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The Great Theories-- TR OU Peaked 1985 ACRE

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by Absolete, Jul 8, 2013.

  1. Absolete

    Absolete

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2012
    Messages:
    89
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]THE GREAT THEORIES[​IMG]

    With the new support garnered behind the Higgs-Boson Theory, this theory can be classified as one of the most important theories of the Physical Universe. Higgs-Boson Theory explains why elementary particles have mass, along with explaining many other aspects of the atomic realm. This provides further underlying support for theories such as Relativity, Big Bang, and Uncertainty Principal. This team is in no way related to this theory, other than in the naming.

    This team is a full Trick Room team, much like Celestial Beings, a previous RMT done by me. With the changing Meta-Game, the Trick Room team also needed and change, and with the recent success of other Trick Room teams, I decided I would post this one as well. For those of you aspiring team makers, don't be afraid to try Trick Room. It's not a gimmick any more, there are enough options of support to actually allow a successful team to be built entirely upon Trick Room, not to mention how fun building and playing these teams are. I hope you all enjoy, and all comments and criticism are appreciated. This team is retired for me, and as such, PLEASE use it for your own, but if you would leave the names I would appreciate it greatly. Without further adeu, to the team building.

    [​IMG]Peer Review-- Team Building Process[​IMG]

    The team building process for this team was very long and arduous. Rather than including pictures as I normally would, I'll just add some explanation as to the Pokemon that used to be on the team and are no longer.

    If you don't care, please skip to the next section.

    Celebi- While a greatly useful pokemon, was replaced by Jirachi for the added Wish Passing ability. Celebi's main role was to take care of Bulky Waters, and having Stealth Rocks.

    Ferrothorn- SD Ferrothorn was used after Celebi, but before Porygon-2. He was used, once again, to check Bulky Waters. His need was removed when P2 came into the scene and Jellicent was given Giga Drain.​
    Bronzong- Had a short stay as OTR Bronzong in Porygon-2's spot. Was used to open a slot for Jirachi by having access to SR.​
    Landorus-T- Landorus-T was one of the initial Pokemon on the team. He proved to not be as useful as having another setter, while the damage output was nice, he was too overlapping with Conkeldurr.​
    [​IMG]Published Theory-- The Team In-Depth[​IMG]
    [​IMG]Big Bang
    --Jirachi--
    @ Lum Berry[​IMG]
    Trait: Serene Grace
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
    Sassy Nature
    IVs: 0 Spd
    -Iron Head
    -Wish
    -Stealth Rock
    -Trick Room

    Jirachi--the pure utility Pokemon. Jirachi's main purpose on the team is sustain. The wishes passed by it provide me with easy switch ins to threats after Trick Room has been set up. Iron Head is usually used only in dire situations--when a little luck is necessary to be remove an important piece of the opponents team. Stealth Rock is often, surprisingly, not used. This is because of Jellicent, more on him later. Jirachi is the lead about half the team, with Jellicent sharing the lead the rest of the time. The EV's provide Jirachi with as much Special Bulk as possible. With the natural bulk of the Pokemon on the team, it's hard for the opponent to break this team fast enough to warrant his or her victory, and having a great Special Wall slows their attempts even more. As stated above, this difficulty is further increased by Jirachi's wish passing. If Jirachi gets off Trick Room a couple of times and dies sending a wish to his ally, he did his job perfectly. The Lum Berry might be a bit surprising, but Breloom is a huge problem for this team, and it helps if Jirachi is holding a Lum Berry to absorb a Spore if Breloom kills another member of the team. Pretty drastic measures to essentially check a single Pokemon, but so it must be.


    [​IMG]Relativity
    --Reuniclus--
    @ Life Orb[​IMG]
    Trait: Magic Guard
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 HP / 4 SDef
    Quiet Nature
    IVs: 0 Spd / 0 Atk
    -Psyshock
    -Shadow Ball
    -Focus Blast
    -Trick Room

    Reuniclus-- the Ace-In-the-Hole Pokemon. Reuniclus is, I think, the biggest wild card of the team. Team Preview is such a great thing, making it able to see if there's only one or two things that need to be removed before Reuniclus can sweep the rest of the team-- and this is often the case. In situations like that, Reuniclus is no longer a Trick Room setter, but instead an ace in the hole. He waits in his ball until his counters have been played around, and is able to come in on full health to wreak havoc to the other team. However, not every team is Reuniclus weak of course. When the other team doesn't have such an opening for me to exploit, Reuniclus is a standard Trick Room set-up sweeper. It sets up Trick Room and is more than willing to switch out if need be. Psyshock helps deal with special walls, as this team has many special attackers, and Focus Blast and Shadow Ball provide perfect coverage. Reuniclus really shines when the opponent is throwing around hazards, as well. Magic Guard is such a useful tool for setting up Trick Room when the opponents team relies hard upon the hazards dropping Pokemon into OHKO range for their team.

