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The Light Side of the Moon [Peaked #12, 1900]

Discussion in 'BW Other Teams' started by typon77, Nov 7, 2012.

  1. typon77

    typon77

    Joined:
    May 9, 2011
    Messages:
    1,490
    THE LIGHT SIDE OF THE MOON
    An RU Team by typon77

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    Hello RU Players, this is typon77 with a bulky offensive RU team that I have been fairly successfully with. Although I am not an awful battler, I'm not that great, so the success I have had with this team gave me a lot to think about. I've played RU on and off since its beginning, but this is the first time I have seriously laddered. Once I saw that Cofagrigus moved up and that Cresselia and Durant were unbanned, I decided it was time to try RU again. This team features both unbanned pokemon with some other prominent threats in the metagame. The centerpiece of this team is the Bulky TWave CM Cresselia that has been becoming popular recently. So with out further rambling, here's the team! ​


    Team at a Glance​


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    In-Depth Look


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    Nidoqueen (F) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Sheer Force
    EVs: 176 HP / 252 SAtk / 80 Spd
    Modest Nature
    - Stealth Rock
    - Earth Power
    - Fire Blast
    - Thunderbolt

    Although Cresselia is the center of this team, Nidoqueen often ends up being the MVP of many of the matches I play. Her sheer power and good neutral coverage with the given moveset lets her break through walls and slower pokemon with ease. I often lead with Nidoqueen, as she forces a lot of other pokemon out, and use the free switch to either predict the switch and hit the switch in if I think a threatening pokemon is coming in, or use the free turn to set up Stealth Rock. A Bulky Offense team like this needs some form of hazards to penalize the many switches forced, so I opted to replace one of Nidoqueen's coverage moves with Stealth Rock. Cresselia greatly benefits from these hazards, as it lets her KO much faster than before. Nidoqueen's usefulness, however, is not diminished mid and late game. Her powerful moves let her break through walls and sweep slower, weakened teams late game. Earth Power is a staple on all Nidoqueen sets, as its a reliable, powerful STAB with great neutral and super effective coverage in the metagame. Sludge Wave is my safety STAB move. Generally, when I'm not sure what move my opponent is going to make, I can utilize Sludge Wave's great neutral coverage to do good damage to most of my opponents options. For my coverage move, I chose Thunderbolt over other options like Fire Blast so I could get an OHKO on Moltres, a huge threat to this team, and to do more damage to Slowking, one of Nidoqueen's best checks. I've been considering using a bulkier EV spread, something like 100 HP / 252 SpA / 156 Spe, but I'm not sure if that's worth it. Using the new EV spread suggested by col49.

    Fire Blast has replaced Sludge Wave temporarily to help with my weakness to defensive Grass and Bug types such as Ferroseed, Roselia, and Escavalier.


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    Cresselia (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 Def / 252 HP / 4 Spd
    Bold Nature
    - Calm Mind
    - Psychic
    - Thunder Wave
    - Moonlight

    When I heard that this thing was unbanned and the Cofagrigus moved up, I immediately jumped back into RU. Finally, a pokemon the slowed down the former all out offense of the tier, and gave bulky teams a way to be more successful. Cresselia has become an invaluable mid-game pivot and late game sweeper that this team just couldn't do without. Her bulk is unsurpassed in the tier, and the full defense investment makes her near impossible to 2HKO without super effective STABs. She can even tank some of those, avoiding a 2HKO from moves like Scolipede's Megahorn. Thunder Wave and Moonlight provide the core moves for her mid game sponging, as she can come in on an offensive threat, paralyze that pokemon or switch in while taking a hit, and then heal up any lost HP from the inevitable chip damage using Moonlight. However, late game, when all the Dark Types and bulky Steels are gone, is when the fun really begins. Once Cresselia gets in on a weakened team and sets up a Calm Mind or two, she is almost impossible to break, and she still outspeeds slow and paralyzed pokemon, as 85 Speed is much higher than most defensive pokemon. She can then alternate boosting and healing until she can sweep without opposition. Her teammates have been chosen to help her sweep late game. Medicham breaks through fast Dark types and Steels, Durant also takes out Darks and Psychics as well as opening up holes in the other team and being able to sweep itself, while Magmortar can take out the bulkiest of Steels and most other walls single handedly, and Nidoqueen can absorb the various status inducers like Thunder Wave and Toxic that hinder Cresselia's abilities.


