The Monotype Challenge: Steel

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by shiranai, Mar 15, 2012.

  1. shiranai

    shiranai

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    The Monotype Challenge: Stell
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    After successfully building my first montype team I'm here with my second challenge. This time I'm aiming in a stell team. This type is somewhat new, debuting in the second generation, and their defensive traits are brilliant: owning amazing 11 resistance, including the desired Dragon resistance, and a immunity; unfortunately their only 3 weakness are the most common types in the metagame: Fire, Ground and Fighting. And from their debut till now the only thing this type did was improving, and I'll show it now.

    Team Building Process
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    By far one of the best Stell type pokemon, with nice defensive status and access to entry hazards. It would be hard to build a steel team without it.
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    Steel type lacks of special attackers, and Magnezone is one of these few ones. Combined with its trapping ability it can become a huge threat.
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    As said, special attackers are rare in this type. Fortunatelly Heatran is one of those few. Also, his immunity to fire is really needed here.
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    I was sticking with Skarmory as the physical wall of the team. But I decided to give Steelix a shot since it has better offensive stats, even lacking a reliable recovery method. Also, Steelix the only Steel with eletric immunity, something handy.
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    Scizor is proof that if something works, everyone try it. Immense physical power paired with a priority move makes it really a monster.
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    Since this team lacks speed, Lucario is almost an obvius choice. Access to the the best priority move also helps to kill some threats.
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    By keeping Ferrothorn here I got a big problem: a huge weakness to fire. If Heatran was taken down, any pokemon armed with a fire move could sinply sweep through my whole team. This way, the metalic plant had to go so the penguin emperor Empoleon could fit the team.
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    Without Ferrothorn I wanted someone to lay Spikes. And since Ferro had to go because of its 4x weakness to fire only Skarmory was possible.


    The Team Analysis
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    Empoleon (F) @ Leftovers Trait: Torrent
    EVs: 248 HP / 8 SAtk / 252 SDef
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Scald
    - Ice Beam
    - Stealth Rock
    - Rain Dance
    At fisrt glance it seems to be a standard special defensive Empoleon. And actually it is, but packed with Rain Dance instead of a status move. And I'm doing this so the team can get less vulnerable to fire, even after Heatran being defeated, at the same time I can disrupt the weather, since Sunny Day can wrecks my whole team and a Sandstorm can make a Landorus sweep through my whole team. Also, Scald appreciates the bonus it can get with the rain. Ice Beam is an option to hit dragons, a problem here, more because of their versatility. Lastly there is Stealth Rock, mainly because Skarmory couldn't pack both SR and Spikes in the same set.



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    Magnezone @ Choice Specs
    Trait: Magnet Pull
    EVs: 148 HP / 252 SAtk / 108 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Volt Switch
    - Thunderbolt
    - Flash Cannon
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    If this Magnezone had a special priority move in its movepool it would be just like Scizor. At least it has Volt Switch, giving me a small VoltTurn, something good in a team that Stealth Rock and Toxic Spikes don't hurt a lot. With Magnet Pull it still is my main answer against the common steel types, so I need HP Fire. Thunderbolt and Flash Cannon are the main moves of the set, though, because of the ridiculous high SAtk this guy reaches with Specs. With this set Magnezone is able to 2HKO almost everything that don't resist these moves, except for Chansey and Blissey, but including Ferrothorn under the rain.


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    Heatran (M) @ Air Balloon
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Fire Blast
    - Earth Power
    - Dragon Pulse
    - Hidden Power [Grass]
    Even Heatran being vital in this team, I'm not sure if this is the best set. I wanted a Heatran that could hit hard because, except for it and Magnezone, the only other viable steel special attacker is Jirachi, and in my opinion the physical sets of the wishing star are the way to go. So, as most of the mono teams around, Heatran's moves are mainly for type coverage, trying to counter most of this team's threats: waters and grounds are hit by HP Grass, Earth Power is to get rid of opposing fire pokemon, Dragon Pulse being the answer to dragons and Fire Blast is here to enjoy of a Flash Fire boost.


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    Skarmory (F) @ Rocky Helmet Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP / 232 Def / 24 Spd
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
    - Whirlwind
    - Spikes
    - Roost
    - Brave Bird
    I had to give in and run the steel bird here. His immunity to Earthquake is the main reason for this, but being able to set up Spikes ended necessary here. I like Rocky Helmet here because Skarmory has a nice recovery move to compensate the lack of Leftovers in Roost. Otherwise, everything here is pretty standard for a physical defensive Skarmory.


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    Scizor (M) @ Choice Band
    Trait: Technician
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Def
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Bullet Punch
    - Pursuit
    - U-turn
    - Superpower/Brick Break
    Classic Banded Scizor. Hit as hard as possible is the goal of this bug, and this is a job it can do quite well. U-Turn deserves a mention here because of Magneone's Volt Switch, giving me a small VoltTurn engine. Superpower isn't my favorite move, but the coverage it gives is amazing, being needed here. Bullet Punch helps a lot the lack of speed of the team, making possible to kill fast sweepers.


