many threats to Feraligatr even with all that investment. 242 is somewhat weird considering the the Gliscor/SDef Celebi/SDef Jirachi/Tentacruel (common & invested slightly) speed tier is at 245. 240 outspeeds the Adamant Breloom speed tier. However, I'm not going to suggest more speed like Toxicroak, but way less. Like, way less. 176 EVs less. 24 Speed EVs allows Feraligatr to outspeed SDef Heatran, 4 Spe Dragonite, Skarmory, Politoed, most CB Scizor, 84 EV Breloom (SubPunch, Bulk Up, Bulky Technician), and more. It's enough, basically. This allows you to run 232 HP EVs, meaning you can tank just SO many hits and get up a Swords Dance so much easier. For example, Rotom-W's Modest Volt Switch (252 SpAtk Rotom-W (+SpAtk) Volt Switch vs 232 HP/0 SpDef Feraligatr: 69.11% - 81.3% (2 hits to KO)) puts you in Torrent range from Max HP, allowing you to set up a SD and demolish your foe (lol). It can even take 2 Leftovers Keldeo Secret Swords, SD twice, and activate Torrent: 252 SpAtk Keldeo Secret Sword vs 232 HP/0 Def Feraligatr: 37.67% - 44.72% (3 hits to KO). Specs Tornadus? Ha. I laugh in the face of Specs Tornadus. Ha ha ha. 252 SpAtk Choice Specs Tornadus-T Hurricane vs 232 HP/0 SpDef Feraligatr: 82.93% - 97.56% (2 hits to KO). I apologize for being corny and stupid. Anyway, you get the point. I'm also going to have to disagree with Electrolyte here; Mystic Water is the perfect item for SD Feraligatr since it's mainly going to be using Aqua Jet, and if you manage to get Torrent activated with Life Orb, you'll only have a few hits. Without Life Orb recoil, Feraligatr can sit comfortably in Torrent range after some of those above hits and continue to dish out powerful Aqua Jets without worrying about conserving HP for the more important threats. Here's what the new set should look like:
    Feraligatr (open)

    [​IMG] (F) @ Mystic Water
    Trait: Torrent
    EVs: 232 HP / 252 Atk / 24 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Swords Dance
    - Aqua Jet
    - Waterfall
    - Superpower



    Annnnnnd lastly, Latios. Although Thunder is a tempting choice because of its 100% accuracy in rain, Psyshock definitely has more benefits. It's much more reliable and provides great revenge killing coverage. SubSalac Terrakion is gaining much more popularity, and being able to OHKO it in sand is a definite plus. Thunder really only manages to revenge kill Gyarados, when Draco Meteor OHKOs 50% of the time after Stealth Rock. Psyshock hits so many more Pokemon (more reliably) and can even be used as a late game sweeping move since it doesn't have any negative effects (like Draco Meteor). It helps a ton against Breloom as well, and can pick off weakened Chanseys/Blisseys. Anyway, like I said, this team is awesome, and I hope to have improved it! Good luck! :]


    Summary of Changes

    • [​IMG]
      • Life Orb set over Substitute Bulk Up set
      • Max Speed + Jolly
      • Life Orb
      • Ice Punch over Substitute
      • Swords Dance over Bulk Up
    • [​IMG]
      • 232 HP / 252 Atk / 24 Spd over your current spread
    • [​IMG]
      • Psyshock over Thunder
  9. Neliel

