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The forgotten Genie (Peaked #1!)

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by Kidogo, Sep 12, 2012.

  1. Kidogo

    Kidogo

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2012
    Messages:
    461
    Hey everyone,

    This is Kidogo with my first OU RMT. I’ve primarily been a DW player, and had never played OU much. However, when DW breathed its last upon the releases of PS and many previously illegal pokes in OU, I decided to try out my hand in OU. Since I had always played sandstorm offense in DW, I decided to go in the opposite direction here with a rain stall team. However, I quickly decided that rain stall was too boring for me, and that I wasn’t particularly good at it either. So I kept my favorite parts and then began experimenting with some new pokes and sets, and ended up with a sort of semi-stall rain team that has worked very well for me. I’ve gotten to #1 several times in OU with it on PS (not that that means much, the ladder is very messed up) and have a 108/4 win/loss ratio with it under my alt Tasmania (I can't get a picture atm, but will try to post one). This has been by far my most successful OU team, and has been fun to play with as well. Most of all, it showcases some unusual but very effective sets that are very anti-metagame IMO. Without further ado, I present the team:

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]


    PROCESS
    Show Hide
    Because I wanted this to be a rain stallish team, politoed was a must for the rain. Tentacruel supplied much of the stallish part as well as being an overall beast in rain.


    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    I needed a steel type and a stealth rocker, as well as something that could beat breloom, and also a set-up sweeper. Ferrothorn and subCM latias were added.

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    This was sort of an OK core, although I didn’t like it much. I needed a revenge killer and I needed an electric immune, so I chose scarf thundurus-t.

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    After testing this out a bit, I decided that stall was just not for me. I replaced ferrothorn with jirachi (never liked that green durian thing) and canned latias (just not strong enough without boosts, and way too defensive for me). At this point I decided I needed a sweeper to base this team around, or it was going to turn out horribly. I also lacked a true offensive rain abuser. I repeatedly tried out Tornadus-T, but just found it to weak or, when equipped with LO, too fragile to do anything but fire off attacks and then switch—I wanted something that could stay in for a while and sweep unhindered by residual damage. After a while, I finally had an idea—what about using Tornadus-I? It still has enough speed to sweep, with a higher SpA stat. Lack of regenerator could be annoying, but if I could find a way to take advantage of prankster… I tried tornadus-I out and was immediately hooked.


    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Tornadus’s lower speed meant that I needed a true revenge-killer, however. After testing a couple of options, I settled on scarf latios, a very underrated and underused set, as it was easy to bluff as specs, could revenge-kill any +1 dragon, and because it helped against my considerable rotom-w weakness, while providing further resistances to electric, water, and fighting and checking breloom.

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]


    For the last slot, I tried to figure out what the problems of the team were. First of all, I had no presence physically, as even my jirachi was specially based. Second, I was still incredibly rotom-w weak. Third, I would lose vs. anyone who spammed strong electric attacks. And finally, subCM rachi destroyed me every game, with my lifespan prolonged only by getting a perish song off on it with toed, who would quickly fall. Incredibly, there was a Pokémon that managed to satisfy all of the criteria perfectly: Gastrodon

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]






    IN-DEPTH


    [​IMG]
    Politoed (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Drizzle
    EVs: 252 HP / 240 Def / 16 Spd
    Bold Nature
    - Scald
    - Perish Song
    - Protect
    - Toxic

    A pretty standard set. Scald is a nice STAB and allows me to actually damage ferrothorn through burn, which is a top priority, as a burned ferrothorn is infinitely easier to play against. Toxic + perish song means I’m not set-up fodder, and perish song is also a good move in case there’s a CM reuniclus and latios isn’t ready to give up his scarf yet, or something of the sort. Perish song also lets me form a combo of stalling a turn with protect, going to rachi, u-turning to tornadus while absorbing the hit with rachi, and then subbing when they are forced to switch. Protect lets me scout, get lefties recovery, etc. Max HP is a lefties number, max def bold with some speed EVs for speed creep. Politoed is actually surprisingly physically bulky, and is my go-to mon for pokes like dragonite, as he can live a +1 outrage to get a toxic in.




