The Defense of the Titans Project

[The Quasar]

Pokemon Showdown! Username: RingAroundTheMoon
Hall of Fame Standing: none
Current Ladder Standing on Pokemon Showdown!: none yet (I have just to build a team for it) ;-)

 

[Neliel]

I would like to know how do you guys use jellicent. The standard smogon says only 44 evs in speed, but i think that it should be a lot more. jellicent in fact only reaches 167 speed which is very slow, and if you use jellicent with taunt you are going to lose against a lot of things i think. For example, Bulky politoed is still faster than you and it can toxic you before you can taunt it, and Specially defensive heatran can do the same thing, not to mention some faster Scizor with pursuit that you cant wow before they pursuit you, and the same is for tyranitar, for example Choice band tyranitar. In my experience i also used Fast blissey with flametrower to stop volturn core ( it can ko scizor and completely wall rotom-w) so i think that jellicent should also outspeed some set like this. Skarmory for example is faster and can spikes, and it can be annoying. However, i ended up doing this spread:

Jellicent (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 108 Def / 148 Spd
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Scald
- Will-O-Wisp
- Recover
- Taunt

This is my offensive pokemon (lol) since i had to put so many evs in speed. let me know what do you think about it, if im losing too much bulk for example. Oh, and is shadow ball usefull at all? starmie seems to always have psyshock and scald, and if it has Thunder then it has life orb and no recovery, so its not a big problem i think.

 

[Miracle Eye]

i restarted my alt too, now it's " mjfgj"

 

[alexwolf]

@Princess Bri

Congrats for getting HoF, well deserved! I totally get what you mean about criticals, as you can lose a game that you didn't deserve to, just because the RNG will screw you eventually when dragging out the game for so many turns. But don't get disapointed and keep trying, i am sure you can do even better!
It would also be nice if you could answer the questions that i have in the OP for those that get into HoF, so that we can understand better how your team works, and maybe offer some heplful advice.

@Neliel Tu Oderschvank

All that speed is not needed. Usually all you need to do is speed creep a little, to outspeed standard defensive Politoed that may run 4 or 8 Speed. Outspeeding Heatran is a possibity too, but you lose out on too much bulk imo.And all Scizor are either running 8 Speed, or max Speed, so speed doesn't help with this bug.

Btw i have been using Scarf Gothitelle in my team and i can say that i am impressed. The moveset is Psychic / Tbolt / T-Wave and Trick. Gothitelle acts as Scarf Tyranitar, except that it can trap anything, and can't deal so well against Lati@s. You remember the part that stall teams can't cover anything? That's were Gothitelle comes into play. For example my team has problems with Torn-T, as i have no solid counter to it. That's why i use U-turn Celebi, to lure Torn-T in and go to Gothittele, removing it from the rest of the game. Gothitelle also helps against Deo-D, Terrakion, and any spin blocker. I recommend you guys use it too it is amazing!

EDIT: Please guys when abandoning your alt and chosing a new alt, please update your first post, or else i might miss it. It is still easy to find it, but after a bit it will get difficult to keep track of them if we don't keep them organized.

 

[Prinz]

I restarted my alt and I edited my last post, it is now Believe It.

 

[Ernesto]

Nice, now I can go back to working with my DH Team. I'll just have to make some adjustments to meet the requirements, but that team is staying lol

alt: gogo slowbro
HoF standing: none
Current ranking: 1000

 

[Ninetale3]

This looks fun

Alt: Ninetale3titan
Hall of fame standing: none
Current Ranking: 1,471

Let's see how non scarfed stall holds.

 

[alexwolf]

Princess Bri after taking a closer look at your team, it seems that offensive Heatran is a huge problem to your team... I think that in the sun it 2HKOes everything, and can freely switch into most of your team. How do you deal with it?

