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The Dark Horse Project IV

Discussion in 'BW OU' started by Birkal, Oct 2, 2012.

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  1. Raseri

    Raseri musharna fan
    is a Tutoris a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Researcher Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
    NU Leader

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    3,231
    Pokemon Showdown! Username: im not raseri
    Hall of Fame Standing: None
    Dark Horse Pokemon Currently Working With: Registeel, Azumarill
    Current Ladder Standing: None
  2. Lady Alex

    Lady Alex I asked Mawile to not hurt me. I was betrayed.
    is a Tiering Contributor

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    What double post? ^_^
  3. Lavos Spawn

    Lavos Spawn
    is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Past WCoP Winner

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    question: does grandmaster still require me to be #3 or higher, or have we transitioned to purely Glicko2?
  4. Ninelol

    Ninelol

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    can I ask you to please put me back in the HOF if you look at my updated post I'm still in Bronze
  5. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
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    Doubles Co-Lead

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    ya, ninelol, I have much updating to do on HoF x-x I def want your awesome team on HoF :) Plz be patient though :x
  6. Ninelol

    Ninelol

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    Sorry sir, wasn't trying to sound snappy Just thought you might not have seen it! That and this gastrondon ladder isn't going as smooth ._.
  7. LucaroarkZ

    LucaroarkZ

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    I made it.

    Pokemon Showdown! Username: Tricky Fox
    Dark Horse Pokemon: Zoroark
    Screenshot of Top 100 Ladder Ranking:

    [​IMG]

    Dark Horse Pokemon Complete Set:

    [​IMG]

    Zoroark @ Choice Specs
    Trait: Illusion
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Dark Pulse
    - Flamethrower
    - Focus Blast
    - Trick

    Questions:

    How did you choose your Dark Horse Pokemon for this project? What lead you to choose the Pokemon you did? Did you have regrets or were you happy with your selection?

    I chose Zoroark because it's my favorite Pokemon - both design-wise and competitively. I love how Illusion can be so useful at times, and it has saved me in battles many times.

    How did you go about building a team for your Dark Horse Pokemon? Which kinds of teammates did you consider? What factors contributed to the team you created?

    I wanted Pokemon that could be easily disguised as Zoroark - So Scizor and Mamoswine naturally joined the team. Zoroark can't really sweep on its own and doesn't really like Blissey and Chansey, so I also considered Pokemon that could beat the pink blobs and sweep - That was none other than Keldeo. The factor that primarily contributed to the team I made was from what I found I was having the most trouble with in battles.

    Do you think it is more difficult or less difficult to ladder with a Dark Horse Pokemon? Why? Does the element of surprise play a factor in your battles? Is it easier to fight with a "highly used"" team or with Pokemon that are less common?

    In my case, it was slightly more difficult to ladder because if you make a single mistake using Zoroark, it can cost you the game - Which happened to me many times while laddering. The element of surprise definitely played a factor a factor in my battles because, for example, when I double-switched to Zoroark (disguised as Scizor) predicting Gyarados to come in, I used Trick on it as I knew it would either go for Substitute or Dragon Dance, so Gyarados would be much easier to deal with later. As for the final part of the question, it really depends - Usually the "highly used" Pokemon are better, but sometimes a lesser-used Pokemon can add some surprise to the match - Something Zoroark is very good at.

    (For Hall of Fame members only) How did you reach the Hall of Fame? Was it easy or difficult? Did having a Dark Horse Pokemon on your team benefit you? What advice would you give to those laddering with Dark Horse Pokemon?

    I reached the hall of fame by laddering and fixing my team where necessary. It was difficult because in the early stages, the team was not as good as it could have been and seemed sort of directionless. Having a Dark Horse Pokemon on my team benefited me because Zoroark can surprise the opponent very well and potentially win you the game, even if it's only alive for two or three turns.

    For those laddering with Dark Horse Pokemon: Never give up on your Pokemon. Although early on it may seem like the Pokemon just isn't worth it, if you stick with it, the results will be good.

    here's an RMT of the team I used (am I allowed to do this?)
  8. alkinesthetase

    alkinesthetase <@dtc> every day with alk is a bad day
    is a Smogon IRC SOp Alumnus

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    you guys are mean, waiting until i get onto the greyhound for 2 hours (heading back for thanksgiving because canada) and THEN posting like crazy >_> i think my update should be done but i will be scrolling back through the thread to be sure

    thunderblunder, note that gyarados is not a dark horse (not even close) - tornadus-incarnate is though, so your registration is acceptable.

