1. New to the forums? Check out our Mentorship Program!
    Our mentors will answer your questions and help you become a part of the community!
  2. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.

The Damage Over Time effect: UU Stalling?

Discussion in 'BW Other Teams' started by CoolStoryBrobat, Jan 1, 2013.

  1. CoolStoryBrobat

    CoolStoryBrobat The hero Smogon needs, but not the one it deserves
    is a Community Contributoris a Battle Server Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2012
    Messages:
    860
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]


    Introduction:

    Okay, basically I was testing one of my UU Teams in Showdown, which was sort of a balanced/semi-stall team with a bit of offensive edge to it. I liked the idea so much that I figured I could troll with it (perhaps?) if I decided to try going a bit more full-tilt stall. And to some extent, it HAS worked, but I'd really like some tips and improvements for this team here. In the long run I noticed this team has a good amount of painful shortcomings that I'm gonna list below in the thread. I would really like some advice on how to make this team improve at doing what it does more effectively. The biggest issue I've figured with this team is it's effectively a 6-Pokemon defensive core. By that, I mean even though it's stall-oriented, based around the idea of weakening opponents while healing itself, if a single one of my Pokemon faints, then I'm severely hindered at stopping the opponent in one way or another if they have a certain Pokemon that's still standing, and it has the potential to turn into an uphill battle very quickly.



    A Closer Look:
    [​IMG]

    SayBullEye (Sableye) (M) @ Sticky Barb
    Trait: Prankster
    EVs: 252 SDef / 252 HP / 4 Spd
    Calm Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Recover
    - Taunt
    - Trick


    • On a Stall team, why NOT use Sableye? Prankster gives you so many ways to annoy and frustrate your opponent, and this here is no exception. The given EVs are to maximize bulk on the special side, compensating for physical by spamming prankster Will-O-Wisp to cripple physical attackers whose names aren't Darmanitan, Arcanine, and Victini. Priority Taunt is even more important to help me overcome minor annoying foes, and with the EVs invested in Speed (Lol, just one point) I should be able to outspeed any uninvested opposing Sableye, which I can then nail with my own Taunt. Trick is where the annoyance really comes in, however it's REALLY a two-edged sword with Sticky Barb. From what I've experienced, if I don't Trick on the first turn, the damage from the Sticky Barb is a dead giveaway that I'm going to be using Trick at some point, which makes players wary. Not only that, but if I find myself unable to afford using Trick right away (Against a choiced Pokemon, for instance), I'm literally hurting myself while the opponent can either kill me or threaten me enough to switch.

    • I've been thinking of possibly trying Cofagrigus as a Ghost-type for this team, or simply not using Trick + Sticky Barb, but I'm not entirely sure yet. I'd really like some suggestions for this guy especially, as he's kind of the weakest link/yet the best potential in this team. He more often dies somewhere early/mid-game, which hurts the rest of the team as stated above. And Sableye REALLY needs to stay alive due to his Taunt, which keeps foes with their own Taunt/Substitute/RestTalk from getting the edge on me. It's also my best bet against opposing teams with their own Clerics, primarily Umbreon. Crobat's another Pokemon I've been thinking of running since it has a speedy Taunt, but I'm still not totally sure if it can do everything else as effectively.


    [​IMG]


    Hombreon (Umbreon) (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Synchronize
    EVs: 200 SDef / 252 HP / 56 Def
    Calm Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Toxic
    - Heal Bell
    - Wish
    - Protect



    • I love this thing. SO MUCH. Umbreon is practically mandatory on a UU Stall team, no questions asked. The first thing you may notice is I'm lacking an attacking move, such as Payback or Foul Play. I know it makes me complete Taunt bait, but I haven't had as much success running an attack on it, personally. I used to have Payback in Toxic's slot, and it's done me some justice in some situations, but in others, I was wishing I had a move such as Toxic to help wear the opponent down. Pound for pound, Toxic's given me much more success, especially alongside Protect and Wish. The EVs are a little bit funny, but Umbreon's got a ton of Special Defense on its own, and to maintain a little balance I put some EVs into its physical Defense. It's probably not recommended, but it's been doing the job for me so far.

    • However, like I said, it IS Taunt bait. Although so is every other Umbreon, if you really think about it. Letting Umbreon faint anytime often just increases my team's chances for complete failure, as with the Cleric down, the team can't cure itself of status, nor can I heal its teammates by passing Wish to it on a switch.


    [​IMG]


    FaceHugger (Gligar) (M) @ Eviolite
    Trait: Immunity
    EVs: 252 Def / 252 HP / 4 Atk
    Impish Nature
    - Earthquake
    - Toxic
    - Roost
    - Stealth Rock



    • This team severely needed a Stealth Rocker, and Gligar was my first and best bet right from the jump. Its physical defense with Eviolite is just untouchable, and it's really the only thing on my team that saves me from Heracross (especially the rare-but-infrequent Guts Heracross which is an even bigger threat to this team), and helps spread status with Toxic, as well as keep itself alive with Roost. Earthquake's mainly for being usable STAB to keep from being Taunt fodder.

