1. Welcome to Smogon! Check out the Smogon Starters Hangout for everything you need to know about starting out in the community. Don't forget to introduce yourself in the Introduction and Hangout Thread, too!
  2. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.

The Last Song (peaked #6)

Discussion in 'BW Other Teams' started by puregenius, Apr 16, 2012.

  1. puregenius

    puregenius

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2011
    Messages:
    198
    I'll be gone for a term so what the hell.

    This team is pretty good and it peaked it at 6th on the PO ladder before i crashed to 200 or something :\

    Show Hide
    [​IMG]


    At a glance

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    In depth

    [​IMG]
    Clarent (Dialga) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 252 HP / 56 SAtk / 200 SDef
    Quiet Nature (+SAtk, -Spd)
    - Draco Meteor
    - Stealth Rock
    - Dragon Tail
    - Fire Blast

    Ah Dialga, my lead for almost every team. He just does his job so well it's insane. That awesome bulk and typing of his lets him take hits from everything (except invested groudon) and set up rocks and deal damage. He's especially useful for his ability to phase. Fire blast is for Skarmory, Ferrothorn and Forretress. The ev's are pretty standard, enough bulk to survive 2 scarf water spouts from Kyogre. Dialga is named so because just as Clarent, the sword in the stone, symoblises respect and power, so does Dialga.

    Genius tips:

    Going against Groudon is really ballsy, as SR is vital to this team's success.

    Possible changes:

    None atm.

    [​IMG]
    Charon (Terrakion) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Stone Edge
    - Earthquake
    - Close Combat
    - X-Scissor

    Terrakion is pretty cool. He has nice speed, solid STABS and a solid atk stat. He's a great Ek-Arceus counter, doing around 83% to max bulk Ek-Arceus. Terrakion serves as the revenger of this team and he does a good job. Moves are self-explanatory so I won't bore you. Terrakion is named Charon, the ferryman of the underworld, as he picks off weakened opponents and sends them to 'the underworld'.

    Genius tips:

    I'm a huge hypocrite for saying this, but don't throw this guy at anything. Also, always stone edge when the opponent has a Giratina-o. It 2hko's some sets after rocks.

    Possible changes:

    Anything over X-Scissor/ Earthquake, possibly Sacred Sword for Bulk Up Dialga.

    [​IMG]
    Shiva (Rayquaza) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Air Lock
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Swords Dance
    - ExtremeSpeed
    - Dragon Claw
    - Overheat

    I have 3 reasons for using Rayquaza over Ek-Arceus:
    1) I don't have to choose between Skarmory, Dialga and ghosts
    2) Sark me orf Giratina
    3) I'm already using Grasseus
    The damage output is similar to non-LO Ek-Arceus, which i use to use. The moves are there for maximum coverage. Dragon Claw is for STAB and ohko's Giratina/-o, Overheat for Skarmory, Forretress and Ferrothorn, and Extreme Speed because he's awesome. Shiva because I felt like it
    :p.

    Genius tips:

    Don't attempt to sweep before SR is on the field. Set up on Kyogre (Water Spout), weakened by a meteor from Dialga.

    Possible changes:

    Jolly over Adamant.

    [​IMG]
    Ouroboros (Giratina-O) @ Griseous Orb
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 Atk / 248 SAtk / 8 Spd
    Lonely Nature (+Atk, -Def)
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Draco Meteor
    - Shadow Sneak
    - Dragon Tail

    There's something really genius about this set. It easily sets up on Chansey, Blissey, Power Whip-Ferrothorn and Forretress. Giratina-O serves as the ground immunity in this team. Sub and CM is the crux of this set, while Aura Sphere and Dragon Pulse serve as coverage. Ouroboros, the symbol of immortality, fits Giratina-O well.

    Genius tips:

    Switching in recklessly will get you nowhere against Ferrothorn and Chansey, make sure you come in safely after Toxic/Leech Seed has already been used or predict another move, ie wish bell (this comes with experience).

    Possible Changes:

    Shadow Ball over Dragon Pulse to hit Mewtwo and Lugia harder.

    [​IMG]
    Pan (Arceus-Grass) @ Meadow Plate
    Trait: Multitype
    EVs: 252 HP / 144 SDef / 112 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Recover
    - Judgment
    - Ice Beam
    - Thunder Wave

    Grasseus is the obligatory Kyogre counter. He also does a great job on spreading paralysis, so Groudon doesn't have to Rock Polish to sweep. Ice Beam for all the dragons in the tier and Judgment for STAB and to hit Groudon and Kyogre for SE damage. I use Judgment over Grass Knot to hit things like Gastro and Manaphy. Recover is vital for the longevity of Grasseus. Grasseus is named after Pan, the god of the wild.

