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The Defense of the Titans Project

Discussion in 'BW OU' started by alexwolf, Nov 3, 2012.

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  1. GatoDelFuego

    GatoDelFuego No matter if it seems so hard, friends are near
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    Alexwolf can I just say that that is an amazing team in action there. A very unique and effective playstyle that really shines when stacking up hazards.

    Also that guy who beat you using Genesect, Kyurem, and Volcarona he must be some kind of expert player.
  2. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
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    Bri, doesn't Terravolt negate Unaware like Moldbreaker?
  3. dice

    dice infinite bliss flows but does not ebb
    is a Contributor Alumnusis Smogon Frontier's Arcade Star

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    I'm not sure lol. Maybe it's a glitch?
  4. Princess Bubblegum

    Princess Bubblegum

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  5. Bossness

    Bossness

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    Yes. That is definitely a glitch.
    http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Teravolt_(ability)

    Effect

    In battle

    When a Pokémon with Teravolt is brought out, the message "<name> is radiating a bursting aura!" will be displayed.
    Teravolt negates the effects of Abilities that weaken or negate moves or the side-effects of moves.
    Teravolt nullifies the following Abilities: Battle Armor, Big Pecks, Clear Body, Contrary, Damp, Dry Skin, Filter, Flash Fire, Flower Gift, Friend Guard, Heatproof, Heavy Metal, Hyper Cutter, Immunity, Inner Focus, Insomnia, Keen Eye, Leaf Guard, Levitate, Light Metal, Lightningrod, Limber, Magic Bounce, Magma Armor, Marvel Scale, Motor Drive, Multiscale, Oblivious, Own Tempo, Sand Veil, Sap Sipper, Shell Armor, Shield Dust, Simple, Snow Cloak, Solid Rock, Soundproof, Sticky Hold, Storm Drain, Sturdy, Suction Cups, Tangled Feet, Telepathy, Thick Fat, Unaware, Vital Spirit, Volt Absorb, Water Absorb, Water Veil, White Smoke, Wonder Guard, and Wonder Skin.
  6. Kidogo

    Kidogo

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    Here are my thoughts on the questions concerning stall in this meta:

    - What
    are the roles of Pokemon that were essential to your stall team's success? Rapid spinning was very important, especially having a spinner that could get a spin off reliably against deo-d + gengar strategies. A revenge-killer that is able to revenge boosted threats was super valuable, as stall teams often are prone to set-uppers sweeping them. A scarfed trick user was extremely helpful as well as a kind of emergency button.

    - What was the most useful Pokemon in your team and why? Scarftios probably ended up being the single most valuable pokemon on my team, as it basically either got off a trick, revenged a threat that otherwise would have swept the team, performed a mini-sweep in the endgame, or some combination of the above.

    - What were the biggest threats to your stall team, and how you dealt with them? The biggest threats were pokes that are difficult to truly counter--such as terrakion, genesect, and tornadus-t--I was forced to play around them instead of being able to go to a sure-fire counter. This is one of the reasons why latios was so important for the team.

    - Did you find it easy or difficult to build a successful stall team? Explain why.
    The initial process felt fairly easy--I knew I wanted to use rain stall, so toed was a given. The other early members (tentacruel, jirachi, gastrodon) fit in very quickly. The hard part was deciding on the last members, which were primarily there to cover the holes in the team--latios against set-uppers and celebi against status as well as some specific threats, such as breloom and keldeo.

    - How did you reach the Hall of Fame? Was it easy or difficult? Did having a stall team benefit you? What advice would you give to those laddering with stall teams?
    The good thing about a well-constructed stall team is that it tends to be very solid making laddering consistently easier. On the other hand, battles tend to take longer, meaning that the going is slower than with an offensive team. If you get used to playing with the team though, you can ladder pretty quickly though.

    EDIT: Also, thanks for the team comments alexwolf. I've never really thought about thunder on latios, but it definitely seems like a very valid option. Psyshock is nice though for hitting the blobs harder, especially if I've tricked away their eviolite/leftovers. Also, without psyshock subCM keldeo can pretty much 6-0 the team. I'll definitely give thunder a try though.
    Toxic on cruel is an idea, but I really love the scouting protect gives, as well as the extra recovery. I have toxic on a couple pokes already, and sub + protect is actually really nice on cruel. Toxic is a definite option though, and might be worth it if only to beat jellicent.

