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The Deadly Duo; Heracross and Heatran!

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by TheWaddleDeeKing, Dec 23, 2012.

  1. TheWaddleDeeKing

    TheWaddleDeeKing

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2012
    Messages:
    51
    The magnificent beetle and molten turtle return this generation as useful as ever, both being well among the best duo in the entire metagame, sharing only a couple weaknesses and resisting the others weaknesses. Due to Heracross's feared STAB moves, and Heatrans excellent resistance, they are truly the bread and butter of the metagame. Taking this into account, the magnificent stab-beetle (get it?) and molten turtle are the core around my team, succeeding to win many battles with only two very close loses.

    Team Building Process (open)
    The process:

    Well obviously the team is centered around Heracross and Heatran, so there's the starting point.
    [​IMG][​IMG]

    The two, unfortunately, are very weak to both Sun and Rain. Although Heatran can counter Sun efficiently, the same cannot be said for Heracross and Rain. Tyranitar makes an excellent teammate in this case.
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    I have no idea what came over me, but in need of some physical wall immune to Earthquake, I decided to go for Landorus-T, for his efficient Intimidate forcing many switches. His support moves of Stealth Rock and U-turn are very welcomed as well (unfortunately, he comes with the nasty side effect of not aligning right with all the other sprites).
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    The weakness to water just hit me at this very moment. Tyranitar can somewhat remedy this for himself, but Heatran and Landorus have no such luck. It only made sense to add Gastrodon to the team at this point, to absorb those hits and fire back with his array of moves.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    And now for the last slot... I'm not going to lie, there were A LOT of contenders and temporary Pokemon. Rather than repost the list with all of them, I'm just going to go in a straight line:

    [​IMG] > [​IMG] > [​IMG] > [​IMG] > [​IMG] > [​IMG]


    The problem was trying to eliminate rain teams as much as possible. It went a long way, but I settled on Tentacruel in order to effectively ruin both water and ice moves (a spinner isn't bad either). So, that brings the final order to:

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]


    Changes in red and updates in blue as always.

    [​IMG]
    Props to Lyuma on deviantArt for this picture

    STABeetle (Heracross) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Guts
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    - Close Combat
    - Megahorn
    - Stone Edge
    - Night Slash/Brick Break/Sleep Talk

    The STAB beetle is back as good as ever, sporting an impressive horn and two amazing coverage moves in Close Combat and Megahorn. The horned-behemoth counters many threats in the meta-game surprisingly well when you throw a Scarf over his soldiers, easily OHKO'ing any non-scarfed Terrakion, Latios, Latias, Reuniclus, Alakazam, Kyurem-B, Tyranitar, Ferrothorn, Heatran, and Hydreigon after rocks with one of his two ridiculous STAB's. His role is extremely obvious, with a Jolly nature and a scarf, he revenge kills many top tier threats that run rampant throughout the metagame, and will always have a place in this team, and many others, because of it. Originally Moxie, I decided Guts was the best way to go in order to absorb more statuses from opposing Pokemon like Jellicent.

    Got rid of Night Slash for Brick Break, as I loathe dual screens. I don't particularly mind either, as Night Slash isn't even capable of OHKO'ing Gengar 100% of the time (in other words, it's a shitty move).

    Got rid of Brick Break for Sleep Talk. I realized that I needed sleep fodder more than a Dual Screens counter, as the former is much more common.

    [​IMG]
    Props to MusicalCombusken for this picture

    Pool Shark (Heatran) @ Air Balloon
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Modest Nature
    - Flame Charge
    - Fire Blast
    - Earth Power
    - Hidden Power [Grass]/Hidden Power [Ice]

    The turtle with no shell makes his triumphant return into OU this generation. Sporting good synergy with Heracross, his presence on this team is as amazing as is sliced bread. Flame Charge Heatran is probably the most famous underused set that is effective. Multiple boosts from Flame Charge stack up fast, allowing Heatran to become a threat real quickly. A maxed out 130 Special Attack stat will ruin a lot of defensive walls real quickly, if not outright KO'ing them. The last move slot is controversial, though with the weakness to water on my team, being able to at least get something off on them is valuable.

