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The Dark Horse Project (NU Edition)

Discussion in 'BW NU' started by JirachiCelebiMew, Feb 8, 2013.

  1. Wobble

    Wobble

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    As celever pointed out Pichu does indeed get Surf in Gen 3, so that set is NOT an illegality bug.

    Simply import the Pichu via Pal Park in Gen 4, and raise it to level 18.
  2. Ewil

    Ewil

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    I think i peaked Gold with a Glicko2 of 1958 ± 167.

    Should i edit the alt post or this post to share my experience ?

    EDIT: Sorry i miss that part of 100 :O
  3. FireMage

    FireMage Say Goodnight!
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributor
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    Put it on the "sign up" post, that way everything is easy to find

    Edit @Below - I misread it, lol, thanks for spotting that
  4. Constantinipple

    Constantinipple

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    is the deviation of 167 not a bit too high? the HoF post states that at least a Glicko2 rating with a deviation of 100 or lower is required to enter the HoF..
  5. qRob

    qRob

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    Changed it to Basculin

    Pokemon Showdown! Username: RF
    Hall of Fame Standing: n/a
    Dark Horse Pokemon Currently Working With: Basculin
    Current Ladder Standing on Pokemon Showdown!: 1721 ± 164 (provisional)

    Basculin-Blue-Striped @ Choice Band
    Trait: Adaptability
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    - Aqua Jet
    - Waterfall
    - Superpower
    - Crunch

    If any of you would like to give me some advice on a team built around Basculin I will gladly accept it.
  6. Punchshroom

    Punchshroom para is worse than sleep
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    Well finally did it, achieved Bronze. I used 3 teams to climb this (not very) high, but i had a lot of fun doing it. Note that I did not use all these Dark Horse pokes on the same team (Sneasel and Simipour are the only partners). Now to answer the questions:

    How did you choose your Dark Horse Pokemon for this project? What I had in mind are pokemon that have either great anti-meta potential or had the potential to strike back hard while making use of their greatest attributes, but still do not see much play.

    Sneasel's dual STABs alone strike much of the entire A- and S-ranked tier for super effective damage. It's low powered moves hold it back in this respect, but boasting the fastest Pursuit in the tier, as well as tremendously fast Ice STAB that isn't Ice Shard, grants it a sort of assassin-like role, equipped with CB for maximum potential.

    Muk has always been slow and can do little to change that (Golurk and the Regis at least have Rock Poish), but it can still make use of its good special bulk to tank a hit and annihilate things with CB Gunk Shot. I find Curse to be very ineffective in this meta: if you have somehow eliminated Golurk and the rampant Psychics without much hassle, it still has to boost up to do any real damage, plenty of time for an opponent to status and/or crit you. CB Muk says no to that, and stands up to the likes of Eelektross and Ludicolo and smothers them right off the bat. Muk even has decent coverage with the elemental punches, Brick Break and Shadow Sneak for any stray Psychics/Ghosts.

    Beheeyem is in much the same boat as Muk, except it faces even more competition with the various Psychics in the tier: Musharna is bulkier, Gardevoir is more versatile, Duosion has Magic Guard and does Trick Room sweeping better. Beheeyem is also sluggish, but that happens to be its greatest asset. Unlike Duosion, Beheeyem isn't exactly handicapped when not under Trick Room, as it launches obscenely powerful Analytic-boosted hits on near everything, which is devastating to defensive teams who lack the firepower to quickly dispatch Beheeyem and offensive teams who lack safe switch-ins and are unable to KO Beheeyem first. Beheeyem can also switch from wallbreaking to sweeping, much like Double Dancers such as Terrakion, Landorus-T and Groudon, by using Trick Room. As a rather small side note, Beheeyem also learns Thunderbolt which Duosion can't, allowing Beheeyem to thrash threats such as non-CB Braviary and non-Megahorn Samurott.