    Genius tips:

    After you come in on a Water Spout, always always always use recover first. Grasseus is 3hko'ed by max power water spout, so if you don't heal and he switches out, Grasseus can no longer switch in the next time Kyogre comes in.

    Possible Changes:

    Judgment over Grass Knot to hit Manaphy and other lighter pokemon. Stealth Rocks over Thunder Wave just in case Dialga dies before that happens (which is quite common).

    [​IMG]
    Ares (Groudon) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Drought
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Rock Polish
    - Fire Punch
    - Earthquake
    - Dragon Claw

    Maybe it's just me, but almost every team I play is weak to RP Groudon, once their Giratina-O is gone. Anyway, this guy is beastly. He can 2hko almost the entire metagame, except for the really bulky pokemon like Giratina (which almost no one runs) and Lugia. Groudon loves sand teams. He can force switches for almost every member on most sand teams and set up RP. His great natural bulk let's him survive a hit from +2 Ek-Arceus should he be needed. The ev's are for maximum damage damage, while still allowing him to sweep without Rock Polish. He is named after Ares, the god of war.

    Genius tips:

    If you see Giratina-O in team preview, just use Dragon Claw, as you can 2hko him, which helps you avoid a burn.

    Possible Changes:

    Stone Edge for Ho-oh and Lugia.

    Importable:

    Show Hide
    Clarent (Dialga) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 252 HP / 56 SAtk / 200 SDef
    Quiet Nature (+SAtk, -Spd)
    - Draco Meteor
    - Stealth Rock
    - Dragon Tail
    - Fire Blast

    Charon (Terrakion) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Stone Edge
    - Earthquake
    - Close Combat
    - X-Scissor

    Shiva (Rayquaza) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Air Lock
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Swords Dance
    - ExtremeSpeed
    - Dragon Claw
    - Overheat

    Ouroboros (Giratina-O) @ Griseous Orb
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 Atk / 248 SAtk / 8 Spd
    Lonely Nature (+Atk, -Def)
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Draco Meteor
    - Shadow Sneak
    - Dragon Tail

    Pan (Arceus-Grass) @ Meadow Plate
    Trait: Multitype
    EVs: 252 HP / 144 SDef / 112 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Recover
    - Judgment
    - Ice Beam
    - Thunder Wave

    Ares (Groudon) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Drought
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Rock Polish
    - Fire Punch
    - Earthquake
    - Dragon Claw


    Any comments are appreciated.
  2. puregenius

    puregenius

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2011
    Messages:
    198
    Red = huge threat
    Orange = medium threat

    Mewtwo: A HUGE PAIN MID GAME. I normally have to wittle him down with whatever i deem to be least necessary in the game. Early game ones are killed easily and late game ones usually die to groudon/rayquaza which have set up.

    Lugia: Can be quite annoying. How do i handle him? lol i just do. Usually it's because a) they are unskilled or b) they must sac ho-oh to stop rayquaza/groudon.

    Ho-Oh: Not much of a problem if i can get rocks up. He does not enjoy taking hits from rayquaza/groudon.

    Latias: Groudon can kill it with a claw, dialga phases and does very nice damage with dtail.

    Latios: Same as latias.

    Kyogre: Grasseus.

    Groudon: Destroyed by grasseus. Lead sets are usually dealt (and set up on) with gira o. That being said he most commonly just dies to my groudon in eq wars.

    Rayquaza: Ohko'ed by +2 ray and groudon. Terrakion can revenge. Mostly he's just killed by grasseus with ice beam.

    Deoxys-A: Another pain. He can pretty much 2hko my entire team. I usually face leads which i dtail out after taking about 80% from superpower. If the the thing that comes out is a wall, then great! I can use SR. If not im playing a game without hazards :\. The next time they come in is usually as death fodder.

    Dialga: Same as ray

    Palkia: Same as dia.

    Giratina: Killed by dia or ray and set up on by gira o for dtail variants.

    Giratina-O: Dialga, groudon (with prediction) and ray.

    Manaphy: Grasseus.

    Darkrai: A pain. I basically just play 1 man down (usually dia).

    Shaymin-S: Another pain. Ray does a good job revenging it and grasseus has to hope for no flinch to win.