    lavos, unless i'm like hugely mistaken, the leaderboard requirements have not changed: gm is still cutting off at top 3, plat at top 10, etc.

    anyway wow things are really getting intense, we've got nearly sixty participants (and several people are making second runs, so if we count those separately, we're easily at like 62+). keep it up, OU!
  9. Jobriq

    Jobriq

    Joined:
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    60
    Dark Bird

    Pokemon Showdown! Username:Daler's Return
    Dark Horse Pokemon: Mandibuzz and Abomasnow, (also Kyurem but Trop already used him)
    Hall of Fame Standing: Silver, I had a W/L of 45-10.
    Screenshot of Top 100 Ladder Ranking:
    Show Hide
    [​IMG]

    Dark Horse Pokemon Complete Set:
    [​IMG]
    MEHNDIbuzz (Mandibuzz) (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Overcoat
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
    Careful Nature
    - Taunt
    - Roost
    - Whirlwind
    - Brave Bird

    People underestimate this birds godly bulk. The first 2 moveslots are required. The third can possibly be replaced with toxic but you'll need whirlwind for sub/CM Jirachi and some other boosters. In the 4th slot I think my favorite choice is Knock Off, but it's a bit gimmicky and it backfires hard if I hit a Terrakion switching in. I've tried Foul Play and U-turn in that slots but Brave Bird is usually the best option since it actually does some damage. I love that Genesect can only do around 35% with +1 u-turn or unboosted ice beam.

    [​IMG]
    Frosty (Abomasnow) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Snow Warning
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
    Adamant Nature
    - Wood Hammer
    - Leech Seed
    - Ice Shard
    - Protect

    I didn't feel speed EVs were needed since I'm usually stalling with protect or revenging with ice shard. Leech seed is important for hitting scizor/genesect when it comes in, since I can then protect on their u-turn for a total of 50% of their HP gone (2*hail+2*leech seed+stealth rock). I'm such a scrub that I'll use protect twice in a row at times and it's won me games lol [​IMG]

    Questions:
    How did you choose your Dark Horse Pokemon for this project? What lead you to choose the Pokemon you did? Did you have regrets or were you happy with your selection?
    I used a team similar to the one I used in the outsider's challenge II, except that I used Heatran (who was banned by the outsider's rules). Mandibuzz is a favorite underdog of mine and she's a pretty awesome special wall. Hail is probably my favorite weather and Abomasnow deals with Politoed well. Hail is also Mandibuzz's best niche in OU since Overcoat protects her from hail.

    How did you go about building a team for your Dark Horse Pokemon? Which kinds of teammates did you consider? What factors contributed to the team you created?
    I used a team I had laddered with before. I used Sub/Roost Kyurem, a pretty amazing pokemon on its own, and hail support allows it to use Blizzard over Ice Beam. I also used Heatran and Tentacruel, who are pretty standard on defensive Hail teams as they help win the weather war against sun and rain teams. The final member was Skarmory since I needed a defensive wall and spikes support helps a lot.

    Do you think it is more difficult or less difficult to ladder with a Dark Horse Pokemon? Why? Does the element of surprise play a factor in your battles? Is it easier to fight with a "highly used"" team or with Pokemon that are less common?
    It's a bit difficult to ladder with some Dark Horses (or Dark Birds) like Mandibuzz. Below 5% usage seems a bit high for what I'd call a Dark Horse, since it's not like all the pokemon below 5% are bad (celebi, Deo-d, azelf, suicune). Of course there are some pokemon who simply shouldn't be used in OU. I think the difference between a Dark Horse like Mandibuzz or Hippowdon is that, in order for them to be effective, they need to be on a team with synergy that is well-built to support them, where as more common things, like Scizor and Terrakion can be thrown on almost any team as they are played rather simply (spam high-power attacks).

    The element of surprise is pretty damn important for Mandibuzz's effectiveness, and to an extent for Kyurem and Abomasnow. A lot of times I'd have opponents bring in ferrothorn not realizing Mandibuzz can simply taunt it. Some opponents will underestimate Mandibuzz's bulk and attack with non-STAB Ice Beams only to have it do like 25% damage.

