The Level 1 Metagame

[Arcticblast]

[PIMG]488[/PIMG][PIMG]304[/PIMG]The Level 1 Metagame[PIMG]647[/PIMG][PIMG]495[/PIMG]
Credit to iliketrains11 for the idea​

The Level 1 Metagame, as you might have guessed, is played at level 1. All Pokemon's stats are very similar and movepools can be truncated on some of the best Pokemon, EVs are completely screwed up, and natures no longer make a difference on any Pokemon except Shuckle. In addition to the level requirement, all Pokemon must be obtainable at level 1 in this metagame. Surprisingly, thanks to wacky evolution methods and events, this includes such behemoths as Palkia, Heracross, Regigigas, and Porygon2, and all of these fully evolved Pokemon are perfectly legal! Fear not, however - because of the tiny differences in stats, Pokemon such as Shieldon and Tangela have risen to the challenge of fending off these beasts. In addition, Snover and Hippopotas are legal. Let's look at a few example Pokemon, shall we?

[PIMG]647[/PIMG]
Accelgor
Bug
80/70/40/100/60/145
Accelgor might look bad at first glance, but factoring in the low stats of all Pokemon, Accelgor makes for one of the most interesting Scarfers around. It Speed ties Exeggutor in the sun and any +1 Speed Pokemon, can hit from both sides of the spectrum, and can even use Yawn or Knock Off.

[PIMG]495[/PIMG]
Manaphy
Water
100/100/100/100/100/100
Manaphy is actually unaffected by EVs at level 1, but it gets Tail Glow at level 1, making it an incredibly fearsome sweeper.

