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The Great Misdirect

Discussion in 'Past Gen Teams' started by Sirfunchalot, Jun 21, 2010.

  1. Sirfunchalot

    Sirfunchalot

    Joined:
    May 23, 2007
    Messages:
    292
    So after a few months and a lot of testing on the shoddy latter and on wifi I've created what is by far my most successful standard team (currently using more on the Suspect ladder). However it still has a few weaknesses that I'm hoping to address.


    [​IMG]
    (lead) Starmie [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    Timid
    252 Sp.Atk 252 Spe 6 HP
    Ability: Natural Cure
    [​IMG]Hydro Pump
    [​IMG]Ice Beam
    [​IMG]Thunder Bolt
    [​IMG]Rapid Spin

    Starmie is a straight up fantastic lead. It absolutely destroys a huge portion of leads with it's disgustingly powerful STAB Life Orb Hydro Pump. It's great speed let's it outrun or tie with just about every common lead except Aerodactyl, Ninjask, and Choice Scarf leads. But one of the shining attributes of this set is without a doubt Rapid Spin. After I get down most leads to their sash, I can simply spin away whatever entry hazards they tried to set up and KO them in return. I can and also frequently do save Starmie for later on in the match so she can come back to wreak havoc again on a weakened team, or spin away some hazards that ended up being set up later. Definitely my favorite lead in OU at the moment.

    [​IMG]
    Metagross [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    Adamant
    252 HP 240 Atk 18 Spe
    Ability: Clear Body
    [​IMG]Meteor Mash
    [​IMG]Earthquake
    [​IMG]Explosion
    [​IMG]Stealth Rock

    Lum Berry Metagross is fantastic for quite a few reasons. It's incredibly bulky, can take status, dish out monstrously powerful hits, and set up stealth rock, while also being able to explode to take out a threat, such as Crocune or Curselax. Metagross is also my lead Starmie's main partner in crime as he can come in on a few of the leads that Starmie really hates to go up against, like Tyranitar and Machamp.

    [​IMG]
    Flygon [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    Jolly
    252 ATK 252 Spe 6 HP
    Ability: Levitate
    [​IMG]U-Turn
    [​IMG]Earthquake
    [​IMG]Outrage
    [​IMG]Thunder Punch

    Choice Scarf Flygon is quite possibly the best scout in the entire game. It out-speeds just about everything allowing me to either smack it with the appropriate attack, or U-Turn safely if I predict a switch. Also can do a lot of damage to an already weakened team once I know what they have. And of course I partnered him with his favorite teammate and the most overused pokemon in standard...

    [​IMG]
    Scizor [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    Adamant
    248 HP 252 Atk 10 Spe
    Ability: Technician
    [​IMG]U-Turn
    [​IMG]Bullet Punch
    [​IMG]Pursuit
    [​IMG]Superpower

    Seriously, what am I supposed to say about Choice Band Scizor? Everyone who plays OU should have encountered this beast at least once. STAB Technician Bullet Punch absolutely tears through anything that isn't massively invested in Defense and HP or Resists it. STAB U-Turn allows for incredibly hard hitting scouting. Pursuit locks non-substitute/protect HP Fire Gengars and pokemon like him who share a Pursuit weakness. And Superpower, of course, is for murdering the pink obese nurse whore, Blissey, who is my second least favorite pokemon in OU, after Breloom. Also covers both of Flygon's weaknesses while Flygon resists Scizor's.

    [​IMG]
    Gyarados [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    Adamant
    252 Atk 252 Spe 6 HP
    Ability: Intimidate
    [​IMG]Dragon Dance
    [​IMG]Waterfall
    [​IMG]Earthquake
    [​IMG]Stone Edge

    Dragon Dance Life Orb Gyarados is an absolute monster after he sets up and is easily capable of running through teams. With excellent typing, great defenses in 95/79/100, and Intimidate, Gyarados can switch in on a hell of a lot of things, except powerful rock and electric attacks, who will make short work of him if I'm not careful. And it is because of this extra natural bulk that I chose him over his more widely used cousin, Salamence, for the role of set-up sweeper. And obviously, choosing Gyarados lets me use this team on the Suspect ladder, where Salamence is forbidden.

