The Level 1 Metagame

Discussion in 'Other Metagames' started by Arcticblast, May 26, 2013.

  1. iliketrains11

    iliketrains11

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    if you're running sandshrew and drillbur, the ninetales will have a problem, being a ground type weakness. if it's a swords dance drillbur or some kind of attack boosting sandshrew (idk if swords dance is with him) it would die against both of them
  2. JamesSonofBaboonzo

    JamesSonofBaboonzo

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    Assortment of random calcs to provide evidence of this.252 SpA Choice Specs Ninetales Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Cresselia in sun: 15-18 (107.14 - 128.57%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    252 SpA Choice Specs Ninetales Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Chansey in sun: 10-13 (62.5 - 81.25%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    252 SpA Choice Specs Ninetales Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Lugia in sun: 12-15 (85.71 - 107.14%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
    252 SpA Choice Specs Ninetales SolarBeam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Vaporeon: 12-16 (85.71 - 114.28%) -- 81.25% chance to OHKO
    252 SpA Choice Specs Ninetales Hidden Power Rock vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Ho-Oh: 16-20 (114.28 - 142.85%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    252 SpA Choice Specs Ninetales Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Shuckle in sand: 6-7 (50 - 58.33%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    +2 252 SpA Lilligant SolarBeam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Chansey: 9-12 (56.25 - 75%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    +2 252 SpA Lilligant Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Lugia in sun: 7-9 (50 - 64.28%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    +2 252 SpA Lilligant SolarBeam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Latias: 6-8 (46.15 - 61.53%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

    252 Atk Choice Band Victini V-create vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Regirock in sun: 9-11 (69.23 - 84.61%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    252 Atk Choice Band Victini V-create vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Torkoal in sun: 9-12 (69.23 - 92.3%) -- 81.25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
    252 Atk Choice Band Victini Bolt Strike vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Solid Rock Tirtouga: 7-9 (53.84 - 69.23%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    I rest my case
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 19, 2013
  3. Heroes and Cons

    Heroes and Cons

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    Steelix could be intriguing. Even at Lv 1, its Defense would be a few points higher than most Pokemon's, and its great defensive typing and STAB Earthquake would make it quite difficult to face.
  4. Torterragatr

    Torterragatr

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    Will this metagame ever be implemented by the way? It's one of the few in this forum that hasn't been :-/
  5. Snaquaza

    Snaquaza

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    I could try to make it
  6. Arcticblast

    Arcticblast improsin + bapongbas gg,,,,,,
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    So I just realized that level 1 Gyarados is legal, albeit with no level-up moves whatsoever. I'll add it when I'm not on my phone. Also, Sableye seems like a good check to Smeargle in theory - immune to Extremespeed, can Taunt to prevent Spore, etc. Eviolite Aron and Shieldon could also work.

    EDIT: running a Bold nature on all special attackers to weaken confusion damage doesn't sound bad either.
  7. Snaquaza

    Snaquaza

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    and Foul Play damage, it's worth something too :)
  8. The_Eevee_General

    The_Eevee_General Resident OM designer/curator/defiler extraordinaire
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    Did any replays of this ever get saved?
  9. Mulan15262

    Mulan15262

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    Gyarados can know Thrash, Rain Dance, Aqua Tail, and Hyper Beam at level 1, all of which are level up moves, so over one third of its level up movepool is legal.
  10. Torterragatr

    Torterragatr

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    After a little testing, there are a few EV observations that we can make about level 1 Pokémon. It's not a complete explanation by far, but it's a start. I'm not exceptional at math so it might be a little wrong.

    If a base stat increases by one, then the amount of EVs needed to reach a number for that stat decrease by eight and vise versa. Just like in LC, each base stat belongs to a "stat range", or the range where the stat will be the same when maxed out. However, level 1 stat ranges are huuuge next to level 5 ones, 49 base points compared to 9 for LC mons. Like at level 5, level 1 stat ranges start at base stats ending in 3 and end at 2.

