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The Dream Team

Discussion in 'BW Other Teams' started by Phozon, Oct 24, 2012.

  1. Phozon

    Phozon

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2012
    Messages:
    56
    What's up everyone. I learned to play competative pokemon through the VGC meta game and I must say, I love VGC. I always have and always will. So yeah. This is the same team I've been useing for 4 years and they still work very well in this meta even thought times and threats have changed!

    PERFECTION AT IT'S BEST

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]



    HOW THIS TEAM WORKS: Since everyone has a different play style I figure I would explain how this team works. I came from a diffeent site which is like the Smogon of VGC. They really tear apart your teams untill they are perfect. I learned how to play from them and what I was taught was that a doubles team should always have extremely high synergy, you should almost never used choiced pokes, and mixed sweepers are just a bad idea. I took all of these lessons and things I read though out the site and made a team of pokes that are very much anti meta. Each poke on this team has 1 job but they also work well with ANY poke as their partner. This team also has all the elements needed to take on ANY WEATHER or SET UP CONDITION. The bais behind this team is a DisQuake team, but it does more then just that. As you go down and read about each of these wonderful pokes, I hope you will see what I've learned and just how well they work togeather.



    [​IMG]
    Garchomp- Jet- Focus Sash
    Jolly- 252Atk/ 252 Speed/ 6 Hp
    Protect
    Earthquake
    Dragon Claw
    Crunch

    This is generally my "main lead". Her and Zapdos work togeather and do the EQ+ Dis spam. However, she is also used for late game clean up as well. Garchomp has always been one of my favorite pokes and on this team she can function to her fullest extent. While she normally gets paired up with Zapdos, Cresselia can also make a for a great partner as well. Cress is able to T-Wave/ Icy Wind things faster then Garchomp, makeing them slower and allowing her to out pace and be able to hit many things hard with STAB EQ or Dragon Claw. I chose to put Crunch on her because there was a large Cress weakness on this team as well as just to Psychic types in general.


    [​IMG]
    Zapdos- Lum Berry
    Timid- 252Speed/ 124Sp.Atk/ 136 Sp.Def
    Protect
    Thunder Wave
    Discharge
    Heat Wave

    Garchomp's, or even Donphan's main offencive partner. The pair of Garchomp and Zapdos can hit every single major threat in the VGC meta game extemely hard and with their moves almost no poke isn't hit for some kind of super effective dammage or at least neutral. The EVs are spred out the way they are for Zapdos to be able to out pace alot of things **abomasnow** and able to take a hit as well as fire off a few. As you may have noticed, all of Zapdos' moves are double hitting moves. This allows him to have the greatest hitting range of all the pokes on my team.


    [​IMG]
    Infernape- Inferno- Life Orb
    Hasty- 252 Speed/ 180 Sp.Atk/ 72Atk
    Protect
    Taunt
    Heat Wave
    Close Combat

    I know I said mixed sweepers are almost never used, but here is one of the few pokes in the VGC meta that can pull off a suicide mixed set. Infernapes main job is to shut down Tick Room. Thanks to gen 5 introducing alot of viable TR pokes, and with prior experence behind a TR team, I know how hard they can be to take out. Taunt stops them dead, and then he then proceeds to knock around everything hard. The cool thing is that Infernapes base speed ties with Terakion, allowing him to sometimes win speed ties and kill. I normally pair him with my Feraligatr and togeather the Fire and Water coverage is amazing. Honestly, out side of shutting down TR, he's just ment to keep hitting hard untill he drops.


    [​IMG]
    Feraligatr- Tempest- Water Gem
    Jolly- 252 Atk/ 252 Speed/ 6 HP
    Protect
    Aqua Jet
    Rock Slide
    Dragon Claw

    Now I know this seems a little bit out there. A Feraligatr? Isn't there some better water type? Nope! The one thing that makes this little gator special is his priority move; Aqua Jet. Priority is rare in VGC so finding a poke that fits well on your team and has access to priority is amazing! Feraligatr is in charge of shutting down rain teams. He normally leads with Cresselia and tears apart even the best built rain teams. Dragon Claw is for another way to hit dragons incase I lose Garchomp as well as helping to stop Kingdra cold. Since most Kingdra's in VGC are a Sub set, Dragon Claw breaks the sub and Cresselia T-Waves them and BEHOLD: a useless Kingdra. Aqua Jet is the main form of STAB and with a Water Jem it packs quite a punch. Rock Slide is to help out Infernape when they lead togeather as well as gives Feraligatr a way to hit both pokes on the other side.