    I used Stoutland while ago, using EBeast's Parashuffling set. It worked decently, but is still outperformed by the many Normal-types in NU as far as effectiveness is concerned, and I always felt I could try something better. I deviated from the whole parashuffling role altogether (I felt Dragonair did it better anyway, as it actually RESISTS stuff), and gave Simipour a go. I always gave Nasty Plot a look, as Water had fantastic coverage in NU and everyone knew how dangerous Ludicolo and Gorebyss are after one turn of setup...which sadly brought me to the conclusion that Simipour is in that respect less effective and deadly (and frailer) than the aforementioned two in terms of one turn setup sweeps and thus is outclassed. I then looked towards Simipour's other sets (read: Choice Sets). Simipour is in my opinion more equipped to utilise Choice items as its moves have great neutral coverage and synergy (poor Simisage :( ), so I decided to give its Choice Scarf set a whirl as it sat in a good speed tier. It worked wonders, and Torrent was icing on the cake, 2HKOing unwary Musharna with Hydro Pump, with the second Pump against +1, after SR. It can outspeed numerous other Scarfers such as Braviary, Sawk and Rotoms then proceed to nail them with powerful moves. The combination of Hydro Pump, Ice Beam, Grass Knot and Focus Blast is very difficult to switch into, meaning a good prediction plus SR can remove an opponent from play. This is not even accounting Choice Specs, which I have yet to use (I need that speed). However, if you can fit Specspour on your team, have fun blasting everything with Hydro Pump, preferably Torrent bosted too! I seriously don't know why people aren't using at least one of the Simis that often. Simipour's niche is definitely that speed (don't attempt a physical set, as Floatzel does that better) and has the best balance between power and speed to deluge your opponents with strong Water attacks, which Samurott, Seismitoad, Gorebyss and Ludicolo lack right off the bat. Not having Sawsbuck ruin your day is nice too.

    More posts oncoming, or do I have to wedge this into my original post? It is informative, but I don't want it to be cluttered, not to mention unseen if it is posted a page back.
  7. WhiteDMist

    WhiteDMist PU! We don't stink though!
    is a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Team Rater Alumnus

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    Alright, we are pretty close to the end of this month; that means it's nearing the end of this round of the Dark Horse Project! This is the time to start posting your Ladder standings and answer some of the questions. Let's make this first round a great learning opportunity and then start fresh in March!

    How did you choose your Dark Horse Pokemon for this project? What lead you to choose the Pokemon you did? Did you have regrets or were you happy with your selection?


    How did you go about building a team for your Dark Horse Pokemon? Which kinds of teammates did you consider? What factors contributed to the team you created?


    Do you think it is more difficult or less difficult to ladder with a Dark Horse Pokemon? Why? Does the element of surprise play a factor in your battles? Is it easier to fight with a "highly used"" team or with Pokemon that are less common?


    (For Hall of Fame members only) How did you reach the Hall of Fame? Was it easy or difficult? Did having a Dark Horse Pokemon on your team benefit you? What advice would you give to those laddering with Dark Horse Pokemon?


    (For Non-Hall of Fame members only) What was the most challenging aspect of this project? What did you learn the most from your experience with Dark Horse Pokemon? How has your learning from this project changed the way you battle?

    To everyone who's just joining us or hasn't started/stopped laddering, good luck! :toast:
  8. BossSauce

    BossSauce

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    Need to stop slacking off...

    Pokemon Showdown! Username: Apathetic Ramen
    Hall of Fame Standing:
    Dark Horse Pokemon Currently Working With:
    Simipour, Monferno
    Current Ladder Standing on Pokemon Showdown!: 1843 ± 81 (provisional)
  9. Punchshroom

    Punchshroom para is worse than sleep
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    Now for the upcoming posts I promised. WALL OF TEXT INCOMING!!!

    How did you go about building a team for your Dark Horse Pokemon? Which kinds of teammates did you consider? What factors contributed to the team you created?
    [​IMG]
    I tried Curse Muk first, which seemed pretty awesome at first what with Trick and Toxic immunity. However, the metagame is very unkind to it: if Golurk wasn't around, expect to meet a Psychic instead. Oftentimes you had to deal with both, not to mention Muk fails to hit hard without any boosts since it is defensively invested. CB Muk straight up owns most special threats one-on-one, ranging from Ludicolo, Eelektross, Regice, the Simis, Articuno...you see where I'm going with this, it is reminiscent to CB Snorlax of UU (who also has a Curse set analysis to boot). No setup needed, just good old fashion no-nonsense wrecking that my teammates appreciate. Poison Touch is icing on the cake, and Ice Punch poisoning foes is always hilarious to watch. Exeggutor can resists Muk's weaknesses, has Harvest Lum to absorb statuses such as burn or paralysis, and is a wrecking ball in his own right. Encore Liepard is thrown in there in case the Psychic threat goes out of hand. Since Muk wallbreaks so well, my cleanup crew consists of fast threats that sometimes lack the extra punch they need to be truly threatening, like Electrode and Rapidash.