    [​IMG]Gravitation
    --Jellicent--
    @ Leftovers[​IMG]
    Trait: Water Absorb
    EVs: 232 HP / 24 Def / 252 SAtk
    Quiet Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spd
    -Trick Room
    -Magic Coat
    -Hydro Pump
    -Giga Drain

    Jellicent--the Scizor deterent Pokemon. Jellicent's excellent typing is really what finds him room on the team. The Ghost/Water typing, along with his bulk, provides very necessary checks to Scizor's STAB moves, as well as immunity to the ever-dangerous Super Power. Jellicent is a very tricky member of the team to use correctly, and often requires a lot of prediction--an example of this is against Sun Teams, where Jellicent can net a huge advantage against a badly predicting opponent. Against Sun Teams, I always lead with Jellicent. If they lead with a hazard setter, I use Magic Coat to steal their hazards, which gives me an advantage right off the bat. However, many people lead with Ninetails and, when they see Jellicent, try to use Solar Beam. I immediately switch to Tyranitar, making them be stuck charging their Solar Beam, losing their weather setter to a OHKO from Stone Edge, and putting the battle strongly in my favor. This is just one example of using Jellicent as bait, but it seems to happen all the time. Magic Coat is nigh invaluable on a Trick Room team, reflecting back that pesky taunt. With Jellicent's bulk, Taunt users generally won't be able to OHKO him before he can set up Trick Room after reflecting back their Taunt. Jellicent really is a glue that holds the team together. The EVs for Jellicent put him at a Leftovers number, while maxing Special Attack to help do some real damage to Scizor with Hydro Pump and dent Bulky Waters with Giga Drain.
    [​IMG]Evolution
    --Porygon2--
    @ Eviolite[​IMG]
    Trait: Download
    EVs: 224 HP / 32 SDef / 252 SAtk
    Quiet Nature
    IVs: 2 Atk / 30 SAtk / 2 Spd
    -Ice Beam
    -Thunderbolt
    -Hidden Power [Fire]
    -Trick Room

    Porygon2--the Bulk Pokemon. Porygon2's main role is to take hard hits and set up Trick Room in dire situations. Even the strongest Outrages from unboosted Dragons don't OHKO Eviolite Porygon2. Additionally, Porygon2 can be used well to net a Special Attack boost in most matches, turning him into a fearsome sweeper. People don't run the 4 SpD EVs to prevent Genesect's Download boost anymore, which lets Porygon2 reap the rewards of being Under Used. BoltBeam+Fire coverage is very useful in today's metagame, and thanks to Tyranitar, Rain isn't always up, allowing Porygon2 and easier time with those weak to fire. the EVs allow for a Stealth Rock number, while the IVs ensure minimum speed and attack while maintaining HP Fire 70. Porygon2 isn't often a switch in, but instead is used as a revenge-setter for Trick Room, as not a lot other than very strong Fighting moves can take it out in one shot. As such, Porygon2 rarely receives Wishes from Jirachi, but nearly always gets his job done just the same.

    [​IMG]String
    --Conkeldurr--
    @ Life Orb[​IMG]
    Trait: Iron Fist
    EVs: 252 Atk / 192 HP / 64 Def
    Brave Nature
    IVs: 0 Spd
    -Drain Punch
    -Ice Punch
    -Mach Punch
    -ThunderPunch

    Conkeldurr--the threatening Pokemon. Conkeldurr's role is simple-- Kill as much as possible in 3 turns by using his amazing Attack and good coverage. The choice of Iron Fist over Sheer Force was very difficult for me, but I eventually decided to go with Iron Fist for the boost in Mach Punch's strength (after losing a battle to a Scizor who survived my Mach punch with 3% HP remaining). Iron Fist allows the use of Drain Punch over Hammer Arm, as well. Drain Punch provides a way to heal off some of the Life Orb recoil, and is also the reason why Conkeldurr's HP EVs aren't closer to being maxed. Lower HP means more percentage healing from Wishes and from Drain Punch, and 192 EVs leaves Conkeldurr at 399 HP-- a Stealth Rocks and Life Orb number. Ice Punch and Thunder Punch are used for the predicted Jellicent and Lati@s switch ins that are caught so often, as well as nailing any flying type that resists the fighting STAB. Conkeldurr is the most common receiver of Wishes, and is often the MVP of the team. his mammoth Attack stat, along with great coverage and every move boosted to 1.2x by Iron Fist make him fearsome indeed.