    Neliel Sacred Sword

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2012
    Messages:
    565
    Hi gimmick! thanks for the rate. I have to admit that i was not sure about the toxicroak set, in fact i have used many variants, like Sub punch or the Life orb Sword dance set. The main problem is that in opinion toxicroak really hates the life orb recoil, i know it still have dry skin, but lets say that i can switch in more reliably on something like Terrakion or Genesect, which can be crucial. Since i wanted to use leftovers, i switched on a "bulky" set with bulk up, also because i really hates when garchomp or other Grounded pokemon can revenge kill me, so i put the substitute. So my question is, can a Sword dance set with leftovers be used? am i missing any important ko? So many times i saw people trying to stall me summoing their own weather, and leftovers instead of life orb can be crucial. For the evs, well i did that spread just for mamoswine but i think that max speed will work.
    Now, feraligatr, mmm
    To be honest, some of my friend already suggested me something like your spread, but i dont like it, and i will explane why. First of all, im not sure if the base 100 are used with 245 speed or not, whatever, in this case i have max the speed, not to lower it, so that i can waterfall in their face and ko them. Feraligatr with only 200 in speed will always lose to rotom-w for example, or to Magnezone, even offensive scizor can do a lot of damage with orbed bug bite since it can take an aqua jet. I've never felt the need to have more bulk on fera honestly, and the bonus to outspeed a lot of slow stuff is great. As for latios, ill try psyshock, thunder was here for no reason, lol
  10. Gimmick

    Gimmick Electric potential

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2011
    Messages:
    167
    Well, if you want to be able to switch into Genesect or Terrakion, I'd definitely go with way more HP investment:

    Genesect + Terrakion hitting your current Toxicroak (open)

    252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs 36 HP/0 Def Toxicroak: 65.51% - 77.22% (2 hits to KO)

    252 SpAtk Genesect Ice Beam vs 36 HP/0 SpDef Toxicroak: 43.99% - 51.9% (3 hits to KO)

    252 +1 SpAtk Genesect Ice Beam vs 36 HP/0 SpDef Toxicroak: 66.14% - 77.85% (2 hits to KO)


    You really can't switch into any of these things with 36 HP, but if you go with 244 HP and 12 Def EVs, it looks a bit more like this:

    Genesect and Terrakion hitting Bulky Toxicroak (open)

    252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs 244 HP/12 Def Toxicroak: 55.43% - 65.22% (2 hits to KO)

    252 SpAtk Genesect Ice Beam vs 244 HP/0 SpDef Toxicroak: 37.77% - 44.57% (3 hits to KO)

    252 +1 SpAtk Genesect Ice Beam vs 244 HP/0 SpDef Toxicroak: 56.79% - 66.85% (2 hits to KO)


    With Dry Skin and leftovers, you just barely escape a 2HKO by +1 Genesect and Band Terrakion. Honestly, (to me), it seems like a bit of a waste of a set that can be extremely powerful and threatening to the current metagame. I wouldn't recommend a bulky set like this also because it fails to outspeed so many powerful threats now, such as Mamoswine, Breloom, or even some Ninetales.

    Assuming you do choose the speedy set, here's a reason to go with Life Orb + Sucker Punch. WITH LEFTOVERS:

    Your Toxicroak hitting BW2 threats (open)

    252 +1 Atk Toxicroak Sucker Punch vs 0 HP/0 Def Tornadus-T: 45.48% - 53.85% (2-3 hits to KO) (ASSUMING YOU BULK UP ON THE SWITCH)

    252 Atk Toxicroak Drain Punch vs 4 HP/0 Def Breloom: 48.47% - 57.63% (2-3 hits to KO)

    252 Atk Toxicroak Drain Punch vs 0 HP/0 Def Mamoswine: 70.64% - 83.93% (2 hits to KO)

    252 +1 Atk Toxicroak Drain Punch vs 4 HP/0 Def Keldeo: 53.7% - 63.27% (2 hits to KO) (ASSUMING YOU BULK UP)


    You miss out on SO many KOs. Here are some calcs with the set I suggested:

    Life Orb Toxicroak hitting BW2 threats (open)

    252 +2 Atk Life Orb Toxicroak Sucker Punch vs 0 HP/0 Def Tornadus-T: 79.26% - 93.31% (Guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock) (ASSUMING YOU SWORDS DANCE ON THE SWITCH)

    252 Atk Life Orb Toxicroak Ice Punch vs 4 HP/0 Def Breloom: 84.73% - 100% (6.25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock)

    252 Atk Life Orb Toxicroak Drain Punch vs 0 HP/0 Def Mamoswine: 92.24% - 108.86% (50% chance to OHKO) (100% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock)

    252 +2 Atk Life Orb Toxicroak Drain Punch vs 4 HP/0 Def Keldeo: 93.52% - 109.57% (62.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock) (ASSUMING YOU SWORD DANCE)


    The LO SD set is much more fit for BW2 (in my opinion), being able to OHKO a lot of the new threats.

