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THE IDES OF MARCH (Weatherless Balance featuring Heracross)

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by Darkerones, Aug 3, 2012.

  1. Darkerones

    Darkerones

    Joined:
    May 21, 2011
    Messages:
    395
    The Ides of March

    Alright so its certainly been a while since ive made a rmt or really a serious team in general,but I finally took the time to get off my butt and update myself on the BW2 metagame and make the most competitive team I can muster,even it that does mean using a couple "top ten" OUs which I usually tend to shy away from,being the Pokemon hipster I am.

    So the idea to this team is to utilize Heracross,who in my opinion is a badass,as an effective revenge killer and late game sweeper in OU(with plenty of team support) through the use of the recently released Moxie ability.
    The team is named The Ides of March because the whole purpose of the team is to be able to switch in Choice Scarf Heracross as many times as possible and stab our adversaries in the back with a mighty Megahorn.

    Without further ado here is the team:


    [​IMG]

    Ferrothorn@Leftovers (M)
    Iron Barbs
    Impish
    252 HP 124 Def 132 SDef

    Power Whip
    Thunder Wave
    Spikes
    Leech Seed

    This set is pretty bread and butter for Ferro with some minor EV changes to take physical assaults from the likes of Dragonite better. Power Whip is the STAB of choice over Gyro Ball for its more useful SE coverage on the bulky water types that infest OU as well as Hippowdon,Tyranitar and the occasional Donphan. Thunder Wave is a great way to effectively neuter some of OU's top threats (such as Volcarona and Terrakion) that may switch into Ferrothorn hoping to use it as setup fodder,and it also allows Ferrothorn to outspeed slower threats such as Bronzong and Blissey. Theres barely any need to explain why Spikes is on Ferrothorn other than its very useful to Heracross and Gengar to perform late game sweeps. Leech Seed allows Ferrothorn to wear down the opponent and provides a method of recovery.

    With a truckload of awesome resistances,Ferrothorn is a real team player. Ferro is my main Dragon resist,and can also take Rock type attacks for Salamence. He also resists Heracross and Gengar's weakness to Psychic and Starmie's Dark,Ghost,Grass,and Electric weaknesses,sharing two of those weaknesses with Gengar. Heatran also appreciates Ferrothorns ability to take Water type attacks.

    [​IMG]

    Gengar@Life Orb (M)
    Levitate
    Timid
    4 SDef 252 SAtk 252 Spd
    0 HP IVs
    Substitute
    Pain Split
    Shadow Ball
    Focus Blast

    Gengar just oozes an aura of mischief,and this set demonstrates just how badly Gengar can mess a team up. Sub Pain Split is a cool strategy that can be used to bully Pokemon with high HP,most notably Blissey,who just loves to switch into any special attack it can. After using Pain Split at 50% health theres a good chance Blissey will be Koed by the following Focus Blast. Amoonguss,Bulky Dragonite,Defensive Tyranitar,Hippowdon,Kyurem,Conkeldurr,Gastrodon and Jirachi are all Pokemon that can be pushed around using Pain Split,plus Gengar is just an awesome special attacker than can hit hard and fast with Life Orb and a reliable STAB thats useful for deterring common threats to this team such as Reuniclus,Latios and Jellicent. 0 HP IVs are used to inflict as much damage with Pain Split as possible,Gengar cant take hits anyway.

    Gengar has a few useful immunities/resists that go a long way in making the team successful. Gengar's Ground immunity helps it switch in on Ground attacks aimed at Heatran and his Fighting immunity is appreciated by both Heatran and Ferrothorn. Gengar also boasts a nifty 4x Bug resistance to switch into moves such as U-turn usually aimed at Starmie. Gengar also happens to completely wall variants of Venusaur,Virizion and Breloom,Pokemon this team have a bone to pick with. The best the former two can do is fire weak Hidden Powers at Gengar and the latter is helpless without Stone Edge,making Gengar a decent check to them.