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    Durant @ Life Orb
    Trait: Hustle
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 HP
    Jolly Nature
    - Hone Claws
    - X-Scissor
    - Superpower
    - Iron Head

    Durant is one of those pokemon that doesn't need coverage or bulk to sweep, it just has so much raw power and speed that it can break through almost anything with STAB moves alone. Its base 109 speed is one of its most important attributes, as it allows Durant to outspeed a majority of the unbolted metagame regardless. His Bug STAB also lets him break through the Psychics and Darks that give Cresselia trouble, and it can be used as another late game sweeper if he is better suited for sweeping that team. Hone Claws is a move that just seems to be made for Durant. Without the accuracy boost, the drop from Hustle seems to bite me in the butt more often than Stone Edge. However, Stone Edge remedies this problem, while also further boosting Durant's already ridiculous Attack. The coverage moves are fairly obvious. X-Scissor and Iron Head are obvious STAB moves that have good coverage and good synergy with my team, while Rock Slide is used to destroy the Fire types that will try to tank my STAB moves.

    Superpower has replaced Rock Slide so Durant can better take on Steel types.


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    Sceptile @ Life Orb
    Trait: Overgrow
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 HP
    Timid Nature
    - Leaf Storm
    - Focus Blast
    - Hidden Power [Rock]
    - Giga Drain

    Sceptile literally does everything that an offensive pokemon could do. It can blast holes through teams with a 140 BP, Life Orb boosted Leaf Storm, it can revenge many threats with its base 120 Speed, and it can stay alive for a while with Giga Drain as a reliable STAB. I was so excited to see this at the #1 spot in October, because there's just no reason not to use it. Sceptile functions on this team as a secondary offensive threat and backup revenge killer. Basically, its my insurance that can take the place of other team members in case they fail. However, my team members usually do a more precise job with these roles, as Medicham is a faster revenge killer, Durant is a superior sweeper, and Magmortar and Nidoqueen hit generally harder with better coverage. That being said, Sceptile is in no way insignificant and is often my most important team member with his unique coverage. Leaf Storm is my "destroy everything" STAB move, which lets me OHKO most pokemon without too much bulk invested. Focus Blast lets me hit the steels that resist my Grass STAB, although its accuracy makes me question its worth sometimes. HP Rock is very important, as it lets me OHKO Moltres and heavily damage other Fires that try to come in on my Grass STAB. Finally, Giga Drain is a reliable, albeit much weaker, STAB that lets me attack without dropping my stats while also recovering any lost HP.


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    Magmortar @ Expert Belt
    Trait: Flame Body
    EVs: 24 HP / 252 SAtk / 232 Spd
    Modest Nature
    - Fire Blast
    - Thunderbolt
    - Focus Blast
    - Substitute

    I honestly can't believe this thing was NU at one point. Its utility in this increasingly bulky metagame is phenomenal. With the three coverage moves I have, it can break some of the bulkiest pokemon in the metagame with Stealth Rocks, including, but not limited to: Tangrowth, Slowking, Clefable, and Ferroseed. Magmortar makes sweeping infinitely easier for every other team member, as it destroys the stall teams that can wall my other sweepers. The strategy with it is simple. Come in on a revenge or resisted weak attack on a pokemon that it outspeeds and forces out (more pokemon than you would think), and set up a Substitute or predict a switch. If you set up a Substitute, you can leave them in a bad way, because Magmortar can outright OHKO many offensive threats that outspeed it, and leaving Magmortar behind a Substitute is dangerous. The move set is very important to Magmortar's success. Fire Blast is non-negotiable, as its sheer power lets Magmortar heavily damage anything without a resistance. Thunderbolt his bulky waters, letting Magmortar 2HKO Slowking and OHKO other pokemon such as Kabutops and Moltres with a little prior damage. Focus Blast is for hitting those Normal type special walls that tank too many neutral hits, like Munchlax, Clefable, and Audino. Substitute isn't too common on Magmortar, but its an excellent move for abusing the switches it forces. Expert Belt was chosen over Life Orb because LO recoil would stack too much with Substitute damage, so Magmortar's longevity is greatly increased.