    [​IMG]
    Sneasel had always fascinated me. Its dual STABs strike A LOT of the metagame for super effective damage. However, it's moves simply lack the strength to muscle through the tier as well as it could have. Sneasel's saving grace is its wondrous 115 base speed, outrageously high for an NFE, that allows it to outspeed threats such as Serperior, Tauros, Swoobat, Rapidash and what not, so I decide to put that to good use. A Choice Band is needed for maximum damage output that Sneasel sorely needs, and while being able to alternate STABs by using Life Orb can allow it to sweep, Sneasel often needs to switch out after KOing something almost immediately, and SR plus LO damage really stacks up. The CB allows its Pursuit to reach (*ahem*) noticeable levels of strength should the foe stay in, but it does ensure the demise of Gardevoir, Kadabra and Haunter, 3 of NU's trickiest pokemon, effortlessly. Ice Punch is also amazing, striking Braviary, Golurk, Rotom-S, Exeggutor, and many lesser threats hard. I also run Ice Shard to deal with speedy pokes like Swellow, Unburden Drifblim, Ninjask and Scarf Rotom-S, though it can be redundant with Sneasel's speed and isn't necessary. Low Kick can be considered in its place to trip up Rocks and Steels, but I felt this deviated from Sneasel's purpose on my team. Musharna is one of the few Dark-weak threats I cannot revenge kill without severe weakening, as unboosted Pursuit glances off its bulky hide, so it isn't too afraid of acquiring CM boosts. Punishment is easily my ace in the hole, scoring surprise KOs on greedy Musharna. This effectiveness at which it deals with Psychic- and Flying-types means Gurdurr is a natural teammate, and the primary reason I forgoed Low Kick on Sneasel. It also takes Bug and Rock attacks for Sneasel as well as lure Psychics to their doom, making Fighting types a natural partner for Sneasel to function, or rather function for. Hazard support is also appreciated, with Garbodor getting special mention due to its Fighting resistance. In this aspect, Sneasel works much like an assassin: get in on an oppurtune moment, kill the target, slip away unharmed to kill again. Coincidentally, it is vital for Sneasel to get the KO and not get "caught", just like a real assassin, with the consequences as equally disastrous for Sneasel. You could give SD Sneasel a go to utilize its great dual STABs, but considering its frailty and susceptibility to status, I find CB to be more effective.

    [​IMG] + [​IMG]<--REJECTED
    I started with the mindset that Beheeyem functioned best with Thunder Wave support, but isn't completely dependant on it thanks to Analytic. This is when I tested Stoutland as my 4th Dark Horse pokemon, using EBeast's Parashuffler set to paralyse most of the opponent's team. While Stoutland function okay at best, it is nigh impossible to paralyze everything the opponent has, and your efforts could easily be undone with a single use of Heal Bell/Aromatherapy, and it doesn't work on Golurk, one of Beheeyem's biggest and most common obstacles. It is also during this period that I discovered a way to use Beheeyem differently: Trick Room. While this should have been obvious due to Beheeyem's Trick Room sweeper-esque stats, there's more to it than that. Trick Room Beheeyem works much like Double Dancer, that is a pokemon with both a +2 offense boosting move and a +2 speed boosting move (Terrakion, Landorus, Groudon, Torterra are examples, all with Swords Dance and Rock Polish). How it works: if the opponent's team is focusing on defense, boost your power to overwhelm them with strong hits as they struggle to bring you down quickly due to their generally low offenses; if the opponent is using fast offense, boost your speed to outpace them and strike their generally low defenses before they can act. Beheeyem takes a slightly different approach to this: Analytic's boost is not as strong as Nasty Plot, but does not require setup; Beheeyem's method of outpacing the opponents is instead Trick Room. What this means is that Beheeyem can completely neglect its speed and focus on its bulk for extra Analytic boosted hits or set up Trick Room. The catch is that it can't abuse both traits at once, but that's a fair tradeoff for that kind of power. Despite this, Beheeyem still has problems with special walls and Dark types. What I needed was something to lure these pokemon and take them out without functioning purely as a lure. The answer: Nasty Plot Misdreavus. I send in Misdreavus on something it threatens/"walls", such as Sawk, Exeggutor, Pinsir or Golurk. They then switch to their special wall (Mantine, Regice, Lickilicky, subBU Braviary) to soak the hit, a Will-o-Wisp absorber (Camerupt, Rapidash, Swellow, Toxiced Zangoose) or straight to Skuntank (the other Dark-types aren't as common a switch-in). BAM Nasty Plot. Now they can't dick around as they either scramble around for a more appropriate switch-in or take me out as soon as possible. Against the former two, they will be weakened/KOed by boosted hits (+2 Ghost STAB isn't shabby in this metagame) while Missy uses her respectable bulk to take a hit in return. For the Dark-type (Skuntank), if I am healthy I go straight for the boosted Thunderbolt which will maim Skuntank hard, if I am weakened I can bring it down with Destiny Bond. Missy's ability to weaken/eliminate these threats make it a fantastic teammate for the space alien, allowing it to brutalize more opponents with little resistance.