 

[dice]

Obviously Heatran is an issue for the team given the nature of the team.. (Sun with no duggy) however Offensive varients are rare and I did run into two Sub-Toxic Offensive varients and Fire Blast only did 38% to Blissey. Venusaur can lure Heatran and Blissey can wall most varients D: The most annoying things to the team are definitely physical fire-types but they're rare. Vs Darmnitan I just have to sack shit until it dies really, Victini I have to get asleep after a V-Create, and Infernape just sucks. I could use Night Shade on Sableye but Foul Play is just so good and prevents CM Espeon with Morning Sun 6-0'ing me.

 

[GatoDelFuego]

I've found that after laddering and replacing Slowbro with Gyarados, outside of its ability and typing, gyarados is completely useless. It can do nothing. It never even got down to the point where it could use rest...on a bulky team it might work well, but not on stall.

The problem is, my team needs an alternate answer to Landorus and Scizor. Gliscor doesn't even work for scizor, so it may need to go. Otherwise, I'll just stick with getting straight up 6-0'd by landorus, if it means covering pretty much else.

 

[alexwolf]

@Princess Bri

Yeah physical Fire types murder any sun stall team without Heatran, but as you said are somewhat rare. Infernape is a bad poke atm, Darmanitan is very rare, and only Victini is still somewhat common. And you are right that offensive Heatran is a bit rare, and only LO or Specs variants can get past Blissey, so as long as Blissey is healthy you will be able to handle it. Finally definitely keep Foul Play on Sableye, aside from Espeon it helps against a ton of other things, such as Alakazam and Starmie.

@GatoDelFuego

I completely disagree. I have been using RestTalk Gyarados in my stall team for the last 10 games, and it is really good. His typing and ability are awesome, and he is the reason i can handle BandChomp without Skarmory. Not to mention that he helps immensely against DragMag teams, because unlike Steels it can't be trapped by Zone. The only real downside is SR weakness (RestTalk has been ok for me, especially with Heal Bell support).

And if you want to solve your Landorus problem i really suggest trying Celebi with Heal Bell instead of Amoonguss, and use Shed Shell and Rest on Heatran to handle Genesect.

 

[Ninetale3]

I've found that after laddering and replacing Slowbro with Gyarados, outside of its ability and typing, gyarados is completely useless. It can do nothing. It never even got down to the point where it could use rest...on a bulky team it might work well, but not on stall.

The problem is, my team needs an alternate answer to Landorus and Scizor. Gliscor doesn't even work for scizor, so it may need to go. Otherwise, I'll just stick with getting straight up 6-0'd by landorus, if it means covering pretty much else.

With a little prediction, sigilyph does a good job at beating scizor and to an extent physical landorus or any physical attacker on that note. Though I don't know your team so I don't know if this would be counter productive due to the typing.

 

[GatoDelFuego]

The only problem with replacing my two regenerators to cover these specific threats is...well, losing two regenerators. It really hurts the overall effectiveness of the team, and without a complete overhaul I see no way to handle the combination of Genesect, Landorus, Tornadus, and Terrakion. Oh well. Does this make it a bad stall team? Well, no, I suppose, but it still burns to get put in that checkmate position on those matches.

At any rate, smogon should collectively decide to never use genedug again. If anyone uses genedug, they should just be branded a total noob, equivalent to baton pass. It's just a weak strategy.

 

[Mosquiton]

For the moment i got Bronze Class, tomorrow i'll continue.

Hide

Stall battles make me bore, indeed i usually play offense, but is too fun to use ditto :D

My Team

Hide

Politoed (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Drizzle
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Protect
- Toxic
- Perish Song

Ditto @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Imposter
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Spd / 4 Def
Jolly Nature
IVs: 30 Atk / 30 Def
- Transform

Skarmory (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Sturdy
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Impish Nature
- Brave Bird
- Roost
- Spikes
- Whirlwind

Jirachi @ Leftovers
Trait: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
Sassy Nature
- Thunder
- Wish
- Stealth Rock
- Iron Head

Tentacruel (M) @ Black Sludge
Trait: Rain Dish
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 240 Def / 16 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Substitute
- Toxic
- Rapid Spin

Gastrodon (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Storm Drain
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Relaxed Nature
- Ice Beam
- Recover
- Toxic
- Earthquake

I leave also a log where i had sweeped with ditto, i call this "how to fuck with Ditto :D"
http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ou3870137

 

[alexwolf]

I didn't say to replace both Regenerators, just Amoonguss. And if SD Scizor is too much of a problem you could always use Fire Fang on Gliscor, which also allows it to beat Skarmory, and Forretress without HP Ice 1 on 1. I don't think that SubToxic Gliscor is very good right now anyway...