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    Lucario (F) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Inner Focus
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Swords Dance
    - Close Combat
    - ExtremeSpeed
    - Earthquake/Crunch
    Lucario is here to cover the slowness present in this team. Even Jirachi and Cobalion bein faster than the aura pokemon, thei can't hit as hard as Lucario without some setup. With Life Orb and 350 Atk Extremespeed can revenge kill most pokemon, and after a single Swords Dance it can sweep with it. Earthquake is for coverage and accuracy, but Crunch hit hard anything Close Combat can't, so I'm not sure which one is the ideal move. Even not having astonishing Spd, it has enough to outrun any threat to the team and kill it with Combat.


    Former Members
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    Ferrothorn (F) @ Rocky Helmet Trait: Iron Barbs
    EVs: 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SDef
    Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
    - Spikes
    - Leech Seed
    - Power Whip
    - Thunder Wave
    Water is a big threat to the team due to the lack of giving enough damage to get rid of them. Ferrothorn is a natural answer to them since it has good defensive stats at the same time it has a nice Atk. Since I like to run Rocky Helmet here to drain even more damage feom the opponent it needed some recovery move found in Leech Seed. And as most of you know, Ferrothorn forces a lot of switchs, giving me free turns to spam Spikes and paralysis in the opposing team. I had to run Power Whip here because it is my main response to waters and grounds.
    Maybe it is me, but Ferrothorn isn't as useful as it should be. So, ended being swapped.

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    Steelix (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SDef
    Sassy Nature (+SDef, -Spd)
    - Curse
    - Earthquake
    - Gyro Ball
    - Dragon Tail
    The best physical wall, by far, is Skarmory. But I wanted to test something different here, and the second option would be Cobalion, but I prefer to stay with Lucario as the Fight/Stell. this way, this role ended falling in Steelix. Even without any Def investment it reaches astonishing 436 Def, even higher than standard defensive Skarmory. Curse make this iron snake even harder to deal with physical moves, at the same time it makes Gyro Ball even deadlier. Earthquake is nice in almost any pokemon with STAB, and here it's no different. Dragon Tail is good to phaze, since, thanks to Curse, Steelix isn't used to hit first.
    This guy wasn't totally bad, having overall better defensive status than Skarmory. Using it showed me the main reason Skarmory is preferred here: the flying type. Keeping the weakness to both fight and ground wasn't helping me, even with the extra immunity to eletric moves.





    Both Sun and Rain can give this team hard times because most of their moves do at least neutral damage. Without Steelix my team got vulnerable to electric moves again, and it isn't something I appreciate. And the last major issue here is the weakness to status problems, specially burn, since steels lacks a dedicated Cleric, being Jirachi the closest to one, and without Heal Bell.


    Other Challenges:
    Psychic
  2. TransparentOpacity

    TransparentOpacity

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    Skarmory pretty much outclasses Steelix in every way, but since you don't wan't to, how about Bronzong instead? He isn't weak to fighting, gives you a ground resistance (or fire if you want). You can use him for support, I noticed you don't have any stealth rocks, or you could try a choice band/choice specs set. Max HP and max Atk or SpA. Those actually worked pretty well for me, it catches everyone by surprise because they don't expect him to be hitting so hard. Steelix just doesn't look like it's doing much for you since you already have Ferrothorn.

    You also complain about rain, so why not try fitting Empoleon in somewhere? He stops pretty much every swift swimmer out there and can get a boost from rain too. You might even want to run rain dance on it yourself, to give your team a fire resistance.
  3. shiranai

    shiranai

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    Thanks for the feedback. And, indeed, I Bronzorg can do better job here, even though Ill miss the eletric immunity. Ill test it.

    Empoleon is something good too, but the main issue is that my team is already vulnerable to eletric attacks even without any weakness to it. Ill rhink about it too.
  4. MedicineBalls

    MedicineBalls

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    I am also in the process of making a steel team.

    One thing I'm considering is the weakness to fire which is why I feel Empoleon makes a wise choice. Most dragons can learn Fire Blast which is why Ice Beam is an obvious choice. Surf or Hydro Pump hits those unexpected fire types with the latter being a very powerful STAB. Grass Knot takes care of bulky waters. Not sure about the exact stats but with a Modest nature and EV investment in speed and special attack, Empoleon becomes a dangerous Pokemon after 1 or 2 Agility boosts.

    Skarmory is also a must on my team due to entry hazards, whirlwind, and Roost in combination with Bravebird. Everytime you recover, Sturdy is practically like a Focus Sash ensuring 1 or 2 layers of Spikes. Skarmory can be very annoying if it's not taken out swiftly and also hits hard with proper EV investment.

