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The Double Battle Metagame (GBU)

Discussion in 'Global Battle Union' started by Ashenlock, May 14, 2011.

  1. Ashenlock

    Ashenlock

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    I'm wondering if I should include in the OP a list of links to posts that contain people's thoughts on the GBU Doubles metagame, as in posts 18 and 19. What would y'all think about this? I can't list the "objective truths" of the GBU because it's too big a playing field to accurately say one thing or the other about it, so observations of trends and usages are the only thing I could add that wouldn't be misleading. If you want to participate with your thoughts on the metagame post a list of them that you think are important and I'll add a link in the OP (But if you have more things to add, try and just edit them into your one post, so that I don't have a giant list of links that no one wants to explore).
  2. Havak

    Havak I'm the Best. You're a Towel.
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    I started playing some Doubles GBU today with my VGC 11 team. I've had four battles on Rated, all of which I should have won, but three out of four opponent's disconnected. I was even more surprised that two of these who disconnected were Japanese, as from what I've seen they have more balls about them and have the honour to accept a defeat.

    My fourth match today was actually the first American I've faced on GBU, all of my other games have been against Japanese players (1 win and 2 disconnections on Rated, 1 defeat on Free). This game was against someone called Hudson with a Rating of 1693.

    I led with Scrafty and Jellicent, he led with Scrafty and Terrakion. I go for the Fake Out on his Terrakion to break a potential Sash, and Protect with Jellicent. His Terrakion flinches, and Scrafty's Crunch fails on Jellicent. His Terrakion goes for the Close Combat on Scrafty, which survives through Chople. Jellicent's Water Spout (with Water Gem) takes out Terrakion and leave Scrafty on maybe 25% which faints from Drain Punch (no Chople Berry I might add). Next turn, he sends out Cryogonal and Thundurus. I try to Drain Punch his Cryogonal which Protects, and his Thundurus OHKO's my Jellicent with Electric-Gem Thunderbolt (I selected Ice Beam hoping it was a Charti Berry version). I send out Terrakion and go for the Rock Slide. His Grass Knot hits first and brings me to red HP, while Rock Slide brings his Cryogonal to Sash and Thundurus survives on what must be 1 HP. Cryogonal's Ice Beam doesn't KO Scrafty and I Crunch it for the KO. He disconnects next turn when he can no longer win, as I would Crunch and Close Combat to KO, and he can't hit both of my Pokémon.

    It was nice to face a pure Unova team, as my other games have been against what I consider 'proper double teams' now, using past generation Pokémon. I'll be looking to build a team like this soon, but for now I'm sticking to VGC as I might be going to San Diego. It's interesting, but so far DC's are ruining things for me a bit. Hopefully it won't keep happening.
  3. Carl

    Carl or Varl
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    I had a good VGC match earlier today on Random WiFi Free Mode that actually finished: 91-83735-70411

    It wasn't a perfectly played game on my end but picking the perfect pokemon made it fairly easy. Just goes to show how important it is to analyze your opponent in the pregame. 42-4 so far..
  4. 133k

    133k

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    Thinking back to the PBR days (again) and remembered my old amazing(?) doubles strategy which used to do (surprisingly) well. I'll most likely try it again this gen, just "for fun". It went something like this (First of all, you should know the 3 pokes required to pull off such an amazing combination: Garchomp (Banded or Scarfed), Latios (Scarfed), and Chatot (Yes, Chatot)[Focus Sash'd], who was the focus of this little set-up):

    Turn 1

    Chatot with (usually) Garchomp. Chatot would get up a Nasty Plot as Chomp would EQ; Chatot always survived, Garchomp usually did as well.

    Turn 2

    Chatot would usually Protect, but it'd Hyper Voice or Heat Wave if I knew it could KO (or just skip to step/turn 3 if Garchomp fainted). If I used protect, I was hoping Garchomp would faint this turn after getting in another hit in, initiating the final phase of this oh-so-deadly strategy.

