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The Final Frontier - RU Style Round 3 Assessing the team

Discussion in 'BW RU' started by Celever, Jul 28, 2013.

  1. Celever

    Celever

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    (Idea stolen from DTC's NU version, I'm bored so I'm writing the OP myself)

    So you're team-building considering defensive and offensive synergy, the style of team you need and the like. You have 5 of your pokemon done and you realize that you need to check some pokemon, you need this, you need that and all the rest of it. This project is here to help people discover how to choose a final pokemon. It will work where each week a team of 5 pokemon is submitted, everyone here will have to first discuss the team for a few days and then start electing team members for a few days.

    Leaderboard (open)
    Silvershadow 1
    Mylo Xyloto 1


    Team #3, courtesy of Cherub!

    [​IMG]
    1. (Omastar) (F) @ Lum Berry
    2. Trait: Shell Armor
    3. EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd / 4 Def
    4. Timid Nature
    5. - Surf
    6. - Shell Smash
    7. - Ice Beam
    8. - Hidden Power [Grass]
    [​IMG]
    1. (Emboar) @ Choice Scarf
    2. Trait: Blaze
    3. Jolly Nature
    4. IVs: 30 Atk / 30 SAtk / 30 Spd
    5. - Flare Blitz
    6. - Superpower
    7. - Wild Charge
    8. - Sleep Talk
    [​IMG]
    1. (Escavalier) (M) @ Choice Band
    2. Trait: Swarm
    3. EVs: 252 Atk / 248 HP / 8 SDef
    4. Brave Nature
    5. - Iron Head
    6. - Megahorn
    7. - Pursuit
    8. - Sleep Talk
    [​IMG]
    1. (Slowking) @ Leftovers
    2. Trait: Regenerator
    3. EVs: 252 SAtk / 248 HP / 8 SDef
    4. Quiet Nature
    5. IVs: 0 Spd
    6. - Fire Blast
    7. - Surf
    8. - Psyshock
    9. - Trick Room
    [​IMG]
    1. (Druddigon) @ Leftovers
    2. Trait: Rough Skin
    3. EVs: 80 Spd / 252 Atk / 176 HP
    4. Adamant Nature
    5. - Stealth Rock
    6. - Outrage
    7. - Earthquake
    8. - Sucker Punch
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2013
  2. srk1214

    srk1214 That ain't Hoopa!
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    Fix your Archeops and Moltres weakness (and general issue with many strong, fast threats). Regirock should help a lot.
  3. Worldtour

    Worldtour aka Swamp-Rocket
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    I hate to be rude but honestly there isn't one Pokemon that can fix all the issues presented with this team. I know you said that we shouldn't point out bad things but there are a lot of bad things that really need to be addressed imo

    You have huge problems with several big threats which comes from a general lack in synergy. Choice Band variants of Druddigon, Entei, Aggron, and Escavalier OHKO or 2HKO your entire team and you have no way of hitting most of them hard, and for Entei, outspeeding AND hitting it hard. Choice Specs Slowking gets a free switch into Hitmonchan in particular and 2HKOs your entire team with Surf alone. Sceptile OHKOs everything you have and is only slower than Ninjask, which is severly lacking in power due to the EVs - attempting to switch into Leaf Storm or Giga Drain means switching into a not very bulky Pokemon that is 4x weak to Stealth Rock, and it can even set up a Substitute on the switch. Durant sets up on everything you have and takes almost no damage from the only Pokemon you have that can outspeed it. Moltres OHKOs everything on your team with Fire Blast alone except maybe Bouffalant I'm pretty sure. Scarf Emboar cleans up this team easily. Without Eelektross many Pokemon, including Qwilfish and Alomomola, walls this team almost completely at the moment. Anything that is faster than Scyther, such as Aerodactyl, Galvantula, Sigilyph (because of the Adamant nature) or Swellow, has a pretty easy time putting you under a ton of pressure and can clean your team up rather soon. Any Fighting-type pretty much can plow through this team if they have Stone Edge, especially Hitmonlee after the Unburden boost, who outspeeds Scyther. There are other Pokemon that can give you a rough time but I think you get the point :/