    Entry hazards don't do much damage to steel Pokemon but damage taken from spikes or stealth rock can be the difference in a win or a loss if you want to get technical. Which brings me to my next point. You don't have a rapid spinner. Excadrill is immune to both Thunder Wave and Toxic, and resists Stealth Rock as well. So you can spin without taking any damage. This is precisely why I've chosen Excadrill. He has rapid spin support and also can do ALOT of damage with Swords Dance. If you can some how finagle an 8 turn Sandstorm and switch in Excadrill while it's up, speed or power gets boosted and gives you a chance to set up for a sweep with Earthquake and Rock Slide/Shadow Claw depending on what your team needs. Sandstorm support also doesn't hurt steels and the extra damage for 8 turns, in exchange for 1 turn, can be helpful if you execute it and fit it in a moveslot properly.

    Magnezone is also a must due to the typing. But mine has more of a support role running light clay/dual screens. Hidden power fire and thunderbolt/volt switch depending on my mood.

    Bronzong is also an interesting Pokemon with only 1 weakness. Levitate cancels out Earthquake making fire his only weakness. Trick room/gyro ball/earthquake/hypnosis is my set.

    My steel team has been an ongoing project for the past year. I have about 13 different Pokemon I've made and at this point it's really just a matter of re-making 2 or 3 more and aligning 6 so they compliment each other and my resistances are accounted for.

    I'd also consider running Brick Break on Scizor just to break a screen. 4 out of your 6 Pokemon are physical attackers. If you run into a dual screener you will be stalled.
  5. MedicineBalls

    MedicineBalls

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    I'm also not a fan of legendaries but I can see why Heatran is an obvious choice for a steel team.
  6. shiranai

    shiranai

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    Very well, let's go by parts here.

    Empoleon, indeed, is a must. I found it during my last tests with it. But I was running a special defensive, so it could use Rain Dance and, at the same time it boosted the avarage power of Scald, it weaken fire moves. I really like the more offensive build with Agility, but I think running only Heatran to take special hits isn't a nice idea, mainly because it has Air Ballon. Also, the Agility build really miss the Petaya Berry...

    I really intended to not run Skarmory since this team is quite vulnerable to eletric moves, even without both Empoleon and Skarmory. But now I'm testing both but with no Ferrothorn, leaving only Magnezone to take these hits. It isn't doing bad at all, but some stronger eletric moves scares me a lot.

    Unfortunatelly, as far as I know, Excadrill is considered an Uber in Smogon community, and since this team is for OU use, the only Spinner I can run is Forretress, what would make my team even more threatened by fire and eletric moves, and making opposing Magnezone even more scarier. I'm not a huge fan of weather, but I'll stick first in Rain Dance to lower fire damages before trying Sandstorm here.

    Other common issue for me is Gliscor and Landorus. Without a Specs in it I don't know if I could handle them, nor the other common switches. For real, the move I use the most here is Flash Cannon since most people thinks it will use a Thunderbolt/Volt Switch, hitting almost everything hard enough to 2HKO with it. Also, the other amazing trait a Specs Magnezone have is the power to 2HKO a Ferrothorn in the rain with HP Fire and killing Dragonite with a single Thunderbolt after a Stealth Rock damage. I may test a different build, but I got too used to the ridiculous power this one have.

    Bronzorng is ok too. I tested it, didn't liked very much, but maybe it happened because my team with it got too much defensive. If I could add it again in my team Empoleon could run the Agility set more effectively, since I'll have my special wall role in Bronzonrg instead.

    Brick Break could be an option, but more because most times I can't afford the status drop of Superpower, than problems screens could gave me. As you may know, there are enough walls that can fit here and use the turns with the screen to set up itself, not being a huge problem for me.



    I'm also having a lot of problems with statuses, specially burn. Any idea in what I could do to avoid it?
  7. shiranai

    shiranai

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    bumping. still having the same problems here...
  8. N hehe

    N hehe

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    this team seems pretty solid, but there are some things I'd like to say.

    while it may seem that Rain Dancer Empoleon + Heatran solve your Fire weakness, that's not true. you see, like any other Steel type, Empoleon has weakness to Fighting and Ground types. this means that Fire isn't your only problem. CB Terrakion can OHKO and 2HKO every pokémon of your team, and the only true counter you have to it is Bullet Punch Scizor. if it's dead, gg. I'd recommend using Physically Defensive Jirachi over Empoleon. this is not a common set at all, but you could make it only a support pokémon with Iron Head to kill Terra, Wish to heal Heatran (since preserving him is a must), Rain Dance (since it's probably the only reason you're running Empoleon) and a filler move here. Jirachi would help the Fire weakness with Rain Dance while also providing Heatran (and the team) the needed recovery, which is essencial. He would also be a second check to Band Terra, which is awesome.

    if you add Jirachi, the only pokémon I can see severely threatning this team is Smack Down Landorus. but the most common set is Choice Scarf, so I don't see much reason to really worry about him atm.

    nice team, conggrats :)
  9. shiranai

    shiranai

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    hum... seems a nice chage here. I wanted to run a psychic/steel here because of exactly what you said... I'll try this out.

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