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    Medicham @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Pure Power
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 SDef
    Jolly Nature
    - Hi Jump Kick
    - Psycho Cut
    - ThunderPunch
    - Trick

    I don't know how Medicham moves so fast and hits so hard with those short, chubby legs. However, I am thankful for that, because Medicham is one of my primary revenge killers on this team. Scarf Medicham is an amazing set, because it lets Medicham use its well over 400 attack stat with boosted speed and a 130 BP STAB move to kill most of the frailer sweepers. I use Jolly over Adamant because the power difference isn't too different, but I can outspeed and OHKO Aerodactyl. I can also outspeed and OHKO things like Sceptile, +1 Crawdaunt, and Cryogonal. Its utility doesn't stop there. Thanks to its Fighting type and Trick, it can take our Dark Types and cripple walls, two things that Cresselia greatly appreciates. I can't really see any better options for its move set. Hi Jump Kick is absolutely necessary, as its power with STAB and type coverage make it too powerful to give up, especially for revenging pokemon. Psycho Cut is a more reliable STAB with decent coverage. I opted for it over Zen Headbutt so I would have a more accurate STAB to use. ThunderPunch hits Moltres for a 2HKO, while also hitting waters harder. I don't really use it much, but its always there when needed, and there are not really any better moves to use, seeing as Medicham only really needs HJK and Trick. Finally, Trick is there to mess with stall teams, but I only use Trick if I'm sure I won't need Medicham for revenge anymore.


    Conclusion

    I've had a lot of fun using this team, and I'm definitely going to continue using it until the metagame changes or something on the team leaves. Cresselia is such an all-purpose pokemon in this role, and its teammates support it very well. However, like any team, this team isn't perfect at all. Any improvements or suggestions you could make on move sets, EVs, or even pokemon changes, I would be happy to hear. Let me know especially in the case of EVs, because I'm not very good with creating EV spreads, and if there are better options I would love to try them out. Anyways, thanks for the read, and please rate and comment!
  2. col49

    col49 what.
    is a Contributor to Smogon
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2011
    Messages:
    1,063
    Hey Typon, this is a really cool team, and I really like how it showcases the new suspect 'mons. I honestly had to do a go-over of this team a few times to see where any good constructive criticism is to be had, so bear with me and I'll see what I can do to help :]

    From inspecting your team, most threats have been covered rather well, though a few present themselves as issues. Escavalier, especially CB variants, can switch in on Cresselia, Sceptile, and Nidoqueen relatively well (Durant as well, but Durant can sponge a hit and KO unless it's at particularly low HP), and can proceed to threaten your team with it's powerful STAB attacks. Powerful Fire-types, most notably Entei, are capable of switching in on Magmortar and Sceptile (during / post Leaf Storm SpA drops) and basically guaranteeing a KO with Flare Blitz, as your only Fire resist is rather frail, and cannot outspeed regardless. Lastly, Taunt+SD Drapion, although being checked rather aptly by Durant, still pose immediate problems for Cresselia, and finds similar set-ups opportunities in Sceptile and Psycho Cut-locked Medicham.

