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The Defense of the Titans Project

Discussion in 'BW OU' started by alexwolf, Nov 3, 2012.

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  1. Sacaen

    Sacaen

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    Thanks! This sounds like a good idea and I'll start testing it out asap along with the EV changes to Blissey.
  2. czechm8

    czechm8

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    Name: ChillBrah
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  3. EtherDrive

    EtherDrive

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    Name: Tienty
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    Im going to try out Psywave/Night Shade/ Seismic toss in this meta
  4. DrunkDemon

    DrunkDemon

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    Wow, making sure you get everything covered with just six team slots can be pretty challenging, even with certain catch-all mons available. I'm getting my ranking up slowly, but it's a bit of a struggle. It's taken quite a bit of thinking to get a half-decent team, but I thought it might be a good idea to post my current team to see if there's any major threats I've forgotten about. Regarding the EVs, Sableye's spread is for creeping other Sableye, and Jirachi outspeeds HP Fire Magnezone.

    Show Hide
    Sableye @ Leftovers
    Trait: Prankster
    EVs: 248 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef / 4 Spd
    Calm Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Taunt
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Recover
    - Sunny Day

    Hippowdon (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sand Stream
    EVs: 252 HP / 244 Def / 12 SDef
    Impish Nature
    - Earthquake
    - Slack Off
    - Stealth Rock
    - Whirlwind

    Jirachi @ Leftovers
    Trait: Serene Grace
    EVs: 252 HP / 236 SDef / 20 Spd
    Careful Nature
    - Body Slam
    - Iron Head
    - Wish
    - Fire Punch

    Latias (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Spd / 4 SAtk
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Calm Mind
    - Recover
    - Refresh
    - Dragon Pulse

    Forretress (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
    Relaxed Nature
    IVs: 0 Spd
    - Rapid Spin
    - Spikes
    - Gyro Ball
    - Volt Switch

    Terrakion @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 HP
    Jolly Nature
    - Close Combat
    - Stone Edge
    - X-Scissor
    - Rock Slide


    edit: Hm, it's interesting that Sableye seems random, as it's the Pokemon I originally built the team around. I think the team would probably be more solid if I made that change, but Sableye is a big reason of why I enjoy this team... looks like I may have to go back to the drawing board.
  5. dice

    dice follow @smogmogu for hot content
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    I'm not very sure of why Sableye is on your team as it seems to be kind of random. Typically Sableye is used as a spinblocker if you need a good check to Psychic-types, Dark-types, and Ghost-types and a stallbreaker as well, one boon it has over Jellicent; however, you have a Jirachi on your team as well. I've always found having a Jirachi and a Sableye redundant, because they both check several of the same things even though their typing doesn't suggest so. Your team also seems like it has a random Terrakion thrown into the mix, I understand you were thinking of a revenge killer and a Volcarona check, but I think altering the team slightly would make the team much more effective. Your team currently lacks a bulky-water which I really like to have in a stall team, you also are somewhat Heatran weak. a faster Jellicent varient > Sableye really could suit your team well. It's an effective stallbreaker since it can Taunt slower walls which could harm your team much like Jellicent, and it's more of a 2-4-1 deal since it can check several things Terrakion is currently and having the Taunt'ing of Sableye put together in one. Volcarona is checked, you get a water immunity and an actual CM Keldeo counter, and a better Heatran check because of Lava Plume > Terrakion. Now, you finally have one last slot to try and fix up most of your other weaknesses. This is just a little advice, good luck with your team! I hope this makes your ladder more successful.

    ujelli (open)

    [​IMG]
    Jellicent (F obvi, pink pro y/n) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Water Absorb
    EVs: 248 HP / 96 Def / 164 Spd
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Toxic / Will-o-Wisp
    - Scald
    - Recover
    - Taunt
  6. GatoDelFuego

    GatoDelFuego This is what is technically known as a Firecat
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    Pringles man > gay pink jellifish

    At any rate, I think it's a good idea to have an offensive poke on a stall team, to use as a general "panic button" when you're backed into a corner. With tons of hazards everywhere, something like RP terrakion can be deadly. Scarf is good too, though as bri said, you may just want something else that can defensively check pokes.
  7. Lady Alex

    Lady Alex I asked Mawile to not hurt me. I was betrayed.
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    Updated my post with Screenshot of top 100 and team.
  8. GatoDelFuego

    GatoDelFuego This is what is technically known as a Firecat
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    So, while testing my rain stall team, I got a crit (for a whole 18% damage) against a heatran with dragon pulse with my latias. Then, he proceeds to bring in a thundurus and OHKOs me with HP ice. When complaining at all, he just tells me that I got a crit on his heatran and he didn't complain, and that I was "asking for it" because I was "using a stall team".

    After so much grinding, all of that work can just go down the drain with 1 6% chance of hax. It doesn't help that people have some stigma against people that use stall teams. That seems to be the reason stall is not a very popular playstyle to use.

