1. Welcome to Smogon! Check out the Smogon Starters Hangout for everything you need to know about starting out in the community. Don't forget to introduce yourself in the Introduction and Hangout Thread, too!
  2. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.

The Dark Horse Project III

Discussion in 'BW OU' started by Birkal, Mar 2, 2012.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Leethoof

    Leethoof

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2011
    Messages:
    2,452
    Pokemon Online Username: SiberiairebiS
    Hall of Fame Standing: Nope
    Dark Horse Pokemon Currently Working With: Archeops
    Current Ladder Standing: 1000
  2. Zoap

    Zoap

    Joined:
    May 23, 2009
    Messages:
    489
    Just a tiny update on how things are going. First off I dropped Latios from the team(even though it isn't a dark horse), she just seemed to be not pulling her weight and left me open to Volcarona big time. Filled her spot with a neat set I made up with Heatran(which is great for dealing with the bug as well as giving me an answer to sun teams). Overall while I had Latios I jumped around the high 1000's to high 1100's never breaking the 1200 barrier. Was at 1147 when I started today and broke 1200 in 4 battles(could have been 3 but I got frozen by a gliscor Ice Fang first turn of game 3 and it took Azelf out, which was my check to the majority of his team).

    As to my Dark Horses, everyone, even Bulbasaur is completing their job magnificently, albeit Mienshao and Azelf go above and beyond most matches. Right now I'm very pleased with all 3 DH's and especially so with Bulbasaur who often time gives me just what I need. I

    I dont want to divulge too much set wise as I hope to break 1300 sometime next week(work is destroying me this week), so with limited battle time I'm hoping to get 3 more into the HoF.
  3. toshimelonhead

    toshimelonhead Raising Whitney's Miltank

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2009
    Messages:
    1,152
  4. /B/utterfree

    /B/utterfree

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2010
    Messages:
    486
  5. Zoap

    Zoap

    Joined:
    May 23, 2009
    Messages:
    489
    Just looking at your team, Volcarona seems to be a huge threat as if it carries HP Ice it can muscle through 5/6(Politoed too if it gets 2 boosts). A simple fix would be Heatran over Magnezone, which will also help with your Sun team weakness. At the same time running Heatran in Rain is pretty odd ball so you could perhaps consider a bulky/scarf Infernape over Toxicroak. Infernape also will give you a SR user something along the lines of this could work:

    Infernape@Choice Scarf
    252 Att/252 Spe/4 Def

    Rock Slide
    Close Combat
    Stealth Rock
    U-Turn

    I have a bulky ape set somewhere that I came up with a while ago, but can't remember the specifics, so I'll edit that in if I find it.

    In other news made mid 1200's today, hopefully 1300 by next week! In bad news I looked at the ladder and I'll need a ranking of 1376 to get top 80 :(.
  6. Lady Alex

    Lady Alex I asked Mawile to not hurt me. I was betrayed.
    is a Tiering Contributor

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2010
    Messages:
    572
    Infernape's effectiveness in rain is going to be limited at best. Without having fire coverage, infernape completely loses its ability to be a threatening wallbreaker. HP ice is relatively uncommon (38% of volcarona run hidden power, of which I'm confident that over half were hidden power ground), which means that tornadus can switch in on a quiver dance and survive a +1 fiery dance in the rain while getting a 1hko in return.
  7. Zoap

    Zoap

    Joined:
    May 23, 2009
    Messages:
    489
    Well with Magnezone covering steels and parasect covering grass, fire is un-needed for his team. Infernape gives him rocks, an effective check to both other weather starters and a revenge killer all in one. U-turn also provides him some momentum to get Parasect the favorable matchups it needs.

    Also Tornadus is weak to rocks, and can be worn down quickly, which means because he lacks rocks of his own, said Volcarona can just switch around waiting till tornadus in that KO range.

    That being said Terrakion can also do a similar job and might also be viable option. Defensive wise Blastoise can Rapid Spin, Roar, Toxic and abuse Rain Dish, all dependent on which way you want to go.
  8. Lady Alex

    Lady Alex I asked Mawile to not hurt me. I was betrayed.
    is a Tiering Contributor

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2010
    Messages:
    572
    The turn that infernape stealth rocks immediately gives the opponent momentum since he can't u-turn out. Forretress imo would serve his team better for entry hazards as well as giving him a more reliable switch-in to dragons.
  9. Zoap

    Zoap

    Joined:
    May 23, 2009
    Messages:
    489
    Then run life orb over scarf, forretress adds to his sun vulnerability already carrying two dry skinners.
  10. SlimMan

    SlimMan

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2010
    Messages:
    1,474
    I agree with Lady Alex. Very few pokemon can get away with running support moves on a Choice set (CB Ferrothorn, anyone?), and Infernape isn't one of them. Furthermore, without its Fire STAB Scarf Infernape really doesn't have any advantages over Scarf Terrakion (U-Turn is more than made up for by STAB on the Rock move, some slight amount of bulk, and greater power, but if you really want U-Turn even Scarf Landorus would probably work better than the set you posted).
    Also, you mentioned a bulky Infernape set, which just doesn't work. Period. Infernape shouldn't be taking any hits other than like Crunch or Bullet Punch, and even those can do damage. No. His whole purpose is hitting hard and fast with great coverage and excellent (mixed) stats, which investing bulk would prevent him from doing.
    As for Life Orb Infernape, how would that help with Volcarona at all? It looked like Volcarona is why you suggested Infernape, and if that is why you suggested Infernape then the LO set would be self-defeating (Infernape in general is a poor answer for the fire moth).
    I concur that Forretress would be nice, for the reasons that Lady Alex outlined.