    My first suggestion would be, as you suggested yourself, a bulkier Nidoqueen spread. More often than not Nidoqueen hardly needs all the Speed a maximum investment provides, as most common offensive Pokemon outpace it regardless, and most defensive Pokemon are outsped with a meager investment. A bulkier spread would serve to cement it's ability to check Pokemon such as Accelgor, and allowing to (somewhat) comfortably switch into Escavalier's attacks. I propose a spread of 176 HP / 252 SpA / 80 Spe, allowing Nidoqueen to outpace minimally invested Base 85's, such as Qwilfish and opposing Cresselia. Moreover, to deter Pokemon like Escavalier from switching in, I would recommend the use of Fire Blast over Sludge Wave. While it does remove a "safe move" in times of uncertainty, Fire Blast offers like coverage, while hitting Pokemon such as Escavalier and Roselia harder, who you generally would rather not be giving free turns to x_x

    I would also recommend the use of Superpower over Rock Slide on Durant. While I understand your desire to hit Fire-types hard, Superpower is more than capable of taking out Pokemon like Entei at +1 (104.04 - 122.64%), while also smashing Steel-types. Yes, Moltres quote-on-quote "walls" you with this change, but it is safely OHKOed by a +1 Iron Head (after SR) regardless!

    In terms of Magmortar, I truly feel that Vital Spirit is the superior ability. Though the chance burn does come in handy for deterring U-Turn to a degree, the ability to switch into the various Sleep moves of the tier with impunity is simply outstanding. Also, and this is definitely a matter of preference, I would look into a spread of 64 HP / 252 SpA / 192 Spe w/a Timid nature on Magmortar. Though the drop from Modest to Timid is fairly noticeable in terms of power, this change allows Magmortar to outpace standard Smeargle and limit it to setting up a single layer of hazards, which can be crucial in match-ups with Heavy Offense teams considering your lack of spinner. Moreover, this allows Magmortar to safely outpace Pokemon such as Gallade and most all non-CS Rotom-C.

    Personally, I feel as though Medicham is sort of the "weak link" of this team, and if I may, I would recommend replacing it with a Defensive Poliwrath. Poliwrath safely patches up issues with Drapion, Escavalier, Entei, and much more by merit of his excellent bulk and typing. What's more, his ability to spread residual damage between Circle Throw shuffling and Scald burns all help to wear down the opponent for your offensive 'mons to clean up late-game. For reference, here's my proposed set:
    Show Hide
    Poliwrath (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Water Absorb
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
    Relaxed Nature
    - Circle Throw
    - Scald
    - Rest
    - Sleep Talk


    That being said, I hope my comments were of use to you, good luck with your team bud :]

    Tl;dr:
    Show Hide
    [​IMG]
    • Current Spread ---> 176 HP / 252 SpA / 80 Spe
    • Sludge Wave --> Fire Blast
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    • Rock Slide ---> Superpower
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    • Flame Body ---> Vital Spirit
    • Current Spread ---> 64 HP / 252 SpA / 192 Spe (opt.)
    • Modest --> Timid (opt.)

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  3. typon77

    typon77

    Joined:
    May 9, 2011
    Messages:
    1,490
    Thanks for the rate col!

    You made some great suggestions. I'll definitely make the moveset changes to Durant and Nidoqueen, and I'll test out that bulkier EV spread. As for Magmortar, the ability was simply a negligent mistake that I never noticed. I'll try the EV spread but I don't think I can 2HKO Slowking with the EV change, and the goal of the set is only to outspeed and KO walls, so I'm not sure how useful the extra speed will be.

    The Medicham change is a rather tough one to look at. You're definitely right in saying that Medicham is the closest thing to a weakest link on the team, although its often incredibly useful. Poliwrath would definitely help with defensive synergy, but I'm worried about the amount of offensive momentum it would cost me. Unlike Cresselia, which is an excellent pivot with its reliable recovery, that Poliwrath set would cost me my offensive momentum and give my opponents chances to switch in and take advantage of it, especially if I'm missing Nidoqueen to pivot into. I'll try it though, maybe I'll be wrong about the momentum.