    [​IMG] + [​IMG]
    In my Muk team, Rapidash did not work out so well, so I thought of another speedy threat to fill its shoes. Simisear seems the most viable replacement, but its coverage is not as great as Rapidash's. I felt Nasty Plot sets are a bit frail and cannot clean up too effectively as getting the boost safely isn't guaranteed. Choice Sets are also a deterrent thanks to the SR weakness, when I remembered its two cousins and see how well they performed if given a Choice item. I dismissed Simisage almost immediately as its coverage is the worst among the Simis, while Simipour's coverage is very well distributed. Water-Ice-Grass-Fighting coverage is better than Fire-Fighting-Grass-Hidden Power, and certainly much better than Grass-Fighting-Hidden Power-nothing left. So I gave Scarf Simipour a go. It wrecked ass in the very first two battles it had. Torrent Hydro Pump is no joke, and it certainly abuses it better than Samurott does thanks to its high speed. Speaking of speed, 101 is a very nice speed tier, able to revenge Charizard while preventing Sawsbuck and Raichu from totally owning you. It also outpaces Modest Ludicolo in Rain, meaning if you can revenge kill it you can make use of its own rain for terrifyingly strong Hydro Pumps. Surprising regular Scarfers such as Rotom and Pinsir as well as naturally faster pokemon such as Swellow and Tauros is pretty neat too. As Simipour was recently tested, I have yet to come up with amazing teammates for it yet, but Muk and Simipour do work well together. Rocks, Grounds, and Steels can be deluged by Simipour, while Grass types and sometimes specially oriented Electrics are greeted by Muk with its infamous (death) hug.

    Do you think it is more difficult or less difficult to ladder with a Dark Horse Pokemon? Why? Does the element of surprise play a factor in your battles? Is it easier to fight with a "highly used"" team or with Pokemon that are less common?
    Really, the problem doesn't lie in the Dark Horses themselves, but rather I can't use S-Rank pokemon alongside them: Sawk being the big one, as he and Muk can weaken each other's counters and checks and would certainly love Sneasel's sniping abilities. Yes, the surprise definitely helps. People don't expect Muk to hit as hard as it does; they expect Nasty Plot Simipour as oppose to Choiced variants and feel confident enough to stay in; people recognize that Sneasel is lacking in power but do not realize this power is just enough for the job (usually). For the last question, it really depends on the skill of the player. If a good player is using S-Rank mons to their fullest potential, I'm in for a rough time, but that by no means makes the match unwinnable or even one-sided. It goes without saying that you need skill if you intend for a Dark Horse team to succeed against the big boys.

    How did you reach the Hall of Fame? Was it easy or difficult? Did having a Dark Horse Pokemon on your team benefit you? What advice would you give to those laddering with Dark Horse Pokemon?
    It was kind of rough the first few times as I tried to familiarize myself with these pokemon, and ultimately I discovered their best/notable niches and even found some awesome partners for them. Unfortunately, my first failures essentially ensures I would not get to the higher rankings without sheer grinding, but I had a lot of fun with these underdogs and they certainly got their chance to shine as I watched them grow to earn their rightful place in this metagame. If you're going to try a Dark Horse pokemon, be sure to utilise the pokemon's best (and unique) attributes so that they would not be overshadowed by more popular pokemon (Though if you decide to stick with say, Kricketune, lord help you.).