    As for myself, I got to 1347 last night. Then I tilted and haven't won a battle since. This is what I do a lot, so I'm not surprised. But it's just so disheartening, it's gonna be several days before I get over it and can start battling again. Q.Q
  11. Lady Alex

    Lady Alex I asked Mawile to not hurt me. I was betrayed.
    is a Tiering Contributor

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2010
    Messages:
    572
    I totally know how you feel. That happened to me twice with suicune before I finally got it into DH. I wasn't used to having any difficulty laddering my DH pokemon into DH, so losing so much with suicune really hurt my ego lol.
  12. Master of the Six Kings

    Master of the Six Kings

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2008
    Messages:
    792
    Well, i just can't take the tilt anymore, so i'm moving on. Gonna work with Golurk and Weavile, under the approriate "GoVile" Nickname xD
  13. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2004
    Messages:
    8,564
  14. Mafeking

    Mafeking channels his inner Wolverine
    is a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2012
    Messages:
    461
    I'm apparently a terrible terrible liar and had no access to Smogon outside my phone for the last three days. Anyway I'm home now, this will be updated post-haste!

    Also, to supply conversation: Since Lady Alex denied my fantastic Nasty Plot Mew set from winning and stuff, I'm using Nasty Plot Togekiss with the same moves (except Air Slash over Fire Blast) in its place! Haven't had much of a chance to test yet, but I've been thinking about it. A lot of my team has changed as a result too. It'll be interesting.

    UPDATED. Now with 100% more correct Pokemon and links, since I discovered like two that I'd messed up links with hahahahahahah I suck.
  15. SuperChillarmy

    SuperChillarmy

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2010
    Messages:
    117
    Hey Mafeking, I'm working with Alakazam, not Galvantula. Just so ya know.
  16. Mafeking

    Mafeking channels his inner Wolverine
    is a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2012
    Messages:
    461
    Oh right ._.

    Fixed, sorry.
  17. Razza

    Razza

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2011
    Messages:
    454
  18. Lady Alex

    Lady Alex I asked Mawile to not hurt me. I was betrayed.
    is a Tiering Contributor

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2010
    Messages:
    572
    Because you did not post a screenshot
  19. Molk

    Molk Crustle knocked off the opposing Rhydon's Assault Vest!
    is a Tutoris a member of the Site Staffis an official Team Rateris a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Smogon IRC AOPis a Super Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    RU Co-Leader

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2011
    Messages:
    4,013
    is it too late to register?

    Pokemon Online Username: Molk plays OU
    Hall of Fame Standing: none
    Dark Horse Pokemon Currently Working With: Virizion
    Current Ladder Standing: 1000 --> 1157 --> 1275 --> 1311 --> 1350

    highest ive ever been in OU im proud of myself ;_;
  20. shuckles my hero

    shuckles my hero

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2009
    Messages:
    347
    Pokemon Online Username: shucklesmyhero-DHRHI
    Hall of Fame Standing: none
    Dark Horse Pokemon Currently Working With: Shuckle
    Current Ladder Standing: 1000
  21. The Silent Storm

    The Silent Storm

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2010
    Messages:
    99
    So after some connession problems I'm back, but can you guys enter the Smogon Server? I'm trying to enter it since 2 days but it ''stops'' after the:

    Connected to Server!
    Your client version (1.0.30) doesn't match with the server's (1.0.53S).

    Is this a version problem? On PO and other servers I can enter just fine but here...
  22. Mafeking

    Mafeking channels his inner Wolverine
    is a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2012
    Messages:
    461
    The alt you're attempting to use may have been registered by someone else or your password might be incorrect; a similar case happened with me a few weeks ago. If that's not it then perhaps you should update your version. :P
  23. Bad Ass

    Bad Ass hello ruby in the dust
    is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Past WCoP Winneris the 2nd Grand Slam Winner

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2009
    Messages:
    2,383

    yeah, no screenshot. for future reference, just click on the PO leaderboard, click on your name and hit alt + prt sc. then open ms paint and it will be what you named it. upload to imgur. takes 25 seconds.
  24. WashedLaundry

    WashedLaundry

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2012
    Messages:
    39
    New month, new opportunity, I guess. I tried hail last month, and enjoyed it to an extent, albeit I felt limited with too many options to cover and too few Pokemon to do it. The Abomasnow/Kyurem/Mamoswine core is pretty frightening but the threats to it are vast and common.