Banlist:
- Drought
- Sonicboom
- Dragon Rage
- Berry Juice

List of eligible Pokemon

* - fully evolved
+ - level-up illegalities
----RBY----
Bulbasaur
Charmander
Squirtle
Caterpie
Weedle
Pidgey
Rattata
Spearow
Ekans
Pichu
Sandshrew
Nidoran-F
Nidoran-M+
Cleffa
Vulpix
Ninetales*
Igglybuff
Zubat
Paras
Venonat
Diglett
Meowth
Psyduck
Mankey
Growlithe
Arcanine*
Poliwag
Abra
Machop
Bellsprout
Tentacool
Geodude
Ponyta
Slowpoke
Slowking*+
Magnemite+
Farfetch'd*
Doduo
Seel
Grimer
Shellder
Cloyster*+
Gastly
Onix
Steelix+
Drowzee
Krabby
Voltorb+
Electrode*+
Exeggcute
Exeggutor*+
Cubone
Tyrogue
Lickitung
Koffing
Rhyhorn
Happiny
Chansey
Tangela
Kangaskhan*
Horsea
Goldeen
Staryu+
Starmie*+
Mime Jr.
Mr. Mime*
Scyther
Scizor*+
Smoochum
Elekid
Magby
Pinsir*
Tauros*+
Magikarp
Gyarados*+
Lapras*
Ditto*
Eevee
Vaporeon*+
Jolteon*+
Flareon*+
Porygon+
Porygon2+
Porygon-Z*+
Omanyte
Kabuto
Aerodactyl*
Munchlax
Snorlax*
Dratini
----GSC----
Chikorita
Cyndaquil
Totodile
Sentret
Hoothoot
Ledyba
Spinarak
Chinchou
Togepi
Natu
Mareep
Azurill
Marill
Bonsly
Sudowoodo*
Hoppip
Aipom
Sunkern
Sunflora*+
Yanma
Wooper
Murkrow
Honchkrow*+
Misdreavus
Mismagius*+
Unown*
Wynaut
Wobbuffet*
Girafarig*
Pineco
Dunsparce*
Gligar
Snubbull
Qwilfish*
Shuckle*
Heracross*
Sneasel
Teddiursa
Slugma
Swinub
Corsola*
Remoraid
Delibird*
Mantyke
Mantine*
Skarmory*
Houndour
Phanpy
Stantler*
Smeargle*
Miltank*
Larvitar
----ADV----
Treecko
Torchic
Mudkip
Poochyena
Zigzagoon
Wurmple
Lotad
Seedot
Taillow
Wingull
Ralts
Surskit
Shroomish
Slakoth
Nincada
Whismur
Makuhita
Nosepass
Skitty
Delcatty*
Sableye*
Mawile*
Aron
Meditite
Electrike
Plusle*
Minun*
Volbeat*+
Illumise*+
Budew
Roselia
Roserade*
Gulpin
Carvanha
Wailmer
Numel
Torkoal*
Spoink
Spinda*
Trapinch
Cacnea
Swablu
Zangoose*
Seviper*
Lunatone*+
Solrock*+
Barboach
Corphish
Baltoy+
Lileep
Anorith
Feebas
Castform
Kecleon*
Shuppet
Duskull
Chingling
Chimecho*
Absol*
Snorunt
Froslass*+
Spheal
Clamperl
Gorebyss*+
Huntail*+
Relicanth*
Luvdisc*
Bagon
Beldum
----DPP----
Turtwig
Chimchar
Piplup
Starly
Bidoof
Kricketot
Shinx
Cranidos
Shieldon
Burmy
Combee
Pachirisu
Buizel
Cherubi
Shellos
Drifloon
Buneary
Glameow
Stunky
Bronzor+
Chatot*
Spiritomb*
Gible
Riolu
Hippopotas
Skorupi
Croagunk
Carnivine*
Finneon
Snover
Rotom*+
Dialga*+
Palkia*+
Regigigas*+
Giratina*+
Phione*+
Manaphy*+
----BW2----
Snivy
Tepig
Oshawott
Patrat
Lillipup
Purrloin
Pansage
Simisage*
Pansear
Simisear*
Panpour
Simipour*
Munna
Musharna*
Pidove
Blitzle
Roggenrola
Woobat
Drilbur
Audino*
Timburr
Tympole*
Throh*+
Sawk*+
Sewaddle
Venipede
Cottonee
Whimsicott*+
Petilil
Lilligant*+
Basculin*
Sandile
Darumaka
Maractus*
Dwebble
Scraggy
Sigilyph*
Yamask
Tirtouga
Archen
Trubbish
Minccino
Cinccino*
Gothita
Solosis
Ducklett
Vanillite
Deerling
Emolga*
Karrablast
Escavalier*+
Foongus
Frillish
Alomomola*
Joltik
Ferroseed
Klink+
Tynamo
Elgyem
Litwick
Axew
Cubchoo
Cryogonal*+
Shelmet
Accelgor*+
Stunfisk*
Mienfoo
Druddigon*
Golett+
Pawniard
Bouffalant
Rufflet+
Vullaby
Heatmor*
Durant*
Deino
Larvesta

How to EV your Pokemon

Under construction

Good sets

[pimg]503[/pimg]
Rotom-W @ Leftovers
Trait: Levitate
Level: 1
EVs: 220 Def / 236 SAtk
Hardy Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Volt Switch
- Will-O-Wisp
- Pain Split

Scizor @ Choice Band
Trait: Technician
Level: 1
EVs: 120 HP / 36 Atk / 196 SDef / 156 Spd
Hardy Nature
- U-turn
- Bullet Punch
- Superpower
- Quick Attack

[PIMG]177[/PIMG]
Natu @ Eviolite
Trait: Magic Bounce
Level: 1
EVs: 116 SAtk / 116 Spd
Docile Nature
- Thunder Wave
- U-turn
- Roost
- Psychic

 

[doughboy]

It is going to be pretty annoying trying to find what pokes have what moves :(

I would just like to note that OU's best combo returns to the lvl 1 metagame: ScizorWash (yes all the moves checked out for legality)