    [​IMG]
    Infernape [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    Naive
    66 Atk 252 Sp.Atk 192 Spe
    Ability: Blaze
    [​IMG]Fire Blast
    [​IMG]Close Combat
    [​IMG]Hidden Power (Ice)
    [​IMG]Grass Knot

    My final pokemon and my main Wall Breaker for taking down stall team, while also being able to take down a ton of OU's top offensive threats in the process. The moves Infernape has allow him to hit every pokemon for at least neutral damage, and a huge number for powerful super effective damage. The main reason why I chose Infernape is because he can easily pound the ever-loving crap out of Skarmory and Blissey, two pokemon that can give my team a lot of problems if I let them stick around.

    [​IMG]
  2. Sirfunchalot

    Sirfunchalot

    Joined:
    May 23, 2007
    Messages:
    292
    Defensive Threats:


    [​IMG] Blissey - Infernape can smack it in the face with STAB Close Combat, Metagross can keep meteor mashing it or explode, Scizor can Superpower. far from a huge threat.

    [​IMG] Bronzong - Infernape can Fire Blast it, Starmie can 2hko with Hydro Pump, Gyarados can basically force it to explode, where I can switch in something like Metagross to take the hit, or it can risk being KO'd from Waterfalls.

    [​IMG] Celebi - Infernape, 2 U-turner's, an exploder, a choice band pursuit user, and powerful Ice Beams make Celebi far from a huge threat to me.

    [​IMG] Cresselia - Scizor and Metagross can make pretty short work of it provided it isn't some weird Psycho Shift Burn Orb thing that I was up against once.

    [​IMG] Dusknoir - I really like never see Dusknoir's, but if I did, it could sadly cause me some problems. I guess Starmie and Infernape can 2hko with Hydro Pump / Fire Blast respectfully, but that's about it.

    [​IMG] Forretress - Infernape and Starmie can beat the piss out of it, provided they don't switch into an explosion or something or Infernape into an Earthquake. Gyara if he's set up is certainly taking him down after stealth rock.

    [​IMG] Gliscor - Infernape, Starmie, Gyarados all easily take him down with powerful super effective hits.

    [​IMG] Gyarados - Flygon can easily revenge kill with Thunder Punch, Metagross can take a hit and explode, Infernape can 2hko on the switch with Grass Knot, and Starmie can Thunderbolt it to oblivion.

    [​IMG] Hippowdon - Infernape's Grass Knot, Metagross' Explosion, Starmie's Hydro Pump, and Gyarados' Waterfall all severely hurt, or ohko Hippowdon.

    [​IMG] Jirachi - I'd just like to say I hate Jirachi, first of all. But then again, it really doesn't cause too much of a problem to my team, unless it's the calm mind sweeper, in which case I am basically screwed if it sets up.

    [​IMG] Rotom-A - Yet another one of my problem pokemon, and the reason I was contemplating running Scarftar instead of Scarf Flygon. I really don't have much that can deal with Bulky Rotom unless you count Flygon being able to come in on Thunderbolt. =/

    [​IMG] Skarmory - Starmie and Infernape both murder basically any skarmory.

    [​IMG] Snorlax - Infernape can come in and Close Combat it, Scizor can Superpower it or U-Turn to a counter, and Metagross can blow up in his fat face.

    [​IMG] Suicune - I tend to have a problem with Suicune's especially ones with HP Electric because i don't really have much that can take them down aside of Metagross exploding on them. or trying to outspeed the non-bulky ones and do something like have Flygon Outrage (Thunder Punch if it's low enough on HP) into it, then drop in Infernape to finish the job with Close Combat. A good Suicune counter would be appreciated.

    [​IMG] Swampert - Infernape Grassknots and Starmie Hydro Pumps.

    [​IMG] Tentacruel - Flygon can come in on a toxic spikes or rapid spin and OHKO it with Earthquake.

    [​IMG] Tyranitar - I have pleanty of things that easily deal with Tyranitar, flygon's stabquake and rock resistance, scizor's bullet punch, starmie's hydro pump, and both of my scouter's U-Turns.

    [​IMG] Vaporeon - Starmie can Thunderbolt it, and if it doesn't have ice beam, flygon can hopefully get in a few outrage hits and Thunder Punch it as well.