    Very frustrating to work with, but still finding it worthwhile to outstall something.
  9. GatoDelFuego

    GatoDelFuego This is what is technically known as a Firecat
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    Name: Alice Twilight
    Current HoF Status: None
    Current Ladder Rating: 1000

    Working with a new team now
  10. dice

    dice follow @smogmogu for hot content
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    The longer you play the more you'll get critted, thus if you play stall you get critted more meaning you'll lose to hax more.

    It is kind of bullshit since if stall loses an integral member you pretty much auto-lose.. but what can do you? It's just part of this game.
  11. GatoDelFuego

    GatoDelFuego This is what is technically known as a Firecat
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    Still, after a thousand attacks the chance to get critted is still the same...it just always happens on the most inconvenient turns.

    At any rate, has PS done away with bonus pool? It seems it no longer is boosting my rating off a fresh alt.
  12. Sacaen

    Sacaen

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    I noticed this very quickly. I've had more rage directed at me for playing about 25 matches of stall than I ever had of ~400 matches playing my standard dual screen team.

    On the other hand, with my stall team I actually have a chance of surviving and recovering from crits. While on my dual screen, any crit was pretty much guaranteed to OHKO, but that's partly due to the nature of dual screens. While on stall you're much more likely to receive a crit, as you are the subject of attacks more, it is also not uncommon for those crits to still only hit for 20-30%, even super effective crits aren't always a guaranteed ohko.

    On my stall team the only poke that absolutely can't take a crit is sableye, but that's understandable as his stats aren't all that.
  13. GatoDelFuego

    GatoDelFuego This is what is technically known as a Firecat
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    The crits seemed to happen for me on those one turns when they just couldn't. For example, when healing up with my CM latias, I got to a level where I could take two attacks. On that one turn, I calm minded again, but he got a crit and got me within KO range next turn. Had the crit been the previous turn or next turn, it wouldn't have mattered, but it was the one turn that I couldn't take it due to boosting up. Got really annoying after about 4 hours of that.
  14. Princess Bubblegum

    Princess Bubblegum

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    I know this is a bit off topic, but what is the best way to deal with stall rage? If you ignore them they just end up writing sarcastic comments every time you do... what stall does, it can be quite annoying and make the match much longer than it should be. What are the best ways to just get these people to shut up and finish the game in your chatting experience.
  15. Lady Alex

    Lady Alex I asked Mawile to not hurt me. I was betrayed.
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    I usually respond with "^_^" and say nothing else. Sometimes I tell them they're bad and should quit, but maybe that's a bit too harsh DX
  16. alexwolf

    alexwolf Rain Summoner
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    I only missed a few hours, and look at all those posts. I would like to thank all of you that supported the DT Project so far!

    Now on to the discussion...

    @Neliel

    Use Perish Song>Refresh on Politoed, as otherwise last mon boosters such as SubCM Jirahi and CM Reuniclus destroy you.

    On Latias use max Speed with a Timid nature, as well as a moveset of CM / Sub / Dragon Pulse or Psyshock / Recover. You already have Wish support, and the coverage move is not really needed, because at +6 you will be killing anything regardless, and the things that wall you, do so even with Surf (Scizor and Ttar easily take a +1 Surf and OHKO back). Max Speed helps you handle Terrakion, which seems as a major pain right now.

    Also you should really replace Protect with Substitute and T-Spikes with Toxic, as with SubToxic you can get past every spinbloker in the rain, and can beat Ferrothorn 1 on 1. T-Spikes hardly do anything useful from my experience in this meta.

    Right now you are very weak to SD and CB Terrakion. as well as Torn-T paired with Dugtrio. For this reason i suggest you use a Physically Defensive Jirachi with a spread of 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD and a Relaxed nature. This way you will be able to play around Terrakion much easier, as the most common SD Terrakion, SubSalac and SubRockGem, can't OHKO Jirachi at +2, aloowing you to either paralyze or OHKO if Terrakion is weakened a bit. You also deal with Dugtrio much better, as it can barely 2HKO you with a physically defensive spread, meaning you can beat it slowly with Iron Head while recovering.

    Good team and congrats on the peak!

    @Sacaen

    Wish Support is not a must, and actually i prefer not using it at all, as relying to Wish to heal a teammate that has no recovery on its own can be difficult to do sometimes. So i make sure that all or most of the pokes in my stall team have reliable recovery. You can even use Rest on random Pokemon that don't have reliable recovery and a cleric to wake them up. Better than Wish passing imo. Toxic and Burn status are also not so vital. It is nice to have them, but don't limit yourself by trying to fit those moves into your stall team. If your stall team is good, and has the hazards and the synergy that it needs, then you will be fine!

    Also as others have said, i suggest you use RestTalk Gyarados instead of Slowbro. You have Heal Bell to wake him up if necessary, and he solves your Scizor weakness, while also helping you to deal with Breloom.

    And of 'course change Blissey's spread to the one that Pocket mentioned.

    @papai noel

    I believe that your team could benefit a lot from a Specially Defensive Celebi with a moveset of Psychic / Perish Song / Recover / U-turn. You are very SubM Keldeo weak currently, and Keldeo weak in general, as your only answer to it is Tentacruel, which although sturdy, won't last forever and straight up loses against SubCM. With Celebi you also get a real answer to Rotom-W except from Chansey, which is ridiculously easy to wear down with SR and Volt Switch. Psychic is used to 2HKO Conkeldurr, which could be troubling, as well as Tentacruel and Thundurus-T after SR. And last but not least, Celebi owns both Vaporeon and Tentacrule, which you had troubles with.