    At level 1 there is a gap of about 18 base points where investment is not needed for the stat, because the stat is the same no matter how many EVs are put in it; if you can avoid it, the EV stat gain table used in this article seems to work most of the time (when it's off it's only by 4 EVs or so). Since stats can only increase by one at the most, which investment allows the stat to increase is influenced by the digits its base stat begins in as well as the one it ends in. For instance, Natu's base SpA is 70, so it needs 116 EVs for it to be bumped up, but Basculin's is 80, which means going back one we get 36 EVs for the stat to increase.
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2013
  11. TheTraininator

    TheTraininator

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    So I'm gonna Wish Pass to this thread because it still seems like a legitimately awesome metagame, with a lot brought to the table by Pokemon X and Y, such as many more viable Pokemon and various Megas for previously eligible Pokemon, though I don't know how much they make in terms of stat difference. (Stuff like Mega Mawile and Kangaskhan are especially notable.)
  12. BuriedAlive

    BuriedAlive

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    Fun fact: Marill can (as of Gen VI) spam aqua jet from 48 attack after factoring in Belly Drum and Huge Power.

    It is checked by resists though:
    +6 116 Atk Huge Power Marill Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Palkia: 3-4 (23 - 30.7%) -- 96.3% chance to 4HKO
  13. I not tell U

    I not tell U

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    M-Mawile might be useful in this tier
  14. I not tell U

    I not tell U

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    Marill has Play Rough tho
  15. BuriedAlive

    BuriedAlive

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    Hence check, not counter.
  16. Shaymin :D

    Shaymin :D

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    But Smeargle would only learn Sketch once, since its lvl 1. That pretty much throws this strategy out of the window :/
  17. OiawesomeDG

    OiawesomeDG

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    Not really, you can relearn sketch at the move relearner, it's the same as if you replaced any lv 1 move with a TM move and went back to the relearner
    youngjake93 and Lord Ghetsis like this.
  18. Arcticblast

    Arcticblast improsin + bapongbas gg,,,,,,
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    Actually I might just ban Smeargle whenever I make the XY version of this, considering it's a fuck ton harder to actually Sketch moves in XY (and because Belly Drum Smeargle was pretty terrifying).
    Valzy and Lord Ghetsis like this.
  19. Audiosurfer

    Audiosurfer Expect Amazing
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    Please make the XY version of this sometime, I remember this meta being really fun to play :)
  20. OiawesomeDG

    OiawesomeDG

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    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 1, 2014
  21. Valzy

    Valzy

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    Sets (open)

    Support (open)

    SubToxic
    Cottonee @ Leftovers
    Trait: Prankster
    Level: 1
    IVs: 0 HP
    EVs: 196 DEF/148 SPD
    Modest Nature (To minimize foul play and confusion damage)
    - Subsitute
    - Protect
    - Toxic
    - Leech Seed/Thunderwave/ Tailwind/Hidden Power Fire/Hidden Power Ground/Sunny Day

    0 HP IVs means that Cottonee's substitutes only require 2 HP, letting it toxic stall with Substitute and Protect. The last slot is used to either support the team or let Cottonee get past Pokemon immune to toxic. Leech Seed allows Cottonee to damage steel and poison types, but doesn't work against ferroseed or the many grass/poison types. Thunderwave and tailwind both provide speed control for teammates. Hidden Power Fire hits steel, grass/poison and bug/poison super effectively while Hidden Power hits poison and steel types super effectively but leaves Cottonee useless against Skarmory and Zubat. Sunny Day allows Cottonee to provide sun support.

    Threats: Any pokemon with faster priority or that can ohko Cottonee before it toxics it can easily shut Cottonee down. Poison Pokemon aren't affected by toxic and can take advantage of its 4x weakness to poison. Steel typed Pokemon also give it a headache.

    SubToxic
    Diglett @ Leftovers
    Trait: Arena Trap
    Level: 1
    EVs: 236 ATK/76 DEF
    Hardy Nature
    - Subsitute
    - Protect
    - Toxic
    - Earthquake

    Similar to the set above, this set toxic stalls with substitute and protect, but instead of using prankster to let it out-speed it's opponent, it uses Arena Trap to trap targets slower than it. Earthquake is used to hit steel and poison types super effectively. This set only works on Pokemon slower than it.

    Threats: Anything that out-speeds it, has priority or can ohko it.

