1. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.
  2. New to the forums? Check out our Mentorship Program!
    Our mentors will answer your questions and help you become a part of the community!

The Dark Horse Project

Discussion in 'BW OU' started by ginganinja, Nov 1, 2012.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Trinitrotoluene

    Trinitrotoluene ♪~ i don't want to know what she did; she is not who i am ~♪
    is a Tutoris a Community Contributoris a Team Rater Alumnus
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2010
    Messages:
    1,116
    Pokémon Showdown! username: Madame Gothitelle
    Hall of Fame Standing: Not there just yet.
    Dark Horse Pokémon: Gothitelle (OBVIOUSLY)
    Current Ladder Standing on Pokémon Showdown!: ACRE: 1657; Glicko2: 1776 ± 84

    Current thoughts: Gothitelle is a very powerful force in and out of weather. It supports so many sweepers efficiently, and I'm constantly left wondering why people don't use it more often. I'm considering starting with a new alt (Mistress Gothitelle) to see how far I can go, since a few losses near the beginning of my run really ruined my climb.
  2. Asek

    Asek Mirror my malady, Transfer my tragedy
    is a Team Rater Alumnus
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2012
    Messages:
    571
    Pokémon Showdown! username: TGK
    Hall of Fame Standing: nip
    Dark Horse Pokémon: Hippowdon
    Current Ladder Standing on Pokémon Showdown!: 1899 GLICKO2
    PROFFESIONALLL EDIT: Hail sucks and so does hax using hippowdon from now on with fresh alt
  3. The QWAZ

    The QWAZ

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2012
    Messages:
    527
    Pokemon showdown username: Finlay
    hall of fame standing lol nope
    Dark horse pokemon Kingdra.
    current ladder standing nip
  4. Temp V1

    Temp V1 Movin' at the speed of life and I can't slow down

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2012
    Messages:
    115
    Don't know how much time I'll have to do this, but I'll try to get bronze at least.

    Pokemon Showdown! Username: Temp X2
    Dark Horse Pokemon: Landorus-T
    Screenshot of Top 100 Ladder Ranking: 89
    Current Ladder Standing on Pokemon Showdown!: 2007



    Proof of Bronze (open)

    [​IMG]


    How did you choose your Dark Horse Pokemon for this project? What lead you to choose the Pokemon you did? Did you have regrets or were you happy with your selection?

    Well a little while before I stopped playing I was intrigued by the idea of a new core for a balance/bulky offense team; Defensive Landorus-T and Specially Defensive Rotom-W, so I figured I might as well try to test out this core and the project gave me a chance to do just that. I was very happy with Landorus-T's performance throughout my laddering, and I'll probably write an RMT once my exams are over to provide a little more insight into this.


    How did you go about building a team for your Dark Horse Pokemon? Which kinds of teammates did you consider? What factors contributed to the team you created?

    I usually pride myself on building quality teams, although this one was a little less thought through. I'm still not entirely happy with the entire team, but that just indicates how far I could take this team. Basically I just started building around Rotom and Landorus covering weaknesses and adding checks to anything I needed, team took less than 5 minutes to make, so its quite clear why theres room for improvement. Still, it was enough to get bronze in a bit under two hours, about the same time as last DHP.

    Do you think it is more difficult or less difficult to ladder with a Dark Horse Pokemon? Why? Does the element of surprise play a factor in your battles? Is it easier to fight with a "highly used"" team or with Pokemon that are less common?

    It was quite easy in this case, because although the team wasn't incredibly thoughtful, it really was very easy to use, and it made outplaying my opponents very easy. I won't post the full team until a bit later today probably, but just for reference its a weatherless balance team. Because of this laddering was once again quite easy, its never something I have trouble with, so I can't really ever say its difficult, getting to the top 10 on the other hand, that would be a bit more fun ;) Using Landorus-T doesn't really bring all that much surprise factor, however 3 other members of my team had many-a-people going 'dafuck', so while it wasn't my horse that caused surprise, my team created plenty.