    Finally realized that I don't need HP Grass on this guy anymore, as I kept getting ruined by dragon-types, and Tentacruel and Gastrodon have a lot of coverage.

    [​IMG]
    Props to psychogengar on deviantArt for this cutesy picture

    Kitty (Tyranitar) @ Lum Berry
    Trait: Sand Stream
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    - Dragon Dance
    - Stone Edge
    - Crunch
    - Fire Punch

    Well shit. It's Tyranitar. If looks represented power, he would be as amazing as he is badass looking. That statement has a bit of truth to it, as Tyranitar is particular an amazing sweeper. His ability to bring an instant sandstorm in his wakes is crucial to my team, as it eliminates both rain and sun teams main selling point. Don't be fooled by his presence in my team, as my team doesn't need to rely on his sand at all to be effective - it is quite effective with or without it. Deciding to go a slightly different route, I opted to go for a Dragon Dance sweeper, carrying a Lum Berry in order to effectively get off one or two boosts. Although he is still rather slow, even after a boost, he is quite powerful at +1. Very few things will enjoy taking a +1 Stone Edge, Crunch or Fire Punch. It's even more devastating if I can manage to get to +2, in which case you best hope you carry a priority move on your team, or suffer the rather of the living dinosaur Tyranitar.

    [​IMG]
    Props to namh on deviantArt for this ferocious picture

    Bitchcakes (Landorus-Therian) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Intimidate
    EVs: 164 HP / 170 Atk / 96 Spd / 80 SDef
    Adamant Nature
    - Stealth Rock
    - Earthquake
    - Stone Edge
    - U-turn

    Potentially the most useless Therian form of all the genies, he has a niche in Intimidate, pseudo-increasing his defense and all others on the team. The other nice thing about him is a huge attack stat, so even with little investment his attacks will hit like a truck. He is the supporter of the team, and he works well because people don't expect him, and therefor they don't expect his move pool. With three common Stealth Rocker's on my team, he is often not expected to carry the move and therefor many free rocks have been laid down on my opponents field (even teams with Espeon and Xatu don't switch in on this guy to bounce them back due to his obscurity). Carrying the EdgeQuake combo to attack, U-turn is used in order to obtain some free damage and to safely bring in another Pokemon. A great supporter, he is, in all honesty, probably the weakest member of the team due to how many defensive behemoths exist in the meta game. Still, he is as useful as he is ferocious.

    [​IMG]
    Props to sailorclef from deviantArt for this picture

    Phallus (Gastrodon) @ Choice Specs
    Trait: Storm Drain
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 SAtk / 252 SDef
    Modest Nature
    - Scald
    - Earth Power
    - Toxic
    - Recover

    As said earlier, the weakness to water on this team was not doing me any favors. While Tyranitar can somewhat alleviate this with Sand Stream, it is still not helped much without any investment in Special Defense. Therefor, it was obvious we need some water resist... or better yet, immunity. Special Defense Gastrodon fills this position flawlessly, gaining a special attack boost upon switching in on Scalds and Hydro Pumps. While not possessing a high attack stat, reasonably good typing and bulk make for one ferocious slug, especially if you get the Storm Drain boost. Decided to forgo Scald over Ice Beam to cripple attackers, like Scizor.

    Originally a Specs variant, forgoing a more defensive style helped out more than the Specs version, and helped me wall certain attackers like the Lati-twins.

    [​IMG]
    I couldn't find an author for this picture, props to whoever it is though.