    (For Hall of Fame members only) How did you reach the Hall of Fame? Was it easy or difficult? Did having a Dark Horse Pokemon on your team benefit you? What advice would you give to those laddering with Dark Horse Pokemon?
    I tended to make small changes my team a lot when laddering. I hardly went 3 games without changing one of Mandibuzz's moves. I even used heatproof Bronzong over Heatran sometimes and I changed Kyurem's EVs to outspeed standard Haxorus at one point, although I changed it back since the decrease in power cost me a match.
    Advice I'd give to other's laddering with a Dark Horse is to be sure your team has decent synergy with it and isn't something like
    Tyranitar/Landorus/Terrakion/Scizor/Rotom-W/Dark Horse (Stereotypical BW1 Offensive Sand team)
  10. Chillarmy

    Chillarmy

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    515
    Cresselia hates me, so I'm changing my dark horse to Omastar; I edited my reg post to show this =)

    edit: ajninagnig is still a fresh alt
  11. alkinesthetase

    alkinesthetase <@dtc> every day with alk is a bad day
    is a Smogon IRC SOp Alumnus

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    if you've got ladder record on your current alt, chill, you'll have to change to a new alt as well - i'll pencil down your change to omastar in the mean time (EDIT: gotcha, chill)

    pocket and i are working hard on updating that hall of fame, guys, please be patient! also be forewarned - some of you had screenshots whose ratings were not high enough to qualify under the new ranking cutoffs. here is a rough list of all the screenshots i saw in this thread going from pages 1 to 7, and the associated rankings that they will now entail. if you have a screenshot that exceeds the one listed here or if you have a screenshot that i altogether missed (gasp), please both update your post, AND drop me a VM to ensure that you get my immediate attention (pocket is actually writing the post, probably, so let him be =P i'll let him know myself as soon as possible). we're working hard on it folks! keep laddering in the meantime, we got this shit 8D

    rough list... yes (open)
    2300+, 3+
    2200+, 10+
    2100+, 25+
    2050+, 50+
    1950+, 100+

    thestarrapper obscura - BRONZE (1977/47)
    tempv1 tempv5 - BRONZE (1971/89)
    ganj4lf evilgrin10 - BRONZE (1977/74)
    clubbingsealcub sphealwithit - NONE (1940/92)
    jimbon dialysis - NONE (1905/100)
    lady alex miss k. - PLAT (2323/8) [corrected, thanks lady alex]
    ginganinja wealllovebirkal - GOLD (2227/16)
    rickyhorror miss may I - BRONZE (2015/63)
    eranu vwgold - BRONZE (2043/62)
    ninelol ninelol - BRONZE (1976/27)
    tropious best kyurem - SILVER (2060/17)
    molk tlc2gud - PLAT (2237/5) [corrected, thanks molk]
    subaksupreme monsey - SILVER (2143/39)
    lavos spawn cune - GM (2435/2)
    absolete obsolute - NONE (1919/65)
    alexwolf moltresman2 - SILVER (2052/36)
    masterofsixkings mchammerarm - NONE (1921/99)
    tropious themightyambipom - BRONZE (1971/93)
    molk soiled it - GOLD (2213/21)
    lucaroarkz trickyfox - BRONZE (1954/96)
    jobriq daler's return - BRONZE (1970/100)
  12. Master of the Six Kings

    Master of the Six Kings

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    Alright, grinded back into top 100 with 1950 glicko. Bounced around 1944-49 for like an hour in the greatest back and forth haxathon i've ever witnessed lol. Older post still has all details, but here's new proof. Still going to switch to Zangoose for kicks.

    NewProof (open)

    [​IMG]
  13. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnus
    Doubles Co-Lead

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    OK, with some help from alkinesthetase in book-keeping, HoF is now fully updated! With the tougher restrictions, some previous HoFers were dropped (Jimbon & ClubbinSealCubs) and Platinum rank is empty again :( Absolete, your Trick Room mons have also not made it to HoF x( Lavos Spawn, the Grandmaster, has come out of it unscathed, though xD

    Props to TropiOUs in finding a way to make SHITipom work in OU - who would've thought to Scarf that critter! Also big congrats, to Molk for placing Gold twice in 2 consecutive days >:D

    We have one more thing to celebrate - we have the most HoFers than in any previous installment of DHP! I want to thank you all for making Dark Horse a major success!
  14. Lady Alex

    Lady Alex I asked Mawile to not hurt me. I was betrayed.
    is a Tiering Contributor

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    I have a screenshot in my post that is 2300+ and top 10, so I should be platinum...