Rotom-W @ Leftovers
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 220 Def / 236 SAtk
Hardy Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Volt Switch
- Will-O-Wisp
- Pain Split

Scizor (M) @ Choice Band
Trait: Technician
EVs: 120 HP / 36 Atk / 196 SDef / 156 Spd
Hardy Nature
- U-turn
- Bullet Punch
- Superpower
- Quick Attack

Now you might be thinking "Doughboy, wtf are you doing with those natures and EV spreads?" Well, upon experimenting I have found that it seems natures don't seem to "work", that is they do not boost a Pokemon stats anymore instead it only lowers one of them. This means that most of the time, you are better running one of the 5 neutral natures, such as Hardy, to get the highest stats. You also have to check to see if you can use EV's you save through minimum investment to add up enough to effect different stats. In the case of Rotom-W, none of them worked. In Scizor's case, however, it made a huge difference. With the current EV spread Scizor has 13 HP / 8 Atk / 7 SpD / 7 SpA OR 7 Spe. With just a plain 252 atk / 252 HP AND an Adamant Nature, you still only get 13 HP / 8 Atk. In other words, you missed out on the extra Special Defense and Speed.
_______________________________________________________

Right now we (and when I mean mean we, I mean mostly I) have a few unresolved questions:

1. Are there circumstances where natures DO raise stats? So far I have not found any

A. Only the might Shuckle can raise its stats, since it is the only Pokemon to have a non-HP stat above 200, in its case Shucke has 230 Defense and Special Defense. The stat raise is only by 1 point.

2. How do offensive stats vs defensive stats compare? Does the metagame become bulkier or more offensive with the difference between maximum vs minimum stats being much less (the lowest being 4 and the highest being 8!!!!)? Or does it stay the same, i.e. is it all relative The 4 comes from the overall lowest a Pokemon stats can be outside of shedninja's 1 HP. Meanwhile the high, 8, comes from Palkia's / Dialga's special attack (the high base stat in the entire tier)(not counting HP since it conveys to a Pokemon slightly differently. 100 base HP = 13 HP stat).

A. So while testing with Articblast I came to the conclusion that base stats do not really matter in the level 1 metagame. The range for stats is so small (minimum of 4, usual maximum of 8) that base stats don't really matter in differentiating Pokemon. Thus the most important thing in the level 1 metagame is a wide movepool, a good ability, and a fairly good typing (opposite of BH). That is why Smeargle, the legendaries, and certain evolutions will be top dogs in this metagame,

3. Since Pokemon's attacking stats "only" differ by small amount, what kind of attack can they run? For example, Scizor's Attack is 8, but its SpA could also be 7. The ratio of its max SpA vs max Atk is hugely different than it is at level 100. For example, (7/8) = SpA is 87% as powerful as Atk, (decided not to use boosting nature) but at level 100 209/359 = SpA is only 58% as powerful as Attack!!!

A. This was addressed above a little bit but the metagame is slightly more inclined to offense now because most Pokemon can actually utilize both attacking stats now. To put it into perspective, Scizor now can actually use Vacuum Wave as a priority move. Yeah. Generally if you can get a Poke to both 8 and 7 on their attacking stats, you got a mixed attacker on your hands. Movepool is what matters, which is what makes Dialga, Palkia, and Arcanine so fearsome to face.



All good questions I would love answers to. Got Them!

 

[Bent1ey]

Do you intend to consider the egg glitch that can fetch you level 1 evolved pokemon that wou cannot normally get in Emerald?

 

[Arcticblast]

Pokemon can't be level 1 in Emerald.

Anyway, after extensive testing with ThePillsburyDoughBoy, I have decided that Drought is ridiculously broken and needs to be banned. Specs Ninetales 2HKOs even the bulkiest walls (sans immune ones), Specs Vulpix comes pretty damn close, and Lilligant is easily capable of 6-0ing teams with a Growth set.

