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The Defense of the Titans Project - Mark II

Discussion in 'BW OU' started by alexwolf, Dec 4, 2012.

  1. alexwolf

    alexwolf King of Conquerors
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
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    approved by Haunter, Matthew, Harsha & Pocket

    The Defense of the Titans Project
    (The structure and template is mostly taken from the DH project, so credit to Birkal)

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Hello everyone, and once again welcome to the Defense of the Titans Project. Me and Pocket are in charge of it, and it will be referred to as the DT Project from now on for everyone's convenience. The DT Project has two main goals:


    1. Exploring the potential of stall teams in today’s metagame

    With the advent of BW2, many powerful and centralizing Pokemon were introduced in OU, such as Thundurus-T, Genesect, Keldeo, and Tornadus-T. Most of those Pokemon have incredible offensive stats, as well as the moves, speed, bulk, and abilities to abuse them. This led to a decrease of both the popularity and the viability of stall in OU. Stall is more difficult to build than ever, as well as use, preventing most players from fully exploring the potential of such teams, and seeking success with more user friendly and easy to build type of teams, such as Rain Offense or Weatherless Heavy Offense. The fact that stall, as a playstyle, is labeled as ''boring'' and ''unattractive'' by many players doesn't help stall's popularity at all. So here comes the first goal of this project, to encourage the usage of stall, allowing us to reach to a better and more well thought decision about the viability of stall, and furthermore a better view of the metagame as a whole.

    2. Increasing diversity

    I don't know if this goal is a byproduct of the first one, but regardless I feel the need to address it. To the eyes of many players, the OU metagame is stale, boring and very centralized around a few threats, even more than usually. One of the main reasons of this belief is the lack of popular and effective playstyles in the OU ladder. Except from half a dozen of team archetypes, at most, namely Rain Offense, Weatherless Heavy Offense, Bulky Offense, Sun Offense, and DragMag offense, every other playstyle is left in obscurity, especially more defensive based steam such as semi-stall and stall teams. And because only a few types of teams are being used, certain Pokemon that flourish in more defensive teams see very little usage, many of them which have a lot of underused potential. So the second goal of this project is to increase the diversity of OU, by encouraging the use of more defensive Pokemon. If those Pokemon are better and more viable than we think will be decided to a degree by you, the participants of this project.

    Rules:

    This project, simply put, aims at recognizing users who put forth the effort to create a competitively successful stall team. Anyone with a Smogon account has a chance of reaching the Hall of Fame within this project. Here are the rules by which this project is run:
    • Each team must have at least five Pokemon that will invest a minimum of 460 EVs in any of their HP / Def / SpD / Spe stats, as well as a nature that doesn’t increase any offensive stat (Atk and SpA). This means that you are only allowed to use one offensive Pokemon maximum in your team.
    • Moves that boost offensive stats are banned (Dragon Dance, Calm Mind, etc). The only exception is the offensive Pokemon you are allowed to use. You can still run a defensive Pokemon with Calm Mind, Dragon Dance or other such moves, but it will be counted as your offensive Pokemon.
    • ***NEW RULE*** If someone wants to use a team that doesn't fit the rules but is very close in doing so, then he can PM this team to me, so i can send it to a team of people that will review it and decide if it should be accepted or not. The team of those people will be announced to you in the following days.
    • You MUST use a new Pokemon Showdown! Username in order to restart your ladder ranking. Furthermore, the DT team that you are working with can be changed at will, as long as it meets the requirements.
    • Do not start laddering for this project until you have registered within this topic.
    • Please follow the rules. The DT Project isn't about being dishonest; it's about developing great stall teams! As a result, cheaters will most likely end up being banned from the Hall of Fame.
    • It is recommended that you post consistent ladder updates within your registration form. This will allow other users to see your progress and offer meaningful advice!

    Registration:

    You are eligible to register for the DT Project at any time of the month! The third post in this topic contains an index for easy access to all participants, so don't worry about your Registration Form getting lost in the sea of discussion. Get started by filling out the below form:

    Remember, your "Pokemon Showdown! Username" should be new so that your DT team will be starting from scratch. Your "Hall of Fame Standing" should be empty for right now. But once you're admitted into the Hall of Fame, feel free to update this part with links to your accomplishment!