    (For Hall of Fame members only) How did you reach the Hall of Fame? Was it easy or difficult? Did having a Dark Horse Pokemon on your team benefit you? What advice would you give to those laddering with Dark Horse Pokemon?

    Well once again, it was very easy, I think possibly in future the reqs should be a little higher, I know I only achieved bronze, but I did it a little too easily in my mind, still if its judged to be at an adequate level I'm happy with that :) As already stated, having Landorus-T was incredibly useful, because he played his role as well, and so much better, than I could have hoped, creating a truly threatening mon. This guy may be a Dark Horse this month, but I sort of doubt he will be in the future, and if he is, I'll be going for Plat next time ;)

    Set I used:

    [​IMG]
    Landorus-Therian @ Leftovers
    Trait: Intimidate
    EVs: 200 HP / 244 Def / 64 Atk
    Adamant Nature
    - U-turn
    - Earthquake
    - Stealth Rock
    - Sleep Talk
  5. exotic

    exotic

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2012
    Messages:
    99
    Pokemon Showdown! Username: exotic2
    Dark Horse Pokemon: bronzong, kingdra, kabutops
    Screenshot of Top 100 Ladder Ranking: N/A
    Current Ladder Standing on Pokemon Showdown!: 1000
  6. TGMD

    TGMD +Biosci: you both gave me crabs
    is a Tutoris a Battle Server Moderatoris a Team Rater Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
    Tournament Winner

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2011
    Messages:
    977
    First to the finish line! Updated OP with screenshot and rank. I'll do the discussion questions later.
  7. Doughboy

    Doughboy house of champions
    is a Community Contributor Alumnus
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2011
    Messages:
    1,356
    Pokemon Showdown! Username: there's a mole
    Hall of Fame Standing:
    Dark Horse Pokemon Currently Working With: Sandslash
    Current Ladder Standing on Pokemon Showdown!:
  8. Temp V1

    Temp V1 Movin' at the speed of life and I can't slow down

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2012
    Messages:
    115
    Finished it with a bronze, would have gone for higher, but I'm not really supposed to be playing anyway. Was fun once again, thanks for hosting guys :)

    Edited OP with screenie, will answer questions in a day or two, when I get time.
  9. Pocket

    Pocket Bringing the Afro to Space
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnus
    Doubles Co-Leader

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2004
    Messages:
    8,555
    rofl, the HoF is already filling up xD. Thanks, Doom for coming for another round (but I fully expect you to use another Dark Horse once you obtain Grand Masters >:D) and Temp V1 for putting a little of his time for making this project awesome!
  10. ClubbingSealCub

    ClubbingSealCub

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2012
    Messages:
    390
    Pokemon Showdown! Username: TAIYOOOOOOOOOOOOH
    Dark Horse Pokemon: Earth Maiden Litagant
    Screenshot of Top 100 Ladder Ranking: N/A
    Current Ladder Standing on Pokemon Showdown!: 1580, taking a small break

    EDIT: Lilligant is a boss. Seriously. Whoever doesn't use her is missing out.
  11. Electrolyte

    Electrolyte For every king that died, oh, they would crown another
    is an official Team Rateris a Contributor to Smogonis a Battle Server Moderator
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2012
    Messages:
    1,925
    Pokemon Showdown! Username: everyotheralttaken
    Dark Horse Pokemon: Landorus-T and Cobalion
    Screenshot of Top 100 ladder ranking: N/A
    Current Ladder Standing on Pokemon Showdown!: N/A

    I'm just going to use my last team, which, now that Lando-T fits in the rules, now has 2 Dark Horses, yay
  12. NixHex