    [​IMG]
    Tentacruel (F) @ Black Sludge
    Trait: Rain Dish
    EVs: 204 HP / 252 Def / 36 SDef / 16 Spd
    Bold Nature
    - Toxic Spikes
    - Rapid Spin
    - Scald
    - Protect

    Another fairly typical Pokémon on rain, tentacruel is just a really solid poke. 1/8 health per turn + protect means tenta basically takes 25% less from every attack. Rapid spin is really appreciated since this team switches around a lot. Tenta is again defensively EVed, as it is my best bet against physical sweepers such as scizor, lucario, and the like. EVs bring HP to a lefties number, max def, bring speed up to beat adamant loom and rest in SpD. One thing that has been suggested to me a number of times is getting rid of tspikes for either sub or toxic, especially as I already have a large number of toxic users on the team. However, there are two Pokémon that become infinitely easier for this team to handle with toxic spikes down to the point that they are nigh on unbeatable otherwise: the pink blobs, blissey and chansey. Because this team is almost entirely specially based, they can wall me forever otherwise. With toxic spikes, the majority of the team is able to hav a chance against them, and Tornadus can beat them 1-on-1, even aromatherapy versions. Because of this, I am hesitant to replace tspikes, although I am open to suggestions if anyone can present a good argument. Tentacruel is my go-to guy for ferro, as with his passive healing he can stall around enough to get a burn, at which point tornadus can take over.




    [​IMG]
    Jirachi @ Leftovers
    Trait: Serene Grace
    EVs: 252 HP / 144 Def / 96 SAtk / 16 Spd
    Modest Nature
    - Stealth Rock
    - Wish
    - Thunder
    - U-turn

    This set is a variation on the somewhat-known “rain rachi”, with minor tweaks. Rachi is my rocker, as well as my wisher—wish support just makes tornadus shine even more, as well as keeping the rest of the team healthy. Thunder is a surprisingly powerful attack with my SpA investment, and carries that nice 60% chance for paralysis. For example, it 2HKOs most vaporeon without rocks, which is helpful given that I can’t status it to death like other bulky waters. U-turn is a personal addition over the more common iron head, but I didn’t feel like splitting EVs and since rachi is my only steel, I don’t really want it being trapped by zone. U-turn, as noted before, also makes for some very interesting combos with perish song and for letting me get frailer members in safely. EVs maximize HP for wishes, SpA gives thunder some power and brings it to an extra point, speed beets adamant loom, and rest goes in Def for sponging outrages. The one thing I don’t love about rachi’s set is that I’d love to get protect or a flinching move somewhere on its moveset, as many times I need him to receive the wish but am forced to switch out. As my only steel, jirachi is very helpful against dragons, tornadus (-T of course, who would use I?), and the like, but I’m also okay sacrificing him if need be, as this team is more offensive than defensive and doesn’t mind sacrifices for the good of the team.



    [​IMG][​IMG]
    Tornadus (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Prankster
    EVs: 20 HP, / 236 SpA / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    -Substitute
    -Hurricane
    -Focus Blast
    -Taunt