    Once you've registered, you're all set to go! You can start teambuilding and laddering whenever you like. Feel free to update your registration posts whenever you like, whether it be with ladder ranking updates, your teammate selections, battle logs, sprites, or whatever you wish to do!

    Discussion:

    This topic also serves a second purpose to initiate discussion on battlers' teambuilding and laddering progress; in this thread, you share your struggles and success, and reflect upon your DT teams role and effectiveness in the current OU metagame. This thread is not only a place to show off successful challenges, but also a place to help each other achieve their goals via posting your problems and receiving quality input from others. Challengers should not hesitate to post their teams and/or team ideas to receive help from the community. You are allowed to post your thoughts and opinions. However, here is a "Do and Do Not" list that posters in this topic must adhere to:


    • Do post and share sets for your DT team.
    • Do provide explantion about the synergy between the Pokemon in your DT team.
    • Do pinpoint which threats in the metagame need to be covered.
    • Do ask questions about the current OU metagame and teambuilding.
    • Do give meaningful answers to asked questions. This can include suggested sets, teammates, and strategies.

    • Do not post insignificant updates. Each post should be well thought and unique.
    • Do not ask someone to make the team for you. Team building is YOUR job (and a fun one at that).

    Hall of Fame:

    Now comes the competitive aspect of this project. Once you've reached a ranking within the Top 100 on Smogon's competitive OU ladder (with a minimum Glicko2 rating of 1950) with your DT team, you are eligible to enter the Hall of Fame! The Hall of Fame is located within the post below the OP and recognizes each user that has entered its halls. Once you've reached the Top 100, please fill out the following Hall of Fame Registration Form:

    As with the regular Registration Form, you are encouraged to upload battle logs, teammates, and other relevant information. Since you're entering the Hall of Fame with a successful team, many users would love to hear some wisdom on how you accomplished that goal. So feel free to post a summary of your team (similar to a RMT), battle logs, and general thoughts. Once you've filled out this form, you'll be accepted into the Hall of Fame, which will link to your Hall of Fame Registration Form and other relevant links.

    Finally there will be different levels on the Hall of Fame, depending on how successful you were with the team. The biggest your ranking, the higher you will rise to the list. So now that you know the rules, get registered and start team building! If you have any questions, send me a VM/PM. Best of luck!
  2. alexwolf

    alexwolf King of Conquerors
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
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    Discussion and Learning

    This post will be dedicated to discussion about stall, which is one of the most important aspects of this project. In this section there will be saved any helpful independent posts that explain integral elements of stall's function and success in the modern metagame.
    Also everyone that qualifies for the Hall of Fame will be called to answer the questions below, and everyone is free to discuss them, add its own input, and raise new questions. These answers will be saved in the HoF section for anyone to see. Any post that will help the people understand how stall is built and how it works, is a welcome addition to this project, and good posts will be saved in this section, as already mentioned. So except from keeping a record of the best stall teams of the participants, we will also be keeping a record of the best posts in this thread, allowing new players to quickly get a taste of what stall is by reading these well written posts. Without further ado, here are the questions that every HoFer is expected to answer:

    Feel free to answer any of these questions. It can be anything from a few sentences to an essay. Sharing your learning and thoughts is an incredibly important part of this project. So get writing and keep on laddering. Keep it up!

    Helpful Posts Archive:

    December's Archive (open)
    DarkBlazeR - 1 post

    November's Archive (open)
  3. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnus
    Doubles Co-Lead

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2004
    Messages:
    8,580
    Current Hall of Fame (3):

    Be one of the few to conquer the Ladder with your Stall Team, and you will be forever recorded in our Hall of Fame! Remember, admission now requires you to obtain the Top 100 on Showdown's ladder with minimum glicko2 rating of 1950. Who will become this month's Grand Master?!