    Arceus: Ek arceus is killed with terrakion and groudon can take a hit. Cm arceus have a hard time setting up on my team as it has a lot of offensive presence.

    Reshiram: Hate this guy. I have no reliable way to take a hit and sun will always be up. I usually try to set up ray or groudon early.

    Zekrom: Groudon can take non-mixed sets and force it out while setting up rp.

    Ferrothorn: Dialga Fire Blasts, Giratina-O can set up sub as they always leech seed :3. Gyro ball variants means i cant set up, but i have a field day if they have power whip. I 3hko with aura sphere and they usually dont have enough balls to leech seed again after they find i have sub.

    Forretress: Set up fodder for everything which can set up lol. I normally send in ray and starting swords dancing (resulting in many game overs).

    Espeon: This team doesnt really rely on status or hazards for anything so he doesnt really do much.

    Garchomp: Grasseus

    Chansey: I love this guy. He can do absolutely nothing to gira o with a sub, while i proceed to set up.

    Blissey: See Chansey.

    Terrakion: Groudon and gira o.
  3. spuds4ever

    spuds4ever

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2011
    Messages:
    705
    Hey buddy, I play with a surprisingly similar team, and from my short experiences, I would make a few small changes. I would use (well, I do use) a lum berry over a life orb on rayquaza this lets him beat ghost-arceus (you could even put in outrage if you really wanted to kill stuff reliably), one of his largest pains and clear a path for Groudon. I would also take jolly so ray can safely tango with excadrill.

    I would say stone edge over fire punch or dragon claw on groudon as lugia is more common than skarm in my experience and skarm can't really do much to you anyway and specially defensive ferrothorn (I believe the more common variant?) takes a lot from earthquake already.
  4. puregenius

    puregenius

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2011
    Messages:
    198
    Thanks for the rate

    Dragon claw is a must to 2hko Gira o
    Fire punch is important for the ohko on ferro and forre
    I particularly do not want to replace fire punch as I have seen skarm usage increase

    Jolly isnt needed as the main move of the set is espeed
    Dclaw is only used for dia and Gira/o both of which rarely run max speed
    Exca is mostly seen using a bulky set but it on ss teams it mostly runs adamant
    I'll consider lum

    Threatlist will be up soon

    EDIT

    threatlist is up

    EDIT2
    Will not be using lum on ray as lo makes his espeed comparable with non-atk boosting item arceus (ohko after rocks for a lot of things)
  5. puregenius

    puregenius

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2011
    Messages:
    198
    Bump (before it dies :/)
  6. sammao

    sammao

    Joined:
    May 27, 2009
    Messages:
    225
    Overall good team. However, why running 248 spd on Groudon? You should just max it out so it can speed tie with other max speed neutral nature 90s, or running 176 speed to outspeed scarf Terrakion.
  7. Far East Movements

    Far East Movements

    Joined:
    May 3, 2012
    Messages:
    4
    i can see another weakness to this team is... a SmashPass team, Deoxys-S may SR your team first and you cant do nothing except Killing it little by little. and you have no spinner attach doubles your SmashPass missery. Grass Arceus can stall +2 dialgas but not in the sun that u set up in Groudon, its a big adventage to SmashPass teams. do maybe you may add something to phaze them off like Bulk Giraatina or find some unique sets :)
  8. puregenius

    puregenius

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2011
    Messages:
    198
    @sammao yeh that's weird thought it was 252 speed

    @far nup I don't have trouble with deoxys s, he gets a max of 2 layers, normally only one because they magic coat/taunt first turn

    smash pass also isn't as bad as u say it is
    grasseus can take a hit as u mentioned
    normally wat I try to do is have gira o or ray on smeargle
    ray can force an early spore with e speed so whatever comes in has to take an eq from groudon at -1
    gira o can sub on the first turn as they smell smash
    at this point they will have to take 2 hits at a minimum of -1

    and da fark?
    bulky gira can in no way take +2 dialga
  9. Silver Owns

    Silver Owns

    Joined:
    May 2, 2012
    Messages:
    22
    As you already noted mewtwo can be a major pain to this team all it needs are ice beam and aura sphere and this team gets hit badly
  10. Ithilanor

    Ithilanor

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2010
    Messages:
    240
    I'm not sure about using a SubCM set for your Giratina-O; you've already got 2 other setup sweepers, and I don't think that particular set adds much to your team. I'd switch to something like the normal Mixed Attacker set with Shadow Sneak, which would help out with your weakness to Mewtwo.
  11. puregenius

    puregenius

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2011
    Messages:
    198
    That is a very interesting thought feel free to test that (i won't be playing much) and plz tell me the results

