Ladder The Dark Horse Project

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Hey guys. To clear things up, so far, I did not fullfill the requirements, my top ELO being 1395 atm.



I lost a bit of motivation after 2 games being... atrocious, for reasons such as Goomy's post and ladder sheaningans. However, I do believe this team is viable. Shoutout to Irish for helping a tad on building that team, and Guardian Neb/Ifritt for morale support.


How did you choose your Dark Horse Pokemon for this project?

So, at first, I tried to ladder with Seviper. I thought that, with the current metagame, Seviper could be a formidable sweeper thanks to speed control support, but things didn't go nice for the team. I then oriented to choose a new Dark Horse in Sliggoo, the reason being that I wanted to experiment a defensive hazard stack team for once, and that the gooey dragon just was a favorite mine too.


How did you go about building a team for your Dark Horse Pokemon?

After choosing Sliggoo, I instinctively turned to Ferroseed. Having a typing making it resistant or neutral to ice and fairy, physical bulk to handle non-fighting physical attacks aimed at Sliggoo that could harm it before it could use curse, it was just simply a no-brainer with my team composition.

The pair was nice, but it was obviously weak to two things at the moment. Mega Audino, and AV Hariyama that could wipe the floor with the pair. Hitmonchan was also a problem, to some extent, because it could spin spikes away. I then decided to slap a Mismagius in there, most noticeably the taunt variant. Able to will-o-wisp on switch, and then proceed to taunt and whittle down said pokemon, it proved to be invualuable to the team. It also blocked rapid spin, which was a very nice thing.

From that trio, I then noticed I lacked a proper wincon, since curse Sliggoo has the downside of being walled by fairies due to its monoattacking dragon stab attack. I chose to add Mega Audino, thus completing my 2 A choices for the team. Specifically, the bulky CM variant with wish. Able to slowly setup, defeat Malamar in 1v1, along with providing a much needed late game wincon, it singlehandedly won me games.

After those 4 choices, I then added two other PU 'mons, in Roselia (previously Abomasnow) and Solrock, to get some more resistances. Roselia also had a lure attack in Extransensory, to deal effectively with Weezing along with being able to clutch against Vileplume if the need was here, as spikes wasn't needed. As for Solrock, it not only gave me a Stealth Rock user, but also a needed check to Magmortar and Pyroar, able to somewhat reliably take both on and switch in their stab, along with Swellow. It also gave me a secondary will-o-wisp user, which is always good.


Do you think it is more difficult or less difficult to ladder with a Dark Horse Pokemon? Why?

Yes. Most specifically, the restrictions around the teambuilding, most notably, the A rank and 37% usage restriction. My team totaled 36% usage, being barely usable even though I was already using subpar choices. In 1000-1300 ladder, the restrictions aren't too present, but from 1300 to 1400, they were slowly being felt. The biggest problem was that, while 'high tier' teams can somewhat handle hax and lucky plays, this team couldn't for the simple reason that a crit usually settled a loss or a very bad position for me.


How did your Dark Horse Pokemon fit into your laddering experience?

Sliggoo was always a favorite of mine, as I used it to great efficiency in PU already. However, I usually used it in Balanced teams, and not defensive ones. Overall, this was rather fun to ladder, until the ~1350 ELO where constant crits and lost speed ties made it become more of a hassle, along with personnal misplays and chokes.


What was the most challenging aspect of this project?

Everything about it, to be fair. The teambuilding was intense and this team was the one I most invested on, as in, spent hours to tailor properly and to not fall in 'brainless' stall. The laddering required huge predictions and tinkering at times (Heavy Slam Golurk, for example), but those parts were decently fun. What was truly challenging, however, was to try to 'control' hax and secondary effects, always playing 3 steps ahead to not get into a poor situation, which proved impossible against 1400/1450 ELO players.


For those that want the team :

Gooey Dwaggie (Sliggoo) (M) @ Eviolite
Ability: Sap Sipper
EVs: 252 HP / 168 Def / 88 SpD
Careful Nature
- Curse
- Outrage
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

Spoopy Ghost (Mismagius) (F) @ Colbur Berry
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Taunt
- Hex
- Pain Split

Not A Ball (Ferroseed) (M) @ Eviolite
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 248 HP / 148 Def / 112 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Spikes
- Gyro Ball
- Leech Seed
- Thunder Wave

TUP TUP (Audino) (F) @ Audinite
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 208 Def / 48 SpA
Bold Nature
- Calm Mind
- Dazzling Gleam
- Wish
- Protect

Roselia @ Eviolite
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Extrasensory
- Giga Drain
- Synthesis
- Sludge Bomb

Praise the sun (Solrock) @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Morning Sun
- Will-O-Wisp
- Stone Edge


This post MIGHT get updated if I, somewhat, choose to resume laddering with the team before the deadline and, less than likely, get 1500 ELO.

Good luck everyone!
 

PrinceLucian

Banned deucer.
Hall of Fame ;)





Throh @ Leftovers
Ability: Guts
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Bulk Up
- Circle Throw

Liepard @ Choice Band
Ability: Limber
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- U-turn
- Knock Off
- Pursuit
- Seed Bomb

Garbodor @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Aftermath
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 248 HP / 204 Def / 56 Spe
Impish Nature
- Toxic Spikes
- Spikes
- Gunk Shot
- Rock Blast

Gourgeist-Super @ Choice Band
Ability: Frisk
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 232 HP / 252 Atk / 24 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Shadow Sneak
- Seed Bomb
- Rock Slide
- Explosion

Bronzor @ Eviolite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Psywave

Sliggoo @ Eviolite
Ability: Sap Sipper
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Muddy Water
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam


How did you choose your Dark Horse Pokemon for this project?
-
Ahh, to start with, there were so many amazing pokemon to choose for this project, and it wasnt that easy to choose the one im going with, so I gave it few days before deciding which one im going for. Later on, some of choices i liked were taken, so I had like 5 mons in mind left, one of them even being stunfisk. I had a very good experience with Throh in past, and recently ive been using banded liepard which i really,really liked so decided to go with that.