    Gold Class: 2199-2100 & top 25 (1)
    - DarkBlazeR - [​IMG] Rain Stall
    "(...) Skarmory is definitely the team's MVP. Being able to take almost all unboosted Physical hits like a champ, set up Spikes reliably and shuffle the enemy team around are three factors I couldn't really cope without. Taunt is the highlight of the set though: stopping anything slower from setting up, giving Skarmory relative impunity."
    Peaked at: 2131 (#9) on 12/4/2012
    Full Team (open)
    Politoed @ Leftovers
    Trait: Drizzle
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spd
    Bold Nature
    - Scald
    - Toxic
    - Perish Song
    - Protect

    Tentacruel @ Leftovers
    Trait: Rain Dish
    EVs: 252 HP / 236 Def / 20 Spd
    Bold Nature
    - Scald
    - Toxic Spikes
    - Rapid Spin
    - Protect

    Skarmory (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP / 224 Def / 32 Spd
    Impish Nature
    - Taunt
    - Spikes
    - Whirlwind
    - Roost

    Jirachi @ Leftovers
    Trait: Serene Grace
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SDef
    Sassy Nature
    - Stealth Rock
    - Thunder
    - Iron Head
    - Wish

    Celebi @ Leftovers
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 HP / 224 SDef / 32 Spd
    Calm Nature
    - Psychic
    - Leech Seed
    - Heal Bell
    - Recover

    Zapdos @ Leftovers
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 248 HP / 152 SDef / 108 Spd
    Calm Nature
    - Substitute
    - Roost
    - Thunder
    - Hidden Power Ice

    Silver Class: 2099-2050 & top 50 (1)
    - kalamadude - [​IMG] Rain Stall
    "(SubCM Latias) is the most dangerous special sweeper in the game and is unparalleled as a last Poke standing sweeper. Many teams, offensive and stall simply have no contingency plan for Latias."
    Peaked at: 2078 (#49) on 12/19/2012
    Full Team (open)
    Politoed @ Leftovers
    Trait: Drizzle
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SAtk
    Bold Nature
    IVs: 30 Atk / 30 Spd
    - Toxic
    - Refresh
    - Perish Song
    - Scald

    Tentacruel @ Leftovers
    Trait: Rain Dish
    EVs: 248 HP / 244 Def / 16 Spd
    Bold Nature
    - Rapid Spin
    - Toxic
    - Scald
    - Protect

    Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
    Trait: Iron Barbs
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
    Impish Nature
    IVs: 0 Spd
    - Leech Seed
    - Gyro Ball
    - Protect
    - Spikes

    Bronzong @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SDef
    Sassy Nature
    IVs: 0 Spd
    - Earthquake
    - Stealth Rock
    - Toxic
    - Gyro Ball

    Latias (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 30 Atk / 30 Def
    - Calm Mind
    - Recover
    - Substitute
    - Dragon Pulse

    Garchomp (M) @ Rocky Helmet
    Trait: Rough Skin
    EVs: 248 HP / 164 Def / 96 SDef
    Impish Nature
    - Earthquake
    - Sleep Talk
    - Dragon Tail
    - Rest

    Bronze Class: 2049 -1950 & top 100 (1)
    - jaredz99 - [​IMG] Hail Stall
    "The primary goal of this team was to whittle down opposing pokemon with residual damage from hail and spreading toxic. The primary means of achieving this was with a Stallrein "sweep", although that was certainly not necessary."
    Peaked at: 1965 (#83) on 12/8/2012
    Full Team (open)
    Abomasnow (M) @ Expert Belt
    Trait: Snow Warning
    Shiny: Yes
    EVs: 252 Atk / 112 SAtk / 144 Spd
    Lonely Nature
    - Wood Hammer
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Ice Shard
    - Earthquake

    Forretress @ Leftovers
    Trait: Overcoat
    EVs: 252 Def / 252 HP / 4 Atk
    Relaxed Nature
    IVs: 0 Spd
    - Rapid Spin
    - Stealth Rock
    - Toxic Spikes
    - Gyro Ball

    Blissey (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
    Bold Nature
    - Aromatherapy
    - Softboiled
    - Seismic Toss
    - Toxic