 

[doughboy]

Do you intend to consider the egg glitch that can fetch you level 1 evolved pokemon that wou cannot normally get in Emerald?

This will be a metagame that will involve no glitching, just natural 1 vs 1 pokemon.

 

[canno]

Things to note:

• The highest stat for the offenses that is possible is 8 (assuming no EVs). The minimum attack needed to reach this is a base attack of 135. The same rules apply to Special Attack, so I'm going to assume it applies to all stats outside of HP. (I think a table of stats benchmarks would be nice). Meanwhile, the lowest is 5 (this applies to defenses as well). The highest for defensive stats is 9, however, only Shuckle can reach this to my knowledge.
  
• As probably expected, the closer a stat is to reaching the next benchmark (i.e. base 134 being incredibly close to 135) requires less EVs to reach this. (i.e. Breloom needs 36 EVs to have an attack stat of 8, while Dragonite only needs 4).
  
• Most NFE / low stat pokemon end up with an average stat total of 6/6/6/6/6/6 and 12 HP (uninvested). Meanwhile, FE pokemon usually follow the same trend, except they have 2-3 stats that reach 7 and sometimes one that reaches 8. HP stats also vary for the FE pokemon, but they are usually between the 12-14 range. Of course, there are exceptions to this rule.
  
• Pillsburry is right, all natures do is lower stats as far as I can see. For this reason, the neutral natures are the best for all.
  
• Speed ties, speed ties everywhere.

Anyways, onto pokemon.

Escavalier (M) @ Life Orb / Choice Band
Trait: Swarm
Level: 1
EVs: 116 HP / 240 Def / 116 Spd
Serious Nature
- Megahorn
- Iron Head
- Swords Dance / Return
- Pursuit

Before I continue, I want to say that investing in attack does nothing, so there is no point. Escav has great attack and good bulk (13/8/7), not to mention decent speed (6). You can either SD and boost, or go hit-and-run with a CB set. Movepool is still shallow, so yeah. There really isn't much else to do here to be honest, other than I guess move the defense EVs to spdef. The main thing Escav has over Scizor is Megahorn, which is much stronger than Bug Bite and U-Turn.

Ferroseed @ Eviolite
Trait: Iron Barbs
Level: 1
EVs: 84 SAtk / 200 Spd
Serious Nature
- Giga Drain
- Hidden Power [Ground]
- Iron Head / Spikes
- Stealth Rock

Ferroseed is pretty neat. Special Attack and Speed are the only stats affected by EVs. It's SpAtk and Attack are the same after the EVs, and since it doesn't get Power Whip, Giga Drain is the main STAB of choice. HP Ground hits Fire-types SE, although you have no business staying in on them. It also hits Steels SE, and has pretty good coverage. Alternatively, Iron Head is an option for another STAB move. It is chosen over Flash Cannon for mixed attacking. Iron Head is your secondary STAB move. However, if you feel that you don't need it, Spikes can be used instead. Stealth Rock, while not the best move in the game this time, is still a decent choice.

Also, I slightly disagree with DoughBoy. While it is true that pokemon can now go mixed offensive, they can also go mixed defenses. There is also the fact that Eviolite is a thing, boosting the already good defenses of most pokemon to even better levels.

Also, stats are important - as long as you are a Fully Evolved pokemon. This is because, again, they cannot boost their defenses like NFE's can. Luckily, they have better stats by nature, making some of them much better for offense. Also, just like in LC, I don't think Leftovers are a good idea in this meta. I'd use ChestoResto over Lefties and Pain Split on that Rotom-W set.

 

[qtrx]

@The Reptile: Rapin Spin on Staryu is only obtainable through the use of the Pomeg Glitch, since it's genderless and can't have egg moves. I expect said glitch to be allowed (like in LC) though.

Lots of mons suddenly become TR viable since they only need to run a -Spd nature to out-slow a majority of the metagame.