    Purrloin and Riolu can also pull off sets very similar to these. Unfortunately, Sableye has too much HP to use protect/substitute/toxic/will-o-wisp

    Offensive (open)

    Swords Dance
    Mawile @ Mawilite
    Trait: Intimidate
    Level: 1
    EVs: 236 ATK/76 DEF
    Hardy Nature
    - Swords Dance
    - Iron Head
    - Sucker Punch
    - Rough Play

    Defense (open)

    Woobat @ Eviolite
    Trait: Unaware
    Level: 1
    EVs: 236 HP/236 SPA
    Hardy Nature
    - Roost
    - Reflect
    - Psychic
    - Sleep Talk

    Unaware Woobat is a fairly good smeargle counter. It can take an extreme speed, set up reflect, roost off the damage and 2HKO with psychic.

    116 Atk Smeargle Extreme Speed vs. 236 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Unaware Woobat: 4-6 (30.7 - 46.1%) -- 17.6% chance to 3HKO

    116 Atk Smeargle Extreme Speed vs. 236 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Unaware Woobat through Reflect: 2-3 (15.3 - 23%) -- possible 5HKO

    116 Atk Smeargle Sucker Punch vs. 236 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Unaware Woobat through Reflect: 3-4 (23 - 30.7%) -- 22.8% chance to 4HKO

    236 SpA Woobat Psychic vs. 236 HP / 0 SpD Smeargle: 7-9 (53.8 - 69.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO





    Stat Info (open)


    All stats besides hp
    Base stat: max stat
    253-255: 12
    203-252: 11
    153-202: 9
    103-152: 8
    53- 102: 7
    3-52: 6
    1-2: 5

    Hp
    Base stat: max stat
    253-255: 17
    203-252: 16
    153-202: 15
    103-152: 14
    53- 102: 13
    3-52: 12
    1-2: 11


    EVing Info (open)

    Add 8 evs for each point base stat is less than examples, subtract 8 evs for each point base stat is higher than examples.

    Base Stat: EVs needed to max stat
    235-252: 0
    230: 36
    185-202: 0
    180: 36
    175: 76
    170: 116
    165: 156
    160: 196
    155: 236
    135-152: 0
    130: 36
    125: 76
    120: 116
    115: 156
    110: 196
    105: 236
    85-102: 0
    80: 36
    75: 76
    70: 116
    65: 156
    60: 196
    55: 236
    35-52: 0
    30: 36
    25: 76
    20: 116
    15: 156
    10: 196
    5: 236


    EV Spreads RBY (open)