    With a more powerful Sucker Punch, you don't have to worry about things coming in and revenge killing you as long as you have some prior weakening on them:

    LO Toxicroak hitting specified revenge killers (open)

    252 +2 Atk Life Orb Toxicroak Sucker Punch vs 4 HP/0 Def Garchomp: 57.26% - 67.32% (2 hits to KO)

    252 +2 Atk Life Orb Toxicroak Sucker Punch vs 0 HP/0 Def Landorus: 67.4% - 79.31% (2 hits to KO)


    Of course, everything is up to opinion; but without Spikes support, yes, you do miss out on quite a few KOs with Leftovers over Life Orb.

    Well, it depends on the set whether base 100 speed Pokemon run 245 Speed. For example, SDef Jirachi runs about that much while most SubCM run 328. 245 is generally the benchmark for a lot of Pokemon to outspeed former Gliscors or Tentacruels, so it's not a definite speed. But I'm fairly sure not many people run 241 Speed. I know a lot run 240 to outspeed Adamant Breloom. Most offensive Rotom-W outspeed your current spread anyway, so you really outspeed only the defensive variants, which can take a +2 Waterfall and retaliate with a Volt Switch or Will-O-Wisp:

    252 +2 Atk Mystic Water Feraligatr (+Atk) Waterfall in Rain vs 252 HP/0 Def Rotom-W: 68.75% - 80.92% (2 hits to KO)

    The set I suggested outspeeds most Choice Specs Magnezone, and can take modest Scarf Magnezone Volt Switches to activate Torrent:

    252 SpAtk Magnezone (+SpAtk) Volt Switch vs 232 HP/0 SpDef Feraligatr: 79.67% - 94.31% (2 hits to KO)

    With the bulk, Feraligatr laughs off LO Adamant Scizor's Bug Bite and can 2HKO with Waterfall + Aqua Jet (or sometimes OHKO with Waterfall after Stealth Rock):

    252 Atk Life Orb Technician Scizor (+Atk) Bug Bite vs 232 HP/0 Def Feraligatr: 57.18% - 67.48% (2 hits to KO)

    Of course, these are all assuming Feraligatr has enough HP to take these hits. In summary, the set you're currently using gives more utility to Waterfall while the one I suggested is centered around Aqua Jet.

    HOWEVER! If you do choose to go with a faster Gatr, definitely run 212 Spe EVs to outspeed the 245 bechmark, where offensive Rotom-W sits.
  11. Neliel

    Neliel Sacred Sword

    Joined:
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    You are right i cant ko Rotom-w, but at least i can weaken it more, since aqua jet does half damage. Also, you are assuming that a rotom-w can stay alive against this team, i mean it has to switch-in on politoed surf for example, which is enough to ko with waterfall and the prior damage (but thats too theorymon anyway)
    Specs magnezone is my experience is always Timid with max speed otherwise Orb Scizor can ko it with superpower, anyway I understand why u suggested me to run max hp, and as you said, i prefer to do waterfall on these slow things to help my other sweeper to sweep easily.
    well, choice band terrakion is not that common anymore, i was talking about the scarf set mainly, i know that cb kion can laugh at toxicroak. Anyway, maybe i was not clear, but i meant a set with Sword dance and Leftovers, not a Bulk up + Leftvoers. However, i saw the damage against Tornadus, ko after stealth rock only with the life orb, ok lol Life orb is better.
  12. zzazzdsa

    zzazzdsa

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    Hello Nel; nice team you got here.