    Pocket EDIT: oops, I'll go double check

    Pocket EDIT2: fixed, sorry!
  15. Birkal

    Birkal We have the technology.
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Battle Server Administratoris an Artistis a Super Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a CAP Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributor
    CAP Head Mod

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    Jobriq, what convinced you to use Mandibuzz on a Hail team? You didn't release your entire team (which is cool) but I'm just curious as to what went on in your mind in the teammate selecting phase there. I am by no means saying it's a bad choice! I am just genuinely curious as to why you picked that Pokemon specifically.
  16. DrunkDemon

    DrunkDemon

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    Changed my alt to Cossack since my rank is barely increasing at this point.
  17. ganj4lF

    ganj4lF Nobody is safe from the power of science!
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    I tried out his team back in the Outsiders Challenge; Overcoat is fairly good on Hail, negating the periodic damage without resorting to a poor defensive typing like Ice is. Also, as he said, Mandibuzz has a freaking good special bulk and it's not too shabby even on the physical side, so I'm not really surprised about his choice. Hail Stall proved itself incredibly effective, and Mandibuzz is not to be underestimated in such a team.
  18. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnus
    Doubles Co-Lead

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    2nd Announcement:

    Pokemon Eligibility for HoF
    Instead of our original "Early-Bird" Approach of challengers vying for HoF with the same Pokemon, we will now award those who peak highest! We made this change to accommodate the increased competitive spirit exuded from you guys. The new changes will basically affect bronze and probably silver-class HoFers, who may lose their spot on HoF this month if somebody peaks higher with the same Pokemon.

    Basically, fight at the very end to keep your name and Pokemon inscribed in our Dark Horse Hall of Fame! I hope you guys appreciate this new approach.
  19. DarkBlazeR

    DarkBlazeR

    Joined:
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    Feraligatr didn't really work out for me, so I'm going to restart the challenge.

    Pokemon Showdown! Username: Qomolangma
    Hall of Fame Standing: n/a
    Dark Horse Pokemon Currently Working With: Ditto
    Current Ladder Standing on Pokemon Showdown!: 1000 (update: 2058, 15 W / 0 L :D)
  20. Ambicrow3

    Ambicrow3

    Joined:
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    63
    Pokemon Showdown! Username: AmbicrowDH
    Hall of Fame Standing: n/a
    Dark Horse Pokemon Currently Working With: Flygon
    Current Ladder Standing on Pokemon Showdown!: 1000
  21. FastFlygon

    FastFlygon

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    http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ou2500605
    A little log of Carracosta in action - I misplay Genesect which leaves me in a tough situation towards the end, but a little bit of trickery allows Carracosta to pull out a win for me! If anyone has suggestions to replace Virizion, I'm all ears... it isn't pulling it's weight right now but I still need something for Ferro and Strong water moves...
  22. Electrolyte

    Electrolyte I'll be your light, your match, your burning sun
    is an official Team Rateris a Contributor to Smogonis a Battle Server Moderator
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    Pokemon Showdown! Username: ElectrolyteDH
    Dark Horse Pokemon: Cobalion
    Screenshot of Top 100 Ladder Ranking:
    Show Hide
    [​IMG]

    Dark Horse Pokemon Complete Set:
    Cobalion
    @ Expert Belt
    Naive nature, 28 Atk / 228 SpA / 252 Spe
    Close Combat / Volt Switch / Taunt / Hidden Power Ice


    How did you choose your Dark Horse Pokemon for this project? What lead you to choose the Pokemon you did? Did you have regrets or were you happy with your selection?
    The team I used was co-created by myself and NixHex- who originally introduced me to Cobalion. I saw the tremendous amount of potential in Cobalion with its high speed, great defense, and workable offensive stats as well as its wide movepool. Its fast Taunt bought me the moment I saw it. I am really happy with this decision- and as you can see from my avatar, Cobalion has become my favorite pokemon- because it's just so useful, flexible, and unpredictable.

    How did you go about building a team for your Dark Horse Pokemon? Which kinds of teammates did you consider? What factors contributed to the team you created?
    As I said earlier, NixHex and I created the team together- and I tested it and refurnished it. I saw that Cobalion was great at dealing with physical dragons- as neither of them can OHKO Cobalion without a boost with Outrage and Dragonite can not even 2HKO with Outrage at +1. In return, Cobalion's HP Ice was an OHKO to all three of them (Dragonite when Multiscale is broken) Those three dragons were major checks to another Dragon- and one of my favorites- Latias. A team was quickly built around the two, featuring SubCM Jirachi and Technician Breloom. We used Cobalion as a quick pivot and an answer to stall because of his fast taunt- and Latias was given Specs to surprised opponents and give us a lot of momentum as well as immediate firepower. Politoed was placed in there as a mixed wall, and also so Latias and Jirachi could fire Thunders without worrying about missing. Jirachi also got its Water Pulse boosted, which helped while it sweeped.