    * - Can't max all stats

    Bulbasaur 156 SPA/156 SDEF
    Charmander 196 SPA/156 SPD
    Squirtle 156 DEF/164 SDEF
    Caterpie 36 ATK/116 SPA/116 SDEF
    Weedle 36 DEF/116 SPA/ 116 SDEF
    Pidgey 228 SPD
    Rattata 36 HP/228 ATK/76 SPA/100 SPD
    Spearow 196 ATK/36 DEF/28 SPA/28 SDEF/116 SPD
    *Ekans 196 ATK/244 SDEF/236 SPD
    Pikachu 236 ATK
    Sandshrew 76 ATK/116 SPA/36 SDEF
    Nidoran F 236 HP
    Nidoran M 220 ATK
    Vulpix 156 SDEF/156 SPD
    Ninetales 92 HP/68 ATK/76 DEF/28 SPA
    Zubat 36 SPA/236 SPD
    Oddish 236 DEF/76 SPA/ 156 SDEF/36 SPD
    *Paras 116 ATK/236 DEF/236 SDEF/ 76 SPD
    *Venonat 196 HP/236 ATK/236 SDEF
    Diglett 196 HP/236 ATK/ 76 DEF
    Meowth None
    Psyduck 156 SPA/236 SPD
    Mankey 36 ATK/116 SPD
    *Growlith 236 HP/116 ATk/116 SPA/196 SPD
    Arcanine 196 HP/36 Def/ 36 SDEF
    Poliwag None
    *Abra 76 HP/116 ATK/156 DEF/236 SPA/236 SDEF
    Machop 116 HP/36 ATK
    Bellsprout 76 ATK/116 SPA/36 SDEF
    Tentacool 116 SPD
    Geodude 36 ATK/36 SPA/36 SDEF/116 SPD
    *Ponyta 236 DEF/156 SPA/156 SDEF
    Slowpoke 156 ATK/156 DEF/156 SPD
    Magnemite 76 HP/116 DEF/236 SDEF
    *Farfecth'd 156 ATK/236 DEF/212 SPA/180 SDEF/196 SPD
    Doduo 76 SPD
    Seel 156 HP/236 DEF/116 SPD
    Grimer 36 HP/36 ATK/76 SPD
    Shelder 36 HP/156 ATK/76 SDEF
    Cloyster 36 DEF/76 SDEF
    Ghastly 36 HP/36 DEF/36 SPD
    Onix 196 DEF/36 SPA/116 SPD
    Drowzee 196 HP
    Krabby 36 HP/236 ATK/76 SPA/76 SDEF
    Voltorb 36 ATK/236 SPA/236 SDEF
    Exeggcute 196 HP/116 DEF/36 SPA/36 SDEF
    Exeggutor 76 SPA/156 SDEF/236 SPD
    Cubone None
    *Lickitung 236 ATK/76 DEF196 SPA/76 SDEF/36 SPD
    Koffing 156 ATK/196 SPA
    Rhyhorn 36 HP/36 SPA/36 SDEF/76 SPD
    *Chansey 236 ATK/236 DEF/236 SDEF
    *Tangela 156 HP/236 ATK/156 DEF/196 SPD
    Kangaskhan 236 HP/36 DEF/36 SDEF
    *Horsea 36 HP/116 DEF/116 SPA/76 SDEF/196 SPD
    Goldeen 140 ATK/196 DEF/ 196 SPD
    *Staryu 36 HP/236 DEF/116 SPA/236 SDEF
    Starmie 196 HP/76 ATK/156 SPD
    Mr. Mime 156 DEF/116 SDEF
    *Scyther 116 HP/196 ATK/36 DEF/236 SPA/36 SDEF/236 SPD
    *Pinsir 156 HP/76 ATK/236 SPA/116 SDEF
    Tauros 76 HP/116 SDEF/196 SPD
    *Magikarp 116 HP/196 ATK/236 DEF/ 156 SPA/116 SDEF/36 SPD
    Lapras 36 HP/36 DEF/196 SPD
    Ditto None
    *Eevee 236 HP/236 ATK/156 SDEF/236 SPD
    *Vaporeon 36 HP/156 ATK/196 DEF/196 SPA/156 SPD
    *Jolteon 156 HP/156 ATK/196 DEF/ 196 SPA/ 36 SPD
    *Flareon 156 HP/36 ATK/196 DEF/196 SDEF/156 SPD
    *Porygon 156 HP/196 ATK/116 DEF/76 SDEF
    Omanyte 236 SDEF
    *Kabuto 36 HP/36 ATk/ 236 SPA/236 SPD
    *Aerodactyl 36 HP/236 ATK/156 DEF/196 SPA/76 SDEF/36 SPD
    *Snorelax 196 HP/196 ATK/156 DEF/156 SPA/196 SDEF/36 SPD
    Dratini 148 ATK


    EV Spreads Mega Pokemon (open)

    * - Can't max all stats

    Mega Kangaskhan 236 HP/76 ATK/196 SPA
    *Mega Pinsir 156 HP/236 ATK/116 DEF/156 SPA/236 SPD
    Mega Aerodactyl 36 HP/116 SPA
    Mega Scizor 116 HP/156 SPA/76 SPD
    Mega Heracross 36 HP/156 DEF/236 SDEF/76 SPD
    *Mega Mawile 236 ATK/76 DEF/236 SPA
    *Mega Absol 156 HP/196 DEF/156 SPA/196 SDEF/156 SPD



    XY Eligable Pokemon (open)

    Chespin
    Fennekin
    Froxie
    Bunnelby
    Flecthling
    Scatterbug
    Litleo
    Flabebe
    Skiddo
    Pancham
    Furfrou
    Espurr
    Honedge
    Spritzee
    Aromatisse
    Swirlix
    Slurpuff
    Inkay
    Binacle
    Skrelp
    Clauncher
    Helioptile
    Heliolisk
    Tyrunt
    Amaura
    Hawlucha
    Dedenne
    Carbink
    Goomy
    Klefki
    Phantump
    Trevenant
    Pumpkaboo
    Gourgeist
    Bergmite
    Noibat


    Eligable Mega Pokemon (open)

    Mega Kangaskhan
    Mega Pinsir
    Mega Aerodactyl
    Mega Scizor
    Mega Heracross
    Mega Mawile
    Mega Absol
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2014

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