    NixHex A new vice president erryonce in a while to keep me busy
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Pokemon Researcheris a Contributor to Smogonis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2009
    Messages:
    2,584
    Pokemon Showdown! Username: 311
    Dark Horse Pokemon: Victini
    Screenshot of Top 100 ladder ranking: N/A
    Current Ladder Standing on Pokemon Showdown!: 1605 ACRE / 1731 ± 89 (provisional) GLICKO 2

    So I decided to ditch Chandelure because it's just bad. Seriously, there's no winning with it. You either Scarf it, leaving the Sun / lucky Flash Fire predicts as the only way to boost your offense. Not only this, but you're adding yet ANOTHER SR weak Pokemon to your team. Or, you give it Specs and watch it get swept by tons of faster stuff (although if you can get a KO it's a sweet feeling). Chandelure just can't deliver without Shadow Tag. Anyway, I ended up replacing Chandelure with ScarfChomp and I'm just loving the results. He and TRtini do excellent work scrubbing the dirt off the floor late game. Here's my current Victini set, straight from ginganinja and whoever gave him the idea for the set:

    Victini @ Flame Plate
    [​IMG]
    Trait: Victory Star
    EVs: 252 Atk / 8 Def / 248 HP
    Brave Nature
    IVs: 0 Spd
    - V-create
    - Fusion Bolt
    - Final Gambit
    - Trick Room

    V-create in the sun OHKOes things most Pokemon could only dream of KOing. It has the potential to OHKO 252/252+ Chansey without Stealth Rock, while it's guaranteed with it. You're also guaranteed a 2HKO on resists like Latias and Jellicent. Those are just a few off the top of my head but they're a good example of the sort of walls it can break on its own.

    Here's an example of what I said earlier, ScarfChomp and Victini tearing up the court together. Every Pokemon played their part, even Venusaur who was a worthy sacrifice. I probably should have Outraged on Volcarona but I was paranoid about a Flame Body burn. Luckily, Victini didn't die to a crit Sludge Bomb, which won me the match
  13. Princess Bubblegum

    Princess Bubblegum

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2011
    Messages:
    2,987
    what the hell

    Pokemon Showdown! Username: Regipro
    Hall of Fame Standing:-
    Dark Horse Pokemon Currently Working With: Regirock
    Current Ladder Standing on Pokemon Showdown!: -
  14. DarkBlazeR

    DarkBlazeR

    Joined:
    May 20, 2009
    Messages:
    387
    Sure, why not?

    Pokemon Showdown! Username: Plasmatik
    Hall of Fame Standing: N/A
    Dark Horse Pokemon Currently Working With: Zapdos
    Current Ladder Standing on Pokemon Showdown!: 1000
  15. Phazon00

    Phazon00

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2012
    Messages:
    167
  16. Jukain

    Jukain fuck redew
    is a Smogon Media Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2011
    Messages:
    3,592
    goal for next month guys: better puns in the tags

    Pokemon Showdown! Username: sandy=deadwalk :(
    Hall of Fame Standing: zilch zero nada
    Dark Horse Pokemon Currently Working With: lilligant
    Current Ladder Standing: 1000

    my alt is because fuck hurricanes boardwalks are fun

    move over venusaur
  17. alkinesthetase

    alkinesthetase <@dtc> every day with alk is a bad day
    is a Smogon IRC SOp Alumnus

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2010
    Messages:
    825
    i think i can agree with the rest of the team that clearly this is our absolute maximum priority for next month OP

    also, DAMN are there a lot of people using landorus-T! temp made it before any others with that pokemon but will he hold it for the rest of the month? WHO KNOWS!?
  18. GatoDelFuego

    GatoDelFuego The little hand says it's time to rock and roll
    is a Smogon Media Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Mentor

    Joined:
    May 29, 2011
    Messages:
    2,811
    Can I sign up for this concurrently with an alt I made for Defense of the Titans project, and only started laddering this morning?
  19. alkinesthetase

    alkinesthetase <@dtc> every day with alk is a bad day
    is a Smogon IRC SOp Alumnus

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2010
    Messages:
    825
    hmm so you mean your team on that alt will qualify for both alexwolf's project and ours?

    sure, i don't see why not
  20. GatoDelFuego

    GatoDelFuego The little hand says it's time to rock and roll
    is a Smogon Media Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Mentor

    Joined:
    May 29, 2011
    Messages:
    2,811
    You betcha.