    Walrein (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Ice Body
    EVs: 232 HP / 252 Def / 24 SDef
    Bold Nature
    - Substitute
    - Protect
    - Blizzard
    - Toxic

    Latias (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 0 Spd
    - Calm Mind
    - Dragon Pulse
    - Roost
    - Psyshock

    Gliscor @ Toxic Orb
    Trait: Poison Heal
    EVs: 252 HP / 184 Def / 72 Spd
    Impish Nature
    IVs: 30 Atk / 30 SAtk / 30 Spd
    - Earthquake
    - Toxic
    - Roost
    - Taunt



    Hall of Fame Archive (10): (click on the poke icon for more info!)
    HoF Archive (fully updated XD) (open)
    Platinum Class: 2299-2200 & top 10 (1)

    1. Kidogo: Rain Stall
    11/15/12 – 2209 (#1) - [​IMG]
    (Ladder alt Iambic; Discussion Response; First Peak & Team)

    Gold Class: 2199-2100 & top 25 (1)

    2. Mosquiton: Rain Stall
    11/4/12 – 2135 (#18) - [​IMG]
    (First Peak & Team; Log Replay)

    Silver Class: 2099-2050 & top 50 (4)

    3. Princess Bri: Sun Stall
    11/4/12 – 2086 (#41) - [​IMG]
    (Discussion Response)

    4. Lady Alex: Weatherless Stall
    11/7/12 – 2066 (#27) - [​IMG]
    (Discussion Response)

    5. Tizio Potente Ao: Scarf Aboma Stall
    11/6/12 – 2065 (#42) - [​IMG]
    (First Peak & Team; Discussion Response)

    6. Melee Mewtwo: Weatherless Stall
    11/17/12 – 2061 (#6) - [​IMG]
    (Discussion Response)

    Bronze Class: 2049-1950 & top 100 (4)

    7. GatoDelFuego: Scarf Tar Stall
    11/3/12 – 2043 (#77) - [​IMG]
    (Discussion Response)

    8. cmurph: Rain Stall
    11/7/12 – 1993(#88) - [​IMG]
    (Ladder alt Bigtool09; Discussion Response)

    9. Neliel Tu Oderschvank: Rain Stall
    11/4/12 – 1993 (#91) - [​IMG]
    (First Peak & Team)

    10. papai noel: Rain Stall
    11/5/12 – 1982 (#98) - [​IMG]
  4. alexwolf

    alexwolf King of Conquerors
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
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    Messages:
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    Registered Participants
    (credit to alkinesthetase for the format)

    PLEASE KEEP YOUR REGISTRATION UP TO DATE. When you achieve HoF status with a Stall Team, always update the original post! That way, when we need to update our lists, we can just skip through the registration list. You can make a new post as well to let us know, but always make sure the updates for ladder ranking, alt name, etc are in the original post. We cannot guarantee that we will notice ANY data outside of them. Alkinesthetase spent over two hours updating DH's list last month; doing this saves us a lot of time.

    Be tenacious and ladder to the top!

    If you've already reached the Hall of Fame this month, you can continue to participate in the project by improving your Hall of Fame record even further.

    ~~~

    Last Update: Jan 3th 3:48:32 AM[Eastern European Time GMT +2 forum time]

    Current Participants: 21 (Newest: Meru)

  5. Dice

    Dice what's a god to a nonbeliever
    is a Tutoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis Smogon Frontier's Arcade Star

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2012
    Messages:
    2,035
    User name: Princess Bri
    Alt: stallish homegirl
    Ranking: n/a

    I'll use sand this time!
  6. DarkBlazeR

    DarkBlazeR

    Joined:
    May 20, 2009
    Messages:
    387
    Username: DarkBlazeR
    PS! Alt: Dironx
    Ranking: N/A
  7. StairFall

    StairFall

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2012
    Messages:
    223
    I'll register soon, looking forward to actually competing this time but I have a question first. Would max hp/ max speed cosmic+stored power sigilyph count as an offensive pokemon? Technically cosmic power boosts the strength of stored power but it doesn't boost my offensive stats directly. So does that make it an attacking pokemon?
  8. Ryuuki

    Ryuuki

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2012
    Messages:
    112
    Username: Ryuuki
    Ranking: 1297

    since this project is running agein, is it okej to run CM or Qurse as long as there's no move that can benifit from the sp.atk/atk boost and count it as a deffencive pokemon? ex Quagisre with Qurse, scald, slack off and toxic.
  9. alexwolf

    alexwolf King of Conquerors
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2009
    Messages:
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    Cosmic Power, Amnesia, Stockpile, and any move that doesn't boost Attack or Special Attack is allowed.