    While I didn’t really build the team around this guy, it’s safe to say that he is the star of the show. Although he has fallen into disgrace since the arrival of his faster therian form, Tornadus-I has a definite niche and is much better IMO for the role I need him for. First of all, priority substitute on a Pokémon as offensively threatening as tornadus is just so good I don’t even know how to describe it. Think of it as Protect that can be used as many times as you want, doesn’t free the opponent from outrage lock-in, activates LO recoil for the opponent, lets you set up on non-attacking moves, and gives you a huge bonus if they switch, instead of having wasted a turn. For the cost of 18% of your HP. Yeah, it’s that good. This set has saved me in SOOOO many games, and cleanly 6-0ed in almost as many. Hurricane + focus blast give coverage resisted only by Thundurus-T and zapdos (and emolga I guess) making another coverage move unnecessary. The greatest thing about the set is that the number of things used in OU that are not 2HKOed by the listed moves is countable on one hand: I’m thinking of SpD thundurs, zapdos, jirachi, and the blobs. With stealth rocks in play? Make that very SpD zapdos, rachi, and the blobs. Zapdos and rachi are covered by gastrodon, leaving the blobs—which is where taunt comes in. With taunt and toxic spikes, Tornadus can singlehandedly beat or severely cripple the blobs, especially if the opponent doesn’t know my move-set and thus wastes a turn with status or something. Tornadus can then proceed to toxic-stall with substitute, or just attack. Only absolute SpD blissey and very SpD chansey have a chance of beating it, in which case they will be weakened enough to finish off. Of course, taunt has other uses beyond the blobs. Priority taunt isn’t quite in the same league as sub, but it’s up there. Say there’s a +1 lum DDnite at 90%, and latios is ready to revenge-kill it but I’ll lose if it gets to +2. Do go for hurricane, hoping that it will outrage or that hurricane will crit or confuse? Taunt. Also, with taunt and sub, this is like the best sub-toxic gliscor counter in existence, as once sub is up it can’t touch you and it can’t even try to PP stall with sub and protect due to taunt, leaving you with a free sub and it unable to touch you. Also, tornadus is my best bet for beating ferrothorn, which my team is rather weak to. I set up a sub on their twave or leech seed (they never learn J) and then proceed to 2HKO with hurricane (or hurricane + focus blast if it’s SpD). And if it’s burned or paralyzed (most of the time), I’m guaranteed to come out of that with a sub intact. Sorry if I’m too enthusiastic, but this set has just blown me away with its performance.



    [​IMG]
    Latios (M) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Draco Meteor
    - Psychic
    - Surf
    - Trick

    This set serves as a perfect revenge-killer for the team, outspeeding just about everything in the game and packing a lot of power even without a boosting item. Furthermore, specs’s prevalence makes this set even more effective, as most people tend to assume the set. I can’t say how many times I’ve gotten a kill with draco meteor and the opponent as brought their scarf mence in, only to be OHKOed after rocks at -2. Draco meteor is necessary due to this set’s lower power, although it still is very powerful. Psychic lets me revenge fighting types, and is a great STAB attack that 2HKOes much of the game as well as easily OHKOing breloom. Surf gets very good overage with the other two moves and gets a pseudo-STAB boost from rain. Trick is for the blobs and ferrothorn, always nice to have another way around them. Latios is also a nice safe bet to use against rotom-w early on, if I’m worried about it tricking gastro a scarf or something. This set is absolutely not supposed to be a wallbreaker though—it’s a revenge killer first and foremost.



    [​IMG]
    Gastrodon (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Storm Drain
    EVs: 212 HP / 128 Atk / 168 SDef
    Sassy Nature
    - Recover
    - Scald
    - Earthquake
    - Toxic

    Last but probably not least, gastrodon. It’s funny, about half of games gastrodon wows me with his bulk and proves invaluable as he walls the opponent’s entire team and stalls them all to death…and then half the time he kinda ends up being fodder. This is not to say he doesn’t deserve his spot though—there is not another Pokémon that can fulfill his much-needed niche—it’s just that he’s very specialized. Gastro is a very bulky poke though, and quite powerful too with the Atk EVs. The HP brings him to a lefties number, while the Atk guarantees he 2HKOes subCM jirachi even with lefties damage factored in. Meanwhile, the SpD makes him very specially bulky, easily surviving specstios draco meteor and recovering off the damage. Moveset is fairly simple, fairly decent mixed offenses let him hit on both sides, EQ beats subCMrachi, scald is good for defensive ground types like donphan (who is on a ton of sun teams, meaning gastro can be sent out against donphan and threaten both him and tales with eq if it comes in to eat a scald. Toxic is good against set-up sweepers and you can never have too much of it, recover is obviously to recover damage.