    Kyurem-B has been fairly low-key in the matches I've played against him--nothing can survive a couple banded outrages, but on the other hand latios just comes in and OHKOs (with SR at least). Sub sets can be problematic, but jirachi works well at taking anything except for banded fusion bolts. One poke that has been very threatening is subsalachomp, which really can sweep pretty much the whole team if it gets to set up. I've considered putting HP [ice] on celebi to serve as a better chomp counter in general, but can't find the moveslot and don't really want to replace psychic--any thoughts? I find celebi suffers a ton from 4MSS.
  7. Dark Sphynx

    Dark Sphynx

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    Pokemon Showdown! Username: Psycho Dark
    Hall of Fame Standing: none yet
    Current Ladder Standing on Pokemon Showdown!: none yet

    Stall FTW!

    This is my team

    Show Hide
    Latios (M) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd / 4 HP
    Timid Nature
    - Draco Meteor
    - Psyshock
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Trick

    Hitmontop (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Intimidate
    EVs: 252 SDef / 252 HP / 4 Atk
    Careful Nature
    - Rapid Spin
    - Close Combat
    - Stone Edge
    - Toxic

    Sableye @ Leftovers
    Trait: Prankster
    EVs: 252 SDef / 252 HP / 4 Def
    Calm Nature
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Night Shade
    - Recover
    - Taunt

    Landorus-Therian (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Intimidate
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
    Impish Nature
    - Stone Edge
    - Earthquake
    - U-turn
    - Knock Off

    Jirachi @ Leftovers
    Trait: Serene Grace
    EVs: 252 HP / 224 Def / 32 Spd
    Impish Nature
    - Body Slam
    - Stealth Rock
    - Wish
    - Iron Head

    Swampert @ Leftovers
    Trait: Torrent
    EVs: 252 SDef / 252 HP / 4 Atk
    Careful Nature
    - Waterfall
    - Roar
    - Toxic
    - Ice Punch
  8. nooblikeaboon

    nooblikeaboon

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    Pokemon Showdown! Username: orgasm
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  9. pokemon13245999

    pokemon13245999

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  10. Tizio Potente Ao

    Tizio Potente Ao

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    - What are the roles of Pokemon that were essential to your stall team's success? Rapid Spinner and Hazard Setter

    - What was the most useful Pokemon in your team and why? You can also talk about defensive cores here.
    Ok, the most useful pokemon in my team is blissey because she's the only pokemon who can toxic and win 1vs1 against jellicent and she can tank special hits like dmeteors.
    Other really useful pokemon were gastrodon and abomasnow.
    Gastrodon counters rotom-w and is a safe switch on jirachi and genesect without gdrain.
    Abomasnow can revengekill dragons and waters.

    - What were the biggest threats to your stall team, and how you dealt with them?
    The biggest threats to my stall team were keldeo-r and genesect.
    With genesect i usually try to scout the set and then send blissey or genesect.
    With Keldeo-r i can poison him with tspikes and revengekill with aboma.

    - Did you find it easy or difficult to build a successful stall team? Explain why.
    I really like stall teams so that was quite easy

    - How did you reach the Hall of Fame? Was it easy or difficult? Did having a stall team benefit you? What advice would you give to those laddering with stall teams?
    I stopped play pokemon like 5 months ago and i started to play again with this event but it was quite easy when people didn't hax me.
    The only advice that i'd like give to those laddering with stall teams is be unpredictable.
  11. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
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    Aw Tizio, it's awesome to hear that this project made you play Pokemon again (GJ, alexwolf xD)

    Updated the best post archive up to page 2 ;x
  12. Somebody Anonymous

    Somebody Anonymous

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    Pokemon Showdown! Username: SomebodyAnonymous
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    Current Ladder Standing on Pokemon Showdown!: 1000


    Currently using this team:
    Show Hide

    Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
    Trait: Iron Barbs
    EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SDef
    Bold Nature
    IVs: 0 Spd
    - Spikes
    - Stealth Rock
    - Leech Seed
    - Toxic

    Tentacruel @ Black Sludge
    Trait: Rain Dish
    EVs: 252 HP / 100 Def / 156 SDef
    Calm Nature
    - Toxic
    - Scald
    - Knock Off
    - Rapid Spin

    Snorlax @ Leftovers
    Trait: Thick Fat
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
    Careful Nature
    - Return
    - Whirlwind
    - Rest
    - Sleep Talk

    Deoxys-Defense @ Leftovers
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 252 HP / 56 Def / 200 SDef
    Bold Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Night Shade
    - Toxic / (Psycho Boost?)
    - Cosmic Power
    - Recover

    Blissey (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
    Bold Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Aromatherapy
    - Seismic Toss
    - Defense Curl
    - Softboiled

    Volcarona (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Swarm
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Bug Buzz
    - Fire Blast
    - Giga Drain
    - Quiver Dance


    Should I use toxic or Psycho Boost on Deoxys-D?
    Any threats you see?
  13. Sacaen

    Sacaen

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    Without Taunt, that Deoxys D will just end up getting toxic'd, phazed, or set up on.