    If you want to use it as your offensive Pokemon then ok. If you already have an offensive Pokemon and want to use Curse Quagsire then you must PM me your team and i will tell you if your team can particiapate, as the 3rd rule says.

    ----------------------

    Important Announcement

    Anyone that wants to use a team that breaks the current rules but is very close to falling under them should PM its team to me, as the 3rd rule in the OP states. Don't ask here if you can use anything that breaks the rules.
  10. Manitary

    Manitary

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2012
    Messages:
    277
    Username: Manitary
    PS! Alt: Threepwood
    Ranking: ACRE 1926 -- Glicko2 2082+-111 (provisional) -- W13 L3
  11. DarkBlazeR

    DarkBlazeR

    Joined:
    May 20, 2009
    Messages:
    387
    Made it after four hours of solid laddering, 25-3. I was doing two to three battles at a time to speed things up, given how slow climbing the ladder can be when running a stall team. I used a variant of a previous stall team I had great success with in BW1.

    PS! Alt: Dironx
    DT Full Team: http://pastebin.com/Pr1qdKZM
    Screenshot of Top 100 Ladder Ranking:
    Show Hide
    [​IMG]


    What are the roles of Pokemon that were essential to your stall team's success?

    Bar none, being able to get hazards up was the most important part of my stall strategy. Given the aggressive, fast paced nature of BW2, sometimes I had to make sure I got some hazards up ASAP, so to neuter the impact of the metagame's top threats. I didn't want my team members to be easy set up fodder, so I made sure each one could hold their own somewhat offensively. Having all three types of entry hazard was vital, depending on the individual game situation. People may bash Toxic Spikes for example, but there were games when they gave me a massive advantage, especially vs. rival stall teams. SubRoost Zapdos, whom this team was built around, greatly benefits from the passive damage they dole out each turn, allowing it to fulfil its role much more effectively. Having a good spinner is also essential: stalling becomes ever so more difficult with hazards on your side since you're constantly switching around. Tentacruel is the ideal defensive spinner as it isn't worn down so easily thanks to additional Rain Dish recovery + Protect. I ran rain stall as opposed to sand or hail stall as I've found that sand/hail can tend to work against you more than it benefits your team's cause, as getting the 6.25% Leftovers healing each turn can be game changing over time - losing that is far from ideal. Though a spin-blocker is the norm for a good stall team, in my case I simply didn't see the worth: the only good spin-blocker in my opinion is Jellicent, which didn't fit on the team due to it exacerbating my team's Electric weakness. Having a cleric in Celebi was more important - keeping the team healthy from unwanted status conditions (though 8 PP really sucks in extended matches).

    What was the most useful Pokemon in your team and why?

    Though Zapdos is the team's centre-point and undoubtly the coolest member, I'd have to say that Skarmory is definitely the team's MVP. Being able to take almost all unboosted Physical hits like a champ, set up Spikes reliably and shuffle the enemy team around are three factors I couldn't really cope without. Taunt is the highlight of the set though: stopping anything slower from setting up, giving Skarmory relative impunity. I didn't miss Brave Bird too much as with hazards up, Whirlwind was often dealing more consistent damage than Brave Bird anyway (and besides, I find recoil moves to be a bit of an oxymoron on a defensive 'mon).

    What were the biggest threats to your stall team, and how you dealt with them?