    [​IMG]Higgs-Boson
    --Tyranitar--
    @ Life Orb[​IMG]
    Trait: Sand Stream
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 HP / 252 SAtk
    Brave Nature
    IVs: 0 Spd
    -Crunch
    -Fire Blast
    -Ice Beam
    -Stone Edge

    Tyranitar--the answer to weather teams Pokemon. Tyranitar was placed on this team at the very start of the endeavor for a sole purpose--Not letting Rain and Sun have their way easily. Sand isn't especially great for this team, with two Pokemon receiving damage from it. However, Sand is less detrimental than allowing the opponents Pokemon to throw around 100% accurate Thunder's and one-turn Solar Beams. On top of this purpose, Tyranitar is an excellent mixed attacker. With access to Fire Blast and Ice Beam, many of the top threats in OU are OHKO'ed outright, and with Trick Room up, Tyranitar doesn't have to worry about the speed deficit that these threatening Pokemon often bring him, Crunch is to help deal with Ghost types, who otherwise more or less wreck this team, namely 3 attack Gengar. Stone Edge is a very questionable move for me, and Super Power has been strongly debated for me, but Stone Edge proves to be more useful, as it gets Ninetails in one hit, as well as not overlapping quite as much with Conkeldurr as Superpower would. the EVs maximize Tyranitar's attack power, which leaves him much more fragile than other Tyranitar often are, but it's a necessary cost. At the end of the day, Tyranitar keeps the more harmful weather away, and that's enough to warrant him a very valuable spot on the team.

    Reference Section-- The Conclusion
    The conclusion is the reference section, because no one will read it. Much like the references of scientific papers. Anyway, this team has been very successful for me, netting me an ACRE of 1985, going 20-3 on the ladder, and getting me to 85th place.
    [​IMG]

    This is a very fun team to play, and as I said above, please use it. I'm not a great battler, and I suspect that someone can peak much higher than I did with this team. If you do, please let me know. I'd love to know this team is being used to its full potential. Thank you all for reading, luvdisc if you liked it (Fake luvdisc, luvdiscs are gone), and feel free to PM me if you ever want help building a Trick Room team.

    Also, for those of you who may have noticed, these section headers don't have the decal on both sides because I was over the image limit.

    Printed in Science Magazines-- The Export
    Big Bang (Jirachi) @ Lum Berry
    Trait: Serene Grace
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
    Sassy Nature
    IVs: 0 Spd
    - Iron Head
    - Wish
    - Stealth Rock
    - Trick Room

    Relativity (Reuniclus) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Magic Guard
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 HP / 4 SDef
    Quiet Nature
    IVs: 0 Spd / 0 Atk
    - Psyshock
    - Shadow Ball
    - Focus Blast
    - Trick Room

    Gravitation (Jellicent) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Water Absorb
    EVs: 232 HP / 252 SAtk / 24 Def
    Quiet Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spd
    - Trick Room
    - Magic Coat
    - Hydro Pump
    - Giga Drain

    Evolution (Porygon2) @ Eviolite
    Trait: Download
    EVs: 224 HP / 32 SDef / 252 SAtk
    Quiet Nature
    IVs: 2 Atk / 30 SAtk / 2 Spd
    - Ice Beam
    - Thunderbolt
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Trick Room

    String (Conkeldurr) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Iron Fist
    EVs: 252 Atk / 192 HP / 64 Def
    Brave Nature
    IVs: 0 Spd
    - Drain Punch
    - Ice Punch
    - Mach Punch
    - ThunderPunch

    Higgs-Boson (Tyranitar) (F) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Sand Stream
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 HP / 252 SAtk
    Brave Nature
    IVs: 0 Spd
    - Crunch
    - Fire Blast
    - Ice Beam
    - Stone Edge
  2. Shurtugal

    Shurtugal The Enterpriser.
    is a Pre-Contributor

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2011
    Messages:
    1,302
    Hello, got the request! (Haha, I'm kinda behind on those right now).