    THREATS
    I’ve had a lot of success with this team, and it doesn’t have a lot of weaknesses that I can find, but if I had to choose one it would definitely be mamoswine—no one on the team resists both STABs and my revenge killers are weak to his priority. Fortunately, it can’t have power and ability to switch moves, as even LO ice shard can’t KO latios even with rocks, meaning I can limit its damage with smart switching. Ferrothorn can also be a nuisance if scald simply will not burn, which usually forces me to let tornadus get crippled in order to take it down. Overall though, I feel that the team is pretty solid, though I would welcome any suggestions anyone has.

    I hope you enjoyed reading the RMT as much as I enjoyed making and playing with the team, and if all you got from it was “hey, tornadus-I is pretty cool!” I will be fully satisfied.

    Please rate, give comments, luvdisc!
    Thanks for reading!





    For those who want to try it out:
    Show Hide
    Tornadus (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Prankster
    EVs: 20 HP / 236 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Substitute
    - Hurricane
    - Focus Blast
    - Taunt

    Politoed (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Drizzle
    EVs: 252 HP / 240 Def / 16 Spd
    Bold Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Scald
    - Perish Song
    - Protect
    - Toxic

    Tentacruel (F) @ Black Sludge
    Trait: Rain Dish
    EVs: 204 HP / 252 Def / 36 SDef / 16 Spd
    Bold Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Toxic Spikes
    - Rapid Spin
    - Scald
    - Protect

    Gastrodon (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Storm Drain
    EVs: 212 HP / 128 Atk / 168 SDef
    Sassy Nature
    - Recover
    - Scald
    - Earthquake
    - Toxic

    Latios (M) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Draco Meteor
    - Psychic
    - Surf
    - Trick

    Jirachi @ Leftovers
    Trait: Serene Grace
    EVs: 252 HP / 144 Def / 96 SAtk / 16 Spd
    Modest Nature
    - Stealth Rock
    - Wish
    - Thunder
    - U-turn
  2. Ninetale3

    Ninetale3

    Joined:
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    Hello creative rain team. This is getting a luvdisc.

    I like the fact that tornadus-I is used on this team over the therian form. Tornadus-I doesn't get the love it deserves. What is really bothering me is that it is weak to grass types. They can ruin 4 or 5 of the 6 team members like tinfoil. That means you would take a rather harsh lost if this comes up.

    I can't think of anything that wouldn't mind coming to the team outside pink blobs. The catch is that you would have to get rid of jirachi in favor of your choice of blob and replace tentacruel with forretress. This would give you about the same walling ability if not give you another physical wall to set up your choice of spikes.
  3. Kidogo

    Kidogo

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    Thanks for the rate and the luvdisc! I agree, Tornadus-I needs way more love.

    I'm a little confused about why you think I'm weak to grass-types--this is a rain team, but in fact I only have two weaknesses and 3 resists! Tornadus is also great against pretty much all grass-types, OHKOing the majority of them. Thanks for the comments though!
  4. Ninetale3

    Ninetale3

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    Sorry I forgot to mention that.

    I am thinking of not just the stab but the coverage moves. Shaymin has earth power and could ko tornadus on the predicted switch with HP Ice. Scarfed Mow-rotom is the worst case scenario,albeit rare, can take this on with relative ease with leaf storm, voltswitch/tbolt and HP Ice.
  5. Kidogo

    Kidogo

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    Thanks a lot alexwolf, the tornadus set is really fun to use.
    Thanks for the luvdisc!
  6. MikeDecIsHere

    MikeDecIsHere And the haters gonna hate hate hate hate hate.
    is a Smogon Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

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    Hey, cool team

    It's nice to see a rain team that's not so black and white in this meta. My one suggestion would possibly be to run Shed Shell on Jirachi, because Tornadus-T and Dugtrio teams look like they can give you hell. Volcarona also looks like it can be annoying if it gets a boost (especially Rain Variants with Hurricane, Bug Buzz, QD, and Fire Blast), but I can't really find a fix that won't change the dynamic of your team (maybe Shed Shell Heatran over Rachi, but then you lose Wish Support, not sure if you want that). Cool Team!