How did you go about building a team for your Dark Horse Pokemon?
-
Building process didnt take too long, altough options were kinda limiting to patch up the weaknesses flawlessly, but it took more time to finish up team with core and decide which kind of direction I wanted to go. Throh + Liepard were the 2 I started, I immediately added garbodor for spikes support since throh is great and bulky shuffler, it also absorbs toxic spikes for team and switches into priority that liepard doesnt like. After that I added gourgeist for spinblock and a great ground check, since liepard is forced out by steelix and some other rockers, as well as garbodor. I needed a stealth rock user, ice/fire/flying/water/special check for last 2, I also opted for a spinner and had wartortle in mind but in order to put all those mons I had to rechange the team, which i didnt want to. Whenever im at the end of the team, its usually never a 1 pokemon that will solve the problems, and its always the last core that changes up and patches the team together, unless you already had planned the great sinergy from beggining. Anyways, I went for bronzor which I was sceptical at first, but it ended up being so daamn good that id recommend it to Everyone for their rocker on DH. As i couldnt put lanturn for last, because team would have more usage than required, I decided on sliggo which is great special fire/water/electric check. Yea,team doesnt have electric block, but electric types were never a problem, while wallbreakers that come in ,cant do anything vs bronzor.
-To add some twist to the team, I made gourgeist a choice band set, which makes it somewhat decent late game cleaner, also lures things like zard/pyroar with rock slide, as well as scyther. Sliggo is specially offensive set, which reminds me a bit of AV lanturn, and i didnt want it to be setup bcz throh is one already.


Do you think it is more difficult or less difficult to ladder with a Dark Horse Pokemon? Why?
-
Nah, I think many pokemon under 2% usage have Great niches in this metagame and can shine on a decent team. I didnt put much effort in the team, but it utilizes what Throh can do very well. Altough I think theres some cool mons on low usage, its logical that using full dark horse team is harder than regular standard team with reliable mons. Element of surprize is imo always important, as most higher ladder ppl wont really expect pokemon like throh, articuno or even bronzor, and some of the sets im using (banded liepard/gourgeist) also surprizes people sometimes, as seed bomb from Pard can 2 KO defensive rhydon, while pursuit is also not really expected.

How did your Dark Horse Pokemon fit into your laddering experience?
-
Well, if peoples fighting answers are pokemon like weezing/garbodor,they are gonna have problems with throh, since some of its checks are easy to weaken earlier in match. Ive noticed people didnt prepare for it that much, its so bulky to take out with special sweeper, and after few bulk ups and hazards on field, its a win, especially with most reliable spinblocker in tier(despite running offensive set)

How did you reach the Hall of Fame?
-
It wasnt that hard, I wanted to have a nice record and played patiently with throh, since its mostly used late game. Just chill on ladder, Always Scout for sets instead of getting surprized killed by random scarf malamars and magmortars and complaining later, which isnt rare tbh. Last advice, BRONZOR. Seriously, this thing takes on so many threats its a crime not to try it, for dark horse at least, since it takes 0% usage and you can work on rest of team. I wouldnt rly recommend bronzor on serious balanced builds since its just walling things without offensive presence, but even there i can see it working well with right support. Shotouts Waters for popularizing this thing!
 
How did you choose your Dark Horse Pokemon for this project
-Well, I wanted something fat and gourgiest is the winner, Gave it willowisp to burn any physical threat (Really tried to avoid Guts H.yama), Leech seed, I sometimes would use it when I could predict a switch, or predict a sucker Punch for some hp, I've even Used it to force switches., Synthesis to just recover, and Seed bomb ( Wished I had shadow sneak ). Fun Mon, did his job, Hard to break, IMO a reliable Mon.

How did you go about building a team for your Dark Horse Pokemon?

Well, I was never the building type, I had a friend who I've been playing Pokemon with since...Man years back, He's LucianVega, I really couldn't have done it without the guy, He has always had patience with me, we spent sometime deciding what we were going to use until. I decided I wanted to use something similar to snorlax, and realized duh Munchlax, gave it eviolite and maxed its HP and SpDef, I'm a sucker for the curse/sleeptalk lax, So I tried to keep it as similar as possible, i usually run return for the bigger damage, but Vega insisted on the body slam and He was right, it has helped me with many upcoming threats, (Vivi, hitmonchan, magmor, etc,,) body slam itself 2hkos vivi and +1 hurricane does 0, so if I get the para it usually makes it a good day for munch :).

Thick fat Makes 2 of gourgiest weaknesses insignificant Ice and Fire, These 2 work together really nice, brings a smile to my face.


Stunfisk....

Needed a bird check, this was a tough one, I didn't know what to use until I realised this thing had static, Do I need to explain more? With HP And def evs, This guy made birds seem like flies, Really a underrated Mon that can do some damage.

Gave it discharge for para, because why not?
Earth power for weakened steelix and torkoal, etcetc

Toxic- I would usually predict a switch in and use it, was useful at times I suppose

Stealth rock- Rocks Rocks Rocks

l.pard

Man this thing can do some serious damage I wanted something that could trap ghosts for the reason being , it would be a problem if my lax can't sweep just because I can't hit it, and gourg has a ghost weakness also went with this thing and it did its job fluently gave it a band and it ohkos pretty much any ghost it catches in pursuit. Gave it knockoff just for kicks. Seed bomb to kill some stuff ( aururos), rhydon and etc. And u turn.

Garb.

Needed spike support and there is no other guy that doesn't do the job better amirite, with aftermath and rocky helmet this thing gets more useful. Overall fat and useful

Cryn (snowflake guy)

Needed a good spinner

Went with this guy has freeze dry with ice beam, it does heavy damage to water teams and it spins :)

Do you think it is more difficult or less difficult to ladder with a Dark Horse Pokemon? Why?
Nah, had my boi LucianVega, Chillshadow, Ed, Unbo, Zben and all my bois that had my back, Felt like the Pokemon World understood my situation and blessed me.

How did your Dark Horse Pokemon fit into your laddering experience?
-
this thing just didn't break , its hard to break with munchlax on its side it almost never breaks.
How did you reach the Hall of Fame?