    Tentrape (Tentacruel) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Liquid Ooze
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 29 HP
    - Rapid Spin
    - Giga Drain
    - Hydro Pump
    - Ice Beam

    Coming straight from a Japanese hentai movie comes in the last team member, Tentacruel. Sporting high special defense and resist to both water and ice, it finally came down to him to help me out against water types (I also desperately needed another special attacker). Sporting Giga Drain, Hydro Pump and Ice Beam, he is surprising one good attacker, with a decent speed stat to help him out. While seemingly decent setup for some, Giga Drain is what helps him out, giving him crucial coverage on Pokemon like Keldeo, that would otherwise setup all day in his face. Rapid Spin is also nice to have, in case anyone feels the need to setup Spikes and Toxic Spikes on my side. All in all, a good Pokemon to round out the much needed coverage on my team. Keep in mind, his main objective is not to spin. Rocks aren't a big deal, and if more of my Pokemon were immune to Spikes I would run some obscure move.

    Key threats (that I'm aware of):

    [​IMG]

    Most Venusaurs under the Sun are actually checked rather well through the use of Heatran and Tentacruel. The problem arises when I face one with Earthquake, in which case, I'm essentially going through shit creek without a paddle. Although I do have a few checks in the form of Tyranitar and Heatran (if it has its Air Balloon), I can't switch them in without losing them, and if both are gone, I basically lose.

    [​IMG]

    Another problem I have is Tornadus-T. Hurricane is one sure fire way to ruin my life, and it sports the movepool to counter Tyranitar (Superpower + Focus Blast), the only sure fire thing to remove Hurricane's perfect accuracy. Luckily, a Jolly Scarf Herracross manages to somehow outspeed it and go for the KO with Stone Edge, but with only 80% accuracy, a miss will spell my demise.

    Dual Screens

    First time I've faced a team utilizing screens on this team. To be honest, screens are an underrated threat that ruin any team, but here it just screwed me over, as I couldn't do anything to his Conkeldurr as it accumulated three Bulk Ups to ruin me. I put Brick Break on Heracross (Dark Slash does jack shit anyways) but it's still a problem.

    Drizzle

    Rain teams are probably the last big thing. Luckily, I do have Tyranitar, but if the rains up, the only one on my team willing to take boosted Hydro Pumps and Scalds is Gastrodon, who I can't rely on forever. I can normally get around it, though normally is not the same as always.

    Additional comments: In hindsight I could make more defensive sets for some of my Pokemon in order to get rid of some counters, though its been going pretty damn well so far, only losing in 2 matches, one where it was extremely close, the end being a 1-0 lose. The other one, was bullshit. I was ready to sweep his team with a +1 Speed Heatran, but BOTH his Espeon and Gliscor (last two surviving members besides Scizor) survive the god damn Fire Blast with 1% HP, causing me to lose my Balloon from a Psychic and dying to an Earthquake, respectively. Thinking back on it, I could probably swap out HP Grass on Heatran for HP Ice, now that Tentacruel has Giga Drain.

    I'd love to hear suggestions, as no team is perfect and I can see a lot of flaws in mine. Thanks for reading :3
  2. Funkasaurus

    Funkasaurus king of games
    is a Tutoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor Alumnus

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    Nov 11, 2011
    Messages:
    724
    Hi there,

    Quite the interesting team you have here. Hopefully with this rate, it can become a better one. First off, I suggest using Starmie > Tentacruel. In my opinion, one should only use Tentacruel if they are using rain. Otherwise, Starmie is my water spinner of choice. I think the bulky Starmie set should do fine here. Starmie, typically, can take water attacks pretty well and it walls any Keldeo that doesn't run an obscure Hidden Power. (Ghost, Electric, Grass) Moving on, I think you should change Tyranitar from a DD variant into a Choice Band one. If the objective of the team is to clean up/revenge with Heracross, I don't think you need a boosting sweeper in Tyranitar, but rather a wallbreaker type. Using a CB Tar can help open up holes for Heracross to sweep. Next, I think you should change Gastrodon into a Latias. Latias is a really good counter to both Sun and Rain teams. It helps against user Keldeo and user Venusaur. The LO tank should be sufficient as it helps with the offensive nature of this team. Lastly, while your Heatran set is rather creative, it doesn't seem to be very effective in the current metagame. With that said, I recommend the specially defensive set. With this, you have another Pokemon to send out that can take a hit if need be.

