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Discussion in 'Ruins of Alph' started by Anti, Nov 10, 2007.
Seismic Toss hits Regice.
You mean if I'm facing it? It does. Good point. As well as Blissey and Snorlax harder.
Flygon weak? :P
As an Azumarill user I'd recommend Encore over Rest.
Encoring things like Suicune Rest when nothing else on their team can take a Focus Punch is just sexy. Works wonder when you switch in Skarmory, set a Sub, they try to PHaze you just to get Encored and now just can't PHaze you or stop your Punchings.
Azumarill can make great use of the recovery, especially with a Heal Beller. I'll try Encore, though. you try Rest!
Dragonite gets 2HKO'd by Rock Slide.
Scizor gets OHKO'd by Fire Blast.
Zard gets OHKO'd by Rock Slide.
Steelix gets 2HKO'd by either Fire Blast or Earthquake.
Azumarill gets 2HKO'd by Earthquake.
Regice gets 2HKO'd by Rock Slide/Earthquake.
There's no safe switch in on it :/
Even then, hard CB'rs hurt you in the long run, having Steelix as your main physical wall, you need some way to keep it healthy, otherwise one single missprediction and it'll get hurt by a CB Earthquake or a Fire Blast, etc, and you'll have trouble switching it in again. Your team is claiming for Wish support.
This team seems like: win or lose in around 30-40 turns, but yeah, it is quite good.
Flygon causes a problem, but all that's needed is a Sac to take care of that, which is what part of this team is based on. You'd also have to consider Belly Drum and Reversal in play.
With so many potential but rather novel offensive Pokemon you will find yourself plenty of holes, such as DDmence which 3HKOs Steelix (2HKO if it's using a Fire movE) despite you saying it's a counter, however this is probably way too much fun to use anyway.
Skarmory's Spikes do rape the shit out of you though. Yes, you can try to set up Charizard, but if they have Starmie, Vaporeon or Aerodactyl that is just completely out of the window, while some other Pokemon also give it fits (Miltank, more than 2 Pokemon that force a Double-Edge, etc).
Yeah, then does 51 - 60% w/ HP Flying. From there I can go to Steelix or Azumarill. It can Sub / Punch it easily.
Yes. If it doesn't have Fire Blast Scizor can Agility / Endure then OHKO Flyon w/ Reversal.
Yeah. idk about EQ but Fire Blast iirc does so I won't bother checking.
no it doesn't. Max attack adamant flygon does 45 - 52% w/ EQ, 67 - 78% if it's CB'd. Either it can sub up against.
No it doesn't. My Regice takes 37 - 44% from max Attack Adamant Flygon using Rock Slide / Earthquake and 56 - 66% if it's Choice Banded. From there it's easy, if it's EQing I can go to Drag (who loves Focus Punching on the switch) or if it's Rock Sliding I can go to Steelix who can hit it with an Iron Tail. If it's not CB'd I can OHKO it w/ Regice's Ice Beam.
CB Earthquakes generally do like (e.g, tauros / Aerodactyl) do about 55%. IF it's CB'd. Then, Drag comes in. Same goes for Fire Blast. 0 Sp. Attack Mence doesn't OHKO w/ Fire Blast.
Yeah, both Charizard and Scizor can OHKO Flygon when they've got their boost.
If DD Mence has Fire Blast, it doesn't have Rock Slide and Regice can take it down pretty easily.
It really, really is :) You should try it! It's such a fun team to use.
iirc Vaporeon is OHKO'd by Double Edge, but 'Zard can die to the recoil, depending on how much HP the guy runs on Vaporeon. I've learnt to always Fire Blast the first time I send Charizard out to scout for what they've got - I've found out the hard way how gay it is when my opponent switches in an Aero / Starmie after I BD. I can however Belly Drum again, with uneven HP from lack of Substitute.
Actually, your team does in fact have a Flygon weakness, as well as high vulnerability to Spikes that was mentioned much earlier (specifically from Skarmory).
Although it is hard for Flygon to switch in, when it does it will wreck havoc to your pokemon, possibly setting up a more dangerous sweeper in the dark such as Tyranitar. In terms of the standard Flygon set (EQ/RS/FB/Sub), if it finds opportunity to switch in, it will almost always sub as you switch in an attempt to counter. Flygon deals a massive blow to whatever you switched in, and if its Substitute breaks, it switches out. Rinse and repeat with appropriate predictions and slowly your team will fall. Not to mention that it is always paired with the sandstream devil Tyranitar, which further weakens this team's ability to recover from Flygon's assaults.
About Skarmory: It switches in easily on four of your pokemon. Yes, that does include Dragonite, whom if caught with an attack other than Focus Punch will be rendered useless. From that point, Skarmory will set up spikes as you switch to your counter (most likely Regice, and sometimes Charizard). It switches out to something that can take your pokemon and comes in easily later on one of your four pokemon. In no time, your team will have to work around 3 layers of spikes that damage the best defenses of your team. This is a huge problem, as the opponent can pressure your defenses until they are finally destroyed.
Overall, I think the success of the team depends highly on the playing style of the user. The most effective by far is a playing style that yields any care for defenses and play in hyper-offense with powerful predictions, always paying attention to the pokes that give your team trouble. I can tell there is some depth to the team, too, and that overall it is pretty unique. Kudos to that.
i suggested a bulky water for countering tar
having charizard and regice wont stop skarm from getting 3 layers of spikes
I agree with Karrot - it depends on the playing style of your opponent how effective your way of dealing with Flygon, Salamence etc is. A good opponent will realize you don't have a reliable counter to these and play them conservatively, chipping away at your team without going toe to toe with something that does a lot of damage to them. Skarmory can do the same, except it is much easier to switch in. As I wanted to get across, Charizard can set up on it, but if its sweep fails and it bits the dust, Skarmory will only dominate more, because the best you can do against it is bringing in Regice. And if they have a Regice counter you will be playing in cycles in your disadvantage because of the Spike layers, unless you can pull off a sweep with something else. But that requires a weakness on their side.
In other news, Calm Mind/Fire Punch/Psychic/anything Alakazam gives you a bunch of trouble, forcing you into a similar situation as with these DDers - sacrifices and risks for your side, while they can come back a lot. If Alakazam has Recover that will be easier for him, or he could use Ice Punch on Dragonite, or the rare Thunderpunch against Azumarill.
something like flygon should be revenge killed. not too much of an issue. i really like how the team is structured btw. my basic structure is:
the last physical sweeper is sort of a wild card. i personally prefer what i call a late game sweeper there. the type that takes a lot of set ups. curselax, e-vire, tauntrados, you know the drill.
I would get a rapid spinner. Because if someone sets up SR Charizard will looser over half of its HP when it comes in. That means no belly drum.
SR doesn't exist in ADV.
Anyway, I think that it's a good team.
After seeing your team in action on nb today, I realized that Elemence could pose a threat to your team. Modest Mence can come in on say CB EQ and 3HKOs Regice with Fire Blast, easily wearing it down to get it to rest, and then you will be very hard pressed to defend against its assaults. Scizor OHKO'd by Fire Blast. Steelix is OHKO'd by Fire Blast/Hydro Pump, Charizard OHKO'd by Hydro Pump, Azumarill 3HKO'd by Dragon Claw and can only 3HKO Mence at best. Dragonite is 2HKO'd by Dragon Claw and can only 2HKO Salamence.
The only plausible way to take it down, assuming Regice is asleep/dead, would be to HP Ghost it with Azumarill and then HP Fly it with Dragonite, but as said earlier, a smart player would play his most important pieces carefully and could save it and come back later. With spike support, even Regice would have trouble taking it down.