I reached the hall of fame by having faith in the team and not giving up and Shoutout to LucianVega and all my bois from HELLFIRE CLUB! WE DID IT BOIS
 

Hall of fame squad, moo :]
Glalie @ Focus Sash
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 96 HP / 80 Atk / 80 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Spikes
- Explosion
- Freeze-Dry
- Taunt

moo (Miltank) @ Life Orb
Ability: Scrappy
Happiness: 0
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Frustration
- Earthquake
- Milk Drink

Rampardos @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Rock Slide
- Head Smash
- Zen Headbutt
- Superpower

Cacturne @ Choice Band
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Sucker Punch
- Switcheroo
- Seed Bomb
- Swords Dance

Drifblim
Ability: Aftermath
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Acrobatics
- Substitute
- Disable
- Will-O-Wisp

Electrode @ Choice Specs
Ability: Soundproof
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 1 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 SpD
- Volt Switch
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ground]
- Signal Beam

Total: 11.7% usage


The team idea is pretty simple, get up spikes with glalie, use offensive miltank to get up rocks and deal some damage, stop the spin with drif and then use the last 3 members to try and break down the opponents team w/ the help of hazards. The team looks very gimmicky on paper but it packs a lot of surprise factor which can often give you the upper hand (i.e. miltank killing hitmonchan after a spike) and can actually win pretty much any match up if you play it right (stall is rough but it's definitely winnable). Here's a replay which showcases the team well http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/nu-424681010

How did you choose your Dark Horse Pokemon for this project?
- Originally, I picked ditto as my DH, mainly because I wanted to recreate the legendary ditto stall that goomy made in XY. I made the team with ditto and it was solid enough, but after about 10 games on ladder I decided I wasn't going to use ditto, I found using stall pretty boring and honestly, it just wasn't really much of a challenge since there are so many good stall options in DH, it's just like a regular team. After that I went for a complete overhaul and decided to go full offense so glalie seemed like a pretty obvious pick. Tbh glalie wasn't really the DH of the team it was actually lo rocks miltank but since that technically doesn't fulfill the role of a DH glalie filled the spot.

How did you go about building a team for your Dark Horse Pokemon?
- When I added glalie I knew I wanted an offensive rocker, normally when building offense this is where I'd add mesprit but since this is DH I decided to add lo offensive rocks miltank, something that I'd been meaning to try for a while but never got around to. Next I wanted to add mons that really benefitted from the hazard support and the first thing that came to mind was cb cacturne, after Davon used it effectively vs me in nul I really wanted to try it and this seemed like the perfect opportunity. With maximum hazard it pretty much kills every offensive mon with sucker and it decimates rain teams which is amazing for offense. The next mon took me a while to decide on, I knew I wanted something fast that still packed a punch and after messing around with some options like scarf garb and scarf kabu, I eventually decided on scarf rampardos. This thing is insanely powerful with grounds being the only switch ins, meaning it benefits hugely from spikes. Missing out on swellows speed tier is annoying but it's not too big an issue on this team. Next I needed a spin blocker and something that could help me deal with fighting types considering my team was currently 4 fight weaks. Acro disable drif is a really cool mon and I feel like it fit really well here, giving me an out vs stuff like gurdurr since you just disable the knock and they can't touch you. It also gets wisps off on the flying resist which is normally beneficial for ramp or trode. And that brings me to the final mon electrode. The team was lacking speed and struggled with boom swellow so trode seemed like a no brainer here. This thing hits like a truck and when the elec immune is gone it sometimes just auto wins, matchups where the opp had no elec immune are nearly auto wins due to how much pressure this puts on.


Do you think it is more difficult or less difficult to ladder with a Dark Horse Pokemon? Why? I think it really depends on what playstyle you're rocking. With stall, or just generally fatter teams idt there's much that differentiates a DH team from a normal one that you would see used in tour play since there are so many good defensive options low down such as bronzor, sliggoo, gourgiest and clef. In that sense I also think balance is similar enough, although maybe a bit more difficult. I actually made a DH balance team with specs mothim that was really effective which i laddered up to 1600 with on my main, it ended up going a bit over the maximum usage I felt like reworking it would make the team much worse so I decided to just leave it as it was and moving onto a different mon, i'll drop the pb for that at the end. Offense is where I feel that you really need to rely on surprise factor to have success, a lot of the games I played on ladder became much more difficult as I faced the same people again as I couldn't rely on someone not accounting for cb cacturne, or be able to disable their +1 gurdurr with drifblim. However when I faced players for the first time the team was incredibly effective since you take one look at it, think, wtf am I looking at, and then you underestimate it.

How did your Dark Horse Pokemon fit into your laddering experience?
- I guess it fit in pretty well, it had a very simple job but it performed it very well, inner focus was really nice for guaranteeing hazards and being able to survive 2 heavy slams from max attack lix is really useful, taunt is amazing too ofc. The team actually matched up quite well vs common archetypes, especially the kind of lanturn, hitmonchan, defensive mesprit builds that you see a lot of since they really struggle to deal miltank since it just kills chan, lanturn after spikes and 1v1s mesprit. The only matchup I felt was tough was when the opp had either steelix + wish audino or rhydon + wish audino since the team has a lot of trouble breaking through those two and even if i can catch the ground on the switch on a prediction audino could just wish it back, the matchup up wasn't unwinnable but it was tough. Offense gets destroyed by this thanks to trode, scarf ramp and cb cactus and weather teams all just die to cactus after some hazards too. While my DH didn't have a very exciting role it did what i wanted it to do perfectly and provided invaluable support.

How did you reach the Hall of Fame?
- I won lots of games :3 Honestly it was actually easier to win games when I got matched up with more competitively viable for some reason so as I got into the 1400s I just cruised along, this was possibly because my scarf ape matchup was really bad and lower ladder runs it on 50% of teams fsr lol. If I was to give any advice about laddering is that you should stay relaxed and just take it easy, laddering is meant to be fun and getting worked up ruins the fun, plus it makes you play much worse. Often you can still win after you get haxed but players just get frustrated and stop caring, leading them to throw the game.