    The reason why no one has commented on this is because most of the Team Rater badged users are too scared to touch Trick Room teams! :D Just look at that TR that peaked #12; it didn't get too many through rates from any of the TR badged users. xP

    Okay, so the biggest threat I see is Volcarona. If it can set up, it proceeds to insta-KO everything. TTar is the only thing you have for it, but it isn't exactly bulky. SD Acrobatics Scizor also looks hard to take down. The thing about this TR team is that it relies heavily on getting TR up, and neither Jellicent or Reu run recover so Jirachi is hard pressed to wish pass to things that get worn down by hazards (like Jellicent). This team is rather solid in it's teammates, so I won't need to change those this rate, but there are a few things I think I can fix.

    Tyranitar:Alright, this is by far the first thing we need to fix. I hate this set. The special attacking coverage isn't really needed (Fire Blast / Ice Beam) when Conkeldurr has the exact same coverage, as well as Porygon2. It's quite repetitive. I'd change this set to cover a few threats. You see, QD Volcarona is a huge threat and your TTar can't stop it and it needs bulk to constantly switch into Toed and Tales and Abama as well as trapping the Lati@s twins (yeah it needs Pursuit). Here is the set I recommend you try:


    Jirachi:This doesn't need too many changes. I would remove Stealth Rock for Protect so you can ensure that the wish completely (or 1/2, anyway; ehehe) heals Jirachi. As for an alternative I think could work; you could switch Lum for Leftovers, change the nature to Caregul, and adjust evs to hit 242 (which isn't much investment) to outspeed Breloom and successfully flinch it. It depends on preference, it isn't mandatory, but I felt mentioning it would be helpful for you.

    Jellicent: Giga Drain is really weak; and really, what is it hitting? I would replace Giga Drain for Shadow Ball for the sexy dual STAB. Additionally, Magic Coat is really bad. It just is. Utilizing Recover over Magic Coat allows you to continually set up TR, which is something that the team heavily relies on.

    Porygon2: Try Tri Attack over Ice beam for overall hitting power (hits lots of things harder in general).

    Conkeldurr: I prefer Fire Punch over Mach Punch on Conkeldurr; hitting Jirachi, Bronzong, Ferrothorn, SCIZOR, and other such steels is worth it.

    I hope I helped. Good luck trolling! :)
    kennystaraptorchew likes this.
  3. Absolete

    Absolete

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2012
    Messages:
    89


    Thank you for the response, Shurtugal!

    Changing Tyranitar's moveset to the one you provided feels almost like I'd have 2 mostly support pokemon, in Jirachi and Tyranitar. Pursuit isn't a huge necessity because, in all fairness, what on the team are the Latis going to switch into? Every member of the team is a huge threat to them, and if they happen to get away, oh well. Something just switched into a Crunch and is about to get a good coverage move to the face. Also, I do wish I had more SpD bulk on him, but he doesn't usually switch into Toed and Abama, I scare them off and then change the weather, and Ninetails doesn't do a lot of damage as is (and often doesn't even get to attack, if it's using Solar Beam).

    Jellicent's set I will certainly consider changing for Shadow Ball, with my only concern being Gastrodon. He's hell with no Grass type moves on the team. Right now Giga Drain is for other Bulky Waters, who Jellicent beats with Magic Coating their toxic and then Giga Drain for some sustain. I don't think I'd consider getting rid of magic coat, as it's the only thing that keeps Trick Room teams from getting wrecked by Taunt.

    For Porygon2 I did try Tri Attack, but I found it to be lackluster. I use Porygon2 more as a strategic coverage mon, and less of a full on sweeper than Tri Attack would support. The ability to set up Trick Room on an outraging dragon and OHKO with Ice Beam is wonderful.

    On Conkeldurr I did try Fire Punch for a while, but Ferrothorn is still OHKOed, and the others are only hit slightly harder (other than Scizor) by Fire Punch as compared to Drain Punch. If I did use Fire Punch I would still be using the Sheer Force set, though. Mach Punch is the only priority on the team, and has been useful for picking off the random survivor with Trick Room down, but I'll test Fire Punch again!
  4. Natsu Slayer

    Natsu Slayer

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2012
    Messages:
    37
    You can also try Choice Specs Jellicent If you want, so you can hit harder. I don't think you will need 3 Trick Room users.