    • As said before, Gligar is solidly my best bet against Heracross, and if it's gone for whatever reason, the team's bound to get swept, if not end up taking a massive blow from Heracross.


    [​IMG]


    The Gun Show! (Blastoise) (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Torrent
    EVs: 252 Def / 252 HP / 4 SAtk
    Bold Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Scald
    - Rapid Spin
    - Toxic
    - Roar



    • A spinner is definitely a requirement for this team, as there's nothing on this team that resists Stealth Rock damage, and only Gligar is immune to Spikes. So not having a Spinner for this setup is risking a lot of trouble, given the amount of switches I make using this team. Scald is a staple, needed for STAB, and more importantly, inflicting the oh-so vital Burns on foes. Toxic's a bit questionable on the same set as Scald, but in all honesty, it's worked fine for me. There's times where I'd be better off straight-up poisoning the foe badly rather than letting it just deal with a burn (Read: Special attackers, especially things like Porygon2), and Scald still acts as an attack, so it's really not a problem running both on the same set. Also, Scald can get the burn on occasional Steel-types, such as Bronzong, where Toxic will be utterly useless. Roar helps for PHazing purposes, as well as keeping foes from setting up on it. I prefer Roar over Dragon Tail since it scares out Substitute users, which give this team absolute HELL. Blastoise's physical bulk is incredible and really allows it to do its job all day long, provided it's not on the verge of dying.

    • Not much really needs improved on this guy, it does its job to the most solid degree. I have been thinking of running Hitmontop, mainly for the purpose of providing an extra Intimidate as well as being a Rapid Spinner, but I'm not totally sure if it's as solid as Blastoise is on this team at Rapid Spinning and spreading status. However, Blastoise relies heavily on support from Umbreon from both Wish and Heal Bell to save it from status, which it often receives from opposing Blastoise. I don't want to run Rest, as I'm A) Going to become setup fodder in the process, and B) Going to be relying EVEN MORE on Umbreon's Heal Bell, which has only so many uses. If Blastoise is down, I lose a lot of the physical Defense on this team and switching in becomes universally harder against attackers. I also lose the ability to PHaze setup sweepers with Roar, and most importantly, any and all hazards will be stuck on my side the duration of the match.


    [​IMG]


    Vulcan (Arcanine) (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Intimidate
    EVs: 252 SDef / 252 HP / 4 Atk
    Careful Nature
    - Flare Blitz
    - ExtremeSpeed
    - Morning Sun
    - Will-O-Wisp



    • Bulky Arcanine is an up-and-coming threat in UU, I swear. It's good on so many levels, switching it in helps me weaken a foe with Intimidate, and Will-O-Wisp helps me both spread status to rack up residual damage, as well as cripple physical attackers, even after Intimidate's stat drop. The EVs maximize special bulk, since its ability + Will-O-Wisp cover any worries I may need to have for physical attacks. Extremespeed is good for priority and finishing off weakened targets (exceptionally useful on a team built around weakening everything), and Morning Sun is for recovery.

    • Arcanine is probably my best bet at breaking Substitutes, should I be forced into it. The unfortunate side-effect is that A) Due to a lack of Speed investment, it's slow as bricks. Meaning it's not hard to kill it after setting up, provided you have the right Pokemon. B) Due to a lack of Attack investment, it can only go so far with its STAB and Extremespeed. If anything has a ton of Defense, or can resist its two attacks, it won't be hard to set up on. If Arcanine goes down, the team doesn't suffer entirely as much, however it loses the edge at crippling physical attackers that it shares with Sableye. Another thing I'm starting to notice, I don't get a lot of free reign to use Will-O-Wisp. It may just be the situations I let Arcanine get put into, but it seems as though I find myself using Morning Sun more often, when I find myself not attacking. It may be a bit ridiculous but I may consider testing Toxic over Will-O-Wisp, or some other move.


    [​IMG]


    Rosetta Stone (Roserade) (F) @ Black Sludge
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 SAtk / 252 SDef
    Calm Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Giga Drain
    - Leech Seed
    - Spikes
    - Rest




    • Last but not least, Roserade. I've used this thing on a couple of my other teams, and I've always been pleased with its performance. Roserade also completes the Fire/Water/Grass core the team has, and has the EVs to sponge Special attacks nonstop. I usually run the spread of 252 HP/120 Def/136 SpDef on Roserade, but figured I would try something that capitalizes more on special bulk since the team itself is highly defensive. Natural Cure makes this my go-to status absorber, and when switching in Roserade I often get many chances to set up Leech Seed. It's kind of an overlooked move to me, but it's so perfect for helping Roserade do its job. I run Giga Drain for STAB over Sludge Bomb (which would help me at least put up a fight against other Grass-types) just for the sake of beating bulky waters and recovering HP, both on water-types and on things neutral to Grass attacks. I run Spikes to help set up additional hazards, as once a layer or two (or three) of Spikes has been set alongside Stealth Rock, this team's true potential becomes manifest, especially when factoring the amount of switches Leech Seed can force in its own right. Rest is Rest, which gives me more survivability, and always goes great with Natural Cure.