Leftovers seems good on paper, since it heals 1/12 - 1/14 of your mon's HP now as opposed to 1/16 (which is different from the situation in LC), and LO is great too, while hazards (esp. Spikes) are not as good as they are in OU, both due to similar reasons.

EDIT: Flame Orb Guts is great too, while Leech Seed is severely weakened. So many percentage-based mechanics are screwed lol. And Smeargle can now actually make use of its enormous movepool to run some attacking sets. Marill and Meditite definitely have potential too. Chansey returns as the bulkiest of all mons (probably even without Evio this time) as with a 236 Def / 236 Spd spread she boasts beastly 16/5/6/6/8/6 stats.

@Arcticblast: You'll surely want to ban SonicBoom, Dragon Rage, Oran Berry, Berry Juice, etc. right?

 

[BlankZero]

I can see Oran Berry sticking around. Berry Juice gives 20 back, which only a focus sash Blissey would really need, but whatever.

And ya, sonic boom and dragon rage are OHKOs on everything.

 

[bobbyvaporeon]

I can see Oran Berry sticking around. Berry Juice gives 20 back, which only a focus sash Blissey would really need, but whatever.

And ya, sonic boom and dragon rage are OHKOs on everything.

I suspect these will be banned, just like LC

 

[BlankZero]

I suspect these will be banned, just like LC

Is Oran Berry banned though?

 

[Arcticblast]

@The Reptile: Rapin Spin on Staryu is only obtainable through the use of the Pomeg Glitch, since it's genderless and can't have egg moves. I expect said glitch to be allowed (like in LC) though.

The Pomeg Glitch yields Pokemon at level 5 and is thus irrelevant to this metagame.

@Arcticblast: You'll surely want to ban SonicBoom, Dragon Rage, Oran Berry, Berry Juice, etc. right?

Thanks for reminding me. I'll leave Oran Berry unbanned for further testing, but the other things are out.

 

[canno]

@The Reptile: Rapin Spin on Staryu is only obtainable through the use of the Pomeg Glitch, since it's genderless and can't have egg moves. I expect said glitch to be allowed (like in LC) though.

Lots of mons suddenly become TR viable since they only need to run a -Spd nature to out-slow a majority of the metagame.

Leftovers seems good on paper, since it heals 1/12 - 1/14 of your mon's HP now as opposed to 1/16 (which is different from the situation in LC), and LO is great too, while hazards (esp. Spikes) are not as good as they are in OU, both due to similar reasons.

EDIT: Flame Orb Guts is great too, while Leech Seed is severely weakened. So many percentage-based mechanics are screwed lol. And Smeargle can now actually make use of its enormous movepool to run some attacking sets. Marill and Meditite definitely have potential too. Chansey returns as the bulkiest of all mons (probably even without Evio this time) as with a 236 Def / 236 Spd spread she boasts beastly 16/5/6/6/8/6 stats.

Whoops, overlooked the fact that Staryu was genderless. Well, that sucks. :( That would also mean Recover is out of the question as well, right?

I'd still imagine that Leftovers aren't that great, since Lefties would only recover 1 HP per turn most of the time I think. Life Orb is pretty good though, for the same reasons why Leftovers aren't that great imo. Hazards could still be useful, since they let you break random sashes and give some minor residual damage, although I will admit that Spikes needs 2 layers in order to do anything significant, and you need to be weak to SR for it to do anything as well. I definitely agree that they are not as good as in OU though, but they can still see some use imo.

Flame Orb Guts looks pretty good, as you're usually taking just as much damage as a LO user (only I guess constantly) but getting more power. Also, I will admit that Leech Seed also doesn't seem that great, all things considered.