    Jellicent (M) @ Choice Specs
    Trait: Water Absorb
    EVs: 172 HP / 252 SAtk / 84 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Water Spout / Surf
    - Shadow Ball
    - Surf / Gigadrain
    - Ice Beam


    Give it a try. Probably it work better than yours ;). GL with the team.
  5. Absolete

    Absolete

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2012
    Messages:
    89

    I have 4 Trick Room users :P Full Trick Room teams need at the very least 3 users, and if it's only 3 I always find I need recovery on them as much as possible, so that'd take away a moveslot from Reuniclus and Porygon2 as well. Also, Why would I use that EV spread and Nature for a Trick Room team?
  6. Electrolyte

    Electrolyte I'll be your light, your match, your burning sun
    is an official Team Rateris a Contributor to Smogonis a Battle Server Moderator
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2012
    Messages:
    1,968
    Hey there, contrary to popular belief, Team Raters do occasionally rate Trick Room teams.

    This is another cool and interesting Trick Room team from you, nice job. Unfortunately, it does not seem as if this team really utilizes Trick Room as much as it uses resources to maintain it. You have four Trick Room setters, but really only 2 (Reuniclus / Conk) that can actually take advantage of the Trick Room to deal damage to your opponent. It seems as if your team focuses too much on maintaining a Trick Room that it doesn't even fully take advantage of. To increase the effectiveness of this team, you need to add some more Trick Room abusers not only so that your Trick Room is not wasted but also so that you can worry less about being sweeped / walled by opponents. You also need to decrease the amount of Trick Room setters so that they can focus more on supporting the team in ways besides Trick Room, which you can never 100% fully rely on. There are also some other moveset problems that you need to address. Trick Room is a tough strategy to play with, and you've already done quite well, but there are still quite a few ways you can improve.

    Because it's simpler to do so, we should first fix the overabundance of Trick Room problem. Putting Trick Room on 2/3 of your Pokemon is quite a waste, especially if you are not relying on it that much. To kill 2 birds with one stone, I suggest you swap out Trick Room on Reuniclus for Calm Mind, and then swap out Life Orb for Leftovers. There is no need for you to waste a slot of one of your main attackers to set up a field effect that its team members are dedicated to set up- instead, we should give it a boosting move so it can take advantage of the condition as well as sweep its opponent. Calm Mind boosts Reuniclus's Special attack and bulk and makes it a fairly frightening sweeper, especially in Trick Room, where virtually nothing that can take it out can outspeed it. Then, because you're running Calm Mind, Leftovers gives Reuniclus the recovery it needs to sponge hits as it sets up.

    However, Calm Mind Reuniclus is not enough as a sweeper. You'd definitely need another one- but don't worry, it's also already in your team. Conkeldurr, too, needs to take advantage of the Trick Room more than it currently is. To do this, I suggest that you give it Bulk Up instead of Thunder Punch, and then Leftovers instead of Life Orb. Like Reuniclus, Conkeldurr can also take advantage of the Trick Room by sporting a bulky, powerful, and "fast" attacking set. Bulk Up lets Conkeldurr easily set up on many different opponents, and then hit them for tons of damage. It also boosts the power of Mach Punch so Conk is tough to stop even after Trick Room's effects wear off.

    Now that we have fixed the Trick Room / Sweeper problem, we can address the inefficiency in some of the sets you have on your team right now. Tyranitar, in particular, currently has an odd set that I think should be tweaked so that it can occupy niches that better aid your team. The mixed set is slightly too gimmicky for the likes of this team, especially since the Pokemon that the mixed set is aimed to catch off-guard (Skarmory, Ferrothorn, Forretress, Landorus-T, Garchomp, etc) are not really very big threats. Instead, I encourage you to shift to a Choice Band set, with Pursuit to trap Ghost / Psychic-types and Stealth Rock so Jirachi does not have to run it. Here's the set.

    [​IMG]
    Tyranitar @ Choice Band
    252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpDef / Brave
    Pursuit / Crunch / Stone Edge / Superpower

    This Tyranitar accomplishes multiple things for the team other than just setting up weather to fuck with Rain and Sun. It seems to me that Choice Band Tyranitar would work best for the team because it hits like a truck, can take advantage of Trick Room to turn into a monster, and can trap and KO problematic threats, aside from screwing with weather. Its powerful Crunch and Pursuit are perfect for destroying Psychic / Ghost-types that can plague this team with SE attacks when Trick Room is down, and its CB boosted Stone Edge will cut through unprepared / weakened teams like butter. It can also take the role of bulky Trick Room attacker, as a Brave nature makes it slow enough to "outspeed" most OU Pokemon in Trick Room, and then wreck with its powerful STABs. It can sponge a hit or too as well, as 252 HP EVs and Sandstorm give it quite a bit of special bulk so it can be effective even outside of TR. It removes threats, hits like a truck, and sponge attacks- the perfect set for your team.