And that's it for me, thanks for ready :D This DH run was really fun and I'm actually pretty proud of the team I put together, it's different but it's incredibly fun to use with some really interesting mons that don't get to shine often, give it a try if you get the chance!
Mothim @ Choice Specs
Ability: Tinted Lens
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Bug Buzz
- Air Slash
- U-turn
- Energy Ball

Rotom @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Volt Switch
- Shadow Ball
- Thunderbolt
- Trick

Pelipper @ Leftovers
Ability: Keen Eye
EVs: 248 HP / 156 Def / 104 SpD
Bold Nature
- Scald
- U-turn
- Defog
- Roost

Regirock @ Leftovers
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 HP / 72 Def / 184 SpD
Careful Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Thunder Wave
- Rock Slide
- Seismic Toss

Primeape @ Choice Band
Ability: Vital Spirit
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- U-turn
- Close Combat
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake

Skuntank @ Lum Berry
Ability: Aftermath
EVs: 144 Atk / 220 SpD / 144 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Sucker Punch
- Pursuit
- Poison Jab
- Taunt

 

The Goomy

Whitest Mexican Alive

Hall of fame squad, moo :]
Glalie @ Focus Sash
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 96 HP / 80 Atk / 80 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Spikes
- Explosion
- Freeze-Dry
- Taunt

moo (Miltank) @ Life Orb
Ability: Scrappy
Happiness: 0
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Frustration
- Earthquake
- Milk Drink

Rampardos @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Rock Slide
- Head Smash
- Zen Headbutt
- Superpower

Cacturne @ Choice Band
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Sucker Punch
- Switcheroo
- Seed Bomb
- Swords Dance

Drifblim
Ability: Aftermath
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Acrobatics
- Substitute
- Disable
- Will-O-Wisp

Electrode @ Choice Specs
Ability: Soundproof
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 1 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 SpD
- Volt Switch
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ground]
- Signal Beam

Total: 11.7% usage


The team idea is pretty simple, get up spikes with glalie, use offensive miltank to get up rocks and deal some damage, stop the spin with drif and then use the last 3 members to try and break down the opponents team w/ the help of hazards. The team looks very gimmicky on paper but it packs a lot of surprise factor which can often give you the upper hand (i.e. miltank killing hitmonchan after a spike) and can actually win pretty much any match up if you play it right (stall is rough but it's definitely winnable). Here's a replay which showcases the team well http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/nu-424681010

How did you choose your Dark Horse Pokemon for this project?
- Originally, I picked ditto as my DH, mainly because I wanted to recreate the legendary ditto stall that goomy made in XY. I made the team with ditto and it was solid enough, but after about 10 games on ladder I decided I wasn't going to use ditto, I found using stall pretty boring and honestly, it just wasn't really much of a challenge since there are so many good stall options in DH, it's just like a regular team. After that I went for a complete overhaul and decided to go full offense so glalie seemed like a pretty obvious pick. Tbh glalie wasn't really the DH of the team it was actually lo rocks miltank but since that technically doesn't fulfill the role of a DH glalie filled the spot.

How did you go about building a team for your Dark Horse Pokemon?
- When I added glalie I knew I wanted an offensive rocker, normally when building offense this is where I'd add mesprit but since this is DH I decided to add lo offensive rocks miltank, something that I'd been meaning to try for a while but never got around to. Next I wanted to add mons that really benefitted from the hazard support and the first thing that came to mind was cb cacturne, after Davon used it effectively vs me in nul I really wanted to try it and this seemed like the perfect opportunity. With maximum hazard it pretty much kills every offensive mon with sucker and it decimates rain teams which is amazing for offense. The next mon took me a while to decide on, I knew I wanted something fast that still packed a punch and after messing around with some options like scarf garb and scarf kabu, I eventually decided on scarf rampardos. This thing is insanely powerful with grounds being the only switch ins, meaning it benefits hugely from spikes. Missing out on swellows speed tier is annoying but it's not too big an issue on this team. Next I needed a spin blocker and something that could help me deal with fighting types considering my team was currently 4 fight weaks. Acro disable drif is a really cool mon and I feel like it fit really well here, giving me an out vs stuff like gurdurr since you just disable the knock and they can't touch you. It also gets wisps off on the flying resist which is normally beneficial for ramp or trode. And that brings me to the final mon electrode. The team was lacking speed and struggled with boom swellow so trode seemed like a no brainer here. This thing hits like a truck and when the elec immune is gone it sometimes just auto wins, matchups where the opp had no elec immune are nearly auto wins due to how much pressure this puts on.


Do you think it is more difficult or less difficult to ladder with a Dark Horse Pokemon? Why? I think it really depends on what playstyle you're rocking. With stall, or just generally fatter teams idt there's much that differentiates a DH team from a normal one that you would see used in tour play since there are so many good defensive options low down such as bronzor, sliggoo, gourgiest and clef. In that sense I also think balance is similar enough, although maybe a bit more difficult. I actually made a DH balance team with specs mothim that was really effective which i laddered up to 1600 with on my main, it ended up going a bit over the maximum usage I felt like reworking it would make the team much worse so I decided to just leave it as it was and moving onto a different mon, i'll drop the pb for that at the end. Offense is where I feel that you really need to rely on surprise factor to have success, a lot of the games I played on ladder became much more difficult as I faced the same people again as I couldn't rely on someone not accounting for cb cacturne, or be able to disable their +1 gurdurr with drifblim. However when I faced players for the first time the team was incredibly effective since you take one look at it, think, wtf am I looking at, and then you underestimate it.

How did your Dark Horse Pokemon fit into your laddering experience?
- I guess it fit in pretty well, it had a very simple job but it performed it very well, inner focus was really nice for guaranteeing hazards and being able to survive 2 heavy slams from max attack lix is really useful, taunt is amazing too ofc. The team actually matched up quite well vs common archetypes, especially the kind of lanturn, hitmonchan, defensive mesprit builds that you see a lot of since they really struggle to deal miltank since it just kills chan, lanturn after spikes and 1v1s mesprit. The only matchup I felt was tough was when the opp had either steelix + wish audino or rhydon + wish audino since the team has a lot of trouble breaking through those two and even if i can catch the ground on the switch on a prediction audino could just wish it back, the matchup up wasn't unwinnable but it was tough. Offense gets destroyed by this thanks to trode, scarf ramp and cb cactus and weather teams all just die to cactus after some hazards too. While my DH didn't have a very exciting role it did what i wanted it to do perfectly and provided invaluable support.