    EDIT

    have had time to test and mixed gira has worked much better
  12. CottonPuff

    CottonPuff

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2011
    Messages:
    53
    Grass knot > Judgment. It deals more damage to Groudon and Kyogre, as well as Palkia, Other Arceus, etc. It leaves you weaker to Manaphy, but this is sun team, so you shouldnt have problems with it anyway.
  13. puregenius

    puregenius

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2011
    Messages:
    198
    I'd rather hit manaphy, gastro, kabutops etc harder
  14. barry4ever

    barry4ever
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2009
    Messages:
    877
    Ok this team looks decent but theres a couple of ways it could be better. First, i suggest you replace Grass Arceus for a Water Arceus. Really, Grass Arceus has no place on a sun team, Fire-type attacks will destroy it. A decent Water Arceus set could be:

    Arceus @ Splash PLate
    Trait: Multitype
    EVs: 252 Hp / 240 SpD / 16 Spe
    Calm (+SpD, -Atk)
    - Recover
    - Grass Knot
    - Thunder Wave / Judgment
    - Roar

    Yes you might say that Water Arceus cannot take Thunders from Ogre but its easy to switch to Groudon and get a free Rock Polish as Kyogre uses Thunder. It has overall better synergy with your team anyway compared to Grass Arceus and gives a secondary buff to Ho-Oh (sorta) who atm wrecks half your team behind a sub.

    Secondly, get rid of Overheat on SD Rayquaza and replace it with V-Create. Pointless using Overheat really when V-Create is out really. Lastly, I'd suggest you replace Draco Meteor on Dialga with Dragon Pulse. It eases out prediction and helps Dialga be more useful over the course of a battle. Good luck.
  15. Mirajules

    Mirajules

    Joined:
    May 25, 2012
    Messages:
    2
    Specializing in Web Design, Online Marketing, and Search Engine Optimization, we are the local affordable solution.Call us Today 718-290-3746 begin_of_the_skype_highlighting 718-290-3746 end_of_the_skype_highlighting
    http://tseoinqueens.com/
  16. Mirajules

    Mirajules

    Joined:
    May 25, 2012
    Messages:
    2
    SEO In Queens

    Specializing in Web Design, Online Marketing, and Search Engine Optimization, we are the local affordable solution.Call us Toda
    http://tseoinqueens.com/
  17. calze6

    calze6

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2009
    Messages:
    552
    Your team doesn't seem to like random draco meteors much. The lack of dragon resist does somewhat hurt your team. And specs palkia can just have a joy ride all over. Ferrothorn over grasseus may be a nice option if u want to tank some dragon hits and still steamroll kyogre. You can then run extremekiller arceus if u want. Going mixed tina or adding shadow ball can deal with mewtwo, but again, up to u. Btw why on earth do u need to hit gastro, kabutops harder? They are ohkoed anyway because they r double weak.
  18. puregenius

    puregenius

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2011
    Messages:
    198
    those are all interesting ideas barry
    i probably will keep meteor though because its great for baiting set up sweepers which i can dtail

    ur ideas are also interesting calze

    will test everything mentioned, mostly waterceus though

    forgot to change gira o to mixed lol
    have fixed

    mostly judgment is for manaphy (i havent done calcs for gastro, but id assume he wouldnt be ohkoed)

    EDIT

    ha only been testing for like 15 mins
    the synergy of waterceus is much better
    but i do miss the perks of grasseus
  19. alexwolf

    alexwolf Fear the D
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2009
    Messages:
    7,120
    Seconding Barry4ever, definitely put V-Create on Ray, it is an Outrage that doesn't lock you, what's not to love?
  20. LilOuOn

    LilOuOn

    Joined:
    May 25, 2012
    Messages:
    651
    Maybe using a Deoxys-S

    Contagion (Deoxys-S) @ Light Clay
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 252 HP / 156 Def / 100 SDef
    Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
    - Reflect
    - Light Screen
    - Stealth Rock
    - Spikes

    and CM on Arceus so u can use spikes, stealth rocks, and light screen and reflect to allow Arceus spam calm minds.

    Dragon tail Giratina makes a nice combination with Deoxys -S
  21. puregenius

    puregenius

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2011
    Messages:
    198
    i dislike deo s, so i wont be using him

    now that i look at it, this team is so incredibly flawed i have no idea how i even got to 6th lol

    probably gonna scrap the whole team

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)