    Also Riolu Dark Horse users, how are you doing? I hope you're not having too hard a time with our controversial little jackal buddy. Wish you all the best of luck, and perhaps even surpass me to find some niche Riolu has that I overlooked! :D
  10. michael209

    michael209

    Joined:
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    Pokemon Showdown! Username: Mikkey
    Hall of Fame Standing:
    Dark Horse Pokemon Currently Working With:

    Simipour (M) @ Petaya Berry
    Trait: Gluttony
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Taunt
    - Hydro Pump
    - Ice Beam
    - Grass Knot

    and

    Camerupt (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Solid Rock
    EVs: 248 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SDef / 4 Spd
    Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
    - Stealth Rock
    - Earthquake
    - Rock Slide
    - Roar

    Current Ladder Standing on Pokemon Showdown!:
    nu 1785 83 1923 ± 98 (provisional) 16 3 0

    1923 +/- 98
  11. FireMage

    FireMage Say Goodnight!
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    I'll be doing an update to the hall of fame on the 28th (i'll do one now) If you do make it into the hall of fame by then, VM me and I'll add you as soon as I see it (or closely thereafter)


    Still post your thoughts on your dark horse Pokémon!
  12. michael209

    michael209

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    Ok so I ended up with Silver, could've been better but I'm happy :)

    I chose Camerupt because he's a boss and I got to be on the Camerupts for NUPL.
    Show Hide
    Camerupt (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Solid Rock
    EVs: 248 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SDef / 4 Spd
    Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
    - Stealth Rock
    - Earthquake
    - Rock Slide
    - Roar


    The specially defensive sets let me counter threats such as Zebstrika, Raichu, Rotom-S/F, Special Eelecktross, Butterfree, Musharna as well as many others. Switching in to any of the aforementioned Pokemon gives me an opportunity to set up SR. However, I don't like leading off with this Pokemon due to the amount of Golem/Regirock/Golurk that lead off teams. This is where my next Poke came in!

    Show Hide
    Simipour (M) @ Petaya Berry
    Trait: Gluttony
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Taunt
    - Hydro Pump
    - Ice Beam
    - Grass Knot


    So this is a pseudo-Special Samurott, just frailer but lots faster. It lets me taunt possible things such as lead Golem, Alomomola etc and then this little guy takes advantage of his gluttony to eat the Petaya at 50%. He's actually pretty powerful and acts as a great wallbreaker at +1 SAtk. Some changes could be opting for LO but I feel that Petaya was more effective.

    The rest of my team included Weezing, Gardevoir, Swellow and Skuntank.


    EDIT: i'm gonna try this again with 5 very uncommon pokes now
    Here's the team

    Show Hide
    Audino (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Regenerator
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 SDef / 4 Spd
    Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
    - Wish
    - Protect
    - Heal Bell
    - Toxic

    Gothorita (F) @ Eviolite
    Trait: Shadow Tag
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spd
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Psychic
    - Grass Knot
    - Rest
    - Calm Mind

    Shuckle (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Contrary
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Stealth Rock
    - Rest
    - Shell Smash
    - Power Split

    Eelektross (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 SDef / 4 Spd
    Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
    - Roar
    - Rest
    - Sleep Talk
    - Dragon Tail

    Staryu @ Eviolite
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SAtk
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Rest
    - Rapid Spin
    - Scald
    - Thunder Wave

    Pineco (F) @ Berry Juice
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs:
    Hardy Nature
    - Toxic Spikes
    - Spikes
    - Rapid Spin
    - Pain Split


    Under "Mikky"
  13. Lolk

    Lolk you can't stop the beat
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    I feel like most of the pokemon chosen for this project have already proven how they can be effective and impact the NU tier. Just a suggestion for next time, but I think it would be more interesting if the percentage requirement was lowered or if we used just E-rank pokemon according the NU Viability Ranking. As a viewer, I don't feel I learned much of what the true potential NU has to offer. Don't get me wrong, I love this idea and think it is awesome, but I think the participants only covered the "dimmed" horses and left the true dark horses to remain unused.
  14. JirachiCelebiMew

    JirachiCelebiMew

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    The thing is, the usage cut-off is the tiering cut-off point of 3.41%. As a Dark Horse, we simply want lesser used Pokemon to be brought into the spotlight; this project as done that already. If someone wants to use an E-Rank Pokemon as their Dark Horse, then they can feel free to do so; some people don't want to be force to use a Pokemon that has been decisively considered as a liability for most teams. Remember, even a "dim" horse is darker than one in the spotlight!
    Credit to WhiteDMist
  15. Lolk