    Sets (open)

    Heatran (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 248 HP / 248 SDef / 12 Spd
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Lava Plume
    - Protect
    - Roar
    - Will-O-Wisp

    Tyranitar (F) @ Choice Band
    Trait: Sand Stream
    EVs: 88 HP / 252 Atk / 168 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Crunch
    - Stone Edge
    - Pursuit
    - Superpower

    Starmie @ Leftovers
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 248 HP / 44 SAtk / 216 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Scald
    - Psyshock
    - Recover
    - Rapid Spin


    Good luck!
  3. TheWaddleDeeKing

    TheWaddleDeeKing

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2012
    Messages:
    51
    I appreciate the feedback. I'll consider Latias, but so far I've been doing way to well with Flame Charge Heatran (even more so since I replaced HP Grass for HP Ice) and DDance Tyranitar to sac them (somehow it works). I also like Starmie, but I don't use Tentacruel because I needed a spinner, I used it to counter Water-types. It's pretty effective at it too.

    I appreciate the feedback though!
  4. Cherub Agent

    Cherub Agent
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

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    Hey there, nice team. Personally, I think that you should change the roles of Landorus and Tyranitar. Tyranitar is incredibly easy to revenge kill by any scarfer, unboosted Pokemon such as Tornadus-T, and common priority such as Bullet- and Mach Punch. All in all, it seems very difficult to me to get a sweep out of him. Landorus-T can run a lethal Double Dance set, and avoid being revenge killed by scarfed Pokemon or Tornadus if it nabs a Rock Polish. After a Swords Dance it can also demolish stall, which seems like it could give your team some issues due to lack of true immediate power. It goes without saying that Tyranitar should then run the standard Stealth Rock set. Next, I'm surprised that you're not running Moxie on Heracross. You say that Guts is to help it beat Jellicent, but the fact remains that stone edge is the only way for you to hit it. Moxie would give you an amazing late game cleaner. Next, I think that you can get rid of Tentacruel. You can't even guarantee that Rain will be up, and you don't even really need a spinner considering that nobody on your team is weak to SR. I think that a specially defensive Rotom-W could benefit your team, as it's a brilliant counter to the threatening Tornadus-T, and does very well against Rain and Sun teams in general. It can slow down incoming Venusaur with Thunder Wave and smack Rain teams with a boosted Hydro Pump and Volt Switch. I'll playtest with the team a little bit and see if I can come up with any other suggestions, as I feel that Gastrodon could potentially also be replaced.
  5. High Impulse

    High Impulse

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2012
    Messages:
    147
    Hello, this is a really interesting looking team and I really do like the use of Heracross so, props for that.

    Agreeing with what Funkasaurus said about Starmie > Tentacruel, in my experience Tentacruel is not very good in Sand Teams and only really works in rain teams. Also, Starmie will help you fight Deoxys-D teams.

    I suggest changing Tyranitar to a standard Tyranitar set with Stealth Rocks, as DD Tyranitar is not very effective in BW2, also it will help you with the Lati twins.

    A weakness that seems to stick out to me is Tornadus-T, it can pretty much single handedly take on all of your team, so for this, I suggest a Specially Defensive Zapdos > Heatran. Zapdos is so good in this new metagame, and not only will it help you with Tornadus-T, but along with Gastrodon, it will give a really good defensive core if you change Gastrodon to a more defensive set.

    I think that you should use a Rock Polish Landorus-I > Landorus-T to help you combat Sun as if you decide to use my changes, you will have Stealth Rocks on Tyranitar and you won't have Heatran, so combating Sun will be hard; so Rock Polish Landorus-I seems like the perfect choice to help you fight against Sun.