    Edit: Oh and if you do run Shed Shell, run Protect over U-Turn. The guaranteed Recovery will allow you to beat Tornadus-T more effectively
  7. Kidogo

    Kidogo

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    Feb 11, 2012
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    That's an interesting suggestion mikedec, i haven't encountered any dugtrio + tornadus combos, although I see what you mean. Dugtrio can't OHKO rachi even with a band though, and if I see duggy in team preview I'll play more carefully with rachi (and that's what u-turn is for). I actually haven't found volc to be much of a problem at all, since all i have to do is get is poisoned or perish songed and then tenta can easily stall it. Tornadus also OHKOs and latios outspeeds even after a quiver dance and does ~70% with surf. Heatran does sound like an interesting option, I'll keep that in mind, though I hate that its main STAB is halved in power. Thanks for the rate!
  8. alexwolf

    alexwolf Fear the D
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    To fix the problem MiceDecIsHere mentioned, i suggest you to remove any SpA evs and use max Def Jirachi with a Bold nature. Here is how much Dugtrio's EQ deals vs 252/252+ Jirachi: 42.07 - 50.49%, never a 2hko, factoring in lefties, so you will always be able to escape from Dugtrio with 56% life left at worse... You mention that the SpA evs allow you to ohko Vaporeon in rain, but i never considered him to be a threat, as he is so rare. Most Vappys i see are used in BP chains... So i don't think you need to spend all those SpA evs just to cover such an unimportant threat.
  9. MikeDecIsHere

    MikeDecIsHere And the haters gonna hate hate hate hate hate.
    is a Smogon Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

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    A Banded EQ however puts Rachi in Tornadus-T KO Range. I actually thought Latios was Specs, hence why I thought Volc was more of a threat than it actually was. I would probably go with AlexWolf's suggestion then, at least making Jirachi more defensive. You will still have trouble pulling a Wish off, but I'm sure you can work around it.

    Also, I'm not a mice :[

    Edit: and I have a Rain Team with Banded Duggy :]
  10. chimpact

    chimpact fire nation
    is an official Team Rateris a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Tiering Contributor

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    Great team. I only have a few suggestions.

    I'm not sure how valuable U-turn is. But Thunder and U-turn don't provide you with a lot of offensive presence. If you give Jirachi Iron Head over it, it allows jirachi to handle breloom and dragons in general better. what's the point of outspeeding them if you can only thunder them and then u-turn out? If you alter your EV spread a bit to outspeed Mamoswine (EVs: 252 HP / 64 Def / 96 SAtk / 96 Spd), you can 2hko ADAMANT mamoswine with iron head after rocks.

    Additionally, I would give Latios Psyshock over Psychic. Psyshock allows you to rely less on T-Spikes from your Tentacruel.
  11. alexwolf

    alexwolf Fear the D
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    I have seen like 1 person use Band Dugtrio in the last year, me, so i don't think it is very relevant, and lol sry Mike :D
  12. Kidogo

    Kidogo

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    Feb 11, 2012
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    Ninja'd lol

    Iron head is something I'm testing, u-turn is just so useful though. It would help against mamo though, so that's definitely worth considering.

    That EV spread is definitely an option, rachi's EV spread can be played around with. The extra power comes in handy a lot though, I was using vappy as an example of thunder's power since vap is pretty specially bulky. I have considered making jirachi more physically bulky anyway, for outrages and the like. I think I'll stick with my spread for now though, as I like the added power. If this becomes more common (I don't think I've seen that combo before, and neither is a very big threat tbh) I'll definitely consider the change.

    Thanks for the rates guys, keep them coming!
  13. bubbly

    bubbly

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    Dec 4, 2009
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    I'm sure I'm missing something, but wouldn't Therian forme Tornadus do a better job than the Incarnate version you have? You don't get priority Substitute, but I really don't understand how that matters except if you're trying to Toxic stall Mamoswine. Torn-T's base speed will usually do the job, and unlike Tornadus-I, it gets more chances to come in and Substitute spam thanks to Regenerator.