    Lolk you can't stop the beat
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    Alright, I understand. I guess the term dark horse just stuck in my mind as a pokemon that has never seen the spotlight before. I was just confused because pokemon like camerupt and duosion on people's teams didn't seem to me like venturing into dark water. They both have already proven to be able to function greatly in the tier so i didnt really understand the point. I guess I saw it more as an opening experience full of discovery and less as a competition.
  16. speed ghilliesniper

    speed ghilliesniper

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    I'll go in on this too, give me banana face.
    Pokemon Showdown! Username: speedyg
    Hall of Fame Standing: None
    Dark Horse Pokemon Currently Working With: Tropius
    Current Ladder Standing on Pokemon Showdown!: None
  17. BossSauce

    BossSauce

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    fuck mawile, useless pos >.> Never gets a chance to set up, fragile as hell, and defensive sets don't even wall half the things they're supposed to.
  18. Ryanor

    Ryanor

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    Dec 22, 2010
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    When we can start with February stats?
  19. WhiteDMist

    WhiteDMist PU! We don't stink though!
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    Ok, so this first round of Dark Horse is over! Congratulations to all those who made it onto the Hall of Fame! Was hoping JCM would do this.
    Here are this month's usage stats. Once again, anything with usage of 3.41% or lower can be used as your Dark Horse(s). No S-rank Pokemon and no more than 2 A-rank Pokemon on your teams. Let's get at it!
  20. Ryanor

    Ryanor

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    Pokemon Showdown! Username: Ogren
    Hall of Fame Standing: Bronze class
    Dark Horse Pokemon Currently Working With: Simisear, Frillish and Ursaring.
    Current Ladder Standing on Pokemon Showdown!: 1852 ± 73 | 30 - 6 - 0

    Simisear (open)
    Simisear @ Petaya Berry
    Trait: Blaze
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Substitute
    - Fire Blast
    - Grass Knot
    - Hidden Power [Rock]
  21. Ashley11

    Ashley11

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2011
    Messages:
    337
    Pokemon Showdown! Username: Cookie Fight
    Hall of Fame Standing: Should be silver?
    Dark Horse Pokemon Currently Working With: Rampardos and Combusken
    Current Ladder Standing on Pokemon Showdown!: 1935 ± 101

    How did you choose your Dark Horse Pokemon for this project? What lead you to choose the Pokemon you did? Did you have regrets or were you happy with your selection? Well, I wanted to use Rampardos from the start because I thought it had some nice sets that could really work. It had Sheer Force and Mold Breaker, two great abilities, and rock polish to remedy its bad speed. After a while i decided to try Lurepardos with T-Bolt, Fire Blast, Focus Blast, and Head Smash, and it worked great as well, luring things like alomomola in and ko'ing it with t-bolt.

    Combusken Just fitted in in the end. It was overall great. I used the Special Set because I honestly like taht one a lot better than the SD set. It worked just fine.

    I have no regrets at all for the pokemon I chose, and I learned a lot about them. Rampardos is GREAT and I honestly expected it to be just average, but it exceeded my expectations. As for Combusken, it was almost just as good. It got me some nice comback wins and I am overalll happy with my choices. :D


    How did you go about building a team for your Dark Horse Pokemon? Which kinds of teammates did you consider? What factors contributed to the team you created? I tried to find all of my Dark Horse's Counters or Checks, and then found pokemon that eliminates its counters. I used Misdreavus to help counter the fighting type priority moves and scarf sawk for example.


    Do you think it is more difficult or less difficult to ladder with a Dark Horse Pokemon? Why? Does the element of surprise play a factor in your battles? Is it easier to fight with a "highly used"" team or with Pokemon that are less common?
    It honestly depends on what dark horse pokemon it is. For example, it was really easy building a team and laddering with Combusken and Rampardos. In fact, I went undefeated with my team to get where I am. It was actually EASIER with Rampardos and Combusken, because no one really prepares for the sets and stuff since they arent used to often. As for the last part of the question, it depends on the player. I cant really say either one because i faced some terrible players with highly used teams and some good players with a less common team. It depends on the Player.

    If you could rate your Dark Horse Pokemon from one to ten, what would you rate it?
    I would give Rampardos a 10. Yeah a 10. It is one of the most succesful pokemon i have used and it just does its job, and then some. In fact, there was not ONE match in which it didnt kill any pokemon. It at least helped me in some way each match. The special set is a big surprise to people and catches them off guard giving me the avantage of surprise. It is GREAT.