How did you reach the Hall of Fame?
- I won lots of games :3 Honestly it was actually easier to win games when I got matched up with more competitively viable for some reason so as I got into the 1400s I just cruised along, this was possibly because my scarf ape matchup was really bad and lower ladder runs it on 50% of teams fsr lol. If I was to give any advice about laddering is that you should stay relaxed and just take it easy, laddering is meant to be fun and getting worked up ruins the fun, plus it makes you play much worse. Often you can still win after you get haxed but players just get frustrated and stop caring, leading them to throw the game.

And that's it for me, thanks for ready :D This DH run was really fun and I'm actually pretty proud of the team I put together, it's different but it's incredibly fun to use with some really interesting mons that don't get to shine often, give it a try if you get the chance!
Mothim @ Choice Specs
Ability: Tinted Lens
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Bug Buzz
- Air Slash
- U-turn
- Energy Ball

Rotom @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Volt Switch
- Shadow Ball
- Thunderbolt
- Trick

Pelipper @ Leftovers
Ability: Keen Eye
EVs: 248 HP / 156 Def / 104 SpD
Bold Nature
- Scald
- U-turn
- Defog
- Roost

Regirock @ Leftovers
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 HP / 72 Def / 184 SpD
Careful Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Thunder Wave
- Rock Slide
- Seismic Toss

Primeape @ Choice Band
Ability: Vital Spirit
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- U-turn
- Close Combat
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake

Skuntank @ Lum Berry
Ability: Aftermath
EVs: 144 Atk / 220 SpD / 144 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Sucker Punch
- Pursuit
- Poison Jab
- Taunt

Hey Shane! Really cool team that I think shows the heart of dark horse - trying new ideas to make team building more interesting. I really enjoy LO Miltank, as I've run it before on balance and was similarly suprised by how good it was.

One question is if you considered Icy Wind over Freeze-Dry? I feel like that would guarantee a good result against lead archeops and start with icy wind and flow chart from there. What made you choose freeze dry? Thanks!
 
Hey Shane! Really cool team that I think shows the heart of dark horse - trying new ideas to make team building more interesting. I really enjoy LO Miltank, as I've run it before on balance and was similarly suprised by how good it was.

One question is if you considered Icy Wind over Freeze-Dry? I feel like that would guarantee a good result against lead archeops and start with icy wind and flow chart from there. What made you choose freeze dry? Thanks!
Hey goomy, glad to hear you like the team n_n Honestly I never really considered Icy Wind as an option, but in practice freeze dry was pretty useful as it cleanly 2hkos xatu, something wind doesn't and ability to hit waters was nice in some matchups, especially against kabutops'. I feel like if lead archeops was more commong I'd definitely run wind but since it's really fallen out of favor I find freeze dry to be more generally useful, I didn't actually face a single lead chops while I was laddering though so I'm not really sure what the mu is like lol
 

Shadestep

volition immanent
is a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus

didn't reach the Hall of Fame, but it's whatever. I still had fun
BRIGHT LIGHTS (Raichu) @ Life Orb
Ability: Lightning Rod
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Volt Switch
- Knock Off
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Grass Knot

LIGHT UP THE SKY (Samurott) @ Lum Berry
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 224 Atk / 32 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Waterfall
- Megahorn
- Aqua Jet

OUTSIDE (Garbodor) @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Aftermath
EVs: 248 HP / 196 Def / 64 Spe
Impish Nature
- Gunk Shot
- Focus Blast
- Toxic Spikes
- Spikes

JAGWAR (Sliggoo) @ Eviolite
Ability: Sap Sipper
EVs: 252 HP / 168 Def / 88 SpD
Careful Nature
- Outrage
- Curse
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

DESCENT (Golem) @ Custap Berry
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Stealth Rock
- Sucker Punch

FEELS SO RIGHT (Gourgeist-Super) @ Colbur Berry
Ability: Frisk
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Will-O-Wisp
- Synthesis
- Foul Play
- Leech Seed

How did you choose your Dark Horse Pokemon for this project? What lead you to choose the Pokemon you did? Did you have regrets or were you happy with your selection?
~ I think just like everyone did, I started scrolling through the Usage Stats and found Raichu sticking out to me. Why? I have no idea. I saw there was once a teambuilding workshop around Mixed Raichu, so I stole the idea from there. It looked like it had decent potential, being able to mess with Lanturn a bit. I did have some regrets since Raichu didn't put in as much work as I thought it would, but eh. Honestly, most of my other Pokemon put in way more work than Raichu itself. Often times I just used it to soften up Steelix' or Lanturns a bit before sacking it.