    You also are missing out on very important things such as a Choice Scarf user (revenge killer in general), Stealth Rock setter, and Sleep Absorber, which are all pretty much required in RU, and the only real way you can support this team at the moment is with Rapid Spin from Hitmonchan. Also, everything on this team is C-Rank in the viability thread except Bouffalant. About half of these sets are not very good on their respective members too, with none of them being on-site. There is not a Pokemon in RU that can fix all the present issues, or even most of them. I really think this team is one that cannot succeed in RU unless you change a lot of stuff here, sorry.
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2013
  4. Celever

    Celever

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    Ok I have restarted this with one of Molk's teams so get posting ;D
  5. The Quasar

    The Quasar
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    Is this the the right team? Then, my little cent for it. Team seems well-bilanced, without important weakness. I assure you, I'd like to play with a good point of view with it, when it will be completed.

    What is needed to complete it? Well, perhaps it could be useful two things poles apart. Another speed sweeper or a good wall (the latter with good sinergy with Roar and Sleep Powder).
  6. Ulriken

    Ulriken

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    Ok, I'll take a shot at this.

    First off, this team is in pretty good shape. FWG core, balance of offense and defense (leaning towards bulky offense) and hitting from both attacking types.

    The three choiced Pokemon sticks out to me, and especially if Druddigon gets locked into Sucker Punch, this is a team that will need to do some switching. For this reason Rapid Spin support would help.
    The team is also pretty slow. Like Trick Room levels of slow. This is an option to grant more sweeping opportunities to Druddigon or Steelix or Slowking, though of course Trick Room is a bit gimmicky, at least here the whole team isn't designed around it. Paralysis support is another option to cripple faster opposing threats.
    Spinblocking is an option but not really required, Steelix can probably come back and re-set the rocks if needed.

    The general lack of speed is probably the main thing I'd address. If Steelix goes down, the other 4 get absolutely run by Swellow, as it still outspeeds Emboar, and other (even kinda) fast Pokemon will make it difficult for this team to clean up late game, including opposing scarfers that can finish off Emboar after he's weakened by recoil.
  7. Silvershadow234

    Silvershadow234 :]]]]]
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    This seems like a really cool bulky offense team. You can clearly see the framework behind this team as well-steelix is the lead, tangrowth is the utility mon(tanks hits from shit like kabutops), slowking and druddigon are the wallbreakers, weakening alomomola and the like for an emboar clean. What this team could really do with is a secondary win condition against offense, as druddigon and slowking are too slow to clean entire teams and tangrowth / steelix lack the coverage / power and they are still slow. This leaves emboar as the only real win condition. Just glancing through this team, moltres seems like a big issue. It deals 60%+ to everything on this team with just it's stab's alone-slowking and druddigon are the only pokes able to survive a single hit. Furthermore, it comes in tangrowth(if sleep clause is activated ofc) and steelix with ease. Another threat is entry hazards-seeing as this team has no rapid spinner and the likes of roselia set-up spikes / toxic spikes very easily on tangrowth, and although qwil has a harder time setting up hazards due to the fact it doesn't hard wall anything apart from the cleaner, it can get up two layers against tangrowth + steelix + emboar quite easily making the defensive core much easier to break through. As an extension of entry hazards, smeargle is a huge threat. It outspeeds everything bar emboar, so it's guaranteed an easy sleep + two entry hazards.

    imo the best choice for the last mon is sd lum kabutops. This set gives molk another win condition, as well as another solid moltres check. It also deals with smeargle very well, thanks to rapid spin and lum berry. The 4x fire resist also comes in handy vs. entei, which 2HKO's everything with cb flare blitz atm. Generally though, kabutops is a sweeper that fully takes advantage of the holes left by slowking and druddigon against the likes of amoonguss, steelix and aggron and can also clear a pathway for emboar by further weakening things like poliwrath.
  8. Celever

    Celever

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    You may now Nominate Pokemon for this team.
  9. Silvershadow234

    Silvershadow234 :]]]]]
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    Kabutops @ Lum Berry
    Trait: Weak Armor
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Aqua Jet
    - Stone Edge
    - Rapid Spin
    - Swords Dance