So you could use Gliscor with EQ / Fire Fang / Taunt / Roost, Celebi with Heal Bell / Perish Song / Recover / Giga Drain or Psychic, and Heatran with Lava Plume / Roar / Stealth Rock / Rest and Shed Shell as the item.

EDIT: Congrats Mosquiton, you proved that stall with Ditto can be successful!!! Keep it up!

To everyone that makes it to HoF: Please guys answer the questions that i have in the OP, they are integral to this project's goal, and will help both you and the others.

 

[Princess Bubblegum]

Gato, the only other things that can take on Scizor are jellicent and skarm, Jellicent might be able to go toe to toe with special-Landorus.

idk, I am not doing so hot, its probably because of regirock, but I also had a rough start, so now I am climbing the ladder very slowly, so its not to bad, and I actually don't think its been the source of my woes

my current team

Hide

Regirock @ Leftovers
Trait: Clear Body
EVs: 252 HP / 56 Atk / 200 SDef
Careful Nature
- Stone Edge
- Fire Punch
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

Jirachi @ Leftovers
Trait: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
Careful Nature
- Iron Head
- Body Slam
- Wish
- Protect

Latias (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Dragon Pulse
- Recover
- Calm Mind
- Refresh

Forretress @ Leftovers
Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Relaxed Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Spikes
- Pain Split

Slowbro @ Leftovers
Trait: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SAtk
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Psychic
- Ice Beam
- Slack Off

Gliscor @ Toxic Orb
Trait: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 200 Def / 56 Spd
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- Roost
- Stealth Rock
- Taunt

Again, Id like to keep regirock until I am positive its total shit, and then I might just swap with something else for genesect, probably heatran.

A few rare things can beak through the same, some versions of magnezone, defensive CM keldeos, and HP-ground Volcaronas. But so far, the biggest reason for my losses is interestingly bulky waters. Almost every team has one, and if Latias goes down, Im fucked, a combination of pursuit Scizor + a bulky water can really be the end of me, I can't run like change type or sub on Latias because I need refresh or else I just flat out lose to toxic bulky waters.

I don't really see a good answer for this problem outside of switching Jirachi for Blissey / Chansey, but that just opens up more problems. Blissey with flamethrower could work over Latias for countering Venusaur, but I really like Latias's ability to check a stupid amount of things and sweep teams outright, also it leaves me with a Breloom and Keldeo weakness.

 

[dice]

mosquiton on ditto use 252 HP / 252 SDef / 4 Def with a sassy nature and 2 outspeed iv's for hp ice. you want the lowest speed possible ^__^ oh and i'm writing my hof response now~

also why regirock

 

[GatoDelFuego]

Mosquiton, you actually have silver! The ranking is based on glicko, not ACRE. In fact, if you rose one more place you'd be gold!

 

[Mosquiton]

lol, really?

ps: thank you Bri

 

[Je-Muzu]

Just want to inquire, how people are finding the project, in regards to battling in the metagame, cause its about time stall was in the limelight, to slow down all the offense, and increase diversity. But congrats to Gato del fuego and Princess Bri on theres HoF status and too many more, and a shout out to Alexwolf for the project. now i can't bulit stall very well, so well done to all who are taking part.

 

[GatoDelFuego]

At any rate, I'd rather not edit 2 or three of the pokes that are integral to the team I have. Really, the core of Heatamoonbro (yes, heatamoongbro) was just such a blast to use I'm just not sure what I'd do without it. It's just not as much fun without amoonguss there, who is just amazing. The downside is really having a team that can't compete with the best players' HO stuff. The only way I'd replace these things is by making a new alt, and that's just not what I'm going to do. It took forever to grind up to where I peaked, and after falling 150+ points and only gaining about 9 points on average per 9 minute match, it's just not worth it. I'm probably going to abandon this team, although it has been without a doubt the most fun I've had playing pokemon in a long, long time. Am I allowed to enter twice with two different teams? I may switch to something like rain stall, as I have a couple of ideas for a new team.