    Show Hide
    [​IMG]
    Tyranitar (M) @ Chople Berry
    Trait: Sand Stream
    EVs: 252 HP / 208 SDef / 48 Spd
    Gentle Nature (+SDef, -Def)
    - Stealth Rock
    - Pursuit
    - Superpower
    - Fire Blast

    [​IMG]


    Zapdos @ Leftovers
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 252 HP / 76 Def / 180 SDef
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Roost
    - Thunderbolt
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Heat Wave

    [​IMG]


    Landorus (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Sheer Force
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Rock Polish
    - Earth Power
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Focus Blast

    [​IMG]

    Gastrodon-East (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Storm Drain
    EVs: 252 HP / 112 Def / 144 SDef
    Sassy Nature (+SDef, -Spd)
    - Scald
    - Earthquake
    - Recover
    - Toxic


    As I said man, nice team, hope I helped!
  6. TheWaddleDeeKing

    TheWaddleDeeKing

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2012
    Messages:
    51
    Well, damn. It seems that you people really do like Starmie, and it makes sense to use it over Tentacruel considering that I'm not investing defense (I'm assuming you all read Tentacruel's role and realize he's not my spinner, right? RIGHT?). I'll test it out on PS and see the results.

    I'm sorry, but Heracross and Heatran are the core of this team, I won't replace either of them for anything else.

    I'll consider switching Ttar and Landorus-T's roles, though if that's the case it would make sense to just switch Landorus-T to a standard Landorus with Sand Force. I'll test it out when I get the chance. It's surprising though, I've managed to get a lot of kills with DDance Tyranitar, though I definitely see the priority weakness in him.
  7. Livio

    Livio
    is a Tiering Contributor

    Joined:
    May 15, 2012
    Messages:
    266
    Hey there,

    The first thing that i can see is the weakness to Latwins/Hydreigon or to some psychic type like Reuniclus, that after Trick Room could give you not small trouble.. so I d suggest you to use Special Sponge Tyranitar 252Hp/200SpD/56Spd Chople Berry and Hardy Nature With a moveset of Stealth Rocks/Crunch/Rock Slide/Pursuit so you can win 1VS 1 versus Focus blast common users like Gengar/Alakazam and Reuniclus too and enter on Kyurem,Zapdos or Volcarona that could be a problem if had Hp ground.

    Now Landorus-T is enaugh useless since you already have a SR setter so I d suggest you to use an Offensive Landorus with an Ev spread of 4hP/252Atk/252Sps with a moveset of Rock Polish/Earthquake/Stone Edge/Sword Dance It's an incredible Stall Breaker and can "replace" Tyranitar Offensive lost.

    A Threat now could be Rp Landorus, that after boost is very problematic for you to stop, so I d suggest Life Orb Latias>Heatran with an Ev spread of 72 HP / 184 SpA / 252 Spe and a moveset of Draco Meteor/Psyshock/Surf/Recover so you can counter it and have in same time the bulkyness versus Sun teams, in fact it can alive on a +2 Sludge Bomb of Venusaur. Hope that i helped you, see ya :)

    Show Hide
    [​IMG]

    Tyranitar (F) @ Chople Berry
    Trait: Sand Stream
    EVs: 252 HP / 200 SDef / 56 Spd
    Hardy Nature
    - Crunch
    - Rock Slide
    - Pursuit
    - Stealth Rock

    [​IMG]

    Latias (F) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 72 HP / 184 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Psyshock
    - Draco Meteor
    - Recover
    - Surf

    [​IMG]

    Landorus-T (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Intimidate
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Rock Polish
    - Swords Dance
    - Earthquake
    - Stone Edge
  8. dragonuser

    dragonuser The only thing I look up to is the sky
    is a Contributor to Smogonis a Tutor Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis Smogon Frontier's Pyramid Kingis a Past WCoP Winner

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2011
    Messages:
    1,956
    Hi.