    [​IMG]

    Heracross@Choice Scarf (F)
    Moxie
    Adamant
    4 Def 252 Atk 252 Spd

    Close Combat
    Megahorn
    Stone Edge
    Night Slash

    Revenge is what Heracross does best.
    I've been just dying to try out Moxie Heracross since I think Moxie was almost tailor made for Hera. This thing is the star of my team,and is great at revenge killing and pulling off sweeps late game,boosting its already kickass Attack to amazing levels. Close Combat is a very powerful and reliable STAB that allow to smash through the likes of Magnezone,Jirachi,Hydreigon and Heatran all of which can give the team a headache. However,Heracross has another powerful STAB complementing the first one nicely,hitting Psychic type such as Slowbro that resist Close Combat super effectively and is also nice for not lowering Heracross's defensive stats. Stone Edge nails Flying types that otherwise crap on Heracross,and also scores a nifty KO on VOlcarona.
    Night Slash takes care of Ghost types such as Gengar,Jellicent and the occasional Cofagrigus.

    Heracross's typing allow plenty of opportunities to switch in. Its resistance to Fighting type moves is critical to this team's success,I'm sure Heatran and Ferrothorn would agree. Heracross resists Ground,a common attacking type that threatens Heatran and can also take Dark type assaults meant for Starmie and Gengar.

    [​IMG]

    Starmie@Leftovers
    Natural Cure
    Timid
    248 HP 32 Def 228 Speed

    Rapid Spin
    Psyshock
    Scald
    Recover

    Bulky Rapid Spin Starmie is one of my favorite sets of all time,and I never hesitate to use it because its so darn effective. The alternate EV spread allows me to take advantage of Starmie's resistances better and make Rapid Spinning against offensive threats easier. Rapid Spin is the crux of the set,as Salamence hates taking a Stealth Rock to the wings,and the rest of the team can do without Spikes damage. Scald is the STAB of choice to potentially burn physical attackers and emphasize Starmie's bulk,even with that EV spread Scald does respectable damage under rain and is of a great offensive typing.
    Psyshock takes care of Keldeo while bypassing any CM boosts it may have,as otherwise its a fairly large threat to the team. Recover goes a long way in maximizing both Starmie and the rest of my team's survival,keeping Starmie alive to spin hazards away more times and making sure that entry hazard casualties are kept to a minimum.
    With Natural Cure,Starmie can act as a status absorber,taking a burn or paralysis in the stead of Salamence or Heracross,therefore saving them from becoming useless and then switching out.

    Starmie's resistances to Ice,Water and Fire benefit Salamence,Heatran and Heracross respectively. Starmie is can also take Psychic attacks aimed at Heracross and Gengar and the omnipresent Fighting attacks for Heatran and Ferrothorn. Starmie is good at switching into Steel type attacks from the likes of Scizor,a Pokemon that can bully just about half this team with Bullet Punch,Starmie threatens it greatly with the burn chance of Scald. Starmie also acts as an excellent check to Terrakion,outspeeding and threatening it with a SE Scald that could also burn it.

    [​IMG]

    Salamence@Life Orb (F)
    Intimidate
    Naive
    64 Atk 192 SAtk 252 Spd

    Draco Meteor
    Outrage
    Earthquake
    Fire Blast

    Say hi to OU's most feared wallbreaker.
    The role of MixMence is to break down defensive cores that the rest of this team may have trouble taking on. SkarmBliss,FerroCent,and Jirachi-Gliscor are all effectively eradicated with this set, Even the AmoongBro + Heatran core will feel quite a bit of pressure from the MixMence. The Evs are spread to balance offenses while still maximizing Speed in order to outrun Haxorus and Hydreigon as well as keep up with other base 100s. Life Orb is used to make up for the power lost in splitting EVs. Draco Meteor is a great STAB to be used on physically inclined Pokemon such as Conkeldurr,Slowbro and Gliscor while Outrage then hits Special walls like Blissey and Gastron hard. Earthquake hits specially defensive steels(Jirachi,Heatran,Registeel) and Tentacruel for a good chunk while Fire Blast eliminates defensive steels (Skarmory,Metagross) and the usual array of Pokemon that are x4 weak to it (Scizor,Forretress,etc.). Fire Blast is also great to abuse when facing Sun teams and to torch the occassional Tangrowth.