    My team's defensive core was incredibly solid, so there were very few true threats to my team. Perhaps the biggest single issue was Terrakion, since I lacked a very physically bulky Fighting resist to take it on reliably. It could most certainly be played around though: it is worn down very easily with Spikes + Toxic Spikes, neither can it really set up on anything, and the choice sets can be outpredicted. Though an untimely crit would be devastating, the vast majority of the time I was able to outplay my opponent enough to emerge victorious no matter what they brought to the table. Baton Pass teams as a whole were the biggest nuisance overall - a well played one would almost certainly beat my team. The best shot I had was to get Toxic Spikes up ASAP and try and kill Mr. Mime so I could Perish Song the chain with Politoed, though this isn't always guaranteed to work.

    Did you find it easy or difficult to build a successful stall team?

    Definitely not easy. It's all about covering what's relevant with only six slots, whilst also having a good strategy rather than just sitting around and taking hits. You have to make compromises, so be prepared. No matter how good of a team builder you are, your team will always have at least one significant weakness. However, being able to come up with a solid team that has at least has a chance against any playstyle common in the metagame is more important than trying to cover everything. Don't be afraid to experiment - strive for excellence, not perfection.

    How did you reach the Hall of Fame? Was it easy or difficult? Did having a stall team benefit you? What advice would you give to those laddering with stall teams?

    Despite my relatively swift ladder run, this was far from an easy challenge. As I mentioned before, critical hits really suck, and were almost soley responsible for two of my three losses. I'd say using stall teams can definitely be beneficial when you aren't cursed by the hax gods, but do require much more patience and nerve than offensive teams. Never give up though! As frustrating as stalling can sometimes be, often your worst enemy is yourself. Keep at it, and make changes to your team if necessary. If you're willing to stay focused for longer matches (and perhaps even play multiple games at once as I did), you should find yourself climbing up the leaderboard.

    Overall.. definitely fun but occasionally rage-inducing. I'm probably going to try the challenge again with something a bit different... ;)
  12. jaredz99

    jaredz99

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2010
    Messages:
    59
    Alright, I'm signing up with a team of MixBelt Abomasnow/Stallrein/Forretress/Gliscor/Sp.Def Jirachi/Blissey. I think that Gliscor technically doesn't meet the 460 EVs requirement but it's the standard defensive set, I'll PM you.

    Username: jaredz99
    PS Alt: KansasCityChief
    Ranking: Not yet.
  13. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnus
    Doubles Co-Lead

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2004
    Messages:
    8,580
    Whoa, DarkBlazeR - that was incredible speed in which you completed this challenge (and with Gold to boot!) Man, you're awesome!

    Cool team, too - Taunt Skarmory and SubRoost Zapdos is definitely a cool perk of your team. I must say, though, your team looks terribly weak to NP Thundurus. I'd replace Jirachi's Thunder for Body Slam to help with this. DragMag teams are also a bitch - Ice Beam on Politoed helps, as well as giving Jirachi U-turn > Stealth Rock. You can add Stealth Rock on Celebi instead, maybe over Leech Seed.

    But most of all, congrats!!
  14. DarkBlazeR

    DarkBlazeR

    Joined:
    May 20, 2009
    Messages:
    387
    Yeah you pretty much hit the nail on the head, NP Thundurus-T is a big problem for this team, fortunately I never ran into it whilst playing in this ladder run (only Scarf sets) which is why I forgot to mention it lol. Thanks for the feedback, I will definitely take it into consideration as I am still planning on using this team and perfecting it. I'm a bit attached to Leech Seed on Celebi I must admit, but yeah I don't mind making sacrifices, as I've mentioned in my post. Body Slam on Jirachi does sound good though, however I do like being able to nail Tentacruel/Jellicent for a strong hit, and the ability to beat SubDisable Gengar, whom is also a significant threat otherwise.

    One change I have considered myself is HP [Ice] > Roar on Zapdos. Having a secondary phazer is always nice, and I imagine it would make Zapdos even more of a troublemaker in the late game when hazards are down. Coverage against Venusaur/Garchomp/Thundurus-T would be sorely missed though.
  15. KRageToo

    KRageToo

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2012
    Messages:
    12
    I guess I'll give it a try this month.