    Apart from that...Scizor + Tyranitar will cause you oodles of difficulty. Your only safe switch to Scizor is Tentacruel, and if the opponent brings in an offensive TTar (or Dugtrio, or CB Terrakion, etc) you'll either be Pursuited or else forced to take a massive hit which will often cost you a pokemon. Having Tornadus-T would help quite a lot here, because it can sponge a predicted U-turn, and gives you another check to ScarfTar. You might also want to try physically defensive Gastrodon over your current set, which still walls Water types comfortably but does a lot better against TTar, Terrakion, Scizor and the like (oh, and it means CM Rachi's Psychock is a lot less threatening).

    Other than that, really nice team, and thank god someone isn't posting the same cookie cutter Genesect weather teams.
  14. Superpowerdude

    Superpowerdude is an official Custom Title Rater
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    Hey man this is a very nice looking rain team gongrats on the peak and that Tornadus-I set is boss

    I really don't have to much suggestions for this team as it seems quite solid but regarding your Latios i don't see why you would not use Psyshock>Psychic Psyshock as you probally know hits your opponent on there physical defense helping your Latios revenge kill Calm Mind Keldeo once it has accumilated a few boosts while it is also a good option to beat Terrakion in sand because of the special defense boost sand brings. Also Psyshock happens to deal more to Chansey and Blissey then Psychic. Despite its slightly weaker base power (80) as apposed to Psychic (90) it is the more useful option for its ability to hit the mentioned pokemon harder. It also hits Amoongus on its weaker defense.

    Other then that this team looks perfect good luck with the team and Luvdisc'd :)

    Tl;dr
    Show Hide
    Show Hide


    Psyshock--->Psychic



    ~Superpowerdude
  15. Bryce

    Bryce Lun

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    443
    Hey,Kidogo.I remember you giving me that team..Fantastic Tornadus-I set.lol I was once thinking that after it's Therian form caused it to perish,someone would bring it back with a new set using prankster and there you are....

    Changing Jirachi's EVs to go more defensive is something i think you should do as well as giving it Iron Head.The pink blobs can be a pain,especially when paired with a Poison type/Rapid spinner.They can poison Gastrodon and limit the life span of your attackers.In a rare case if Rotom-W carries HP Grass and the opponent has Pursuit TTar/CB pursuit Scizor to get rid of Latios,it will give you some problems.Jirachi won't like Rain Boosted STAB hydro pumps.You just have to play around it I guess and it's pretty rare anyway.

    This team is both excellent and creative.So I'm definitely giving you a Luvdisc
  16. Ames

    Ames

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    Awesome. Not only a creative rain team but a great use of Tornadus I. I will agree with you on its effectiveness... I made the interesting mistake of forgetting to change Tornadus' form. It was suprisingly useful as I was using a sub set at the time and could deal massive damage. Missing Regen is disappointing though.
  17. Premier8

    Premier8

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    Hello Kidogo! Man, you've got to share more of your teams with me so I'll stop bothering you to help me build my own. :)

    This is a very creative and cool rain team that also uses some underrated sets. And its proven its worth by reaching number one on the ladder. So for that your definitely getting a Luvdisc from me.
  18. Ricky Horror

    Ricky Horror

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    one question how do you kill Blissey and chansey?
  19. zzazzdsa

    zzazzdsa

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    Hey Kidogo,

    Nice team you have here. Really, I honestly can't find any glaring weaknesses in this team, so this rate will pretty much be nitpicks :P.

    Well, first off, if Mamoswine is being a bitch, consider running 32 speed EVs on Latios to avoid the OHKO from Ice Shard at full HP. You might also consider scarfing Politoed to revenge it, but it could cause some synergistic problems.

    I can't understand using Attack EVs on gastrodon; SubCM rachi has no recovery and WishCM runs defense to avoid the 2hko anyway. Try a spread of 252 HP/ 36 Def/ 220 SDef with a Sassy nature on Gastrodon; this will avoid a 2hko from tornadus-t's LO hurricane if duggy/torny strategies are problematic.