    As for combusken, I would give it an 8. I love it, it gives my team the speed I need, which makes me very happy. It did its job, revenge killing and killing in general, and its a juggernaut. I only give it an 8 though because the misses really make me sad. Sure they are powerful moves, Fire Blast and Focus Blast, but I hate that it misses when it matters most. Its overall a great pokemon.


    Edit:Can we make another profile and do this again with different Dark Horses if we already completed the challenge once?

    In case we can, Here is my second profile.

    Pokemon Showdown! Username: Super Swanna
    Hall of Fame Standing: N/A
    Dark Horse Pokemon Currently Working With: Swanna, Scraggy, and Metang
    Current Ladder Standing on Pokemon Showdown!: 1802 ± 103 (I was so close to 1850 and then i lost one match and im back at this)
  22. ZandgaiaX

    ZandgaiaX

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2009
    Messages:
    564
    Pokemon Showdown! Username: HubaHuba
    Hall of Fame Standing: None
    Dark Horse Pokemon Currently Working With: Hypno, Seadra, Leafeon, Stunfisk
    Current Ladder Standing on Pokemon Showdown!: None

    Whilst Raichu is what I consider 'average', leafeon did very well: being a check to exeggutor, being capable of wish-passing and being a great wall despite it's bug-weakness (i.e. being weak to pinsir)
  23. WhiteDMist

    WhiteDMist PU! We don't stink though!
    is a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Team Rater Alumnus

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2010
    Messages:
    1,042
    Pokemon Showdown! Username: WhiteDHorse
    Hall of Fame Standing: N/A
    Dark Horse Pokemon Currently Working With: Rotom-F, Metang, Magmar
    Current Ladder Standing on Pokemon Showdown!: N/A
  24. ZestyArmadillo

    ZestyArmadillo

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2012
    Messages:
    8
    Pokemon Showdown! Username: Bearable
    Hall of Fame Standing: N/A
    Dark Horse Pokemon Currently Working With: Ursaring
    Current Ladder Standing on Pokemon Showdown!: 11-3 | 1546

    Current Set:
    Show Hide
    [​IMG]
    Ursaring @ Flame Orb
    Trait: Guts
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Facade
    - Close Combat
    - Crunch
    - Swords Dance


    So far, Ursaring is a monster. If you get it in safely, something's going to die. This thing freaking 2HKO's Alomomola.
  25. Hollywood

    Hollywood she's thin, she's blonde, she says "wow" a lot
    is a Tutoris a member of the Site Staffis a Battle Server Administratoris a Super Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Smogon IRC SOPis a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Smogon Media Contributor
    Other Metas Leader

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2012
    Messages:
    3,845
    Pokemon Showdown Username: T37
    Hall of Fame Standing: Platinum
    Dark Horse Pokemon: Throh
    Current Ladder Standing on PS!: 2000+/-99

    Screenshot of my ladder ranking:
    Show Hide
    [​IMG]

    Also, in case my puush gets deleted:

    10 TheBlueDitto: 1946 | 89.4 | 2061 ± 82
    11 arnom: 1932 | 88.7 | 2041 ± 78
    12 T37: 1931 | 85.5 | 2000 ± 99
    13 dwib: 1923 | 86.2 | 1976 ± 38
    14 Kanon de Gêmeos: 1923 | 88.1 | 2027 ± 73


    I guess I completed the challenge! It's really neat being able to make teams so much better now than what I used to. It's also nice to do well on the ladder with Pokemon that aren't the cream of the crop in NU.

    Questions:
    Show Hide

    How did you choose your Dark Horse Pokemon for this project? What lead you to choose the Pokemon you did? Did you have regrets or were you happy with your selection?

    My Dark Horse Pokemon, Throh, was frankly an easy choice. I remembered looking through the usage statistics and trying to find something that wasn't blatantly outclassed by something else in the tier. I came upon Throh, a Pokemon that I rarely ever see in the tier but always struggle to defeat when I do face it. I immediately knew that this Pokemon had potential. On top of that, playing with Throh promoted a more defensive playstyle, while I am traditionally a much more offensive player. That said, I wanted to test it out to see how it would work.

    I definitely have no regrets in my choice. While many games I found myself not even needing to use Throh, there were some where it single-handedly (and effortlessly) won me the match.