    Pokemon Showdown! Username: GatoDelFuego
    Hall of Fame Standing: Bronze
    Dark Horse Pokemon Currently Working With: Amoongus, Slowbro (why change things?)
    Current Ladder Standing: 1914 ACRE, 2043 Glicko

    Bronze reqs:
    Show Hide
    [​IMG][​IMG]


    The team used:
    Show Hide
    Tyranitar (F) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Sand Stream
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    - Crunch
    - Pursuit
    - Superpower
    - Stone Edge

    Heatran (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 SDef / 8 Spd
    Calm Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Stealth Rock
    - Lava Plume
    - Toxic
    - Roar

    Slowbro (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Regenerator
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SAtk
    Bold Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Scald
    - Psychic
    - Slack Off
    - Toxic

    Amoonguss (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Regenerator
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 SAtk / 252 SDef
    Calm Nature
    - Spore
    - Clear Smog
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Giga Drain

    Gliscor (F) @ Toxic Orb
    Trait: Poison Heal
    EVs: 252 HP / 184 Def / 72 Spd
    Impish Nature
    - Earthquake
    - Substitute
    - Toxic
    - Protect

    Forretress (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
    Relaxed Nature
    IVs: 2 Spd
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Volt Switch
    - Rapid Spin
    - Spikes


    How did you choose your Dark Horse Pokemon for this project? Amoonguss and Slowbro form one of the best defensive cores around, focusing on regenerating off damage caused and checking a large number of the metagame through an ample number of resistances. The only physical pokemon that will ever break Slowbro in particular is...well, I dunno, Electivire? Unbreakable, I say. At any rate, when I decided the team to use, only these two came to mind. It's a crime that none of them are at even 4% in usage, because they are simply amazing.

    How did you go about building a team for your Dark Horse Pokemon? As genesect powers its way through this core, heatran was absolutely essential. Forretress provided spikes and rapid spin, and Gliscor was able to sometimes win games by himself through pure toxic stall. Proving once again that rain and sun were completely broken, the only way to check both of them is to use a weather inducer of your own--in my case, tyranitar. As the team's core focuses around regenerator and plenty of switches, hazards proved to be the single most important factor in every match. Heck, with hazards up, I'm pretty sure the combo of Heatra + Slowbro + Amoongus + Gliscor could take on everything.

    Do you think it is more difficult or less difficult to ladder with a Dark Horse Pokemon? Why? I do believe that it is easier to ladder with a dark horse pokemon. When people take teambuilding into account, they often focus on things relevant in the top 20. While it's impossible to cover everything, having a lower usage pokemon increases the chance that your opponent will be unprepared for its actions--especially when it's a pokemon that should be in the top 20, just unnoticed.

    How did you reach the Hall of Fame? As I sped to the top in very few matches, I'm not sure how to respond. I think speed was a big factor, especially abusing the bonus pool rush to get to a high level, where I found mostly cookie-cutter top 20 pokemon teams and rain stall teams, both of which were able to be beaten very easily by my core. I'm sure people often, when seeing amoonguss come out, thought "crap, I didn't plan for this, what can I do to take that thing down?". I feel like it's easier to use a DH defensive pokemon over an offensive one, as most pokemon universally known are offensive this generation.
  21. Temp V1

    Temp V1 Movin' at the speed of life and I can't slow down

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2012
    Messages:
    115
    Lol I won't be holding it for more than a few hours I assume, its really too good to be a real dark horse, and so I'll assume it'll be quite popular. Should end up in Gold at the very least ;p