    [​IMG] Zapdos - Starmie can hurt it pretty badly with Ice Beam, especially after stealth rock, flygon can switch in to anything except HP Ice and hit it really hard with Stone Edge, gyara can also run it over with stone edge provided he got the dance up and can definitely outrun it or hit it on the switch in.


    Offensive Threats:


    [​IMG] Azelf - if it's the lead, Starmie's Hydro Pump + Rapid Spin make short work of it and get rid of its stealth rock.

    [​IMG] Breloom - Metagross can take the sleep with lum berry and smack it in the head with a meteor mash. and provided I got it out of its sub, starmie and infernape can both hit it really hard with super effective hits, also scizor can ko it with bullet punch.

    [​IMG] Dragonite - the leads are dead meat to Starmie, but later in the game Flygon can outrage it for the OHKO even if it's jolly and got a dragon dance. Infernape can also OHKO it with HP Ice.

    [​IMG] Electivire - Does anyone good honestly even use this thing? But uhm, Metagross can OHKO it with earthquake, and so can Gyarados if it gets it on the switch in or has a dance under his bealt and it isn't scarfed or something. I'm also pretty sure Infernape can OHKO it with Close Combat.

    [​IMG] Gengar - scizor gets the non-sub/protect ones that carry HP Fire, starmie can ohko with hydro pump, gyara with a dance can outrun and ohko with waterfall.

    [​IMG] Gyarados - Flygon can switch in to anything but Ice Fang and OHKO with Stone Edge after Stealth Rock.

    [​IMG] Heatran - Gyarados can take pretty much anything it dishes out except explosion. Infernape can ohko it with close combat if it isn't choice scarfed, and starmie can do the same with hydro pump.

    [​IMG] Heracross - Gyarados resists both stabs and intimidates it, so unless it stone edges on the switch, it's not doing anything to him, and it's also really uncommon. and if it's choiced (which they almost always are), I can still easily revenge kill it with just about anything on my team depending on what it used.

    [​IMG] Infernape - Gyarados is my main infernape counter, being able to come in and intimidate on a resisted close combat and ohko with waterfall (or set up a dragon dance). Flygon can also come in on a fire attack or stone edge or something and ohko with Earthquake.

    [​IMG] Jolteon - The only thing on my team that can take Specs Jolteon on is Flygon, and only if I'm switching in on Thunderbolt basically, so I can ohko with Earthquake. Basically I have a huge weakness to this thing.

    [​IMG] Kingdra - can do a lot of damage to me if it's set up, but if it isn't yet, then I'll probably have to sack something to it so that I can revenge it. But flygon can come in on a dragon dance and ohko with outrage.

    [​IMG] Lucario - Gyarados intimidates and resists it's close combat, and takes mediocre damage from most other things and can KO with earthquake

    [​IMG] Machamp - Metagross gets 2 meteor mashes and doesn't care one bit about the confusion.

    [​IMG] Magnezone - gyara outspeeds and ohkos with earthquake provided it isn't behind a sub, flygon earthquakes it, infernape gets it with fire blast and close combat, metagross can get it with earthquake unless it magnet rises, and scizor can ohko with superpower if I predict it I guess.

    [​IMG] Mamoswine - Starmie OHKO's with Hydro Pump, Scizor OHKO's with Bullet Punch, Infernape OHKO's with either stab, Gyarados OHKO's with Waterfall, and metagross can ohko with meteor mash.

    [​IMG] Metagross - provided it doesn't have an Occa or Shuca Berry a ton of my pokes can OHKO with Earthquake, and Infernape gets him with Fire Blast.

    [​IMG] Salamence - Well he isn't on suspect, but when I'm playing standard OU, Metagross can switch in on Outrage, and so can Scizor, and both can smack the crap out of him. Gyara can stone edge it as it switches in and Infernape can HP Ice him in the face.

    [​IMG] Scizor - Gyarados makes all except swords dancer's with quick attack basically set up fodder.

    [​IMG] Starmie - Gyarados outruns and OHKOs non bulky versions with Earthquake. Scizor can lock it in place with Pursuit and OHKO as long as I survive a hydro pump. and I can also U-Turn it for some decent damage and switch in something to take the predicted attack from it.