    How did you go about building a team for your Dark Horse Pokemon? Which kinds of teammates did you consider? What factors contributed to the team you created?

    I knew straight away after choosing Throh that I wanted to use the Bulk Up/Circle Throw/Resttalk set. This set really appreciated hazards to work, so I immediately chose a new drop to the tier, Roselia, to see how it would do. I also knew I needed a Stealth Rock user, but since most of the best Stealth Rock users are A-rank, I held off on choosing one. After this, I knew I wanted a spinblocker, so I chose Misdreavus since it is easily the most reliable spinblocker in the tier for more defensive teams. I also needed some way to handle opposing ghost-types since Throh was mono-attacking, so I added Skuntank to provide crucial Pursuit trapping support. I needed a fail-safe in case Throh wasn't going to be able to set up, so I added in Pinsir as a late game cleaner since a) I had the hazard support to help make this happen and b) it was B-rank. This allowed me to use my second A-rank spot on my favorite Stealth Rock user, Golem.


    Do you think it is more difficult or less difficult to ladder with a Dark Horse Pokemon? Why? Does the element of surprise play a factor in your battles? Is it easier to fight with a "highly used"" team or with Pokemon that are less common?

    Ironically, in a sense, it's both easier and more difficult at the same time. The thing that makes it easier is that by using lesser-used Pokemon, you have the advantage of the opponent not immediately know what your sets are. The disadvantage is that more commonly used Pokemon are more commonly used for a reason; they're really good at what they do. What made the challenge more difficult was not being able to use more than two A-ranked Pokemon or any S-ranked Pokemon. However, looking back at it, I don't know that this team would have been as successful if I would have used more common Pokemon. In the end, I'm neutral on this question.


    How did you reach the Hall of Fame? Was it easy or difficult? Did having a Dark Horse Pokemon on your team benefit you? What advice would you give to those laddering with Dark Horse Pokemon?

    I reached the Hall of Fame the same way I normally approach laddering; I played a few matches, and then I stopped. I would come back the next day or some time later, play a few matches, and then stop again. I find tilting to be my major downfall when laddering, so I avoid it at all costs.

    It was easy to reach the Hall of Fame in that it didn't take me many games to do so, but it was really difficult because I found myself on edge pretty much all the time. My team, while good enough to get me here, still had some exploitable flaws. If I noticed that they were going to be exploited, I often panicked and didn't know what to do. In the end though, I just stopped and assessed the situation and tried to make it through the match.

    Having a Dark Horse on the team benefited me immensely. Throh was easily the all-star of the team. I worried when I slapped Pinsir on the team that it was going to outshine Throh, but this was hardly the case at all. I think I may have used Pinsir to clean up once, and it was because of an unfortunate crit on my Throh. That said though, the reason why Throh did so well for me is because the team was built around him rather than built with him tossed into the mix.

    I think the best advice I could give to the other participants would be simply to build your team with your Dark Horse Pokemon in mind. Ignoring it and just throwing it on to your team so that it qualifies as a Dark Horse team is going to end badly (I did this during last month's challenge, and I rage-quit like three different times). Also, use your two A-rank slots wisely. While I see other people made it on to the leaderboard with nothing but Dark Horse Pokemon (which is a HUGE deal imo), that's something that I personally would not be able to accomplish. The two A-rank slots are going to be able to do major work for your team, so keep that in mind as well while you are teambuilding.


    Team Import:
    Show Hide
    Roselia @ Eviolite
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 SAtk / 252 SDef
    Calm Nature
    - Giga Drain
    - Sludge Bomb
    - Spikes
    - Rest

    Misdreavus @ Eviolite
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 228 Def / 28 Spd
    Bold Nature
    - Shadow Ball
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Taunt
    - Pain Split

    Throh (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Guts
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SDef
    Careful Nature
    - Bulk Up
    - Circle Throw
    - Rest
    - Sleep Talk

    Skuntank @ Black Sludge
    Trait: Aftermath
    EVs: 252 Atk / 220 SDef / 36 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Crunch
    - Pursuit
    - Sucker Punch
    - Taunt

    Golem @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Stealth Rock
    - Earthquake
    - Rock Blast
    - Sucker Punch

    Pinsir @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Moxie
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    - X-Scissor
    - Close Combat
    - Earthquake
    - Stone Edge

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