    Now, to prevent defensive walls (and Sableye!) from walking all over your team, I suggest you tweak Jellicent's set a little bit. Your current set runs offensive investment and attacks, which seems out of place as Jellicent's true role is to be a physical sponge as well as a taunt / hazard / status reflector and Trick Room setter. To help it do its, job, I suggest you run a bulkier spread of 248 HP / 216 Def / 44 Spe / Bold which gives it the extra Defense it needs to be able to easily handle physical attackers such as Scizor or Terrakion. Then, I suggest you replace Hydro Pump and Giga Drain with Scald and Toxic. This accomplishes a couple of things that all help Jellicent reach its goal as well as help the whole team succeed. Scald is decently powerful STAB that can also burn opponents and cripple them so your team has an easier time setting up. Hydro Pump's power is not needed as it really doesn't hit much hard anyway. Toxic is used to cripple defensive Pokemon, such as Slowbro, Sableye, Politoed, Ninetales, or opposing Jellicent, and steadily damage them so they can not effectively Recover stall to wall your sweepers. Toxic is especially useful against Sableye, a Pokemon which the rest of your team might find trouble successfully and reliably stopping. By replacing your offensive attacks with support moves, you well help Jellicent help its team more.

    Oh, and one last thing. Use Leftovers instead of Lum Berry on Jirachi. Breloom is a small threat to this team, and all other statuses can be absorbed by Reuniclus, who doesn't give a fuck about residual damage. Leftovers makes Jirachi last longer, letting it continuously come in and aid its team.


    These are a lot of changes, but I sincerely think they will help your team. Good luck!

    In short:
    TR / LO on Reuniclus --> CALM MIND / LEFTOVERS
    Thunder Punch / LO on Conkeldurr --> BULK UP / LEFTOVERS
    Tyranitar --> CHOICE BAND
    HPump / Giga Drain on Jelli --> SCALD / TOXIC
    NEW SPREAD FOR JELLI
    Lum on Jirachi --> LEFTOVERS
  7. Absolete

    Absolete

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2012
    Messages:
    89


    Hey Electrolyte! Thanks for the rate.

    It might be a personal playing style, but I've never gotten much success out of having set up sweepers on a Trick Room team, whether it be a Bulk Up type move or SD/NP, that extra turn in Trick Room is just so vital. Additionally, I feel like 4 TR setters is the standard and perfect number for a full Trick Room team, all the teams I've had success with have 4, as well as the ever popular Trick Room or Treat from ben gay. Tyranitar's Ice Beam is really the only part of the set that I'd miss going to yours, as it gets Gliscor who's a real fucking asshole. I might try the CB set out, I think I'll like it. I'll also try the more defensive Jelli, however I might miss the 2HKO on a lot of offensive Pokemon that Hydro Pump gives me (such as Scizor). With Jirachi, I fear Breloom as a +2 Breloom OHKOs the entire team if it rolls a 4 on Reuniclus with Bullet Seed, which is no bueno. He's a god damned beast, and I both hate and love him for it. mostly hate though, that bastard.
  8. Nights of Days

    Nights of Days

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2013
    Messages:
    17
    Hey, this is a nice team. I love using TR. My main recommendation to you would be change your Conk to a guts variant, as it would be a great stats absorber and can counter Breloom's spore and OHKO with boosted Ice Punch. As for the item it self I would recommend toxic orb b/c you will be switching out alot and won't staying in more than 3 turns.