    I would reccomend the Toxic Staller set listed on smogon instead. Taunt is necessary.

    Deoxys-Defense @ Leftovers
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 252 HP / 56 Def / 200 SDef
    Bold Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Taunt
    - Toxic
    - Recover
    - Agility / NightShade

    Also, give Ferrothorn Gyro Ball somewhere, it prevents it from being taunt bait, and it actually hits quite hard. Great for killing outraging dragons among other things, like espeon.

    Also also, while this isn't in any way necessary, you have 0 protect users. I'm a big fan of protect as it really lets you scout out your opponents team much faster and more safely, stack up leftovers recovery, stall low pp moves out, and stack up toxic damage.
  14. dice

    dice infinite bliss flows but does not ebb
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    Would anyone mind giving a quick rate on the team I posted here? I just cannot seem to get it working as consistently as I would like.
  15. Mailman

    Mailman

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    What Pokemon give you trouble?

    Anyways how are you supposed to stop Kyurem-B, that's my biggest problem by far, it's borderline insane for stall.
  16. Kidogo

    Kidogo

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    I made silver I believe!
    http://imgur.com/8Jmuf

    The current version of my team has ferro over gastro--
    @Mailman, ferro is like one of the only semi-reliable defensive checks to kyu-b. Jirachi with some speed investment also works fairly well. There's very little that can come in on a banded outrage, but power creep is power creep.

    Hey bri! :D
    Nice team, although it really seems to me like it would benefit from having politoed on there--it essentially seems like a rain team without the starter. Failing that, I think you should definitely have a ghost (probably jelli or, my favorite, sableye) and possibly a pursuiter to help against opposing stall (I guess gothitelle traps, but I'm not sure what). I'd change chansey's set to perhaps Softboiled / SR / Seismic Toss / Heal Bell--I always find a cleric invaluable on a stall team, and skarmory really doesn't have the time to lay both rocks and spikes IMO (although if you find the time, definitely keep it on skarm). I might also go for the standard dnite shuffler set with twave > flamethrower, steels don't seem to be too big of a problem for you.
    Also, what about using stockpile quaggy? A set like Stockpile / Recover / Toxic / EQ or Scald could work and could do a better job of walling threats on both sides of the spectrum.
  17. Lady Alex

    Lady Alex I asked Mawile to not hurt me. I was betrayed.
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    If it all possible, I would suggest replacing Wish on Chansey with Stealth Rock to alleviate some of the pressure on Skarmory. If you make this change, Taunt on Skarmory can allow you to set up hazards with Ferrothorn in without letting it set up too. It also let's you get full layers up on Toxicroak. Lastly, I would invest enough Defense EVs on Quagsire to ensure that you avoid a 2hko from Salamence's Outrage. If you do that, Curse will probably be less effective, and replacing it with Toxic would probably be appropriate.
  18. Neliel

    Neliel Sacred Sword

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    Ok, some days ago i stopped laddering with "lolstall2" because its nearly impossible to find people that does not hax you. The problem its not just hax, but the sets that "noobs" people use, for example i lost a battle due to Thunder punch Breloom and Energy ball Reuniclus, i think that everyone knows how it feels when you see set like this and you lose to it. So i started laddering with my old account "neliel", which was already high on the ladder, and i used a stall team from 2000 to 2148, reaching #1, and i havent lost a single battle. I wonder how is this possible, i lose against stupid sets and then i won against skilled people high on the ladder? is it me or stall teams tends to do a way better against skilled people?
  19. malomyotismon

    malomyotismon

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    The answer is simple and it's why i hate laddering, noobs use random moves and strategies your not prepared for. While top battlers you know what to expect more as you know what works they know what works, so the best man usually ends up winning on skill and knowledge.
  20. alexwolf

    alexwolf Fear the D
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    ***New Change***

    Nothing major, but i decided to change the goal of archive. Instead of collecting the best independent posts, me and Pocket will be collecting any helpful post, short or long, that explains useful aspects of stall, be it moves on a pokemon, spread of a pokemon, teammates of a pokemon, general strategy or whatever. This way any player unfamiliar to stall that comes in this thread will be able to quickly browse some general useful and to the point information that he can use to get into stall. So guys keep posting, and be sure that if you know what you are saying and your post has good logical structure, your post will get in the archive!