    Salamence has plenty of resistances to abuse. Despite having a -SDef nature,Mence can still take its fair share of Fire,Water and Grass attacks that Heracross,Heatran and Starmie (respectfully) are weak to. With the help of Intimidate,Salamence can water down the powerful Fighting types of OU,much to Ferrothorn's benefit. A resistance to Bug also helps Salamence switch in on Escavalier and Scizor for Starmie,plus he completely walls off some variants of Volcarona and Venusaur,both huge threats.

    [​IMG]

    Heatran@Air Balloon(M)
    Flash Fire
    Calm
    252 HP 252 SDef 4 Def

    Lava Plume
    Stealth Rock
    Roar
    HP Ice

    Heatran is certainly the glue to the team,providing a phazing effort in the form of Roar to sweep aside pesky setup sweepers and providing SR support to aid the attackers of the team. The EV spread is designed to take various Special Attacks with ease. Lava Plume has a good chance to burn physical attackers and also discourages Jirachi and Skarmory from staying in. HP Ice makes sure Heatran can put a significant dent in the likes of Salamence and Gliscor.

    Thanks to Flash Fire,Heatran is my main switch in to Fire type attacks aimed at Ferrothorn or Heracross. He is also my only Flying resist,a type that Heracross is 4x weak to. Heatran is more than happy to take Ice and Dragon type moves for Salamence and sponge Grass type attacks for Starmie. Heatran also boasts a resistance to Psychic attacks that Gengar and Heracross despise while also resisting Dark and Ghost type attacks that haunt Gengar and Starmie. Heatran continues to be the only Steel type in OU that can stand up to Magnezone,doing so for Ferrothorn's sake.
    With the aid of Air balloon,Heatran walls the crap out of Sun teams and makes it a reliable check to Dragonite.





    ADDITIONAL COMMENTS/QUESTIONS:

    So far the team has been working well,but Sun teams can be a bit bothersome. Any recommendations for further checking Sun sweepers?

    Dragonite is also a huge threat,if i dont get rocks up he has a good chance of putting me in a tight spot. Multiscale is extremely bothersome to deal with when I lack priority,Multihit SE moves and Mold Breaker. Any ideas?

    Any other threats that stand out as extremely threatening to this team? Any gaping holes?
    Would the team be benefit greatly from Wish support or is it fine without it?

    My usual playstyle is HO so I couldnt help but notice that I have not a single setup sweeper on my team. Will this hurt my team?


    Thanks for reading. Rates are appreciated.
  2. Jimbon

    Jimbon FAKE TRAIN
    is a Team Rater Alumnus

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    Hi there!

    Cool team, making great use of MixMence and hazards to plow through teams. You did mention that Dragonite is a big problem for your team, and I agree. Bulky sets with Roost set up on Gengar and Choice locked Heracross, while you have nothing to switch to. Ferrothorn gets hit by Fire Punch while Heatran gets mauled by Earthquake. At +1, Dragonite will outspeed your Heracross as you're running Adamant, which gives you a big problem. To help with this, I highly recommend you run Jolly over Adamant on Heracross. Running Jolly seems a lot better for your team, given that you have problems with Dragonite, you can outspeed all Dragon Dance variants at +1 and revenge them with Stone Edge. Additionally, you also get the bonus of outspeed Scarf Heatran, +1 Haxorus, +2 Gorebyss / Huntail and +1 Haxorus, all of which have potential to be annoying for your team. This seems like a good chance when you are running Moxie, and the loss of power with Adamant is easily made up for after Heracross gets an easy kill.