    This is the set I use:

    Conkeldurr @ Toxic Orb
    Trait: Guts
    EVs: 212 HP / 252 Atk / 44 Def
    Brave Nature
    IVs: 0 Spd
    - Drain Punch
    - Ice Punch
    - Mach Punch
    - Facade (this is for those pesky psychic poks that like to switch in)

    For your Porygon2, I would recommend Trace, for turning the opponent's ability on its head, such as with Flash Fire, Water Absorb(you ain't scalding me no more Jellicent), Magic Guard, etc. Pory2 is already bulky so you can give it a bit more offensive capability and add more SAtk ev. BoltBeam already have perfect coverage, so you don't need HP fire so you can switch it to Recover. My recommended set:

    Porygon2 @ Eviolite
    Trait: Trace
    EVs: 252 HP / 56 Def / 196 SAtk / 4 SDef
    Quiet Nature
    IVs: 0 Spd
    - Recover
    - Ice Beam
    - Thunderbolt
    - Trick Room

    Finially you might want to consider adding a fast sweeper when your TR is down, such as skarfed MoxieMence. It can sweep and clean up like a beast. If you want more speed you can try Latios, or more power Kyurem-B. If you are not up for dragons, try: Terrakion, Darmatan, Mienshao, Keldeo, etc. (all of them skarfed preferably) Although they are good, I would recommend staying away from psychic and ghost types like Gengar or Alakazam, b/c you already have so many dark/ghost weakness.
  9. Absolete

    Absolete

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2012
    Messages:
    89


    Thank you for the rate! Try the team out, it's super fun if you like TR :D

    With Conk, I used the Guts set on Celestial Beings, a past RMT, and it was very useful, but that first turn often came back to bite me. The Iron Fist version with live orb is also 1.5x damage (1.2 from Iron Fist, 1.3 from Life Orb) and doesn't take a turn to set up. I'd essentially be trading one turn of setup for a status absorber, which might be useful if I start running into problems with status. However, your set is walled hard by Jellicent, I usually use Thunder Punch instead of Ice Punch, as Facade hits hard enough for most things anyway.

    With Porygon 2, I already have maxed SpA EVs, so I can't add more ;) and Bolt Beam doesn't have perfect coverage quite, it's good but not perfect. HP Fire lets me OHKO Scizor before he can kill me with a Superpower. I used Trace always in Gen IV, but now it seems like there's less and less that would be useful to Trace for P2, I can get a Download boost almost every game, but Trace would only net me an easy switch in once every couple games. I ran Trace before Jirachi, when P2 was my main defensive pokemon, but with Jirachi I need the added offense of Download. Fire Ice Electric coverage from 105 base SpA at +1 hurts a lot, and often takes momentum back even before setting up Trick Room.
  10. Nights of Days

    Nights of Days

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2013
    Messages:
    17
    Hmm.. guess I didn't look at your Pory2 long enough, I probably thought SPA was SPD. Any way for Conk, most of the time you are going to be switching into TR, so you don't really have to waste a turn just to get the toxic activation, but i can see what you mean when you have Breloom coming up before you get to activate toxic orb. Again I really would recommend late game, speedster for your team. I'm not exactly sure who would get replaced b/c alot of your team has a dedicated job, but you would be screwed if you can't set up TR. I would also recommend looking at Cofagrigus: its got bulk and power but a meddling speed, the perfect beast for TR. I have gone 0:6 sweep with after a few Nasty Plots. And no one really expects it, thinking of it as a defensive mon, they start setting up their hazards, or even setting up to sweep, but once TR is up, they are like "SHIT." It can also deal with ability reliant foes like Scizor, Heracross, etc.

    I normally use this set:
    Cofagrigus @ Leftovers
    Trait: Mummy
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef
    Quiet Nature
    IVs: 2 Atk / 30 Def / 30 SAtk / 30 SDef / 2 Spd
    - Trick Room
    - Nasty Plot
    - Shadow Ball
    - Hidden Power [Fighting]
  11. Absolete

    Absolete

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2012
    Messages:
    89

    Many people do run the fast revenge killer on Trick Room teams, and I indeed used to, but I prefer full TR with 4 setters. It's just a playstyle preference, I think. And Cofagrigus would go in Jellicent's spot for a more offensive look, still working on the things Jellicent works on, while having a more offensive presence. If I went with Cofagrigus I'd probably switch Jirachi out for a Magic Coat Bronzong, going for a full offensive look.
  12. Absolete

    Absolete

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2012
    Messages:
    89
    Using mah bump for more comments! Also for more encouraging of people to try Trick Room teams out.
  13. vyomov

    vyomov

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2013
    Messages:
    847
    Hi!
    Firstly, very nice team!
    I agree with a lot of the raters above, 4 TR Setters is a little much considering you have only two abusers.
    Why not replace Jirachi with Heatran? Heatran loves TR as it can easily abuse TR with a Specs set and has the bulk to tank hits easily
    This is the set:
    Heatran@Choice Specs
    Ability: Flash Fire
    EVs: 252 SpA/252 Def/4 HP
    IVs: 0 Spd
    Quiet Nature
    - Fire Blast
    - Earth Power
    - Dragon Pulse
    - HP Grass
    This takes care of the fire-type coverage as a result of which you can easily run CB Ttar and also offers Dragon Pulse to beat out Dragons.