    • The most unfortunate thing about this set is that it's walled flat by any and all Grass-Types, and the most I can do is set up Spikes against them, and it helps ease the opponent's prediction because more likely than not I'm going to be forced into going for Arcanine to deal with them. Shaymin gets a special mention at absolutely ruining this Roserade due to its access to Substitute, Earth Power, and Air Slash, moves that give trouble to my team in general, can destroy Arcanine on the switch, and destroy Roserade, respectively. If I were to run Sludge Bomb over Giga Drain, it would specifically be to handle Shaymin.


    In Conclusion:

    As said before, this team is essentially a 6-Pokemon Core. I find Sableye to be the weakest link on the team due to how often it gets KO'd, yet it has the most utility in helping the team handle the things that threaten it the most. This team is absolutely DEVASTATED by anything that uses Substitute lategame, as more often than not, the few things I have to prevent Sub from going up/break the Pokemon's Substitute are more than likely dead. Anything with a speedy Taunt makes quick work of this team if Sableye is gone, and anything with RestTalk can either give this team absolute hell, or at least force an extremely long game based around PP Stalling. You may also notice most of my Pokemon have 0 IVs in Atk. It's simply to lessen damage dealt by Confusion/Foul Play. It's situationally rare, but there's no reason not to reduce the IVs on anything not using its Atk stat, so better be safe than sorry.


    tl;dr: Crobat, Snorlax, Sableye, CroCune (offensive Suicune sets I can handle. The CroCune set, I cannot), Raikou, anything else that packs Substitute, anything else that packs Sleep Talk, and opposing Umbreon all are major threats to this team, and I'd really like some suggestions on how to deal with them better. Umbreon especially, as this team seriously can not get around it.
  2. CoolStoryBrobat

    CoolStoryBrobat The hero Smogon needs, but not the one it deserves
    is a Community Contributoris a Battle Server Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2012
    Messages:
    860
    Anyone have any recommendations or pointers at all? Much as I hate to have risked some ladder points by testing this team with changes, I've resorted to it, though not to much avail...
  3. Organization Member XIV

    Organization Member XIV

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2012
    Messages:
    669
    The only suggestion I have for this great stall team is putting Lagging Tail on Sableye over Sticky Barb. The fact that Pokemon will always go last in their priority bracket is a lot better than residual damage IMO.
  4. morningsun

    morningsun

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2012
    Messages:
    103
    Nice team you got here. I just have a couple suggestions.

    Consider running Whimsicott in place of Sabeleye. It is really useful.

    Set:
    Show Hide
    Whimsicott@Focus Sash
    Nature: Timid
    EVs: 252 HP, 252 Def, 4 SpD
    Moves:
    Taunt
    Encore
    Stun Spore
    Giga Drain

    Stun Spore is the crux of this set. It slows down and often cripples threats on opposing teams. Taunt for Taunting. Encore is for set up sweepers who have already started setting up. Taunt and Encore together form a dangerous combination. Giga Drain so that you're not Taunt bait.


    The other thing I recommend is a much more offensive Arcanine. I know that this is a stall team, but with Intimidate on hand, it can very easily take most physical hits. The extra power will make it a much more efficient sweeper.

    Set:
    Show Hide
    Arcanine@Leftovers
    Nature: Adamant
    EVs: 72 HP, 252 Atk, 8 SpD, 176 Spe
    Moves:
    Flare Blitz
    Extremespeed
    Wild Charge/Crunch/Close Combat
    Morning Sun (tee hee)

    This set is fairly standard and in my opinion what this team needs to clean up.


    Good luck!
  5. Not Jacky

    Not Jacky

    Joined:
    May 20, 2012
    Messages:
    54
    There's really no good reason to use Umbreon over Chansey now that it's dropped. Its wishes are better, and it can toxic-stall much more efficiently. Its only real flaws are that it lacks leftovers recovery, is vulnerable to the rare Leech Seed, and a lack of good resistances, but Umbreon doesn't have many resistances either.

    Chansey (F) @ Eviolite
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
    Bold Nature
    - Heal Bell / Seismic Toss
    - Toxic / Seismic Toss
    - Wish
    - Protect

    Chansey has no issue taking special hits even uninvested, so maximum investment into physical defense lets her tank random physical hits more effectively.

    Good luck!
  6. Hypnotize

    Hypnotize

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2013
    Messages:
    21
    hi cool team ^ ^
    I tried it and it seems really nice.
    I have not found very large problems, just maybe Sableye set that I really like, maybe try a standard set like this

    Sableye (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Prankster
    EVs: 252 HP / 120 Def / 136 SDef
    Calm Nature (+ SDef,-Atk)
    - Recover
    - Taunt
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Foul Play

    good luck ^ ^

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)