1. New to the forums? Check out our Mentorship Program!
    Our mentors will answer your questions and help you become a part of the community!
  2. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.

Other The infamous... Campfire KABOOM! [RMT]

Discussion in 'RMT Archive' started by Elevator Music, May 28, 2010.

  1. Elevator Music

    Elevator Music
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Site Staff Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnus
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2008
    Messages:
    7,742
    Most of you guys that have been on the ladder for a while probably know this team, and many of your profess to hate it. And to be honest, I would hate it too, because I generally hate playing defensive teams, especially annoying ones like this...

    The team was made a while ago, about a week before Krilowatt playtesting. I shot up the ladder then with it under the account Explosion, reaching barely over 1900 with it. I was tempted to post it here when playtesting started, but decided to hold off on it until I saw how it performed in a metagame with Krilowatt. It didn't really play any differently, and since people apparently hate this team so much I've decided to retire it, and so thus here we are.

    The team was based on the metagame at that time, where heavy offense and heavy defense clashed. Entry hazards ran rampant thanks to Syclant and Skarmory, and the presence of two powerful Ghost-types made hazards even harder to remove them than it is in standard OU. You've got offensive giants like Colossoil, DD Pyroak, and Stratagem that are trying to rip shit up. And so balanced teams are generally poor here, because they can't kill bulky pokemon like Arghonaut and Revenankh, and can't properly deal with Stratagem and Pyroak.

    I noticed, however, that both offensive teams and defensive teams have a generally hard time with a combination of Pyroak and Revenankh. Then I threw in stall-breaking Kitsunoh (who I've been wanting to test on a defensive team forever...) and an Infernape lead to get an edge against defensive teams. Finally, I rounded out my defensive core with Skarmory and Cresselia, to help myself against offensive teams.

    And so here's the team, working just as well in a Krilowatt metagame...

    CAMPFIRE KABOOM! (ver 2.11)
    [​IMG] [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    Vanarian [​IMG]
    Infernape @ Focus Sash
    Blaze | Hasty
    24 Atk / 232 Spe / 252 SpAtk
    - Fake Out
    - Stealth Rock
    - Fire Blast
    - Close Combat

    Infernape beats most CAP leads the same way it does in OU: it forces them to attack it or get up a single layer of entry hazards. In CAP, it only struggles with the rare Swampert lead, as well as Pyroak. Even still, it can easily get SR up against either of them, taking the Sleep Powder from Pyroak so I don't have to worry about having to take it later.

    I'm not worried about sacrificing Infernape whenever I need to, and it is usually the one to absorb the Trick from TrickScarfers.

    [​IMG]
    Spirited Away [​IMG]
    Kitsunoh @ Leftovers
    Limber | Jolly
    16 HP / 240 Atk / 252 Spe
    - Will-o-wisp
    - Taunt
    - ShadowStrike
    - Earthquake

    Kitsunoh functions well on this team as a way to get a quick and easy advantage against stall. It works well on a defensive team because a lot of Kitsunoh's checks (Heatran, Stratagem, and Colossoil especially) are easily walled by the rest of the team, meaning I can go to Skarmory or something and set up more Spikes.

    The only problem I've had is that ShadowStrike + Earthquake leaves me open to the Normal/Flying-type birds, especially Togekiss, who can be really threatening to my team, but I just don't feel that Superpower would be as effective. Still, food for thought I guess...

    [​IMG]
    Stymphalia [​IMG]
    Skarmory @ Leftovers
    Keen Eye | Impish
    252 HP / 228 SpDef / 28 Spe
    - Brave Bird
    - Roost
    - Spikes
    - Whirlwind

    Special Defensive Skarmory is probably the best way to go in CAP. It allows it to make sure it can set up Spikes against Colossoil, bar Taunt, and it can also let it take a hit from pokemon like Stratagem and the recently departed Latias. Spikes are oh-so-crucial to my team's strategy, since entry hazards are the prime way I wear the opposition down, and thankfully this team gives Skarmory plenty of opportunities to come in and do it's job.

    [​IMG]
    Sarimanok [​IMG]
    Cresselia @ Leftovers
    Levitate | Bold
    144 HP / 252 Def / 68 SpAtk / 44 SpDef
    - Reflect
    - Ice Beam
    - Moonlight
    - Psychic

    I originally had Slowbro, but Cresselia works so much better as just a versatile defensive pokemon. I would have changed this to Krilowatt, but Cresselia is my only decent switchin to DDOak (it's actually a really good switchin I lied), and it's a much better switchin to Salamence. Moonlight is worth it in CAP because Colossoil has mostly usurped Tyranitar's role of Ghost-killer/Pursuiter, so I don't deal with 25% healing much. Speaking of Colossoil, it actually can't beat this Cresselia thanks to Reflect/Moonlight/Ice Beam.

    Psychic is mainly there for Arghonaut, but it also works well against Gyarados and Fidgit.