    Best of luck!
  14. TX7Killian

    TX7Killian

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2012
    Messages:
    16
    Hi Buddy :]
    Really nice TR team ya got there! Enjoyed using it so far!
    However, I made some changes for my own, since there are some big threats.

    The first one is Landorus-T. No matter what set, it really gets to your team, and nothing, not even P2, enjoys switching into EQ. That's why I changed Jirachi to Bronzong, which can take it on quite easy. Jirachi really is nice with it's wish support for the team, however, like i said, Landorus-T is the biggest threat to your team. The second one would be Volcarona. Especially the new Pasho berry set poses quite a threat to your team. Under TR, of course, you can kill it with Ttar, but good players won't let that happen. You probably know that already. You can play around it with Jellicent, since it can take +1 giga drain, afaik. But other than that, idk how to play around this. I changed the Ttar set quite a bit, so that it can take on volcarona for the team. You can go with the set Shurtugal recommended, it does that job pretty good too. I also replaced P2 for Chandelure, since it never really did something for me, and helps with volcarona too. Also gave it Flame Body to maybe burn those scizors on the incoming U-Turn. But yeah, I think that's all. At least I can't think of anything else.

    Like I said, great Team so far, really enjoyed using it. Keep it up! :]
  15. TheArchangle

    TheArchangle

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2012
    Messages:
    85
    Nice team! I love seeing people make use of Trick Room! I don't have time for a full right at the moment, hopefully will get the chance to later. As for now, I suggest replacing Magic Coat with Recover allowing Jellicent to have more staying power so it can constantly throw up Trick Rooms. Also, add Water Spout instead of Hydro Pump. It's more powerful and accurate and you can keep it at max power with Recover in addition to the Wish support Jirachi provides. If you really want to keep Magic Coat for taunt the Wish support from Jirachi would still be enough to make good use of Water Spout though.
  16. Shaquiel

    Shaquiel

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2013
    Messages:
    10
    After using this team, it feels that it has no direct answer to opposing Jirachi, specifically the bulky sets abusing hax. The smallest change I can think of to fix it is to add Fire Punch to your own Jirachi. Given there's no room currently for the move, I would place it on Tyranitar, probably over Fire Blast or Stone Edge depending on which is needed. Conkeldurr does threaten with a 2HKO, but Jirachi annoys it to hell and back. A stronger change I can think of is replacing Tyranitar with Hippowdon to retain Sand and wall Jirachi. Whether you decide Hippo should have SR or Jirachi should have it is up to you.
  17. Absolete

    Absolete

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2012
    Messages:
    89

    Thanks for actually using the team, mah man! Conk, I believe, would indeed be my answer to Jirachi in most cases unfortunately. I could go with a fully Physical Tyranitar, as many people above would like to see, and include EQ in it. Out of curiosity, how high did you get with this team?
  18. Shaquiel

    Shaquiel

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2013
    Messages:
    10
    I didn't ladder, I played a few matches among friends and did rather well up until I faced a defensive Jirachi. I tried getting Conkeldurr in but it only managed one hit, so it was a misplay as well. I can practice a bit more, I guess, it's just I don't find Conkeldurr very good at taking out Jirachi with only 3 turns of TR.
  19. Shurtugal

    Shurtugal The Enterpriser.
    is a Pre-Contributor

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2011
    Messages:
    1,302
    This is why I suggested Fire Punch
  20. Absolete

    Absolete

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2012
    Messages:
    89
    Jirachi is a pain in the ass, but I don't think Fire Punch on Conkeldurr is the answer. Mach Punch is so valuable, inside of Trick Room and out, and Fire Punch is also not that useful in the rain, which many Jirachi's will be. Switching tyranitar into an Iron head and then out to Conkeldurr is no fun. Hammer Arm over Drain Punch would allow Conk to do the same damage as the super effective Fire Punch, while not being gimped by the rain. Jellicent can provide a very reliable set up on Jirachi, so that's a plus. I guess I don't know how I played around Jirachi, but he was never a super massive problem for me. Annoying, but not impossible. Perhaps I just got lucky, I haven't played in a while :D

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