Heracross (M) @ Flame Orb
Trait: Guts
Level: 1
EVs: 76 Atk / 76 Def / 36 HP
Serious Nature
- Megahorn
- Close Combat
- Stone Edge
- Swords Dance / Facade

Heracross is cool, since it gets STAB Megahorn and Close Combat. 13/7/7 bulk is pretty decent, and Guts Boosted 8 attack CCs and Megahorns are going to hurt. Stone Edge hits the flying pokemon that resists your STAB combo, and SD is for setting up. Alternatively, Facade is pretty strong if you think setting up isn't worth it.

 

[Edricky]

Awesome. I actually had an idea like this a while back (didn't say anything because I thought it would be frowned upon, lol), so that's cool(the difference I had was that it made only lvlup moves as able, but I think this would work really cool.

I had my eyes on a few different 'Mons, but idk which ones are the best. I can tell you right now, though, that stat-boosting abilities, items and moves are gonna be big... Also, the BP of moves is prob gonna be important, although its pure speculation at this point.

I'd battle someone in this if they wanted to, too.

Edit: Ooh, Marill looks good... 116 HP/116 Atk and your stats are 13/6/6/5/6/6; double Attack and it becomes 13/12/6/5/6/6. CB, and its 13/18/6/5/6/6. With STAB Priority. Yeah, sounds appealing...

Double Edit: I will actually except match requests in this, I got a team now. Very ragtag.

 

[Harbinger of Peace]

This is a very interesting metagame. Stall seems legit in this puny pokemon meta.

 

[iliketrains11]

probably the most powerful pokemon in the entire metagame...
Clamperl

item: deepseatooth
Shell smash
scald
ice beam
hidden power fire/ground

also, thanks for making an actually good version of the level 1 thread

 

[Edricky]

probably the most powerful pokemon in the entire metagame...
Clamperl

item: deepseatooth
Shell smash
scald
ice beam
hidden power fire/ground

also, thanks for making an actually good version of the level 1 thread

Why did no one notice this earlier lol?!

Before an SS, it's stats are (With a EV spread of 88 SpAtk / 236 SpDef / 24 Spd, though you can put 168 in Atk and give up something else if you want to but I don't suggest that) : 12/6/7/7/7/6; DeepSeaTooth makes it 12/6/7/14/7/6, and SS makes it a ridiculous 12/12/6/26/6/12 (I think); That's abso-freaking-OMG-lutely ridiculous. (And I thought Marill would be great lol) Now we must see about stuff like Cubone, etc... (Lol this'll be fun.)

I'll edit this post with some findings unless someone else posts in which case I will simply respond.

Not the edit you wanted: I noticed there is a few errors in the eligibility list, like the fact that you cannot have Electrode or Ditto at Lvl one. I'll comb through it but only post it if someone wants to hear it.

ALSO, The edit you do want to hear, is that Marill and Clamperl are really the only of that sort (Ability and Item) that really would do good through theorymon (I want to battle someone in this so bad lol, Theorymonning is dangerous.); Meditite has no good stat except Attack, and it's only Priority is Bullet Punch and Fake Out. And Cubone is too slow, has bad movepool and the Attack is not really good enough IMO to use it. Really fully evolved mons are looking the best right now lol. ALSO, Regigigas looks actually OK lol, IDK what Slow Start will do to it's capabilities but it has the exact same tools it would use in any other tier at its disposal (Return/Fire Punch/Sub/T-Wave) and it could do well. (Also, Gigas' Attack reaches 9 after Slow Start so it's got the highest stat in the tier, sorry DoughBoy, Lol)

 

[iliketrains11]

this one might sound like a joke, but i'm 100% serious.
Extreme Killer Smeargle.
item: oran berry
ability: technician
moves:
belly drum
extremespeed
mach punch/spore/aqua jet
shadow sneak/spore/sucker punch/aqua jet
after belly drum, smeargle has 24 attack, spam whatever priority move makes the most sense, and win.
for the choice of sucker punch or shadow sneak, sucker punch is stronger but riskier, but shadow sneak is a safer move
spore is optional if you want a safer time setting up belly drum, but it's not required since smeargle doesn't die to everything like it does in "standard" battling.
edit: sucker punch