    I don't remember what the EVs are for since they're ancient, so more help here may be nice, although they've been working out just fine :)

    [​IMG]
    Kuprion Cypriot [​IMG]
    Revenankh @ Leftovers
    Shed Skin | Careful
    252 HP / 40 Def / 216 SpDef
    - Bulk Up
    - Shadow Sneak
    - Hammer Arm
    - Rest


    The standard Bulk Up Revenankh functions well on this team for defensive synergy and supporting synergy. It is my second Ghost-type, and between Kitsunoh and Revenankh, I have no problems keep my hard earned entry hazards on the field. It is also my primary switchin to many special threats like Stratagem (who cannot break Rev in it's wildest dreams no matter how well it can "Break the Mold"), Latias, and even occasionally Cyclohm. Bulk Up Rev is also good against certain members of stall teams, often bringing out just the pokemon I want out because it has a great way of forcing switches.

    [​IMG]
    Campfire [​IMG]
    Pyroak @ Leftovers
    Flash Fire | Calm
    240 HP / 112 Def / 124 SpDef / 32 Spe
    - Leech Seed
    - Lava Plume
    - Substitute
    - Protect

    Seriously, this thing is so broken. It is relatively easy to bring in considering the current metagame is full of pokemon that it walls nicely (like Kitsunoh and what-not), giving it that one turn it needs to set up a Substitute or Leech Seed. Once it does, it is a giant pain in the ass to take down, and even if you do manage to force it out it definitely has the bulk to come in again and again and do it's job. The Fire immunity is somewhat small, but it allows Pyroak a boost to Lava Plume and more opportunities to come in literally for free (it also means Heatran cannot touch it).

    Protect might seem a bit unnecessary, but it is very good on the set for allowing Pyroak to stall even better and gain more HP back. This is on top of all the other small niches Protect already has like scouting Choice-items and wasting Outrage turns/PP moves like Stone Edge. Lava Plume makes life hell for pokemon like Salamence, and actually makes it threaten Skarmory and Kitsunoh so it can force the switches that it does consistently.

    Stratagem, one of the only pokemon actually threatening to Pyroak, is easily dealt with via LO recoil, entry hazard damage, and Revenankh. Kitsunoh forcing it in and out makes it die pretty quickly. Obnoxiously enough, opposing SubSeed Pyroak force my team and the opposing team into a giant version of PP stall, and this has angered me and user Fuzznip multiple times...

    Because people foresaw that Magic Guard Krilowatt may actually make this thing easier to deal with, I ran Energy Ball over Protect, and then Substitute. However, I found that Pyroak really needed both, and that Energy Ball wasn't worth it, especially seeing as Krilowatt can't touch Revevankh or Cresselia. It hasn't made life much harder for Pyroak to be honest...
    -----

    It's also probably best if you don't ask why I chose the nicknames I did, because they do make sense to me, but probably not anyone else...

    Problem pokemon (kinda?):

    [​IMG]
    NP Togekiss is a huge problem (although its rare so it's pretty mitigated). If it's running Flamethrower, the only pokemon that isn't instantly screwed is Cresselia, but it can't really beat it. Without Flamethrower it's more manageable though, because of Special Defensive Skarmory. Scarf variants are slightly more common, and also easier to beat.

    [​IMG]
    Tyranitar is annoying, but mostly just because of SS. It's dealt with by Revenankh and Skarmory (and also Infernape and Kitsunoh), but Sandstorm being up is an unusual hindrance...

    Others??? (someone tell me via IRC or something and I'll add it in, but really those are the big two).
  2. Rising_Dusk

    Rising_Dusk
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Battle Server Admin Alumnusis a Programmer Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2009
    Messages:
    4,806
    I hate this team so much. It is single-handedly because of this team that the CAP metagame has to reinvent itself or risk being consistently and reliably beaten by it. Nothing in the standard metagame beats this, and let me tell you, it is because of this team that I had to bring Tyranitar back to CAP. How many games has this won compared to how many it's lost? 200-20? 500-20? I've seen it beat the entire metagame without so much as breaking a sweat. You play it the exact same way every game and you just eat everything up. Honestly, this right here is a telltale sign of a very weak, centralizing, and chaotic metagame. I can't wait to do something about it.

    Anyway, major congratulations for making the team and ripping the metagame a new one. I'll make suggestions, but honestly, this team's record more than speaks for itself. I used to think a Swampert would've made a good member for this team as a lead, but I've come to like the second wallbreaker in the form of Infernape. Swampert would definitely give you an excellent switch-in to Tyranitar, to be fair. Other than that, I really can't make any suggestions, the team is great.