    You also mentioned that you seem a little weak to Sun Teams. With no weather inducer of your own, you cannot stop Sun being up for the whole match. Chlorophyll abusers and Volcarona look especially annoying to face, as they outspeed your whole team with the Chlorophyll boost and can put things to sleep very easily. Teams with Dugtrio trap your main answer to Sun, Heatran. This leaves you a lot more vulnerable to Volcarona, the bulky Quiver Dance set with Morning Sun looks especially annoying, as it can set up on Gengar, Starmie and Ferrothorn with ease. After a couple boosts, it doesn't look like your team can stop it. Salamence checks it at best, but doesn't appreciate a +2 / +3 Fiery Dance at all. To help with this problem, I recommend that you try out Air Balloon > Leftovers on Heatran. While Leftovers is practical for gaining a little residual health every turn, the benefits of Air Balloon easily outweigh those of Leftovers. Air Balloon helps you take on Sun Teams a lot better. Those using Dugtrio will have to think twice about switching in on Heatran and trapping you. This means you can easily dispatch of Dugtrio, and as a result you take on the majority of Sun Teams, (Ninetales, Venusaur, Volcarona, etc). Additionally, this gives you an extra check against Dragonite, who you described as the biggest problem for your team. Air Balloon allows Heatran to avoid Dragonite's Earthquake and Toxic / Roar it out.

    Given how common Rain Teams are right now, I think that you could do something to aid against Rain Teams. I would recommend you try out Recover > Thunder on Starmie. Recover gives you longevity against these ever so common Rain Teams, as Starmie checks the majority of them very well. It means that Starmie can stick around for longer to have more opportunities to Rapid Spin. This is very helpful against Stall Teams when you need to keep Salamence alive, as it is a great stallbreaker and a threat to every Stall Team. By dropping Thunder, the only thing you lose is being able to beat Gyarados or opposing Starmie, which in itself is being reliant on your opponent bringing a Rain Team as you are risking Thunder's shaky accuracy otherwise. The role of Defensive Rapid Spin Starmie is primarily have an easier chance spinning, not to dish out massive amounts of Damage. I would also recommend that change your Starmie set a little, a set of 248 HP / 32 Def / 228 Spe seems a lot better for your current Starmie. This set optimizes Starmie's bulk, while also outspeeding everything up to Tornadus-I. If you choose to go with Recover > Thunder, you will find that speed tieing with other Starmie is not important, as you can't do anything to them anyway.

    Cool team, hope I helped!
  3. Darkerones

    Darkerones

    Joined:
    May 21, 2011
    Messages:
    395
    Thanks for the rate. The changes have been working out quite well for me although now I'm thinking about trying a more offensive Starmie or using a different bulky water,as my team isn't especially weak to hazards,I almost never let common Spikers live long enough to do much,nothing on this team cares about T-spikes really and only Salamence minds SR,and it isn't like he's jeopardizing his usefulness by switching into rocks (unlike a certain orange dragon I wont mention).
  4. himynameisAD

    himynameisAD

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2009
    Messages:
    29
    i think it would be a good idea to add dragon dance on salamence, like you mentioned. however this would possibly create problems against gliscor. switching hp ice over toxic on heatran may work, then giving ferrothorn toxic over thunder wave or leech seed if you need help against bulky walls.

    edit: since hp ice on heatran (unless its air balloon is intact) only works if you hit gliscor switching in, adding lum berry as salamence's item could buy you some time to get an extra dragon dance boost and strike back with outrage.
  5. Darkerones

    Darkerones

    Joined:
    May 21, 2011
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    395
    If I wanted a DD sweeper I would've used Dragonite,the whole point of MixMence is to break down walls,he isn't a sweeper.
    ThunderWave on Ferro is necessary to hamper sweepers that try to setup on me,plus Leech Seed works much better on Ferro than Toxic at wearing down walls since it also gives Ferrothorn recovery.
    HP Ice might work on Tran (Toxic was filler),but with the current EV spread it wont hurt much. Thanks for the suggestions though.
  6. CrackinSkulls

    CrackinSkulls

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2012
    Messages:
    208
    Just a quick suggestion:
    Try out Wallbreaker/ Scarf Hydreigon over Salamence as it appears to have better synergy with your team. Even the old UU ZoroCross Strategy can break down walls quite well a long with the two having great synergy. Anyway basically all im saying is Hydreigon>Salamence
  7. Superpowerdude

    Superpowerdude "The Phone-Post King"
    is an official Team Rateris a Smogon Media Contributor
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2012
    Messages:
    1,336
    Hey there nice looking offense team based around Heracross. Heracross is quite an underated threat in todays metagame.