How did you go about building a team for your Dark Horse Pokemon? Which kinds of teammates did you consider? What factors contributed to the team you created?
~ I first looked at what Raichu could do, and what Pokemon could benefit from it. I quickly found my first A-rank pick in SD Samurott. SD Samurott appreciates Raichu's ability to cripple both offensive and defensive Lanturn and allows for an easier sweep. Raichu also picks off non-Sash Jynx, as it can live any hit from Jynx and OHKOs with Knock Off. I dumped some SpDef in my Samurott to let it take on Jynx better in a pinch, since my team is otherwise ravaged by it. Only 1 mon that outspeeds, hits the entire team bar Raichu and Samurott super-effectively, etc. It doesn't get any free switch-ins however, except for if it catches Samurott going for Waterfall. My 2nd A-rank pick was Garbodor. Garbodor is just an all-around great mon and we all know what it does. I didn't do anything fancy with it and just decided to go with a standard spread, although I tried out Advantage 's Lum Berry + Rock Blast 'lure' with decent success. (it's for Jynx, btw.) At this point my team was looking very weak to mons like Pyroar, Magmortar and Swellow; strong special attackers. I hadn't used Sliggoo in a while so I decided to use it, and man.. this thing is actually insane. out of the ~100 battles on my Dark Horse alt that I've won have been because of Sliggoo. Especially Low Ladder has no idea what to do vs this thing and its absolutely killerrr. This mon majorly helped me get through the Low Ladder, and put in insane amounts of work too higher up, around 1400. It also synergizes well with Garbodor and Samurott as they can deal with the Fairies and Ice-types that Sliggoo struggles to beat.
Now my next Mon is a bit of an odd one, but it had to be; Samurott + Garbodor took up almost 30% out of the 37% usable so I had to play my cards right. I used Golem since I saw Kiyo use it once with decent success. It's one of the few offensive SR users with Priority, the other one being Piloswine which took up too much usage for me. Custap Berry has grabbed me many surprise kills and is overall just a great item on Pokemon like Golem and Aggron. My last pick was something to deal with a lot of Pokemon, a glue as some may say. What Sliggoo does to most special attackers, Gourgeist does to most Physical attackers. Gourgeist takes on Kangaskhan, Tauros, Barbaracle and a good chunk of other major threats on. It also stopped Hitmonchan from spinning all over my team and was overall a great last pick.

Do you think it is more difficult or less difficult to ladder with a Dark Horse Pokemon? Why?
Does the element of surprise play a factor in your battles? Is it easier to fight with a "highly used" team or with Pokemon that are less common?
~ I don't necessarily think the laddering is more difficult, as a lot of low-usage mons have some particular niche that help them deal with certain popular Pokemon like no other poke can. The most challenging aspect of the DH project in my opinion is the team building process. To go on the ladder with a bunch of random mons thrown together.. yea, that's not gonna work. You have to think in scenarios, and focus on being able to handle the majority of popular ladder Pokemon / Cores. That's also why I picked Raichu + Sliggoo for example. Sliggoo can beat standard Steelix as long as it's a bit weakened and its lefties are Knocked Off. Raichu let's me do that pretty easily, as Knock Off > Grass Knot heavily weakens Steelix and opens up the way for Sliggoo to start setting up and getting lucky with Sleep Talk rolls, which is always fun. The element of surprise certainly helped in some occasions, however it was mostly people's underprepared teams that helped. Sliggoo is one of the underrated mons that you can't get away with not purposely having a check for, unlike other Dark Horses like Klinklang, which funnily enough almost all teams have good counters/checks to, without even ever thinking about it. I don't think it's that much harder to fight with underrated/under used Pokemon as it certainly adds another element to the fight; opponents will be thrown off by obscure team choices and that may benefit you by your opponents overseeing something or sacking something they might have actually really needed in the End-Game. It's also certainly waaaaaaaaaay more fun to ladder with a team like this, I actually enjoyed myself laddering for this.

How did your Dark Horse Pokemon fit into your laddering experience? Did you feel that it helps take on many common Pokemon or archetypes in the metagame, or did it struggle to accomplish much?
~ I don't really think Raichu was all that great as I've stated before. It was mostly playing a supportive role for the rest of the team, for example weakening a Steelix significantly, then sacrificing itself to open the doors for Sliggoo. Its speed tier is pretty cool though and it's also not all that weak, so it was fun playing around with it. Unfortunately, nobody on the ladder runs anything besides Fat Balance, which Raichu doesn't do well vs.

What was the most challenging aspect of this project? What did you learn the most from your experience with Dark Horse Pokemon? How has your learning from this project changed the way you battle?
~ The most challenging aspect of the Dark Horse project for me was building a team that fit into the requirements of 2 A-rank Pokemon and under 37% usage. It forced me to build out of my comfort zone, which is something I really struggle with.. Evann would know about that lmao. I normallly only use Garbodor / Rhydon core + a bunch of standard stuff like Samurott, Kangaskhan, Lanturn, etc. This project showed me how to have fun with teambuilding in NU and use some underrated mons. In this sense, I don't think the project has helped me get better at battling, but it certainly has helped me improve my Teambuilding Skills.
 
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In as DH Cythulu
Started out with | 197 | Simisage | 0.10208% | as my Dark Horse. Can't wait to do this.

Team:

Usage Percentage: 23.09719%

This is the team I'll be using for Ladder. Good luck to those trying to get to 1500!
 
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poh

<?>
is a Community Contributoris a Top Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Forum Moderator Alumnus
I didn't reach the Hall Of Fame (yet) but really wanted to write something about my experience with this challenge.


How did you choose your Dark Horse Pokemon for this project?

First I went with Ninetales but after a few games I didn’t really like it so i decided to change my dh. Again I was looking for a relatively fast and strong mon and Sawsbuck (0.667%) seemed like a fine pick. I knew that Sawsbuck can be very threatening after a Swords Dance and decided to go with it.

Now came the teambuilding aspect of this challenge. I’ve always liked FWG cores so i picked Floatzel (1.867%) and Pyroar (9.093%), the first A-rank mon, to complete the core. Then i went with Claydol (6.528%) to have a spinner and a First Fighting check . I needed another Fighting check and something for Malamar and Weezing (10.749%) was my 5th choice. Lastly I needed a special wall and a rocker and Cradily (3.916%) fitted that description.

Adding up all the usages I was under the 37% mark: 33.820%




Sawsbuck-Summer @ Life Orb
Ability: Sap Sipper
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Horn Leech
- Double-Edge
- Jump Kick

Floatzel @ Life Orb
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 1 Atk / 30 SpA
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Hidden Power [Electric]
- Baton Pass

Pyroar @ Choice Specs
Ability: Unnerve
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 SpA
- Overheat
- Fire Blast
- Hyper Voice
- Hidden Power [Grass]

Claydol @ Colbur Berry
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psyshock
- Earth Power
- Shadow Ball
- Rapid Spin

Weezing @ Black Sludge
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 132 HP / 252 Def / 124 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Pain Split
- Sludge Bomb
- Will-O-Wisp
- Taunt

Cradily @ Leftovers
Ability: Storm Drain
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Giga Drain
- Toxic
- Stealth Rock
- Recover


Do you think it is more difficult or less difficult to ladder with a Dark Horse Pokemon?