    P.S. Pyroak is so beyond broken.
  3. bubbly

    bubbly

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2009
    Messages:
    883
    Yup, lovely team. I've gone over it a few times and I can't think of any way you can improve against Togekiss which won't hurt you more than it helps overall, since its so underservedly rare.
  4. Aquamarius

    Aquamarius

    Joined:
    May 7, 2010
    Messages:
    43
    CBTar Pursuit(no switch) VS Cress : 33.6% - 40.3%
    CBTar Pursuit(with switch) VS Cress : 67.6% - 79.6%
    If your Cresselia is dead, you're left wide open for a DDance Oak sweep. Also, CBTar always does more damage than you can heal with Moonlight with his Pursuit, because Moonlight is nerfed in Sandstorm. In other words, a CBTar paired up with a DDance Oak will do major damage to you, if not beating you entirely. CBStaraptor seems like it could do major damage as well, 2HKOing even Cresselia after SR damage. CBStaraptor paired up with Magnezone will also do major damage to you. Also, Magnezone in general punctures a hole in your precious Skarmory, rendering you incapable of setting up Spikes, and hurts like hell against your team.

    EDIT : If Revenankh is eliminated, then Rapid Spin Colossoil becomes a threat to your team.
  5. Rising_Dusk

    Rising_Dusk
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Battle Server Admin Alumnusis a Programmer Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2009
    Messages:
    4,806
    Staraptor is not running Choice Band in CAP, so no big deal there. I've been running a CBTar on some teams lately and have found that it guts this team pretty hard with Spikes support. Stone Edge OHKOes his Pyroak, 2HKOes Skarmory, Crunch 2HKOes Cress through Reflect with Sandstorm damage (and it can't heal with Moonlight), and Kitsunoh is even 2HKOed by Stone Edge (or OHKOed by Earthquake). It's a pretty devastating Pokemon to the core of this team, and has been clutch in my beating it the past few times I've run into it. The scariest thing is that Tyranitar gets a totally free switch-in against Cresselia, and since you really can't weather its assault well, you can't allow that.

    Spikes support in general is very dangerous against this team because you cannot spin them away. Once Rev goes down, your check for tons of threats is broken and you are open to being swept by things like LOStratagem, who OHKOes the entire rest of your team.
  6. ssbbm

    ssbbm

    Joined:
    May 14, 2010
    Messages:
    1,020
    I've been running BulkyGyara on my team just to counter your team... It can usually kill up to three of your pokemon with waterfall, assuming no flinching. If it flinches, well, good game there. So yeah, BulkyGyara can usually kill your team, or weaken the core enough for a DDOak sweep.
  7. Plus

    Plus walk into da club like whaddup i gotta big cock
    is a Tutoris an official Team Rateris a Forum Moderatoris a Pokemon Researcheris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris an Artist Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnus
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2008
    Messages:
    1,434
    Well if x is open then y is obviously going to be a threat, that's some terrible logic unless it's something like a suicide lead that is meant to die early. No matter what kind of team you have you're obviously going to be weak to some pokemon if the pokemon that is meant to check / counter it is gone, even teams with 6 pokemon have trouble responding to every damned threat in the metagame, and when you're looking at something like CAP, it's near impossible to do so.

    I'm probably not as sharp as I used to be with CAP, but Fidgit can come in on quite a bit of your team and set up Spikes or Toxic Spikes, you really should watch out for those nasty entry hazards, especially when you run Oak. Having checks to Fidgit doesn't mean much when it can encore you and get free turns easy. Even though people run Krilowatt nowadays I'm sure Fidgit isn't nonexistent, also I'm still a bit skeptical on how well Cresselia does against Pyroak -- do you just switch in on a DD and reflect? I'd reckon you still take a good chunk of damage, also with Pyroak's bulk and Cresselia's weak offenses, Pyroak's probably taking like 30% at most. So my question is this, how do you deal with bulky dd oak? I'm just curious.

    NP Kiss I would be inclined to agree rips your team in half, you have Cresselia with Ice Beams and Infernape who dies quickly, and that's about it. NP Kiss can roost it off and deal trucktons of damage to your team. A quick fix is running Toxic over Ice Beam on Togekiss if you want to try that, i'm not sure if you need the instant kill on Salamence all the time, and it still beats Colossoil with Reflect up provided they dont use crunch. Otherwise, if you have a Togekiss come in on Revenankh you may be tempted to just hammer it if you can last an air slash lol.

    Good job on reaching 1900, perhaps someday I'll return to the CAP ladder and try for a higher cre haha.
  8. uvwxyz9

    uvwxyz9

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2009
    Messages:
    34
    ...i hate you... haha, but really this team is awesome great job. :)
  9. polelover44

    polelover44

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2008
    Messages:
    1,406
    Hey EM. I rated this on Marriland when you posted it a while ago, so I guess I ought to give it a rate here too, eh?

    Anyway this is basically just C&P'd from your Marriland thread so yeah.
  10. Elevator Music

    Elevator Music
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Site Staff Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnus
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2008
    Messages:
    7,742
    It leaves me open to Pyroak though which is what worried me the most. I was thinking Cyclohm is perhaps a slightly better replacement, but it still leaves me open against Gyarados and Salamence...

    Although Plus's suggestion of Toxic seems appealing...

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)