    ------------------------------

    @Kidogo

    I definitely agree that having a good spinner is aboslutely vital for stall team's success. Unfortunately Tenta and Fat Starmie are the only spinners that can handle Deo-D + Gengar, which is a shame because then you have problems picking other very useful Pokemon, such as Jellicent, the best spin blocker in OU, or Gyarados, an awesome physical wall that checks a ton of special attackers and provides team support with D-Tail and Intimidate. And let's not forget that if you want Tentacruel to beat Deoxys-D, you need to use rain, meaning one more water type, so a third water type is something really unwanted. It is also true that Forretress really struggles to find opportunities to spin right now, but it is still the best spinner to use if you want to run Gyarados or Jellicent in your team (which i do). Except from the lack of opportunities he has to get in, another problem is that he can't get past spin blockers, so he obviously needs help from its teammates to do so. For example Scarf Tyranitar and Scarf Gothitelle can both OHKO Gengar while preventing it from switching out. Ttar can 2HKO Jellicent with Crunch if it decides to stay in, or Pursuit her if it switches out, but it really comes down to a 50-50 guessing game. However Scarf Gothitelle can Trick its Scarf to Jellicent and slowly kill her with Tbolt. So tl;dr Forretress + Scarf Gothitelle is a good combo to help Forre spin.

    Also it seems that you enjoyed using a Scarf user in your stall team too. Tbh it seems almost as if a scarf user is a necessity, from what i have seen from players that have participated, including me, and having one really takes away a lot of stress of your walls when teambudiling, and gives you more room for error (crits, misplays, etc).

    @Somebody Anonymous

    Your team seems in need of quite a few changes. For starters your team is super weak to Terrakion, Keldeo, physical Fire types, and Dragons. I am also not a fan of using dual hazards on a pokemon, as it puts too much stress on it. Imo you should remove Toxic and SR from Ferro, and give it Protect and Gyro Ball/Power Whip. If you want with a weatherless team you should really use an anti-weather core such as Heatran + Latias, or Celebi + Heatran, or even Dragonite + Ferrthorn. So if you want to start improving your team first make sure you have answers for the threats i mentioned, and also an anti-weather core. Then post the team again so we can help more!

    In general stall teams are much more prone to lose against random bad players than offensive or balanced teams. This happens because if a bad player surprises your wall, that was supposed to wall this threat, with a random move, and OHKOes, you are screwed, unlike offensive teams, which can gain the lost ground with good play and pressure. This is definitely a nuisance when laddering with a new account, but it has to be endured.
  21. StairFall

    StairFall

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    To be fair thunder Punch Breloom isn't totally random, it's listed as one of the viable moves on showdown and helps get past flying types if stone edge's accuracy is off putting so our own simulator is kind of misleading new players. I agree though, teams are designed to counter other teams so when you fight something that isn't standard in the metagame you often lose. It wasn't your fault you didn't expect to see a counter destiny bond Gengar, that shouldn't exist in gen V.
  22. chaos 9

    chaos 9

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    Guess I'll try this. Probably won't work well though, as my luck is heinous!

    Pokemon Showdown! Username: Llats
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    Current Ladder Standing on Pokemon Showdown!: none yet

    Leggo
  23. ssbbm

    ssbbm

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    bri curse is illegal
  24. alexwolf

    alexwolf Fear the D
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    @princess bri

    Yeah Curse is a stat up move that boosts Attack, so it is banned (you can only use it on your offensive Pokemon). Before i can comment on your team i want you to tell us which are the most valuable and useful members so far, and which pokes have not been performing as well as you thought they would. Oh and you are Torn-T weak, which is bad. If you want to at least have a better chance at dealing with Torn-T, give to Goth a Scarf so it can revenge kill it after SR.
  25. superstar

    superstar

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    I would also like to say that stall works much better higher up on the ladder than it does lower. High ranking players use the best strategies, and a smart player can counter all of those strategies. It is impossible to stop all the bad offensive threats, but it is feasible to stop all the relevant threats.

    UPDATE:
    Okay, so currently I'm working with a team of Skarmory, Chansey, Sabelye, Politoed, Tentacruel, and Jirachi.
    ALL of these Pokemon are defensive. I've gone 10-1 on Showdown so far. Some notes:
    Sabelye is very good as a spinblocker. I find Substitute works well to scout peoples moves and count as a pseudo-protect
    Starmie + Terrakion + Breloom + Hazards is absolutely brutal. I need all 6 of my Pokemon except for Politoed against them. I lost when I did because Sabelye got slept early, so I was unable to get a burn on their SD Terrakion -- clean sweep. It's also easy to wear Skarmory down, since I have to run shed shell, otherwise Magnezone + Haxorus/Moximence takes an enormous crap all over my team.
    Thinking of switching to ScarfToed just to revenge kill stuff. However, I would still need him to have Perish Song.

    Vaporeon is almost unbeatable. Any thoughts on how to get past him?
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