It wasn't necesseraily harder to ladder with Sawsbuck but it were more the restrictions this challenge had but i'll get to that later. The surprise factor helped too from time to time as lower ladder often didn't know how threatening Sawsbuck could be in the right circumstances. Laddering with mons that are higher used is easier but I think this challenge show more than enough that laddering with lower used mons isn't all that of a burden.

How did your Dark Horse Pokemon fit into your laddering experience?
I actually really enjoyed playing with Sawsbuck. It can hit hard after +2 and has great coverage too which helped sweeping late game easier. It still had problems against Steelix, Gourgeist and ofcourse faster mons as Sawsbuck isn't the fastest mon out there. What I also liked about Sawsbuck was its ability to switch in on Grass types with Sap Sipper so I could deal some damage midgame which is always a plus.

What was the most challenging aspect of this project?
Definitely the teambuilding. Staying under that 37% made it quite difficult to build and trying to cover as many weaknesses as possible is almost impossible. Laddering with lesser used mons made my ladder experience so much more fun. I had to analyze everything from teampreview to work around serious threats like Archeops, Jynx, .. Overall I really enjoyed this challenge and I can't wait to start laddering with the next mon!
 
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Luck O' the Irish

banned in dc
is a Tiering Contributor
Welp it's the end of the month and I've reached 1500, with dusclops as my dark horse.

upload_2016-8-31_22-42-21.png
upload_2016-8-31_22-42-37.png

How did you choose your Dark Horse Pokemon for this project?

After using pp stall to success on the ladder I decided to do something I'd never thought I'd consider doing- making a serious team with dusclops. I know waters had used a set with like resttalk/wisp/s-toss but after seeing CM clops claim souls I wanted to use that. Even with Calm Mind Dusclops is still pretty passive and so naturally I decided to use full stall. Dusclops does a few nice things for stall in being a good normal check, spinblocker, status absorber, status spreader with Wisp, and wincon that eats a lot of balance builds alive while putting a lot of pressure (lol) on bulkier builds. On the squads I used it on Dusclops wasn't going always going to be threatening a sweep, but having the ability to threaten certain teams is useful for stall, especially compared to all of the no-wincon stall builds that people use nowadays that tend to create 500 turn games culminating in a scald crit burn to win since those teams don't actually put any sort of offensive pressure on other fat builds.
How did you go about building a team for your Dark Horse Pokemon?

I took a pretty weird approach to the first team I built with this nearly 3 months ago- the most obvious partner for Dusclops is Mega Audino since it patches up its lack of reliable recovery and also gets key Dark and Ghost resists, but I decided to avoid using Mega Audino altogether. The ultimate goal of this team was to get away from the Megadino-Bronzor-Sliggoo cores that found there way onto nearly every full stall team worth its salt. I also wanted to experiment with using stall with no cleric, so me running Rest without Sleep Talk Dusclops made it for pretty odd timing to try this, but I had done the same on pp stall and had no problems with it so I didn't actually consider this at the time.

I decided to pair Clops with bulky scyther- gives me another wincon and way to threaten passive mons, reliable recovery, and beats pretty much every dark type in the meta while also providing a decent speed tier which stall often lacks. Gastrodon came next to alleviate the Rock, Fire, and Rotom weakness. Xatu gave me yet another way to threaten Balance with CM, Regirock gave me SR and a solid Flying Resist while also giving me another solid Fire and Normal Check, and Pelipper came last cause Defog and reliable recovery which Mantine lacked, and the result was this:
upload_2016-8-31_20-50-6.png


I never actually tested this before using it in tours, but I was so confident in Dusclops that I never actually stepped back and looked at what I had done. As a result I brought this in 5 games in the NU seeded tour (going 4-1 lol) before realizing that not only did I not have an Ice-resist, I had zero counterplay to Abomasnow and Aurorus. Additionally, a year ago having Scyther + Regirock meant you would have been set against NU Dark Types in most cases, but as the meta changed people realized that SD shiftry is much better than mixed + defog, and even scarf started gaining some use recently (which is also better than mixed imo) and it meant that Shiftry was putting a lot more pressure on the team than I initially was expecting. Mismagius and Lilligant were also annoying. Had I not had the crippling Ice weakness I would have rolled with this team but unfortunately that meant using this team in tours and in general was too risky since I was in danger of literally losing at team preview.

I tried a few times to recreate Dusclops stall but all of my new attempts were really, really fuckin bad. So instead I decided to modify the original team. Unfortunately the easiest and most effective fixes required me to sell out and run Audino + Bronzor but at this point I just wanted to have a much more reliable clops squad that didnt suck. Mega Audino came naturally over Scyther and Bronzor went over Gastro since it was the most expendable mon on the team imo. Luckily, these changes made the team actually fit for Dark Horse and so this allowed me to actually test out the squad, which now looked like this:
upload_2016-8-31_21-10-20.png


And without further ado here's a more in depth look at the team:




Audino-Mega @ Audinite
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 200 Def / 60 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Wish
- Protect
- Heal Bell
- Dazzling Gleam

Dusclops @ Eviolite
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 248 HP / 128 Def / 132 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Will-O-Wisp
- Calm Mind
- Rest
- Shadow Ball

Bronzor @ Eviolite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Toxic
- Psywave
- Rest
- Skill Swap

Xatu @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 248 HP / 124 Def / 136 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Reflect
- Psychic
- Grass Knot
- Roost

Regirock @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 16 Def / 240 SpD
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Rock Slide
- Earthquake
- Thunder Wave

Pelipper @ Leftovers
Ability: Keen Eye
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Air Slash
- Roost
- Defog


There are still some decent flaws in this team but it did pretty well on the ladder. From my experience stall is a playstyle where it's easier to spend a lot of time on the first draft and getting it right the first time instead of patching it up as you go but the final result ended up being good enough for the scope of this project.