    EDIT: Questions now in OP
  22. Ithilanor

    Ithilanor

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2010
    Messages:
    240
    Pokemon Showdown! Username: Ninja Fish
    Hall of Fame Standing: None
    Dark Horse Pokemon Currently Working With: Zoroark, Kingdra, Roserade
    Current Ladder Standing on Pokemon Showdown!: Before ladder reset: 1672/85. OU suspect: 1648/216.
  23. Pocket

    Pocket Bringing the Afro to Space
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnus
    Doubles Co-Leader

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2004
    Messages:
    8,555
    Thank you guys for updating your registration with your Discussion Response - much appreciated! It's also nice to see how GatoDelFuego's team cleared both Defensive Titans and Dark Horse Challenge :D

    Phazon00, thanks for the replays! I encourage others to share some awesome replays as well, it's nice to further enhance the HoF, as well as great OU Hub material!

    Phazon00, as for your team, may I suggest a Baton Pass Mew? I think a Calm Mind or even Rock Polish would be an awesome asset to your CM Latias or Sheer Force Nidoking. Not guaranteeing that it will be better than stallbreaker Mew, but definitely worth a try imo. Something along the lines of Baton Pass - Taunt - Softboiled - Calm Mind or Rock Polish :d
  24. gengarsnemisis

    gengarsnemisis

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2011
    Messages:
    130
    Pokémon Showdown! username: killer moth
    Hall of Fame Standing: none
    Dark Horse Pokémon: Venomoth
    Current Ladder Standing on Pokémon Showdown!: 1964
    Such a fun pokemon :)
    Venomoth @ Leftovers
    Trait: Tinted Lens
    EVs: 252 HP / 4spa / 252 spd
    Timid Nature
    - Sleep Powder
    - Bug Buzz
    - Quiver Dance
    - Baton Pass
    Proof of Bronze:

    Show Hide
    [​IMG]

    How did you choose your Dark Horse Pokemon for this project? What lead you to choose the Pokemon you did? Did you have regrets or were you happy with your selection?
    I love messing around with baton pass, and I knew Venomoth has decent enough stats to be able to pull it off in OU.

    How did you go about building a team for your Dark Horse Pokemon? Which kinds of teammates did you consider? What factors contributed to the team you created?
    My team often changed throughout the process. But one thing I did learn is that Heatran and Keldeo are the best quiver dance receivers from Venomoth, bar none. The set I used for heatran was balloon, with hp grass,fire blast, dragon pulse, and earth power. Keldeo I used a standard calm mind set. Other great partners include, latios, latias, hydreigon, sash alakazam. Also not making your team completely dedicated to bp is vital.

    Do you think it is more difficult or less difficult to ladder with a Dark Horse Pokemon? Why? Does the element of surprise play a factor in your battles? Is it easier to fight with a "highly used"" team or with Pokemon that are less common?
    I think in some ways it can be easier. It's actually funny at time because newer players actually thought venomoth was a flying type lol...

    (For Hall of Fame members only) How did you reach the Hall of Fame? Was it easy or difficult? Did having a Dark Horse Pokemon on your team benefit you? What advice would you give to those laddering with Dark Horse Pokemon?
    It was easy but took a long time due to annoying sleep powder misses!!!!@!

    (For Non-Hall of Fame members only) What was the most challenging aspect of this project? What did you learn the most from your experience with Dark Horse Pokemon? How has your learning from this project changed the way you battle?
    That many pokemon are perfectly viable with the right team support.
  25. Molk

    Molk tfw zoroark
    is a Tutoris a member of the Site Staffis a Smogon IRC AOPis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    RU Leader

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2011
    Messages:
    3,284
    Pokémon Showdown! username: Metang 2 Gud
    Hall of Fame Standing: Platinum, none this month so far
    Dark Horse Pokémon: The Mighty Metang
    Current Ladder Standing on Pokémon Showdown!: 1000

    you wont get anywhere with Metang >:0 - Pocket
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)