Honestly, stall can be one of the most frustrating things in pokemon but also the most rewarding. I'd go so far as to call it the most "risk-reward" in terms of personal pleasure as a playstyle. It's not like HO laddering, where if you get haxed you can just forfeit a match and start over, and grind through 30+ matches an hour. You truly have to put work into both battling and teambuilding...I'd equate stall to the feeling of wi-fi breeding in the real games on Pokemon Showdown! Sometimes you'll get swept by that one thing that puts you in a bind, but the other half you have the most fun playing around teams and just stalling them out. The people who say stall isn't fun just haven't had that good experience yet. It's so worth it to be 6-0'd by a landorus for the achievement of 6-0ing a bulky offense team with no offensive pokemon. I like that my team was able to best both DT and DH, but there's nothing I can do to improve it and still retain that feeling in my opinion. I'll be starting a new stall team, if that's ok to do.

 

[alexwolf]

Very informative post GatoDelFuego! Of 'course you can compete with two or more accounts, as long as you they are new accounts. Or you can just make small changes in your existing team, and try to break your own record. Swapping Amoonguss for Celebi is perfectly acceptable by this project's rules.

Je-Muzu thanks for your good words. Even if you are not a good teambuilder it's not a problem, as one of this project's goals is to learn how to build stall teams. If you have a pokemon or an idea, around which you wish to build a team, go ahead and tell us. You can be sure that helpful advice will be offered gladly!

 

[elodin]

Pokemon Showdown! Username: curandeiro
Hall of Fame Standing: none
Current Ladder Standing on Pokemon Showdown!: none

I started laddering now, here is the team I'm using:

...

Politoed @ Leftovers
Trait: Drizzle
EVs: 252 HP / 232 Def / 24 Spd
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Toxic
- Perish Song
- Protect

Tentacruel @ Leftovers
Trait: Rain Dish
EVs: 252 HP / 176 Def / 80 SDef
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Toxic Spikes
- Rapid Spin
- Protect

Skarmory @ Leftovers
Trait: Keen Eye
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SDef / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Brave Bird
- Spikes
- Roost
- Whirlwind

Jirachi @ Leftovers
Trait: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP / 232 Def / 24 SDef
Bold Nature
- Psyshock
- Thunder
- Calm Mind
- Wish

Quagsire @ Leftovers
Trait: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 200 Def / 56 SDef
Relaxed Nature
- Scald
- Earthquake
- Toxic
- Recover

Chansey (F) @ Eviolite
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SDef
Bold Nature
- Seismic Toss
- Stealth Rock
- Wish
- Softboiled

Everything is pretty open at the moment. I'm not sure if I should change some EV spreads and if I should change some moves, so help me out.

 

[GatoDelFuego]

It's not that I don't want to replace amoongus with celebi, but the fact that doing so would pretty much require me to ladder up twice with the same team...that's just not fun for me. My next team will be 100% rain stall, as on my way up jirachi and dragonite in the rain caused me HUGE problems. They don't seem very popular, and can definitely destroy standard rain teams in their tracks. The only problem with it will be sun offense...but that's a playstyle that doesn't seem to be around. I'll be sure to keep landorus in mind this time, though...what a powerhouse

 

[Princess Bubblegum]

also why regirock

regirock is about as close to a total genesect counter as one can get without being weak to dugtrio

That might be paranoia though, ive yet to see a team like that actually, maybe I am just lucky. Heatran could be an easy replacement, it also allows be to not run rocks on Gliscor or even swap it out. I can't think of any pokemon though that can take on both Scizor and bulk waters at the same time outside of maybe Zapdos, but that really puts a lot of pressure on forretress to spin.

idk maybe ill leave it to you guys: is there any pokemon that can go against bulky waters and scizor in one?