    EDIT: Tried the Nidoqueen set. I love it. It helps me against Escavalier so much, as I just played a game against a Bulky Knock Off Escavalier where Nidoqueen's bulk was crucial.
  4. Yonko7

    Yonko7 Guns make you stupid. Duct tape makes you smart.
    is a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2012
    Messages:
    651
    I don't wanna necro this thread, but this only got one rate; if I get infracted, t'is okay ^^

    ****

    This looks a solid team and very well built. During my playtesting, I didn't see anything that it too bad, provided one plays well with the team. I also like the presentation ^.^

    Your team likes to have the offensive momentum, which all of you Pokemon provide, except Cresselia. Sure Cresselia can be a threat, but it takes time to build up enough Calm Mind boosts to be effective, so everytime Cresselia is sent in, she slows down your offensive momentum. I would not go as far as replacing her completly as she is a fantasic pivot that can spread paralysis, which can pay off big time mid- to late-game.

    I suggest Light Screen replacing Calm Mind.

    My reasoning is this: your team can tank physical attacks with ease. Durant, and Cresselia have the physical defense to take these attacks. On the special side, there isn't much good news. By having Light Screen, Cresselia can switch in and set up the screen and give your team a buffer against fast special attackers such as opposing Sceptile, Galvantula, Moltres, etc.

    Also, you want to make sure to have Vital Spirit rather than Flame Body, because then it gives Magmortar a free switch into Spore, and Sleep Powder.

    Changes (open)


    Change Calm Mind to Light Screen

    Change Flame Body to Vital Spirit


  5. typon77

    typon77

    Joined:
    May 9, 2011
    Messages:
    1,490
    Finally another rate. I was hoping to get more since i worked on the RMT for a while...

    I never considered Light Screen over Calm Mind. I'll definitely try that out ASAP.
  6. Silvershadow234

    Silvershadow234 :]]]]]
    is a Pre-Contributor
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2012
    Messages:
    737
    Hi there Typhon. This looks like a really solid team, and congrats on the peak :]

    It seems to me like the biggest problem this team faces is Cresselia. Cresselia walls Medicham, Magmortar, Sceptile and Nidoqueen, and your only answer to it is Durant, who is easily won down through LO recoil, hazard damage and suffers dearly from the paralysis that cresselia creates.

    To fix the large cresselia weakness, I recommend running a Swords Dance Absol over Medicham. SD Absol is an excellent sweeper, and can create lots of holes to allow Durant to sweep late game. For example, it deals over 70% damage to Poliwrath at +2, which enables Durant to 1HKO it at +1. With queen and Magmortar breaking through walls, and with Cresselia paralysing and slowing threats down considerably, SD Absol makes an excellent late-game sweeper. Even without a SD boost, Absol's Sucker Punch still hits incredibly hard, and does much the same thing as Medicham did, i.e. revenge killing fast threats, as well as other threats such as scarf manectric. Although you miss out on Crawdaunt, the only member of your team that allows it to set-up is Cresselia and you just have to play around it(i.e. not letting it come in for free, ko'ing it straight off the bat with sceptile / durant / magmortar).

    I also recommen a different ev spread for cresselia. That spread is 2HKO'd by things such as Moltres after Stealth Rock. The optimal ev spread for cresselia would be 252 HP / 200 Def / 40 SpD / 16 Spe. This spread allows you to always take at least two Moltres Fire Blast's after Stealth Rock, and the 16 speed ev's outspeed neutral base 55's, such as Bouffolant and allows you to paralyze them. The rest is put into defense to tank hits from the likes of Medicham and Gallade better.

    Here are the sets:

    Show Hide
    Absol @ Life Orb
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Swords Dance
    - Sucker Punch
    - Night Slash
    - Superpower

    Cresselia (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 16 Spd / 40 SDef / 200 Def
    Calm Nature
    - Thunder Wave
    - Calm Mind
    - Psychic
    - Moonlight


    GL and I hope I helped. Luvdisc.

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