    Pokemon Showdown! Username: WallRage
    Hall of Fame Standing: N/A
    Current Ladder Standing on Pokemon Showdown!: N/A
  16. WashedLaundry

    WashedLaundry

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2012
    Messages:
    39
    Just starting on Christmas break soon so I'll sign up.

    Pokemon Showdown! Username: WashedLaundry
    Hall of Fame Standing: N/A
    Current Ladder Standing on Pokemon Showdown!: N/A
  17. lokt

    lokt

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2012
    Messages:
    186
    Pokemon Showdown! Username: sandstall
    Hall of Fame Standing: N/A
    Current Ladder Standing on Pokemon Showdown!: N/A
  18. superstar

    superstar

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    Jul 25, 2011
    Messages:
    320
    On that set, Stockpile is much better than Curse because it boosts both defenses.

    Pokemon Showdown username: Childish G
    Current Hall of Fame Standing: None
    Current Ladder Standing: None
  19. Ryuuki

    Ryuuki

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2012
    Messages:
    112
    Yea I realised that after I've looked up all of it moves, but I just used it as an example.

    I'll do that as I might run into that problem but we will see =)
    Also may I do some changes to my team or must I register it as a new account? I don't want to break any rules =)
  20. jaredz99

    jaredz99

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2010
    Messages:
    59
    Starting with a new alt b/c substantial team changes and several losing streaks. I stalled out at about 1840 on the last one, just under the top 100 reqs :P

    EDITED because the alt I had chosen was already taken :\

    REAL new alt: HailFighting
  21. tw1g007

    tw1g007

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2012
    Messages:
    7
    Darkblazer your team while pretty cool and covering many basis is still prone to mixed set Hydreigons especially since most of them now carry earthquake. Kyurem-B while not really popular could severely damage your team also. If Jirachi switches in it and takes the physical thunder attack, it won't be able to heal in time since it lacks protect [basically cube hits you hard 3 or so times to your death or pray to the hax gods the paralysis thunder sets in and gives you a chance]. Once Jirachi is dealt with, no one else in your team stands much of a chance against its ridiculous Outrage (on a weakened team) or its other super effective attacks. Also you are slightly weak to a Rotom-W + Pursuit Tyranitar pairing. If you switch in and check the volt switch with Celebi then you put yourself in a 50/50 position if the TTar carries say [Fire Blast or most likely Crunch] and Pursuit.

    Now I guess shed shell would also be an option but is better suited in a tournament since Magnezone essentially beats Skarmory for free with Thunderbolt and slowly chips away at Jirachi. Basically, if such scenerios happen with a typical dragmag team then its gg for your opponent. Gothielle also wrecks major players in your team like Skarmory and Tentacruel especially. Dugtrio is manageable with a little bit of prediction and strong emphasis on breaking its sash asap.

    I am still not even sure about Zapdos' placement on the team to be honest. I guess its a reliable check for thunder attacks but seeing how popular Rotom-W is, chances for Hydro Pump on a switch in is pretty likely. Zapdos is the only possible replacement I can see to cover major flaws while trying to perfect your team but since you stated it plays a central role then I don't know who else you could switch around at this point.

    I guess thats the annoying thing about stall. You really can't cover everything.
  22. SoulMuse

    SoulMuse

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2012
    Messages:
    73
    Username: SoulMuse
    PS! Alt: SwordsDancer
    Ranking: None yet....

    Might as well use this as an excuse to actually try stal...and make an account here.
  23. S0L1D G0LD

    S0L1D G0LD

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2012
    Messages:
    2,706
    i'll sign up.

    Username: S0L1D G0LD
    PS! Alt: S0L1D G0LDdt
    Ranking: N/A
  24. Brave Bird spam

    Brave Bird spam

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2012
    Messages:
    54
    Created a smogon account to participate in this project :]
    PS! Alt: TheTrollMaster
    Hall of Fame Standing: None as of now
    PS! Ladder Ranking: 1000(I think that's where the alt starts at)
  25. Milos

    Milos

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2008
    Messages:
    359
    Pokemon Showdown! Username: 1999
    Hall of Fame Standing: n/a
    Current Ladder Standing on Pokemon Showdown!: none as of yet

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