    Do you think it is more difficult or less difficult to ladder with a Dark Horse Pokemon? Why? Does the element of surprise play a factor in your battles? Is it easier to fight with a "highly used"" team or with Pokemon that are less common?
    I think it really depends on what pokemon you use. If you're saying that you're going to ladder with a Pikachu and you're going to get to the top 100, I'm going to wonder how you got out of the mental hospital, because everybody knows that even though Ash's Pikachu is lvl 1000 Pikachu still sucks. However, if you're laddering with a decent pokemon that just doesn't recieve much usage, then I think that it's not hard at all. BW2 has brought forth a plethora of new, powerful pokemon, leaving some others that are still functionable in the dust and forgotten. Just because it's not used that much doesn't mean it's bad- it just means that people haven't looked into it yet (unless it's Pikachu. Or Charizard.) Whether it's easier to battle with more common pokemon, I can not say, because it really depends on what your team is. If you've built an extremely solid team that REQUIRES the slot of maybe let's say a Flygon, yet you put in a Forretress instead because Flygon is in UU, then of course your team will not function as well as if you put a Flygon in there. It really depends on what your team needs handled- and if your team needs you to handle a pokemon that only a UU poke can counter, than god forbid use that UU pokemon.
    Surprise also does fall into play here- you have no idea how many people have switched Gliscor into Cobalion's Close Combat just to be OHKO'd by HP Ice. Or intimidating Gyarados's just to be OHKO'd by Volt Switch. Or Blisseys that switch into an HP Ice just to be OHKO'd by Close Combat. People don't know how Cobalion works- nor do they know it's sets- so it's often pretty hard to find a counter to it right off the bat.

    (For Hall of Fame members only) How did you reach the Hall of Fame? Was it easy or difficult? Did having a Dark Horse Pokemon on your team benefit you? What advice would you give to those laddering with Dark Horse Pokemon?
    I really don't know why, but I found it extremely easy to ladder up as high as I did. I even topped 2200, but my provisional was too high for me to show up on the ladder. I think it's because of the new ranking system of PS!, but I can't be sure.
    As for strategy wise, I think that the best advice would be to cover your weaknesses. If your Dark Horse pokemon turns out not as good as you thought it would be, then give it a role it can do well, and make the rest of your team handle everything else. For example, Cobalion was a sucker to Special moves- nearly anything special could OHKO it- so I handled that problem by adding two of the most specially defensive pokemon in the metagame- Latias and Jirachi. Cobalion was also a bit weak against defensive threats- so I added Breloom for extra firepower and the ability to cripple slower walls. Cobalion also had trouble dealing with boosted pokemon, so I added in Politoed to lock set ups and Landorus-T to Intimidate them into unboosted oblivion. Your team isn't just about your Dark Horse- even though that is what this project is about. Every pokemon and team has a weakness- and what matters is how you deal with it.
    As for laddering, I'd just say take it easy. There were times where I'd battle maybe 10 times a day, trying to raise my ranking, but it never helped. I'd get drained, frustrated, and my battling would get worse. It really isn't the end of the world if you don't get into the hall of fame- not everyone can get in. Just have fun, take it easy, don't stress, and even if you don't achieve gold status you still could have said that it was an enjoyable experience.

  23. Molk

    Molk mfw zoroark
    is a Tutoris a member of the Site Staffis a Smogon IRC AOPis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    RU Leader

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    Pokemon Showdown! Username: Fear the Trousers
    Hall of Fame Standing: Gold (i actually qualify for the new platinum, i sent a VM to alk)
    Dark Horse Pokemon Currently Working With: Scrafty, Amoonguss
    Current Ladder Standing on Pokemon Showdown!: ou 1981 91 2109 ± 90 (provisional) 20 2 0
    taking a break atm
  24. TROP

    TROP This is it, baby. Hold me.
    is a Tiering Contributor

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    Third run lgi
    Pokemon Showdown! Username: yukimenoko
    Hall of Fame Standing: Silver
    Dark Horse Pokemon Currently Working With: Froslass
    Current Ladder Standing on Pokemon Showdown!: this is a fresh alt made 2 minutes ago
  25. alexwolf

    alexwolf King of Conquerors
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    Congrats for making it so far with Cobalion Electrolyte! Your team is very good, and Cobalion is really underrated, when actually he is much better than some OU pokes such as Metagross imo, so let the world know!
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