Mega-Audino makes a really nice pair with Dusclops as mentioned, it does what you'd expect it to do on stall. The sp atk EVs give it a better chance to 3HKO malamar with dazzling gleam. Dusclops is really cool and it separates itself from other bulky CM stallbreakers like Sub cm Mesprit, Mushy, Duosion, and Xatu since it combines some of each of their individual traits in exchange for power- ability to shrug off/ignore status, heal itself, and actually threaten Dark Types with will-o. Its ability Pressure is its biggest standalone trait, and it allows me to creatively deal with threats to the team, such as Aggron. Blocking Spin is also nice.

Bronzor is really good for Dark Horse as other people mentioned, and its the most reliable Ice counter on stall. I have Stealth Rock on Regirock so I can run Skill Swap on Bronzor, which allows me to check CM xatu and troll shit like malamar on the switchin. The Xatu set is the most reliable in terms of pure hazard support, allowing it to stay in and 1v1 rock types reliably and kinda beat Piloswine, barring crits. Reflect + Rocky Helmet means you actually 1v1 physical Skuntank, especially if they're not running Black Sludge (which is suboptimal on physical). Even though you give free switchins to Shiftry, Malamar, and Klinglang, reflect makes it easy for teammates to take them on. I'd rather be running CM honestly but since Bronzor gives free turns to Skuntank just as reliably as it beats Ice types, having something to kinda lure it in and wear it down helps. Grass Knot is also important to hit Samurott and Kabutops, the latter of which is a gigantic threat if it runs SD. Speed EV's outpace neutral base 80's, aka kabutops. Not much else to say other than more stall teams should consider Xatu, your matchup against spikestack becomes like 10x better and it also puts pressure on a lot of bulky builds if you run CM.

Regirock still performs the same role as it does on this team as it does the old team. I'm running EQ > Protect on this version since Aggron is tricky to deal with on this team and being able to hit it hard is important. Protect can be used over T-wave if you want that extra lefties recovery that was important on the other team. Pelipper gives me Defog and a check to most physical attackers in the tier. Mantine is potentially more useful on this team since Pelipper is the water resist lol, but it takes up too much usage (also good luck dealing with the rare physical grass types then lol). Air Slash is mandatory since uturn pelipper fucking blows on stall and Air Slash allows you to more reliably deal with Rotter, Fighting Types, and hit Grass Types like Ludicolo on the switch for solid damage


The no Electric resist is a bit annoying but the only thing that can really take advantage of that is NP raichu, which for all intensive purposes does not exist. Manec + other threats can be annoying tho, you'll want to keep Audino in base form as long as possible to soak up volt switches w/ Regenerator and play aggressively by predicting Manectric doubles. The weakness to Rain and Water Spam in general is notable however. Kabutops flat out bodies in Rain. Luckily the only times I ran into Kabutops on the ladder were people running shit like Rock Slide/Spin/Waterfall/SR but Jesus Christ a well played Kabutops (or simply one carrying SD) would fuck this team. Ludicolo hurts a bit but I can chew its hits easier. Aggron can also be a bit annoying to deal with but the matchup against it actually isnt terrible between Reflect on Xatu and Wish Passing to Clops, which can potentially pp stall its Head Smash. Most of my losses on the ladder were to me misplaying around Vivillon and then it consistently getting high sleep turns and Hurricane confusions and bad ladder gimmicks this team had trouble dealing with and not prominent threats to the team, love the ladder.

Do you think it is more difficult or less difficult to ladder with a Dark Horse Pokemon? Why? Does the element of surprise play a factor in your battles? Is it easier to fight with a "highly used" team or with Pokemon that are less common?

If you're using niche pokemon, you will find success with it on a well-built team that maximizes its potential. Surprise factor is always helpful of course. I think the only time you're at a disadvantage in terms of using less common mons or "highly used" teams is when you have a team that relies heavily on its surprise factor for it to work and the opponent knows your sets, which is not very common.

How did your Dark Horse Pokemon fit into your laddering experience? Did you feel that it helps take on many common Pokemon or archetypes in the metagame, or did it struggle to accomplish much?

Dusclops is a surprisingly good pokemon. It can be a bit passive at times and Dark Types make it more difficult to use effectively, but man this mon threatens so many balance builds. I wouldn't say it matches up poorly against a certain archetype since its natural bulk + Wisp means it walls a ton of things on offense while running CM with it means it threatens all kinds of balance and bulky builds, although its susceptibility to Dark and Ghost Types make it a little difficult to use. I wouldn't say there were any games where I wished I had another mon in Dusclop's place.

How did you reach the Hall of Fame? Was it easy or difficult? Did having a Dark Horse Pokemon on your team benefit you? What advice would you give to those laddering with Dark Horse Pokemon?

Dark Horse pokemon can be just as successful as S rank mons, but require much more support to use effectively. I think the most challenging aspect of this project is not just the fact that you're using a single niche mon, it's the fact that you can't just slap on proven, reliable cores to support your Dark Horse and call it a day. This project really pushes your ability to build, which as a player can be really important since having the better team can be the difference in games. One advice I have for everyone is to try to get away from familiar cores and explore different builds in serious teams, it will make you a much more versatile player.

In terms of my project I'd say the success I had is much less indicative of my teambuilding and playing ability than it is of how stall-weak the ladder is and people playing this tier can be. Yeah stall isn't common at all but you see this weakness with things like teams struggling and failing to break Clefairy balance and whatnot. As someone who loves using full stall it can be nice but it's painful watching replays of tours where people consistently bring teams that really struggle with fat teams when a few set changes would really make a difference. I think this team process also kinda shows what kind of builder I am as I primarily focus on certain threats and especially my matchup vs team archetypes, and in turn I'm much more lax with shit like type resistances which resulted in me spamming a team with zero Aurorus counterplay in a serious tour :p

This is a really fun project tho, Megadino + Bronzor stall is lame as hell but hopefully clops somewhat makes up for it.

-http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/nu-421378534 fun game I had vs Shadestep. Pursuit Skunk + Specs Mesprit is a rough matchup but Reflect Xatu is able to get the best of skunk yet again.


Sorry/not sorry for the huge wall of text, thanks for reading :)

edit: replays are broken, not sure why D: if you really want to see em look up "DH Irish" in replays i guess
 
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