    [​IMG]
    Donphan- Ro-Joe- Sitrus Berry
    Careful- 180Hp/ 72Def/ 252 Sp.Def
    Protect
    Ice Shard
    Seed Bomb
    Earthquake

    DO. NOT. KNOCK. IT. TILL. YOU. TRY. IT.This set... I have no words. I never ever thought I would use this on my team when I started building it but it works so well! This set takes hits all day as well as hits things very hard. EQ for the main STAB as well as going with the EQ+ Dis theme of the team. Ice Shard hits so many big threats in VGC hard like Garchomp, Latios, Tornadus, ect. Seed bomb may seem al little odd, but this team struggles with Gastrodon and Swamper SO mush that I slapped it on one day as a joke and it accually works very well. Donphan is able to OHKO a Gastro w/ 252HP and 72Def w/ Seed Bomb. She's more of an offencive tanking set and man does she do her job.



    [​IMG]
    Cresselia- Leftovers
    Calm- 252Hp/ 72Def/ 180Sp.Def
    Protect
    Thunder Wave
    Icy Wind
    Psychic

    Cresselia doing what Cresselia's do best; Walling to no end. She's a very importain member of this team as she offers alot of support to the team in the form of T-Wave and Icy Wind. Her main job is to make the opponets pokes to become praticly useless. She also makes a great partner to ANY of the other 5 members of this team as well.


    SO THERE YOU HAVE IT
    I don't think Showdown has a VGC ladder ( they should get one ) so I'm not going to leave an Exportable set unless someone can tell me another way that they could use this team. I hope everyone likes it and any suggestions to futher better this team would be awesome.


    THANKS AGAIN!
  2. voodoo pimp

    voodoo pimp Apply directly to the forehead
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnus

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    Looks like a pretty interesting team, aside from the overused ZapChomp :P

    A few of your Pokémon's EVs don't quite add up - Infernape, Donphan, and Cresselia are a few short, while Zapdos actually has too many. So make sure you double-check those numbers. Also, you didn't list any of their abilities.

    I'd go with Ice Punch instead of Dragon Claw on Feraligatr, since it hits dragons not named Kingdra about as hard (or even harder in the case of 4x weaknesses) while also giving you a lot more coverage on other things. I'd also consider dropping Protect for another move on Cresselia, since she can usually safely take some hits and has a lot of good support options. Helping Hand seems like the best option to me with so many spread moves on your team.
  3. Phozon

    Phozon

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2012
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    I tired Ice Punch once and this team really could not handle rain at all. I don't care how over used it is i still love the ZapChomp :P

    I kinda figured the EVs wouldnt ad up. Its like 2 AM and I really didn't feel like opening my team builder to double check XD I'll update those later.

    As fro Cress I have thought about takeing off protect, but that then means that Zapdos Can't use Dis w/o hitting her for dammage/ paraing her which would be no good :/. But other then that thanks for the help :D
  4. TheMantyke

    TheMantyke Larvitard
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    This VGC's over so I guess there's not much point behind my rate, but you have an interesting team on your hands. There's definitely some room for improvement though, so here's a quick rate for some playtesting suggestions.

    Would you care to explain Zapdos's EVs? Zapdos has some great bulk with its above average base stats and its fantastic array of resistances. I feel like using a faster Zapdos is a bit of a waste. The only justification for running so much speed you mention is outrunning Abomasnow which Zapdos does naturally with little to no speed investment. Choice Scarf variants will still outrun you regardless. Consider switching your nature to Modest and investing enough speed to edge out things like Heatran and Rotom-W.

    On the subject of speed, when you have a Cresselia with both Icy Wind and Thunder Wave, adding Thunder Wave on Zapdos seems really unnecessary. Consider running HP Ice or HP Grass for added coverage.