    I pretty much agree with Gimmick on like.... everything he said. Feraligatr gets a massively powerful Aqua Jet, making most of the speed you are running redundant. I really would swap to a 24 EV variant; Feraligatr is actually decently bulky and really appreciates getting into Torrent range. You could boost that speed to hit 210 if you really really want to fuck over sdeftoms, though. Toxicroak should also really be running LO SD in this meta, as even though its not as effective against a few specific threats, it is FAR more useful to have in terms of wrecking defensive walls (brings skarm into fera's waterfall kill range after rocks and +2? yes please). You do miss a bit of bulk, but the offensive nature of your team should allow you to sac something and bring in 'loom or gatr to revenge. However, I do have some other changes for you to consider.

    First and foremost, Breloom should ABSOFUCKINGLUTELY NOT be using focus punch without sub. Low sweep is easily better, as 2 hits from it are just as strong as focus punch, while you severely lower their speed and avoid the need to predict, all at the cost of an extra round of LO recoil and an extra turn, and to be honest, the only thing that you would ever want the extra turn for is dnite, as you can outspeed and spore most everything else. If you do decide to use low sweep, also switch to a Jolly nature on Breloom; this enables you to Spore Tornadus-t after a Low sweep. Finally, you really should be using Crunch over Superpower on Feraligatr; it's no fun to have your sweep cut short by failing to damage the jellyghost. The only thing Superpower hits is Ferrothorn, and your fighting types can set up all day long on it.

    That's my rate, hope I helped!
  13. Neliel

    Neliel Sacred Sword

    Joined:
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    Hi, thanks for the rate. Ill definitely try max hp feraligatr since you all suggest me to use it. As for low sweep i dont know, focus punch hit extremely harder, but ill try it. Crunch over Superpower makes sense. Thank you :)
  14. PentaWorst

    PentaWorst

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    Ehy neliel, nice team!

    I think that jellicent is a problem so put crunch on feraligatr and max speed is better because it can outspeed slow things like tentacurel, celebi, Jirachi, and gliscor.
  15. ShootingStarmie

    ShootingStarmie
    is an official Team Rateris a Forum Moderatoris a Tiering Contributor
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    Hey man, awesome team and congrats on your peak. I love the fact you're using Gator :) Anyway, onto the rate. The team seems solid, but I do see quite a massive weakness to Celebi (SpDef set). It can cripple all of your Polemon, and the worst you can do to it is hit it with a weak U-turn from Jirachi. I feel like Toxicroak is the most replaceable member, as I feel its quite reduntant to have two Fighting types. I think you should replace Toxicroak with Genesect so you can tell with Celebi. I hope what I said what useful. Cool team. Luvdisc'd

    EDIT

    Okay so I started to you this team, but like I said I changed Genesect > Toxicroak. And I managed to get to 2# on the ladder. Awesome team man!
  16. Red3mpti0n

    Red3mpti0n

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2012
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    Hey there,

    It's good to see Gatr back in OU and this team looks a lot like mine did when I tried him out. Just a few things:

    Idk about Encore on ScarfToed. Locking an opponent into an attacking move and bringing in a resist can be fine, but there's nothing stopping them from switching (or double-switching) into something else. And if you lock them into a non-attacking move like Spikes or Toxic, there's nothing stopping them from staying in and laying more hazards or spreading status (cuz you have to switch out), especially if they already know you're scarfed. Idk, it creates unnecessary switches and double switches that you can't afford to do w/o a spinner. If your main goal is to get the opponent's Pokemon out of play, Perish Song already accomplishes that and is certainly more practical on a Scarf set since you have to switch out eventually. Focus Blast/HP Grass > Encore would be more beneficial.

    Definitely Low Sweep > Focus Punch on Breloom. Not because "it's dumb w/o sub" or any other lame excuse, but because of Low Sweep's Speed drops. Low Sweep hits things on the switch like Focus Punch does, but the Speed drop allows Breloom to get two hits: one on the switch-in and the other on the following turn, as you now outspeed. In this case, two attacks with a 90 base power move (that's with Technician) outdamage one attack with a 150 base power move.

    For Rachi, a spread of 240/40/228 with a Calm nature makes CB Haxorus' Outrage a meager 3HKO (for now, it's strongest Outrage in the tier and a good benchmark as far as standing up to Dragon spam), while you paraflinch it to death.