    Last edited: Aug 23, 2013
  10. Celever

    Celever

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    You need to post the whole set and why it should be chosen... e_e (You can C+P from your other post since you explained a little there don't worry)
  11. Celever

    Celever

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    This round will be open for roughly 24 more hours! :O
  12. Celever

    Celever

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    Triple Posting is so manly! >:[

    Anyway Molk's final member was actually SD Kabutops so SilverShadow wins. He gets 1 point! xD

    SilverShadow submitted this weeks team which is currently being put in the OP, so get discussing and have more than one nominee this time!
  13. Kingler12345

    Kingler12345 COOKIE COOKIE COOKIE STARTS WITH C
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    Editing my post fully in some time, but I believe poliwrath would be a great choice for the last slot.
  14. Celever

    Celever

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    This round is talking about team weaknesses, not nominating any specific pokemon yet.

    team2 (open)

    Anyway team #2, submitted by Silvershadow!

    [​IMG]
    Golurk @ Leftovers
    Trait: Iron Fist
    EVs: 252 HP / 152 Def / 104 Spd
    Impish Nature
    - Stealth Rock
    - Earthquake
    - Shadow Punch
    - Fire Punch

    [​IMG]
    Roselia @ Eviolite
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 248 HP / 236 SDef / 24 Spd
    Calm Nature
    - Giga Drain
    - Sludge Bomb
    - Toxic Spikes
    - Spikes

    [​IMG]
    Moltres @ Life Orb
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Flamethrower
    - Hurricane
    - Substitute
    - Roost

    [​IMG]
    Escavalier @ Choice Band
    Trait: Overcoat
    EVs: 120 HP / 252 Atk / 136 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Megahorn
    - Iron Head
    - Pursuit
    - Sleep Talk

    [​IMG]
    Kabutops @ Lum Berry
    Trait: Weak Armor
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    - Swords Dance
    - Rapid Spin
    - Aqua Jet
    - Stone Edge[
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2013
  15. Kingler12345

    Kingler12345 COOKIE COOKIE COOKIE STARTS WITH C
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    Ok. Well, I wasn't gonna post the set anyway, but I'll discuss the weaknesses to my fullest potential(or whatever)
    Also, please post a new team in a new post. When you see the first few posts after the OP it makes no sense. So you could do it like how the posting of pokemon in 'the next best thing' is done.
    Yeah, it's a sort of middle ground between stall and offense, a bit like bulky offense, with hard hitting attackers like moltres and kabutops, which has the additional advantage of rapid spinning, and then golurk and roselia, which form a decent defensive core together. Escavalier is a further bulky attacker able to abuse switches, tspikes and spikes damage. Overall a well built team imo, but i've not been into RU in a while, so i wouldn't know.
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2013
  16. Celever

    Celever

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    24 hours until nominations
  17. col49

    col49 unpolished
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    Ok, I'm definitely not very good at this sorta thing, but I'll give it a shot 'cuz limited responses make me sad =(

    Alright, so generally speaking, the team covers a pretty solid amount of threats and whatnot on its own, tried and true build and all that. Assuming everything is healthy and so forth, this team should be able to sustain itself fairly well on its own merit, utilizing the hazards support to push through the opponent's defensive core via Moltres, using Kabutops as a back-up win condition. However, assuming that sorta thing isn't really healthy from my experiences, so I'm not gonna :> As it stands, it looks as though a well-built stall team could outlast the majority of SS234's team, as nothing on his team carries any forme of recovery, and while Moltres is certainly a big threat to such teams, putting so much strain on it without having some sort of follow-up to clean house once SpDef 'mons have been cleared out of the way / worn down means that something like a Hurricane miss can just cost the game :[ While something like this may not be as much of an issue for heavy offense teams, more balanced ones such as this can really feel the impact of getting whittled down, since it relies much more on its defensive backbone to check offensive 'mons (and gives these 'mons more set-up opps than heavy offense by nature). Continuing on with the idea of the team lacking sustainability, there are a couple offensive 'mons that can really exploit the fact that the team gets worn down. SubSplit Rotom is one of the most notable ones I could pick up on; it is capable of scaring out and setting up a Sub pretty easily vs.Golurk, 'Tops, and Moltres, and from there Escavalier is almost assured to be 2HKOed (49.19 - 58.84%). While Roselia handles its attack significantly better (25.74 - 31.02% from Shadow Ball), its lack of recovery means that if it lets itself take too much chip damage it can very easily get KOed, which is far from unrealistic considering how often Rotom gets paired with Spikes. While Rose can opt to reserve itself solely for Rotom, in doing so the opponent is essentially restricting your use of (T)Spikes, which is a pretty crucial component of the team. In a somewhat similar vein, Kabutops and Omastar can both prove problematic, since either can become an issue if they grab a boost. Laslty, and this is somewhat more minor, but the lack of immediate Rhydon switch-in is pretty evident, which can be seen from the use of a more defenisvely-inclined Golurk, and its ability to push good damage on almost everything is kinda worrisome imo.