    A well played EQ DDnite will destroy you if Latios is weakened, which is not exactly unfeasable as it's you primary revenger. The only real change I can come up with to fix this is using scarftoed though, so you might have to deal with it by other methods.

    Modest Jirachi seems kind of pointless to me; your rachi set really doesn't like taking 35% or so from rain boosted scalds, making the extra special attack kind of pointless. Try using a Bold or Calm nature instead.

    Well that's all I can say. GL with the team.
  20. Kidogo

    Kidogo

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    Thanks for the comments everyone!

    This is a really long post so I'm going to hide my responses:

    Show Hide
    There are a couple big advantages tornadus-i has over therian--it has higher base SpA, meaning it can run lefties while therian has to run LO to get a lot of the same (2H)KOs. While therian does have regenerator to help make up for this, sub + LO is already more than regenerator heals, and it also means I can't really stay in for a prolonged amount of time--it has no hope of beating bliss/chansey for example due to lack of recovery. Aside from all of this, priority substitute is just an incredible thing to have--for things like scouting scizor's move--bullet punch vs. u-turn/pursuit--stalling outrages from boosted dragons. Tornadus-T does have its merits, but overall I find incarnate fits my job much better.

    The thing is, this team is fairly stally in its components but plays more like offense--if it means weaknening the opponent's ttar, I'm OK losing tenta. However, even that seems unlikely--barring something like CB stone edge or EQ, tenta can take on ttar quite well, and a politoed switch is very risk-free. I'm definitely considering changing gastrodon's EV spread though--I made up most of them based on whatever calculations seemed relevant, so they could definitely do with some refining.


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    Thanks, the set is very fun to play with! :)
    You know what, I've been wondering for a while why I decided to use psychic > psyshock in the first place and can't really think of a good reason. I don't think I ever really liked psyshock as much since everything seemed to get hit harder by psychic but...I'll definitely test that out, taking down chansey/blissey easier is always a bonus! And thanks for the luvdisc!


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    Thanks, I definitely support a revival of incarnate, it has some definite advantages over therian (although regenerator is pretty cool).

    Iron head > u-turn is something I will definitely try out, having another (semi-) reliable way of killing the blobs is nice, and of hurting ttar too. I would have to change the EVs a bit though...is there a particular spread in mind?


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    Thanks a lot guys, this team was really fun to make! Regen is really a great ability, if only tornadus could get both (can you imagine that?!)...that might be broken though. Thanks a lot guys!


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    As I talked about in the RMT, pretty much the whole team is specially based, so bliss/chans are pretty annoying to face. As I said, toxic spikes really help, and tspikes + taunt lets Tornadus beat them one-on-one. Trick is also a last measure insurance against them, bu I don't like to use that until I've eliminated all their set-up sweepers. Interestingly, match-ups where the opponent has one of them often cause me to play kinda of stallishly--if I can eliminate everything but bliss/chans, natural cure is useless and I can perish song or toxic them. They are tricky to play around though.


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    Thanks for the rate zzazz!
    I assume you meant 32 Def EVs? Intersting...that's for a bandmamo right? I've definitely survived LO ice shards for less than that, and I can play around band quite easily--mamo is msot threatening when it's brought out lategame and is LO, since by then latios/tornadus may not be able to take an ice shard. Running some extra speed on rachi is definitely an option I'm looking into.

    You know what, you're right, I'm getting rid of those atk EVs. When I made that spread I was super worried about subCM rachi cause I had just been swept by it and was adding gastro like solely for it, but they really don't serve any purpose. I'll experiment with the spreads, as you said a SpD spread could work well.

    DDnite isn't usually that much of a problem--politoed can take a +1 outrage, toxic or perish song it, and then go to rachi to take outrages while paralyzing it. What gets problematic is when it has a lum berry AND toxic misses--then I usually have to perish song and then I'm in trouble the second time it comes in unless latios is in good health. Usually not too big of a problem though.