    [​IMG] Togekiss - Gyarados smacks his face in with Stone Edge, Scizor can repeatedly Bullet Punch it, Starmie can Ice Beam/Tbolt it, Flygon can come in on twave and Stone Edge.

    [​IMG] Weavile - Scizor can come in on any of its attacks and OHKO with 3/4 of its attacks. Gyarados can also come in and intimidate it and set up a dance or just go for the ohko with stone edge.

    [​IMG] Yanmega- can be a bit of a problem late game, but scizor can definitely make short work of him with Bullet Punch, and Gyarados can take a hit and OHKO with Stone Edge, same with Flygon.
  3. firecape

    firecape This is the end...
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

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    Messages:
    1,048
    Just a quick little nitpick, you may want to replace pursuit on Scizor for something else. I suggest quick attack, which allows you to revenge things like Jolteon, Starmie, DDgyara and subpetaya Empoleon. Pursuit really only has its use against the aforementioned Gengar since Latias went bye bye, and Gengar is still 1HitKOd by BP after SR.
  4. KidX

    KidX

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2010
    Messages:
    495
    Ok quick suggestions here:

    Switch meta with stamie cuz meta makes a better lead. The rest looks fine
  5. Methmite

    Methmite

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2010
    Messages:
    150
    I disagree. I think quick attack over pursuit is a terrible idea. Pursuit allows for scizor to hit all psychic and ghost type, 2 very annoying types mostly due to speed and damage, for SE damage, whether they switch or not. Celebi, gengar, the occasional Alakazam, their all dead, garunteed. While granted pursuit may not be the most useful attack when compared to others, I wouldnt recomend quick attack over it. the only poke on that list that you cant revenge with Flygon is Empoleon.
  6. Sirfunchalot

    Sirfunchalot

    Joined:
    May 23, 2007
    Messages:
    292
    Aside of the fact that Metagross can set up stealth rock, how exactly is it a better lead? I'm pretty sure Starmie can take on more of OU's common leads a lot better, and the few that it can't, Metagross is more than capable of switching in to. It's not nearly as true the other way around.

    As for the Pursuit vs. Quick Attack thing, it's something I honestly haven't ever tested yet, but I'll definitely try it out seeing as how I've been seeing quite a few more QA Scizor's in the RMT section.
  7. Nosferalto

    Nosferalto We're all gonna make it
    is a Team Rater Alumnus

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2008
    Messages:
    1,870
    I can't help but notice the lack of a reliable way to take on Rotom-A. Defensively, it walls 3/6 of your team (Metagross, Scizor and Gyarados) and it is also able to pose an offensive threat to your team since nothing can switch-in safely and threaten it immediately. Looking at your team, it seems like the most replaceable member right now is Metagross. You can solve this issue regarding the Rotom-A weakness with the addition of Heatran instead of Metagross. Go for Shuca Berry as an item with Fire Blast | Earthpower | Explosion | Stealth Rock and 4 HP / 252 SpAtk / 252 Spe. Heatran still sets up SR reliably just like Metagross and provides a solid Rotom-A check, being able to switch-in safely on a predicted Shadow Ball and Will-o-Wisp or Overheat (Rotom-H) activating Flash Fire and hitting it with STAB Fire Blast. In addition, it does a wonderful job at luring in and significantly weakening Bulky Water- types with Explosion, clearing the path for Infernape and Gyarados to pull off a sweep.

    On Flygon, I would strongly reccomend using Thunder Punch instead of Stone Edge. Both allow Flygon to revenge kill DD Gyarados, but Stone Edge is a bit of a risky way to do so because of the accuracy. In fact, Stone Edge's main selling point is the ability to pick off weakened Zapdos but this team has so many ways of doing so and cannot afford to miss a Stone Edge against Gyarados as that would basically mean gg, so that's why Thunder Punch is definitely the way to go.
  8. KatamariLovesSpock

    KatamariLovesSpock

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2009
    Messages:
    48
    You could swap one of Starmies attacks for Psychic as most lead Machamp are carrying Lum Berry and if my hunch is right a boosted LO Psychic from Starmie will OHKO, though I haven't done the number's seeing as I don't do that. Regardless It still allows a more viable option to tacking down Machamp, instead of leaving it to It's own devices on the switch and revealing another team member. I'unno just an idea.
  9. Sirfunchalot

    Sirfunchalot

    Joined:
    May 23, 2007
    Messages:
    292
    The Heatran sounds like a great idea for when I play on shoddy (since the Rotom forms aren't able to be used on WiFi), although it does leave me quite a bit more open to lead Machamps, so a suggestion on what to do there would be appreciated, since I'd like to keep Starmie as a lead with rapid spin if possible.