    First of as you and others have mentioned you have got a large weakness to ddance dragonite since putting air baloon on Heatran your weakness to him has declined however I suggest changing Hp Ice>Toxic on Heatran. The reason being that this helps you with your dragonite weakness alot and while your are running air baloon pokemon like Gliscor and Salamence will try popping the baloon with a not very effective hit (Ice Fang,Dragon CLaw) and then go for Eq. With Hidden power Ice you make those pokemon pay for popping your baloon. It is also worthy to note that Gliscor also walls Heracross and Scarfmence can outspeed and Ko with Fire Blast so Hp Ice helps with that alot! Also the loss of Toxic is not that bad as With the combination of Hp Ice and roar Latias cant do much anyway.

    Also another thing I noticed aboutyour Heatran is its ev spread 248 Hp / 248 Sp Def / 12 Spe. There is no reason to really be using 12 speed evs because there is not point out speeding other speciall defense Heatrans without Earthpower and roar always goes last anyway you are better of going with 252 Hp / 4 Def / 252 Sp Def

    Jellicent is a bit tougher to handle but seeing as you can Ko +1 Dragonite after sr with Hp Ice and +1 Salamence with Hp ice, Jolly isnt needed to much on Heracross so I suggest switching back to Adamant>Jolly and having Night Slash>Pursuit Because with these changes you get way more powerful and get the ability to always 2hko Jellicent with Night Slash something that jolly cant do. Also seeing as Heracross is scarfed pursuit isnt to good of a move to be locked into because of its low damage output halting a moxie sweep, and besides alot of Psychichs can be taken out with Megahorn anyway or Night Slash!

    Nice team dude and good luck with it in future I hope I helped!

    Sets
    Show Hide

    [​IMG]
    Heatran @ Air Baloon | Flash Fire
    Calm | 252 Hp / 4 Def / 252 Sp Def
    Lava Plume| Roar| Hp Ice | Stealth Rock

    [​IMG]
    Heracross @ Choice Scarf| Moxie
    Adamant| 4 Hp / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    Close Combat | Megahorn | Stone Edge | Night Slash


    ~Superpowerdude
  8. Darkerones

    Darkerones

    Joined:
    May 21, 2011
    Messages:
    395

    Thanks for the rate. Ill definetley start using Night Slash and HP Ice (I never used Toxic).
    I'm still a bit iffy about Adamant>Jolly though. Jolly has worked just fine for me and Ferrothorn already handles Jellicent.

    I see where you're coming from but MixMence hasn't dissapointed yet,so I'm gonna stick with him for now.
  9. himynameisAD

    himynameisAD

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2009
    Messages:
    29
    i mentioned a dragon dance set because you asked in your additional comments/questions if not having a set-up sweeper would hurt your team. since you only have 1 pokemon with a physical fighting type move, chansey, and blissey somewhat, will wall your team well. salamence's outrage will only 2HKO standard chansey if you land max damage, meaning it can stall with softboiled as you take life orb recoil. gengar with pain split is a very situational strategy against them, especially since gengar is very frail and harder to keep alive throughout the match.
  10. Darkerones

    Darkerones

    Joined:
    May 21, 2011
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    395
    The team has actually been working fine without a setup sweeper. If Chansey becomes that big of a problem maybe ill shift more EVs into Attack on Salamence and even add Brick Break on it if neccessary.
  11. Darkerones

    Darkerones

    Joined:
    May 21, 2011
    Messages:
    395
  12. Darkerones

    Darkerones

    Joined:
    May 21, 2011
    Messages:
    395
    -sigh-
    BUMP.
    This team aint perfect,i need rates.
    Changed Heracross back to Adamant,the loss in power was too noticable.
  13. Professor Jacel

    Professor Jacel

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2012
    Messages:
    12
    Hmm I enjoy this team.
    MixMenced is great I like how you are using him.