    The thing is, the SpA investment comes in handy a lot--being able to 2HKO tentacruel (depending on the spread) and other stuff is really handy sometimes. Overall though, I think you're right--a more defensive spread will probably work better.


    Thanks a lot for the rates everyone, I've gotten a lot of good suggestions. Keep them coming!
  21. Joeyboy

    Joeyboy Check out my Youtube channel! JoeyboyGames!
    is a Smogon Media Contributoris a Team Rater Alumnus

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    Yo dude :) he's that Sub-Tornadus team huh, very cool

    I don't want to recommend much but I definitely agree with trying Psyshock over Psychic on Latios for the reasons stated before.

    I also recommend running the following EV spread on Politoed: 248 HP / 156 Def / 64 SAtk / 40 Spd. The HP and Def EVs are just to take hits better and the SpAtk EVs allow Scald to have a 75% chance of OHKOing standard Landorus and a 50% chance of OHKOing standard Gliscor; finally the 40 Spd, so I will outspeed 99% of opposing Jellicent, letting you toxic them before they Taunt.

    Also try Iron Head over U-Turn on Jirachi. Jirachi really is half as effective without its paraflinching powers, I think U-Turn isn't bringing too much to the table.

    Congrats on your success! Good Luck!
  22. TGMD

    TGMD +Biosci: you both gave me crabs
    is a Tutoris a Battle Server Moderatoris a Team Rater Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
    Won OST Predictions

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    “hey, tornadus-I is pretty cool!” Lol, awesome team Kidogo.

    As you have have stated, Mamoswine is quite an issue. A small change that may help remedy this problem ever so slightly is changing your Gastrodon's EV spread to: 212 HP / 120 Def / 176 SDef This will guarentee Gastrodon's survival of an Ice Shard + an Earthquake from a Life Orb'd Adamant Mamowine, meaning you can switch in on the predicted Ice Shard with no ramifications and then proceed to KO. Obviously, Politoed is a better switch in to Mamoswine, but in most matches Politoed will be at low health due to the pressure weather wars, dragons etc. put on it, where as Gastrodon will be more likely to be at full health because it'll often be switching in on pokes that can't do anything to Gastrodon, such as Rotom-W or pokes Gastrodon has no trouble walling (most Special attackers.)

    Anyway, I hope this small rate helped and GL with the team! Luvdisc'd :)

    P.S: Here's a screenshot of your peak:
    Tasmania peak (open)
    [​IMG]
  23. Choice Specs

    Choice Specs

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    Hello Kidogo, I remember battling this team back when I used to play on showdown under the nick "Britney Spears". I must say this is a very solid team and very creative use of tornadus-I.
  24. Kidogo

    Kidogo

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    I've changed to psyshock and am already liking it better than psychic--thanks for the suggestion!

    The SpA investment is a good idea, I'm testing that right now, seeing if I miss any of the bulk. I'm not so worried about jellicent, as I already have a lot of ways of damaging it, but some extra speed might not be a bad idea.

    Iron Head it is! I've tested it out and much prefer it, so thanks everyone who made that suggestion!

    Yes, victory achieved!

    Mamo is a huge threat, and there are a couple different solutions I'm considering. Since I already give rachi iron head, I'm currently testing out running enough speed to beat adamant mamo, which allows me to 2HKO. Another option, suggested by zzazzsda, is running a faster tentacruel. I think I'm more likely to go with one of these solutions given the lesser investment needed, but thanks for the suggestion and I'll probably try it out anyway to see how it works!

    And thanks for the screenshot! I just couldn't get one to load.

    Oh yeah, I remember you! Thanks a lot!



    Again, thanks for the comments everyone and keep them coming (and don't forget to luvdisc! :D)
  25. MCBarrett

    MCBarrett i love it when you call me big hoppa

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    I remember battling this team when you were like 15-1 and I knew you were gonna top the ladder right away cause I had some pretty good hax on you and you still won 4-0 lol, plus I could not find like any real weaknesses on this team and you're a good battler too. Congrats on the awesome team! Definitely the best one of played against

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