    And I think I'm definitely going to opt for Thunder Punch on Flygon. I honestly never even thought of that before, but that should definitely give me a huge edge against opposing Gyarados.

    Starmie's Psychic will do 92%-109% on standard attacking lead machamps averaging 100% damage, but on low rolls will fail to OHKO. Also if I drop say, Rapid Spin for Psychic, I think lack a spinner for Gyarados who really hates taking stealth rock damage.
  10. killadav2007

    killadav2007

    Joined:
    May 10, 2008
    Messages:
    143
    Ill help a little bit.

    1st, Starmie doesn't need Psychic to take care of Machamp, seeing how it is it should not even be in on Machamp leads. Meata/Starmie have good synergy according to SMOG #9. Machamp, will most likely payback when it see starmie so, you should go straight to gross and MM is a 2HKO seeing how Champ has no guard so you wont miss a Metor Mash.

    Next, You should change Infernape >>>>> Heatran. Heatran, can deal with Rotom-A on shoddy and is to good to pass up on WIFI. Try this set out for Heatran

    Heatran @ Choice Scarf
    Rash/Timid/Modest
    40 HP / 252 SpAtk / 216 Speed
    - Fire Blast/Over Heat
    - Earth Power
    - Hidden Power Ice / Hidden Power Electric / Hidden Power Grass
    - Explosion / Dragon Pulse

    Pokemon that Heatran wants to out speed with Choice Scarf:
    - Timid Choice Scarf Heatran (w/ Max Speed)
    - Aerodactyl + Jolteon + Weavile (w/ 395 Speed)
    - Dragon Dance + Tyrantar (w/ 365 Speed)
    - Starmie + Azelf + Latias + Gengar (w/ 362 Speed)
    - Infernape (w/ 347 Speed)

    From these statistics we can see that 365 Speed is very essential as it is composed of every Pokemon slower than 365 Speed. While with 395 Speed helps with out speeding those three common threats (Aerodactyl, Jolteon, and Weavile). While Choice Scarf Heatran isn´t a reliable revenge killer for Aerodactyl, it´s better not to use it against Aerodactyl. Heatran can also live any attack from Jolteon or Weavile with it´s bulkiness and can OHKO them with Fire Blast. So, having max Speed EVs is not necessary. But, if your team is weak against those Pokemon, then you would want max Speed. But, we´re trying to find the most ideal set, so it´s better not to invest unnecessary EVs that doesn´t help with the best results. So we want Choice Scarf Heatran to have a Speed of 365. This means we don´t need to use a Nature that boosts its Speed. So we must invest 216 EVs in Heatran´s Speed.

    Last, You may want to Replace Gyrados >>>>>> Dragonite. Since you have all Physical guys Except for Infernape/Starmie. Try This
    Dragonite @ Life Orb
    Mild/Rash
    64 Atk/ 252 SP.A/ 192 Spe
    - Draco Meteor
    - Super Power
    - Flamethrower/Fire Blast
    - Roost

    Well Hope I Helped.
  11. Sirfunchalot

    Sirfunchalot

    Joined:
    May 23, 2007
    Messages:
    292
    Well the purpose of Specially Based Mixape on my team is to give me a huge advantage against Stall. It takes down skarmory, gliscor, blissey, swampert all in one shot, as well is scaring away a lot of other threats with 330 speed.