    Here are my Suggestions

    On Gengar have you tired Disable Sub? I have not looked at everyone elses comments so I am not for sure if they mentioned it but just wondering.

    On Your Heatran. I like making use of HP Grass for coverage mainly. I realize your not an attacker and you do not want to be taken out by a Dragon but that is just merely a though.

    Starmie really does not have the "bulk" for Recover in my Opinion. Psychic may prove more usefull or even Thunderbot if you were to encounter the Rain. Even with 252 HP. I think you should switch to Timid with 252 Attack instead of HP but that is just me. It would be better as a special sweeper.

    I use a nearly Identical Ferrothron set up :D

    Herracross the Destruction of me sometimes. I can only say watch out for an Unexpected "Trick" Switch in. I have done this when Herracross as swtiched in and rendered it useless. Though I am not for sure why they switched in at the Time as my Latios could of easily Draco Meteored but That was there fault.

    Nice Team. Let me know if my Suggestions helped at all.
  14. Darkerones

    Darkerones

    Joined:
    May 21, 2011
    Messages:
    395
    Thanks for the rate. Ill definetley have to try SubDisable Gengar with this team,I've used it successfully in the past but this time I guess the idea of beating Blissey 1v1 with SubSplit seemed attractive.

    Using HP Grass on Tran would leave me incredibly Dragonite weak. Plus I wouldn't do much to bulky waters anyway since I lack SAtk EVs.

    There's really no need for another offensive special attacker on my team in my opinion,so that's why I go with Bulky Starmie focused on spinning not attacking,like others have said above Thunderbolt only lets me beat Gyarados and Psychic isn't a very good STAB.
    Sure Starmie has only have average bulk but my EV spread + Recover + Scald more than makes up for it.
  15. Lazyboy

    Lazyboy

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2010
    Messages:
    62
    Hey Darkerones, pretty nice team here.

    The two main problems I can see with the team are Keldeo and Rotom-W. The former can switch in on Heatran for free, Heracross locked into Stone Edge, or Salamence after it's taken a bit of residual damage and threaten to KO all of them. Whilst you can check it with Heracross, this is a bit risky as Heracross is OHKO'd by a LO Hydro Pump after Stealth Rock (87.74-103.64%). The fix isn't too hard actually, you can replace Ice Beam with Psyshock on Starmie. This allows you to switch in relatively safely, as long as you avoid switching into HP Ghost, and 2hko with Psyshock.

    Rotom-W is a little tricker to deal with. Both it's sets are pretty problematic, Scarf sets can keep you off your momentum pretty well. It can switch in on both Heatran and Starmie and only really fears the 30% burn chance from Scald or Lava Plume. It can also check mixmence, as long as it can avoid a STAB attack. Whilst Ferrothorn can take any attacks it has with ease, bar the rare HP Fire, Rotom-W will most likely just Volt switch against it, meaning Ferrothorn will be forced out and eventually worn down. Even worse, if it lands a Trick on Ferrothorn, your team really struggles. Bulky sets are much in the same vein, burning Ferrothorn to cripple it instead. Adding something like Gastrodon would detract from the teams fast paced play-style, so I'd recommend switching Salamence out for Mixed Hydreigon. Hydreigon can switch into Rotom-W much easier, as it has superior special bulk, doesn't sport a weakness to Stealth Rock and can take an unboosted HP Ice pretty well (44.78-52.76%). Also, with access to Roost, Hydreigon can switch into Rotom-W multiple times, so it won't be worn down as quickly. Here's the set:

    Show Hide
    [​IMG]
    Hydreigon @ Life Orb
    4 Atk / 252 Sp.atk / 252 Spe
    Mild Nature
    - Draco Meteor
    - Fire Blast
    - Superpower
    - Roost


    Finally, I really would suggest running Jolly over Adamant on Heracross. The loss in power does suck, but being able to outspeed +1 Adamant Haxorus and, much more importantly, Choice Scarf Rotom-W is pretty important.