    Turn 3 (assuming Garchomp faints)

    Latios would come in and Trick Chatot it's Scarf, hopefully recieving a Focus Sash in return. Those two would usually proceed to wreck everything, with Chatot at +2 spA and +1 spd, while Latios... well, Latios. 'Nuff said. I called it the "ChatChomp combo", despite the strategy usually requiring Garchomp to faint.
  5. Tenodera

    Tenodera

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    Next time I see a Chatot, I'm focusing my fire on it! That's a neat strategy since most people would ignore the weaker Pokemon.
  6. Pokérob

    Pokérob

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    Except Chatot is banned on GBU for having the move chatter.
  7. 133k

    133k

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    You sure? I think it'd be (it is?) banned only if it currently has Chatter in it's moveset, kind of like Sky Drop.
  8. Ashenlock

    Ashenlock

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    I believe this is the case. Either way, Gen V's doubles is a much "stronger" metagame, and things that rely on multiple setup turns or on hoping that one of you pokemon is KO'd at the right time are much less viable than they were years ago. Delicate strategies only now work against poor opponents who could just be beaten by goodstuffs anyway. So my experience dictates, anyway.
  9. 133k

    133k

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    Sorry for my terrible Doubles terminology, but what exactly is "Goodstuffs"?
  10. Tenodera

    Tenodera

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    "Goodstuffs": A team of high-BST Pokemon thrown together to intimidate the opponent and generally rock their socks.
  11. muffinhead

    muffinhead b202 wifi vgc
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    goodstuff is a style of team that does not have a super specific goal (I.e. tailwind or trick room), but functions well against the majority of these teams. think double genies.

    I have been using a level one sash whimsicott with trick room and endeavor, and the majority of players (especially not from the u.s.) do not see it coming at all. It usually fires off two endeavors before going down. Originally, I had it paired with Scrafty, but I am thinking of switching to Kangaskhan for good old scrappy fake outs. Currently holding a record of 60-8. I hate seeing ttar chomp cresslia politoed kingdra etc D;
    has anyone used a drought team successfully? curious as to how well it works.
  12. Ashenlock

    Ashenlock

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    I had a very successful Drought team for a while, about to go to class but I'll edit in the details and numbers.

    EDIT: Here it is:

    [​IMG]

    Ninetales @ Wide Lens
    TIMID
    +Drought+
    6 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    -Heat Wave
    -SolarBeam
    -Nasty Plot
    -Protect

    [​IMG]

    Exeggutor @ Life Orb
    MODEST
    +Chlorophyll+
    6 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    -SolarBeam
    -Psychic
    -Sleep Powder
    -Protect

    [​IMG]

    Porygon2 @ Eviolite
    MODEST
    +Download+
    252 HP / 6 Def / 252 SpA
    -Ice Beam
    -Charge Beam
    -Thunder Wave
    -Recover

    [​IMG]

    Chandelure @ Lum Berry
    MODEST
    +Flame Body+
    6 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    -Heat Wave
    -Shadow Ball
    -Imprison
    -Trick Room

    [​IMG]

    Latias @ Light Clay
    TIMID
    +Levitate+
    152 HP / 100 SpA / 252 Spe
    -Reflect
    -Light Screen
    -Dragon Pulse
    -Protect

    [​IMG]

    Terrakion @ Sitrus Berry
    JOLLY
    +Justified+
    6 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    -Sacred Sword
    -Rock Slide
    -Swords Dance
    -Protect

    Very hastily thrown together, hence Flame Body Chandelure and some others, but it worked pretty well. Lasted me about 200 wins.
  13. muffinhead

    muffinhead b202 wifi vgc
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    :o thanks for that, wide lens heat wave hehehe. I'll be that one guy using cherrim when I get around to make a team. maybe even typhlosion o.o

    also you have 510 wins what the
  14. Ashenlock

    Ashenlock

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    It might be more if my summer dorm's network supported the DSi >.> I've tried every fastfood restaurant and a couple hotels. If anyone knows an adaptor that works for both Windows 7 and DSi, VM me or something, I don't want to drag this out in this thread. I will be eternally grateful.