    Scarftran is mostly a revenge killer, of which CS Flygon and CB Scizor are both perfectly capable of filling such a role. Also running two choice scarf pokemon would severely hurt me even further against stall, where I need as many options open as possible.
  12. killadav2007

    killadav2007

    Joined:
    May 10, 2008
    Messages:
    143
    Yea true that. Sorry i add that D-Nite set see what you think in replace of Gyra
  13. Sirfunchalot

    Sirfunchalot

    Joined:
    May 23, 2007
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    292
    Well, Gyarados' role is of my main sweeper (hence the boosting move in Dragon Dance). While Mixnite is good and all, it would essentially just be another pokemon filling Infernape's role of wall breaker, and Infernape is generally better at that. Also Gyarados' typing is far better suited to my team than Dragonite, who essentially just doubles up on Flygon's weaknesses and then some. I don't want two pokemon extremely weak to a CB Mamoswine's Ice Shard lol. Also Gyara has Intimidate, which is a lot better than Inner Focus usually lol.
  14. Sirfunchalot

    Sirfunchalot

    Joined:
    May 23, 2007
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    292
    bump. I've been having some trouble with SD lucario's and Zapdos' as of late. I'm thinking of making Gyarados the bulky dancer EV spread and giving Flygon Stone Edge again.

    What should I do Smogon?
  15. Wanderer

    Wanderer

    Joined:
    May 1, 2009
    Messages:
    95
    This team is pretty stall-weak in general. I'm seeing a bit of an issue here against bulky waters, specifically Vaporeon. Vaporeon can come in on basically anything on the team (except Starmie) and wall most of your pokes including Flygon's Outrage which only does 43% maximum, and Explosion from Metagross if it predicts properly with Protect. To make things worse, it often runs HP Electric to kill off Gyarados. Now, Starmie would be a good counter for that if you play conservatively with it, but since it's in the lead slot it's a bit iffy to be relying on it.

    Try Zen Headbutt over Meteor Mash on Metagross. You lose power on a bunch of things, but you gain a good deal of neutral coverage that lets you hit a lot of things you couldn't normally hit without Exploding (and Rotom, who you wouldn't hit with Explosion anyway). Since you haven't mentioned any problems with it I won't make elaborate anti-Vaporeon plans, but just keep an eye out for it. Your Suicune problems are less worrisome due to it not having reliable recovery; you can just sac Metagross to offensive versions either by smacking it repeatedly with Zen Headbutt (or Earthquake if you decide not to make that change) and then eventually Explode when they think you don't have it. Defensive versions are more or less set-up on by Gyarados. What would really help in this team would be a Breloom somewhere, but I can't really find anywhere to put it.

    Also, I don't think Scizor is doing much besides providing another Dragon resist and U-turn. Most of your revenging needs are taken care of by Flygon. I don't know how you play with it, though, so I could be wrong about it not being very useful. If you do think it's not performing that well, I'd suggest you replace it with Scarf Tyranitar with the following set:

    Tyranitar @ Choice Scarf
    4 HP / 252 Attack / 252 Speed
    - Stone Edge
    - Crunch
    - Superpower / Earthquake
    - Pursuit

    Superpower lets you kill Blissey, while Earthquake is for Steel/Psychics (bar Bronzong). This lets you cover some of your old threats better than Scizor does, such as Rain Dance Kingdra, Zapdos, Jolteon, SD Lucario, Heatran, and Rotom-A (also covers Starmie better as LO Hydro Pump and OHKOes your Scizor); it also covers most of the same things Scizor did. Scizor isn't gamebreaking against stall anyway, so having a second Scarfer here doesn't change that much. This thing will kill scarfrotoms easily, and if you predict a wisp from a defensive one you can just switch to Infernape for a free Fire Blast.

    The last thing I can think of right now is to give your Gyarados a Jolly nature. This will let you outrun all Adamant Lucario, which are the ones that run Stone Edge (Jolly ones run crunch for Rotom-A), which will let Gyarados check it in a pinch. In addition, you now outrun all Jolteon after a DD, which further offsets that weakness of yours. If you're really worried about the defensive Suicune, you can consider making your Gyara bulkier and maybe giving it Taunt over Earthquake to let it match up better against stall.

    As a final note: you might want to start switching TTar into Heatran instead of Gyarados if you decide to add it; Gyara is always 2HKOed by LO Fire Blast after SR damage.

    Hope I helped; PM me if you need anything else. Good luck with the team!

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