 

[Agent Gibbs]

Magnemite with an Oran Berry seems like a pretty interesting Pokemon in this metagame. It's got the typing to switch into a wide variety of attacks and heal up with its Oran Berry if it needs to. The cool thing about Magnemite, however, is the fact that it can get down to 11 HP. This means that once Sturdy has been activated, Magnemite can eat its Oran Berry and recycle Sturdy. It even learns Recycle so that it can recycle is Oran Berry which in turn recycles the recycling of Sturdy, only to be recycled again by Recycle.

 

[Heroes and Cons]

Druddigon seems like it would be pretty powerful. Stats barely different from that of Palkia (slower though), and it gets Sucker Punch in addition to Glare, Outrage and Superpower.

And I second the above post by iliketrains11, Extremekiller Smeargle sounds pretty devastating actually.

 

[iliketrains11]

i kind of feel like drought shouldn't be banned, it's not like any chlorophyll pokemon are really overpowered with it

 

[Gerard]

It's not really one mon but the combination of all of them, they only need one to sweep through your team and Ninetales is a lot better in here than in OU being the only FE weather starter

 

[yikes]

Magnemite with an Oran Berry seems like a pretty interesting Pokemon in this metagame. It's got the typing to switch into a wide variety of attacks and heal up with its Oran Berry if it needs to. The cool thing about Magnemite, however, is the fact that it can get down to 11 HP. This means that once Sturdy has been activated, Magnemite can eat its Oran Berry and recycle Sturdy. It even learns Recycle so that it can recycle is Oran Berry which in turn recycles the recycling of Sturdy, only to be recycled again by Recycle.

Wat.

 

[Edricky]

Magnemite with an Oran Berry seems like a pretty interesting Pokemon in this metagame. It's got the typing to switch into a wide variety of attacks and heal up with its Oran Berry if it needs to. The cool thing about Magnemite, however, is the fact that it can get down to 11 HP. This means that once Sturdy has been activated, Magnemite can eat its Oran Berry and recycle Sturdy. It even learns Recycle so that it can recycle is Oran Berry which in turn recycles the recycling of Sturdy, only to be recycled again by Recycle.

Wat.

I like this.

Also, is there a place where this is actually being played and I'm just unknowing? 'Cause I want to play this.

 

[iliketrains11]

It's not really one mon but the combination of all of them, they only need one to sweep through your team and Ninetales is a lot better in here than in OU being the only FE weather starter

i don't think oddish, bellsprout are going to be sweeping entire teams any time soon. dialga 4x resists grass, and is immune to poison so they won't really be going anywhere because of that...

 

[Edricky]

i don't think oddish, bellsprout are going to be sweeping entire teams any time soon. dialga 4x resists grass, and is immune to poison so they won't really be going anywhere because of that...

List of Pokemon with Chlorphyll available at lv 1(might have missed some):

Bellsprout
Cherubi
Deerling
Exeggcute
Hoppip
Lilligant
Maractus
Oddish
Petilil
Seedot
Sunflora
Sunkern
Tangela
Tropius
Bulbasaur
Cottonee
Whimsicott

Hmm. And that's not counting the Fire-Types, Solar Power-ers, and anything else that benefits from permanent 50% power boost to fire, one-turn Solarbeam and 50% weakened water. Among other things. It's not necessarily broken-at-first-sight, but with a wee bit of searching you see some of the powerhouses like Lilligant, Whimsicott, idk Sunflora, Tropius, Deerling maybe, idk but it would be overcentralizing even if it were able to be contained. 'The only reason to run water moves is if you run another weather' yeah there's sand and hail but sun is so much more powerful right off the bat (Blizzspam/Drilbur+Sandshrew core versus Ninetales and six Chlorophylls...)

I'm fine with it in case no one else noticed lol.