    And I guess I save noms for later then? Idk, not super familiar with all this x_x Oh, and sorry for the super messy-looking post, I did say I wasn't very good at this sorta thing '~'
    Celever likes this.
  18. Celever

    Celever

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    Ok, this is late because smogon has a vengeance against my account (Joim if you see this PLEASE LOOK INTO IT) but you can now nominate Pokemon!
    Kingler12345 likes this.
  19. Kingler12345

    Kingler12345 COOKIE COOKIE COOKIE STARTS WITH C
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    Reserving poliwrath n_n
  20. Celever

    Celever

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    This round will stay open roughly 72 more hours.

    To answer a question I was asked on irc you do not have to discuss the team in order to nominate a Pokemon, just nice if you do! :3
  21. Mylo Xyloto

    Mylo Xyloto

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    Well the only major threat i see on paper is special fire types. Since they prey on kabutops' pitiful special defence with powerful hurricanes, fire blasts and eruptions. Many of them even carry coverage moves like focus blast or hp grass which easily will ohko kabutops. Therefore i suggest using cb druddigon in the sixth slot. Druddigon can tank fire stabs from the likes of magmortar, typlosion and to an extent moltres. Druddigon also forms a solid offensive and defensive core with escavalier. Breaking down special wall, for moltres to plough through opposing teams, and overwhelming physical walls (moltres helps here too). Escavalier covers druddigon ice and dragon weakness while druddigon fixes escavalier's terrible fire weakness. Druddigon also patches up the slowking weakness. The offensive trickroom set is a particular threat since with psyshock, surf and fire blast it hits all of ss' team for huge amounts of damage. Thats p much it. Cool team btw :>

    Set:

    [​IMG] @ Choice Band
    Trait: Mold Breaker / Rough Skin
    EVs: 252 Atk / 236 Hp / 20 Spe
    Adamant Nature
    - Outrage
    - Earthquake / Super Power
    - Fire Punch / Sucker Punch
    - Dragon Claw

    A more defensive spread could also be used if preferred.
  22. Celever

    Celever

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    Yes this was only 3 days ignore the other 12.

    I suppose Mylo Xyloto wins by default...

    Silvershadow will be posting the Tauros that was originally there and his thoughts on Druddigon.

    Also this will be the last round of this project given what an utter failure it was!
  23. Silvershadow234

    Silvershadow234 :]]]]]
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    Tauros (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Sheer Force
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 SAtk
    Naive Nature
    - Rock Climb
    - Zen Headbutt
    - Fire Blast
    - Earthquake
  24. The Quasar

    The Quasar
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    You should not do it. It's a good idea and it's so useful to which is approaching RU. You should not do it.
  25. The Quasar

    The Quasar
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    Even if it's increasing the overall weaknesses about grass and elettric moves, low speed of many 'mons suggests me it could be a good idea to "turn" this team loke a trick room. So:

    [​IMG]
    Slowking (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Regenerator
    0 IV Spe
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 SATK / 4 SDef
    Quiet Nature
    - Surf
    - Psyshock / Nasty Plot
    - Fire Blast
    - Trick Room

    Fire Blast is just chosen to coverage types-fire.

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