    Feraligatr's EV spread looks really inefficient. If you're using Aqua Jet as your main selling point, why maximize speed? Feraligatr naturally outpaces quite a number of key targets like Metagross and Hitmontop with no investment. I would suggest dumping your current spread for an Adamant 252 HP / 252 Atk spread or for an Adamant 100 HP / 252 Atk / 156 Speed spread which allows you to outrun a 4 Speed Rotom-W.

    Come to think of it, If you're really fond of strong Aqua Jets, you could consider scrapping Feraligatr altogether and experiment with an Azumarill in its place.

    [​IMG]
    Azumarill @ [​IMG]
    Huge Power
    Adamant
    252 HP / 252 Atk / 6 SpDef
    -Aqua Jet
    -Double Edge
    -Waterfall / Ice Punch
    -Protect

    You trade a lot of speed (somewhat irrelevant if heavily dependent on Aqua Jet) with Azumarill but get a whopping 50 extra points in Attack. The bulk is near the same for both and Azurmarill can hit harder in the rain thanks to Double Edge. The way you seem to be using Feraligatr, hitting things with Aqua Jet and to work as a solid attacker especially when opponents aren't at full speed, I think Azumarill does the job better.

    One thing I'm kind of confused about is why did you select that specific EV spread for Infernape? Usually, you want a mixed EV spread revolving on scoring certain 2HKOs or OHKOs, does yours?

    I'm also skeptical as to how well Infernape prevents Trick Room from going up. All it takes for a Psychic Trick Room user to ruin Infernapes day is to carry a Mental Herb and Psychic Infernape turn 1. To help Infernape prevent Trick Room from getting up with greater ease, try running Fake Out over Protect. The loss of Protect is pretty huge, but Fake Out buys your partner time to wail on the Trick Room user, possibly netting you a KO turn 2 with a double target. To extend what little durability Infernape has, try replacing your Life Orb with a Focus Sash. This leaves Garchomp itemless, but you still can utilize a Haban Berry, Yache Berry, or Life Orb in Focus Sash's absence.

    Though it doesn't help much with Trick Room, you could also try running Encore over Taunt to punish opponents who think they're safe from Infernape and his Fake Out with a turn 1 protect.

    For a final, much more radical suggestion, you could consider running a Musharna over Cresselia. Cresselia is the better choice than Musharna 9 times out of 10 but the way your team revolves around spamming spread moves its immunity to your spread attacks through Telepathy and Helping hand to boot make it seem like a pleasant fit. The downsides are definitely noticeable with the huge decrease in bulk and the lack of Icy Wind, but it's something to try. At the very least, try using Helping Hand on Cresselia to amplify the power of Donphan and Garchomp's Earthquakes.

    Hope my advice helped!
  5. Phozon

    Phozon

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    Alright to adress what you said:

    First off Infernape. He does just fine in shutting down TR. I use to use FO but it just never did anything so I gave it Taunt. Also, Taunt works really well for Amoguss' that spam Rage Powder in hopes of letting their TR setter get TR up. They normally get shut down and they just Giga Drain things which my team can handle. Infernape's spread does allow his to score 2HKO's with the help of some of his partners. Since he's defences are so brittle and he works best if he's mixed I figured a higher Sp.Atk would be needed because, I don't know if you know this, but double hitting moves in doubles have their power lever dropped by 25%. So a Heat Wave is now base 75 power, not 100, so he needs the extra Sp.Atk investment for a stronger Heat Wave.

    I never really gave any thought about Azumaril, I'll definatly give it a whirl. Thanks!

    As for Musharna, I accually tried that once and it just wan't as bulkie as Cress even with that ability it as to doge all allies attacks ( cant remember what its called XD ) it was just dying so much more and I felt like it didn't offer the same support that the team needed ( mostly a lack of Icy Wind )
  6. TheMantyke

    TheMantyke Larvitard
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    Well of course, I'm just curious what OHKOs or 2HKOs you're after with either attack with your EV spread. If you're not certain what exactly the EV spread accomplishes, I might run a few damage calculations to see how much investment you need to net an OHKO or 2HKO on a notable target (for example, how much Attack you need to OHKO a non-chople berry Max HP Tyranitar or a 4 HP Terrakion) then dump the rest into Special Attack (or vice versa if you're looking for a particular Heat Wave KO).
  7. Phozon