    So this month, I'm giving sweeping Azelf a try.

    Pokemon Online Username: Dashboard Din
    Hall of Fame Standing: N/A
    Dark Horse Pokemon Currently Working With: Azelf
    Current Ladder Standing: 1000

    [​IMG]
    Azelf @ Life Orb
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Nasty Plot
    - Psyshock
    - Flamethrower
    - Energy Ball

    While Azelf lacks the blinding speed, it's got the power to make it everything Deo-S wanted to be as a sweeper but couldn't. With 125 base Sp.Atk and 115 base Speed, it should easily outpace and strike hard against most of the metagame. Psyshock's there as a primary attacking move, Flamethrower is for coverage against steel types looking for an easy switch. The last move was a toss-up for me, but I ultimately opted for Energy Ball to hit bulky waters, notably Rotom-W.
  25. Texas Cloverleaf

    Texas Cloverleaf meh
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2009
    Messages:
    7,740
    Now is as good a time as any to post these.

    How did you choose your Dark Horse Pokemon for this project? What lead you to choose the Pokemon you did? Did you have regrets or were you happy with your selection?
    I went about choosing Sceptile as my Dark Horse Pokemon based on some reasonably extensive use I gave it in RU; Sceptile is also my favourite starter. I specifically wanted Sceptile because I wanted to use a Pokemon from a lower tier instead of copping out and using an OU mon and Sceptile gave me a powerful special attacker that limits need for a Choice Scarf user by dint of its Speed. Overall I was very pleased with Sceptile's job as a Dark Horse Pokemon.

    How did you go about building a team for your Dark Horse Pokemon? Which kinds of teammates did you consider? What factors contributed to the team you created?
    Since the beginning of BW I have been, and undoubtedly will continue to be a Rain based user. Sun was fun with Blazekin but was difficult to get the hang of and Tyranitar was never workable for me so when Lady Salamence suggested Rain as a good partner for Sceptile I was quite enthused. Being a primarily balanced player, I quickly decided that I wanted to have an offensive core and a defensive core that could complement each other. As Sceptile was already filling the powerful special attacker role, Politoed became our bulky water, as well as a means of dealing with set up threats. Tentacruel then became a natural fit, with both of the team mates being vulnerable to entry hazards. Bringing Toxic Spikes and Rapid Spin is a godsned, as well as being a bulky water with a unique set of resistances that are incredibly useful. The next two Pokemon weren't contrived at all but ended up falling in place on their own. I had used SubCM Jirachi and SubBounce Gyarados a long time ago in the beginning of Round 4 and loved how they worked. Jirachi was the first to join the team and Gyarados quickly followed, being able to set up on the Gastrodon that cockblock Jirachi. The final Pokemon was the most natural fit possible. I needed hazards. I needed a Rotom-W check. I needed a member of my defensive core to provided resistances and to cover the weaknesses of the two bulk waters. Ferrothorn was a perfect fit.

    Do you think it is more difficult or less difficult to ladder with a Dark Horse Pokemon? Why? Does the element of surprise play a factor in your battles? Is it easier to fight with a "highly used"" team or with Pokemon that are less common?
    I'm not convinced its more difficult necessarily to ladder with a Dark Horse Pokemon, more that it tests your ability to teambuild to a far greater extent. If your team is constructed in a manner such that your Dark Horse Pokemon is using its abilities to its full capacity there shouldn't be any reason for laddering to be more difficult. Of course, by using a Dark Horse Pokemon you open yourself up to becoming vulnerable to the naturally greater numbers of checks that exist for that Pokemon. However, the element of surprise is definitely a factor in your benefit. For example, although Sceptile's moveset and capabilities are generally known, it is almost never seen in OU among teammates and the opponent must therefore identify whether I was using a special set, a Sub Seed set or a Unburden sweeper set and that definitely gave Sceptile a few free KOs here and there. As for the final question the only thing that determines what is easier to use is your level of comfort. I initially used a Sand team with Sceptile. It sucked. When i switched to Rain things went much more smoothly.

    (For Hall of Fame members only) How did you reach the Hall of Fame? Was it easy or difficult? Did having a Dark Horse Pokemon on your team benefit you? What advice would you give to those laddering with Dark Horse Pokemon?
    I played Pokemon.

    In all seriousness I just created a team that had good synergy, was reasonably anti-metagame and that abused my Dark Horse Pokemons abilities to the fullest. Of course success can also come from a Dark Horse Pokemon complementing the team but that's a different story. It was easy for me up to a point as ladder wins continued coming right up until my ladder peak. I tilted after that however, so its a slippery slope one walks. The last two questions go hand in hand for me, and the answer to that being that it did benefit me, and the reason it did so is because i was familiar with the Pokemon. I knew what Sceptile was capable of, and where it would fall short. I think that that is a big thing for challengers, knowing your Pokemon and how it will fare, because without that how can you reasonably expect to build a successful team?
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)