    This is a pretty cool team, but I do see some weaknesses. So like you mentioned, Tornadus-T looks like a pretty huge threat to your team as it can freely spam Hurricanes on you. I would also say that Breloom is a nuisance to you as well. Nothing really wants to take its STAB's, except Heracross who can be slept/worn down really easily. To help with this I would recommend a few changes. The first being Forretress > Tentacruel. So Forretress does much of what Tentacruel does, except that it is a very solid check to Breloom. It can also give your team more momentum and Spikes, something that Heracross really enjoys. In addition to this Forretress change, I would also give Heracross Sleep Talk > Night Slash. This gives you another check to Breloom/Spore'rs and can really help if you are wary about letting something take sleep. So to help with your weakness to Tornadus-T, I would recommend the Heatran set Funkasaurus posted. This set is a very solid to Tornadus-T, as well as being a great check to Sun teams.

    Now like other users have said, Dragon Dance Tyranitar isn't very effective in this metagame. The metagame is too fast and filled with too much priority for it to really function well. For this reason I would recommend a Choice Band Set over your current set. It can provide considerable wall breaking power, helping Heracross, and can trap troublesome Pokemon like Scarf Lati@s. Now with these changes you have more offensive options than before, but you are slightly more rain weak. For this reason I would recommend using a Specially Defensive Gastrodon over your current set. Specially Defensive Gastrodon is a fantastic rain check, and since you now have Pokemon like Choice Band Tyranitar, the power wont be missed too much. Anyways, cool team gl.

    sets (open)

    Forretress (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def
    Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spd)
    - Spikes
    - Rapid Spin
    - Volt Switch
    - Gyro Ball

    Tyranitar (M) @ Choice Band
    Trait: Sand Stream
    EVs: 156 HP / 252 Atk / 100 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Stone Edge
    - Pursuit
    - Crunch
    - Superpower


    Gastrodon (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Storm Drain
    EVs: 252 HP / 244 SDef / 12 Spd
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Scald
    - Ice Beam
    - Recover
    - Toxic
  9. TheWaddleDeeKing

    TheWaddleDeeKing

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2012
    Messages:
    51
    Well, I decided to forgo most of the recommended sets, however I came up short in just about all of them. I have yet to try Choice Band Tyranitar, but forgoing Starmie over Tentacruel led me to be completely helpless against Conkeldurr, and a Specially Defensive Tyranitar led me to be walled by the same threats as before. I tried to use a double dancing Landorus, however this also led me to disappointment, as I could no longer force out physical threats. Potentially a Double Dancer Landorus-T could be used, which I have yet to try.

    However, dragonuser's suggestion of Sleep Talk on Heracross and a Specially Defensive Gastrodon did work wonders, so those have been changed.

    I'll attempt a Banded Ttar next, so I can clean up with my Heracross.
  10. Organization Member XIV

    Organization Member XIV

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2012
    Messages:
    669
    Nice bulky offense team you have here. I'm not sure if you are still open to considerations for Tentacruel replacements, but if you are, you could try an offensive Suicune in its place. The perks Suicune have over Tentacruel are better overall defenses as well as 90 Base Special Attack compared to Tentacruel's 80. The set is:

    Suicune@Leftovers
    Pressure
    Modest Nature
    EVs: 252 SpAtk, 252 Spe, 4 HP

    Calm Mind
    Hydro Pump/Surf
    Ice Beam
    HP Grass

    While slower than Tentacruel, Suicune still provides an Ice and Water resist that is, overall, bulkier and has numerous opportunities to set up in the OU Metagame. Feel free to tweak the set however you see fit. Losing out on Giga Drain sucks, but HP Grass only has five less base power. Leftovers is generally the better choice as Life Orb would really wear you down, although feel free to use Life Orb if you want to.

    EDIT: For comparison:

    Suicune's Defenses: 100 HP/115 Def/115 SpDef

    Tentacruel's Defenses: 80 HP/65 Def/120 SpDef

    Suicune's Offenses: 90 SpAtk/85 Speed

    Tentacruel's Offenses: 80 SpAtk/100 Speed

    Both have their pros and cons, but I feel that CM Suicune with HP Grass makes a better bulky Pokemon for checking opposing Water types than Tentacruel, as Suicune's base defense is 115 as opposed to Tenty's 65, which allows Suicune to take hits from Gyarados a LOT better than Tentacruel can.

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