    Phozon

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    I know with this investment that CC OHKO Max HP/ Max Def Tyraniter ( but why would you run that? ) so I'm not worried about it. I worry about Terrakion just because it has the chance to out pace me and I need some kind of move to hit Chancey. I've been seeing quite a few of those lately so that always helps.
  8. TheMantyke

    TheMantyke Larvitard
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    I'm still not sure if I'm getting across. The point I'm trying to make is that if you're not certain your EVs score certain OHKOs or 2HKOs, you should drop them. After running a few damage calcs, you OHKO all Tyranitar without Chople Berry, 2HKO Chansey, and OHKO Terrakion, your primary targets for Close Combat. You're 72 Attack EVs aren't helping push any of these over the edge from 3HKOs to 2HKOs meaning it has little merit to it. I would suggest changing up your EV spread and experimenting with a Naive 6 HP / 252 SpAtk / 252 Speed spread for stronger Heat Waves.
  9. Fantom0

    Fantom0

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    Hey, you have some interesting members here! (I'm not sayind interesting team because of ZapChomp and Cress)

    First, some of your EV spreads are a little weird. I'm not too sure what Zapdos is trying to achieve there, Abomasnow's Blizzard is a 2HKO with or without the EVs. I'm useless at Zapdos spreads, so I can't offer anything. I'm not going to repeat TheMantyke's point about Infernape, but Donphan is another one that caught my eye, since without attack investment, even 4x weak pokemon are going to be able to take one or two hits of it, and in the case of Latios or Salamence, this could be disastrous. For Cresselia, I prefer a spread of 252 HP/60 Def/20 SpA/176+ SpD and Psyshock > Psychic. This allow you to 2HKO Terrakion and Virizion with Psyshock, survive a Dark Gem 252+ Tyranitar Crunch and a turn of sandstorm, or a 252+ Hitmontop's Fake Out and a 252+ +1 Volcarona's Bug Buzz. That's a lot of stuff to survive. Also, I'd replace Leftovers with Chesto Berry and replace Protect with Rest. Rest gives Cress a much greater lifespan.
    I think Zapdos would prefer Tailwind over Thunder Wave, or all you have is a slightly bulkier, significantly slower Thundurus. Tailwind would crucially help your team, particularly Garchomp and Feraligatr, who have a fair few things they'd like to outspeed. Also, try Thunderbolt, since it does a lot more damage to a single target than Discharge, and it isn't turned off every other turn whenever you don't have a ground type next to it.
    Garchomp's Crunch really won't do much to Cress, otherwise we could all have a field day. Rock Slide works so much better in dispatching Flying mons, or Substitute if Rock Slide isn't needed.
    You mentioned a Cress weakness, but there is another gaping weakness in Ice types in general, particularly Abomasnow, since three of your pokemon are weak to Ice and Abomasnow hits four of your pokemon super-effectively. To remedy this, you should put a Scizor on your team, since it solves both the Ice-type and Cress problem.
    Scizor @ Flying Gem
    Adamant: 76 HP/252 Atk/180 Spe
    -Bug Bite
    -Bullet Punch
    -Acrobatics
    -Protect
    Just a pointer, the speed allows you to beat 4 Spe Rotom-W.
    I'm not sure what you're take out for it, but it also helps you massively against TR, so now you can afford to run Fake Out on your Infernape.

    Sorry it's a lot of stuff, but I hope some of it helped!
  10. Phozon

    Phozon

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    Alright, let me explain the Donphan set:

    It's ment to be a tanking set. It really helps support the team and when it works with Cresselia, those two can really put a hic-up in the other guys plans. It also works well with my Feraligatr when people want to "lead" with fast things. Just being able to 2HKO or 3HKO things that take 2,3 even 4 hits to KO my Donpahn really pays off.

    As for the Scizor, what would I have to take off? The problem with this team ( besides the staggering Ice weakness 8| ) is that when you take one of the pokes off the team, the synergy falls apart. When I make teams, I always make them with really high synergy to the point where you really can't take off pokes w/o opening up another weakness. The ice one is semi manageable, but putting on Scizor, I can see sun teams becomeing a problem or even rain, and with out a doubt Trick Room.

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