    My Gatr set of choice is LO with SD/Aqua Jet/Superpower/Crunch. Not much in OU can take that Aqua Jet; the only bulky foes that can are Gastro, Reuniclus and Jellicent and they're all taken down with the appropriate coverage move. You outspeed all of them naturally so Max HP is the better option to take opposing priority better. The team handles most of its other natural checks anyway. You can also find a LO number if you wish, allowing Gatr to live one more recoil than normal.
  17. Psycho Cut

    Psycho Cut

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2011
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    Wow, this is a great team and it's always nice to see Feraligatr getting some use!

    Anyway, I have a small suggestion, since all of the other minor tweaks this team could need have been covered by other posters. Basically, I suggest HP Grass > Encore on Politoed. As others have talked about - in sufficient detail - encore is a bit useless on your Politoed set, and HP Grass would allow you to dent Jellicent (which you've said is a problem for the team) and Gastrodon, some versions of which I can also see Feraligatr and Toxicroak having trouble with. It's true that HP Grass may not even do that much to Jellicent (too lazy for 5th gen calcs), but it'll certainly do some damage and that, coupled with Stealth Rocks and prior damage may be enough to take it out, or, at the very least, force it to Recover at a point you can take advantage of. All things considered, Jellicent is a common switch-in to Politoed, so I reckon you can certainly make the most of it.

    Other than that, great job and congratulations on the peak!

    (luvdisc'd)
  18. Jirachee

    Jirachee Congratulations Canada for finishing the tunnel to China!
    is a Tutoris an official Team Rateris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributor Alumnus
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    Congratulations for winning this week's edition of RMT of the Week!

    People who rate this team or have already rated it will be counted in the reward system of RMT of the Week.

    (bumping this because of rmt of the week)
  19. Superpowerdude

    Superpowerdude "The Phone-Post King"
    is an official Team Rateris a Smogon Media Contributor
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    Ok First of all congrats on getting the rmt of the week and very nice team! I nominated this team because i really like the use of Feraligatr in OU and this team shows that you can use an underated threat while still maintaining a solid team so good work!

    Looking at your team however there are still a few problems with it. You mentioned Jellicent can be quite annoying for your team to face. Ones that carry Will-o-Wisp look extremely annoying. Jellicent can get a free switch in from either Politoed and Feraligatr and wall them both completely. From there he can spread Toxic that will cripple Politoed and Feraligatr as well as Latios and Breloom switch ins. Or the much more dangerous Will-o-Wisp that will cripple Latios and severly cripple Breloom, but it can also annoy Jirachi and Toxicroak.

    I also noticed some slight redundancy with your team using two Choice Scarf pokemon. Latios provides your team with a great Choice Scarf user with its high base 130 SpA and 115 Spe, because of this Politoeds role as a revenge killer isn't really needed especially seeing as Politoed has less SpA and Spe, and you are only running two attacking moves (Surf, Ice Beam). I think a Chestorest Politoed>Choice Scarf Politoed would be a very beneficial change. Not only does this get rid of one of your Choice Scarf pokemon, but Politoed can also cripple Jellicent switch ins with Toxic. This is a huge asset to your team because Jellicent is quite annoying for your team to handle. With a Chesto Berry and Rest letting Politoed be a one time status abosrber he can also switch into Jellicent quite easily with out worrying about status moves. Another good thing about this set is it gives you a much easier time winning the weather war as opposed to your other set. With no Rapid Spin user on your team when ever Politoed switches in to revenge kill a pokemon or bring the weather up it keeps getting damaged making it harder to win the weather war. However with the Chesto Rest set your Politoed has an easier time winning the weather war because it can threaten rival weather inducers more with Toxic and can also heal itself once off with Rest. This is also huge for your team seeing as your team is one of those rain teams without a Dugtrio to help win the weather war.

    Aside from that there isn't really to much to say about the team. However you could try Fighting Gem>Life Orb on Breloom. I don't have any damage calcs but Fighting Gem will let Breloom hit much harder once off with Focus Punch or Mach Punch. Without the nasty reciol that Life Orb brings to the table. This can help preserve Brelooms longetivity which is very important especially seeing as you are using Focus Punch without the safety of Substitute.