    Now that you have Perish Song on Celebi (to beat SubCM Jirachi, CM Reuniclus, etc), you can remove it from Politoed, and give it any of Encore / Refresh / Ice Beam or even HP Eletric to 2HKO Gyarados, which seems as a major threat. Also since Celebi beats opposing SubCM Jirachi, you don't really need CM on your own Jirachi, whih i assumed you used to check them. So you can replace CM with Stealth Rock, Protect or U-turn (for momentum, Magnezone and Dugtrio) and Psyshock with Iron Head, as well as use a Relaxed nature.

    Finally if you go with SR on Jirachi, Chansey has a free slot to use Toxic, in order to deal better with special attackers.

    @Lady Alex

    Really weird team you got there, don't really know what to say except from CONGRATS for making it to the HoF!

    -------------------------

    I should also let you guys know that by the end of the day me and Pocket will include some of the posts here in the best discussion posts archive.
  17. The Silent Storm

    The Silent Storm

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    Let's give this a shot.


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  18. Je-Muzu

    Je-Muzu

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    I'm gunna try it, i might aswell.

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  19. Mosquiton

    Mosquiton Tette

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    I start another account for try to peak another gold class

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  20. Level 51

    Level 51 by far the worst
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    Why not.
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  21. GatoDelFuego

    GatoDelFuego This is what is technically known as a Firecat
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    Working with a pretty anti-meta stall team and it works nicely, though for some reason after I made it people started to use Mamoswine in every single match. It may have some trouble against a sun team, but I haven't actually seen one in the past couple days of laddering
    thanks to sayonara for the latias (open)
    Dragonite @ Leftovers
    Trait: Multiscale
    EVs: 252 SDef / 252 HP / 4 SAtk
    Calm Nature
    - Hurricane
    - Thunder
    - Dragon Tail
    - Roost

    Jirachi @ Leftovers
    Trait: Serene Grace
    EVs: 4 SDef / 252 HP / 252 Def
    Relaxed Nature
    - Thunder
    - Iron Head
    - Wish
    - Protect

    Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
    Trait: Iron Barbs
    EVs: 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SDef
    Relaxed Nature
    IVs: 0 Spd
    - Spikes
    - Stealth Rock
    - Gyro Ball
    - Power Whip

    Tentacruel @ Black Sludge
    Trait: Rain Dish
    EVs: 240 Def / 252 HP / 16 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Substitute
    - Toxic
    - Scald
    - Rapid Spin

    Latias (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Spd / 4 SDef
    Timid Nature
    - Calm Mind
    - Roost
    - Dragon Pulse
    - Roar

    Politoed @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Drizzle
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Hydro Pump
    - Ice Beam
    - Surf
    - Perish Song
  22. Neliel

    Neliel Sacred Sword

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    Just saying you have two offensive pokemon which is not allowed i think (if you are using this for the project)
    anyway, calm mind latias does not work in this meta in my opinion. genesect is every where, and tyranitar and scizor are common, i think that wish protect with support of the toxic spikes really helps dealing with tyranitar (max defense latias can take two pursuit of cbzor and a non invested crunch of tyranitar)
    Without psyshock it also lose against Venusaur under sun, Sd Terrakion, since dragon pulse under sand does nothing, and sometimes even against calm mind Keldeo.
  23. DarkBlazeR

    DarkBlazeR

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    How are you guys team building/playing around SunSD Garchomp? It is most certainly a massive threat to stall teams at the moment. I'm pretty sure nothing can comfortably take hits from it at +2. Ice Fang Hippowdon and Ice Beam Cresselia seem like the closest candidates, though they won't help if Garchomp holds a Yache Berry (which most SD sets do).

    In fact, I'm finding that sun offense in general is incredibly difficult to wall. Though Heatran/Latias handle it well for the most part, the core can easily be caught out by things like Earthquake Venusaur, opening a sweep for another team member, e.g. Volcarona. Victini can also pretty much break through everything with its CB set.
  24. alexwolf

    alexwolf Rain Summoner
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    ^ RestTalk Gyarados checks Garchomp like a boss!

    +1 Outrage: 62.59 - 74.04%
    +1 LO Outrage: 81.42 - 96.18%
    Dragon Tail against Garchomp: 30.44 - 36.31%

    Not perfect but a very good check if you ask me.
  25. Neliel

    Neliel Sacred Sword

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    Sun sd chomp you say?I stop it with skarmory under rain, and this is one of the reason why i always want to switch my politoed into ninetales without fearing will-o-wisp (i use refresh indeed)
    In this way i can always have rain up, so that skarmory takes nothing by fire fang+2 garchomp, Victini also is a big problem if you let your opponent have the sun up, you cant switch your politoed into it since it can do fusion bolt. Max defense latias helps anyway, its a solid check to victini, sometimes even under sun.
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