    Back to the topic at hand: Yeah, Wide Lens Heat Wave is pretty cool, goes from an 81% chance of hitting both foes to a 98% chance, definitely worth the opportunity cost I think.
  15. Dimsun

    Dimsun
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    It seems this would be the place to mention this. I was playing against a Japanese player once on Rated Doubles GBU, and I noticed something interesting. When I hit his Intimidate Hitmontop, it used Eject Button to switch out, refreshing both Intimidate and Fake Out to be used again. After that battle, I immediately ran into another player with a similar strategy from his Hitmontop; has anyone else seen this?
  16. Ashenlock

    Ashenlock

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    I have not seen that, but you are right, that is interesting. I think I might have to try that out >.>
  17. wDro

    wDro

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    Actually eject button hitmontop is very popular in triple battle too. It would suck even more if your opponent also has another intimidater on their team.
  18. Virizion

    Virizion

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    I see that often, usually on PerishTrapping teams. I use a Technitop for it (I don't have one with Intimidate), but it's not nearly as good as you're only supposed to be preventing as much damage as possible, not dealing the most damage :L
  19. Carl

    Carl or Varl
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    Yeah, I've seen it the Eject Button Hitmontop before. Seems semi-standard for Japanese players.
  20. Ashenlock

    Ashenlock

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    Eventually I think Scrafty will take its place, though.
  21. Virizion

    Virizion

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    But the reason Hitmontop is used is because of Intimidate, lowering the opponent's Pokemon's Attack, so you can reduce damage dealt to your team

    Unfortunately, you can't have Hitmontop in the middle to Intimidate all three of their Pokemon and still trap all of the opponent's Pokemon on the field at the same time.
  22. Ashenlock

    Ashenlock

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    I mean "eventually" as in, when it gets Intimidate.

    EDIT: To make this post a little more useful: How do y'all feel about the exclusion of sleep clause, ethically? Do you turn a blind eye to Dark Void Smeargle, saying "He's only using the rules to their limits, as well he should," or get pissed and think "That's not good sportsmanship, to take advantage of it like that"? I've often thought of trying Dark Void Smeargle on some teams, but never committed to it because of conflicting views and fear of losing wins to DC's.
  23. bearsfan092

    bearsfan092

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    Just a thought, if VGC 2012 basically becomes this ruleset, which I think it could, expect some vast metagame changes as many more players flock to this mode for practice.

    Yes I know the last post here was 3 weeks ago.
  24. Ashenlock

    Ashenlock

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    I don't think there's any such thing as necro-posting here, and this is supposed to be an updated thread anyway. But to respond to the meat of your post: Yes, I think most avid 2v2 players have been waiting for a once again relatively "open" VGC metagame, a la 2008. I certainly am nervous and excited, myself. I think some people may want it to remain a "closet" metagame, and I kind of felt there was some appeal to saying "I play nonVGC Doubles," but most hardcore 2v2 players won't mind if flat battle Doubles and VGC Doubles become one in the same.

    I think people are paranoid about Drizzletoad in Doubles, and that may even be part of the reason for the exclusion of nonUnova Pokemon this year, but there are counters to auto-rain in 2v2 and I believe Smogon's VGC players would find and utilize them successfully. Nobody seemed to complain in 2008's VGC metagame about anything being "too strong" and I think that that was largely because they knew they couldn't do anything about it and were forced to become crafty and adapt.

    (The reason I mention 2008 so much is because I was basically absent from Pokemon for the 2 years between now and then)
  25. bearsfan092

    bearsfan092

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    As someone who hasn't dived into the tier, what exactly does one use to counter auto-rain? I know TR mostly screws over rain, and I suppose you could change the weather, but do you have any tricks that might be useful?

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