    Good luck with the team i hope i helped!

    Sets
    Show Hide
    Show Hide

    [​IMG]
    Politoed @ Chesto Berry | Drizzle
    Bold | 252 Hp / 4 SpA / 252 Def
    Scald | Toxic | Rest | Ice Beam

    Tl;dr
    Show Hide
    Show Hide


    Politoed
    .Chesto Rest Set--->Choice Scarf Set

    Breloom
    Fighting Gem--->Life Orb[Oppitional]



    ~Superpowerdude
  20. Neliel

    Neliel Sacred Sword

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    Hey thanks for your rate! nice suggestions as always!
    Yeah you got the point, indeed i have to say that your chesto rest politoed would fix my weakness to sunny team mostly since i actually hate to switch-in on ninetales due to Will-o-wisp, and with that set i can easily switch on it dont care about status. It can also help me toxicstalling Jellicent, while its true that i dont have that much to stall out Jellicent other than Politoed, it can not Stop my Toxicroak if its toxiced because i can Sub and wait until it switches out. Maybe i should increase the speed of that politoed, i run Jellicent with more speed than standard politoed so i can taunt it, maybe someone else had the same idea. The only "bad" thing about this set is this team its not that fast at all, feraligatr, breloom, Jirachi, Toxicroak all fails to outspeed base 100's pokemon. In fact while its true that Scarf politoed can not revenge kill any sweeper other than dragonite, it is good to outspeed non-scarfed pokemon in a pinch, Tornadus-t or garchomp comes to mind for example. Encore was also good to stop some sweeper as well as perish song which is the best way to handle baton pass team, however chesto rest toed is truely something that im going to try. As for Fighing gem on breloom, i already tried it and sometimes i needed more power with bullet seed, lets say against tentacruel for example, and the recoil is not problematic at all. Thanks :)
  21. Eranu

    Eranu

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    Hey, congratulations on winning the RMT of the week.
    First of all, I'd suggest Crunch > Superpower. Your team has a way harder time of dealing with Jellicent then it does dealing with Ferrothorn/Gastrodon. Running Crunch allows you to ohko Jellicent at +2 as well as koing Tentacruel from 76% and below, which is a mon that can stop your sweep as well. Next up, Amoongus walls you pretty hard. It can come in on 5/6 members of your team and proceed to Spore something. Nothing can really ko it in return. Running Psyshock > Surf on Latios can help against this problem. Psyshock can ohko standard Amoongus after Stealth Rock damage, so as long as you Spore fodder something else, you can reliable deal with it. I feel you need Thunder more than surf since if you'd lose Thunder Gyarados can become a big problem. Using two scarf Surfers feels a bit redundant too. You'll just have to be a little more careful of Tyranitar now. Now, if you decide you still want Superpower on Feraligatr, you can also change Breloom's set to SubFocusPunch with Poison Heal. This way, Jellicent/Ferrothorn/Gastrodon can do nothing to it, while it can't get burned since it is already poisoned. Having sub allows you to use Focus Punch more often as well. You already have two priority users which can take compensate for the loss of Mach Punch. You can pretty much run the same evs on the new Breloom set so Focus Punch won't lose too many power by losing Life Orb. This is a really good team and I had trouble finding any weakness. Hope I helped. Good luck!

    ~Sets:

    Show Hide

    Sladan (Breloom) (F) @ Toxic Orb
    Trait: Poison Heal
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Spore
    - Focus Punch
    - Seed Bomb
    - Substitute
  22. ganj4lF

    ganj4lF Nobody is safe from the power of science!
    is a Team Rater Alumnus

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    Hey, nice team you got there. I really don't have many suggestions; although I don't really like Jirachi without Wish, I can see why you'd want to run such a set, so I don't want to propose a change I know you've already evaluated and discarded. However, having absolutely no recovery and status vulnerability on your weather inducer can hurt somewhat, and Superpowerdude's suggestion helps a lot for that. If you don't want to go to that route, there's another way a little more creative and that won't alter a lot your team: use a Scarf Latias over Latios. While this may seem odd to you, Latias can revenge quite well too, even with 20 SpA less than its brother, and has access to superior Special bulk, and most importantly, Healing Wish. This allows you to tank many Water attacks Latios can have troubles switching in, while being useful even if worn down. Latias will outspeed almost everything, and even at low HP can sacrifice itself to bring your Politoed full and healed by status. This can help immensely while trying to win a weather war, especially since you don't carry spinners, thus it's quite easy to wear down your inducer. For the rest, it acts pretty much as Scarf Latios would do, so there's not anything else to describe here.

    Latias (open)

    [​IMG]

    Latias @ Choice Scarf | Levitate
    Timid | 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    - Draco Meteor
    - Surf
    - Psyshock / Thunder
    - Healing Wish


    Other than that, great team, and good luck playing it!
  23. dragonuser

    dragonuser Today, tomorrow, and always with a frozen heart
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    Hey there,

    This is a pretty cool team and I'm glad to see that Feraligatr is finally getting more recognition. This team looks pretty solid, but like other users have noted Jellicent looks troubling. I would support Superpowerdude's suggestion of ChestoResto Politoed, but with a slightly different EV spread/moveset. One of ChestoResto Politoed's greatest boons is its ability to feign a choiced item. Once you reveal Scald your cover is often blown, and it becomes much harder to surprise the opponent. By running a more offensive set you can feign a Choiced item better, and can hit much harder as well. An offensive team like this would really appreciate that extra power. Anyways this is a really cool team and GL!

    set (open)

    [​IMG]
    Politoed (F) @ Chesto Berry
    Trait: Drizzle
    EVs: 160 HP / 252 SAtk / 96 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Hydro Pump
    - Toxic
    - Ice Beam
    - Rest
  24. Gary2346

    Gary2346 A filthy casual
    is a Contributor Alumnus

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    Hey man this team is so good! I tested it out for a few battles, and had no problem winning them all, and I'm rusty when it comes to weather teams! Feraligator is sooo underestimated, and I honestly can't wait to see if it ends up coming to OU once Sheer Force is released.

    I have to admit I stole your Breloom set to try out on my team, and it's amazing! Instead of Life Orb however, I use a Fighting Gem to fire off boosted Mach Punches to take out Jirachi from full HP or use it to demolish anything with Focus Punch. Although it's a one time use, it's worth it because it always nets you a kill. Try it out sometimes, it forgoes constant power for a surprise kill and longevity.
  25. Neliel

    Neliel Sacred Sword

    Joined:
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    @Eranu: the fact is that while its true that with crunch i can defeat jellicent easier, then ferrothorn can stop Politoed, Latios, Jirachi, and feraligatr, i think that 4 pokemon are really too much considering how common ferrothorn is. Surf on latias is a really usefull move, it saved my ass so many times, however i tried psyshock instead of thunder as gimmick already suggested me. I think that sub focus punch breloom is not the best set here: while its true that in this way rotom and jellicent can not wow me, i will lose the surprise effect of focus punch tech loom, as well as the life orb power up and the priority.

    @ganjalf
    scarf latias with healing wish is something that i've never thought before. While i actually think that scarflatios is superior (u can see my opinions on a topic called "latias the underrated eon" or something like that) i understand your point. Sometimes i lost to sun stall teams just because i had nothing to switch into ninetales w-o-w and with stealth rock support only my politoed couldnt switch-in often, this will really help me in some desperate situation like that. I dont know if the lack of trick does matter at all, honestly i would run it over thunder.

    @dragonuser
    Im not a fan of hydro miss honestly, i would use surf instead of hpump. However i will test it out and see which set is the best. I currently only tried the defensive set and it worked fine.

    @gary2346
    i already tried fighting gem but there was some reason that i have actually forgot which forced me to use life orb to boost bullet seed. Im glad you liked that set :x
    thank for every body guys, i really appreciated all your rates!

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