    Finally, this is just a personal opinion, but how well has Moxie been working out for you? I've been using Heracross a fair amount recently and I really do feel that Guts is the superior option over Moxie. Whilst Moxie is a fantastic ability, Heracross really doesn't have the STAB moves for it. Close Combat is resisted by a lot of pokes in the metagame (Tornadus-T, Gliscor, Reuniclus) and it can be a difficult move to spam. It can also leave you weak to priority revenging when you're trying to sweep, even Brelooms Mach Punch does over 50% when at -1 Def. Megahorns accuracy is a big turn off, I can recall hundreds of games when i'll get to +2 attack, down to the final pokemon and then lose due to Megahorns shaky accuracy. Guts on the other hand, when paired with sleep talk, gives offensive teams a much appreciated sleep absorber, which is massive as Breloom and Amoongus usage has skyrocketed recently. Also, as I only just found out, Sleep talk can now be used repeatedly on a choiced pokemon without failing, which is always nice. Even without Moxie, Heracross still works as a decent clean up pokemon, and if Guts is activated it can hit just as hard unless your Moxie boosts get really out of hand. But again, this is just my personal experience with Heracross, do what works for you.

    Apart from that, the team looks pretty solid, good luck with it in the future and I hope my suggestions helped.
  16. Darkerones

    Darkerones

    Joined:
    May 21, 2011
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    395
    Thanks for the rate.
    Keldeo is very troublesome I agree. Psyshock it is.
    However I haven't found myself having too much trouble with Rotom,as VoltTurn has fallen a bit out of popularity so Choice Rotom isn't nearly as common as before and therefore not as big of an issue. Heracross and Gengar deal with bulky sets nicely I think.

    However if Rotom does give me issues in the future ill change back to Jolly on Heracross and give Hydreigon a spin like you recommended,even if it does throw off some of my balance between Special and Physical attacks/attackers and give me a slight Scizor weakness.
    CS and DD Haxorus is also too uncommon to be worth sacrificing attack power on Heracross (Jolly has left me rather dissapointed).

    Moxie is actually awesome on Heracross. Yes he does miss a few Megahorns but he hits when it counts,at least in my experience. He's like any other good Revenge Killer but also doubles as a late game destroyer. Nothing feels better than smashing through a Tornadus T or Latios (Pokemon that RESIST CCbat) thanks to Moxie boosts. It just gives the opponent a sense of panic that often closes games.
    Sleep Talk Guts Heracross looks interesting enough to try,but the whole point of this team was to support a Moxie Heracross.Thanks again for rating.
  17. chimpact

    chimpact fire nation
    is an official Team Rateris a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Tiering Contributor

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    Offensive teams really give you trouble. an SD scizor in particular can be a real problem to your team if you dont keep your starmie healthy or get a scald burn.

    I would definitely add in a Magnezone on this team so that Choice Scizor will not be able to spam bullet punch freely and it will essentially make them forced to go for U-turn or superpower if they don't want it to die. Magnezone will also help your salamence take on steel types a lot better.

    I would also give Heatran AT LEAST 180 Speed EVS with a Timid Nature if you're going to run air balloon. There's no reason for it to be bulky if you're not going to use leftovers. The bulk won't help it as much as the extra attack power. With 180 EVs you outspeed dragonite and mamoswine and with a balloon they're forced to use a move before they have to hit you with EQ.

    You should be really careful going up against tyranitar. with pokemon vulnerable to pursuit, you have to be very disciplined when going up against it.
  18. Darkerones

    Darkerones

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    Thanks for the rate,but where in the world would I fit a Magnezone in without opening up my Ground/Fighting/Fire weaknesses even more?
    Heatran is known as Scizors Nemesis so I never have trouble with him,even Salamence can check him thanks to Intimidate.
    Your suggestion about Heatrans EVs is noted though and ill test them out,even though I meant Heatran to be mainly a supporter with Roar and SR (the Air Balloon was only to check Dragonite better).

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