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The Most Attractive Team You've Ever Seen

Discussion in 'Past Gen Teams' started by BuddyBlueBomber, Apr 14, 2010.

  1. BuddyBlueBomber

    BuddyBlueBomber

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2010
    Messages:
    759
    At First Glance
    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]


    The Story Behind the Team
    Every day on Shoddy it's LO Scizor this, and Scarfgon that, and Scarftar whichever and when. Sure, they're good, but it's all just textbook know how. What we need is a little more spice in our movepools. That is exactly why I've made this team, which is based around one concept. Attract. Attract, you say? That move is useless! But oh-ho-ho I say back. Attract may be a little gimmicky, but i've seen it assure the win many times before, considering almost everyone doesn't bother to change their gender off of male. Of coarse, considering non-gender and legendarys are always a factor, Attract it not always an option, but that hardly hinders this team! Well I'm sure this concept has been done before, but I decided to put a stab at it anyways.

    The Method Behind My Madness
    I've gotten so tired of standard sets, that I almost find that it's my obligation to play out of the ordinary, which is why I created this team (As you already know). But what you probably did not know (Because I haven't told you yet), is that this team wasn't always based around Attract. Originally, the this team was just some commonly used Pokemon that had different movepools from the norm. Salamence was the first to feature Attract, and after I saw how effective it was, spread it out to the majority of my team. Now, here's where it all started.

    I wanted a lead that was out of the ordinary, yet very effective. My original candidate was Mamoswine, but he did not prove to be of much use outside of his standard moves, so my attention turned to Gyarados. As a major powerhouse in OU, Gyarados seemed like the perfect unorthodox lead to provide both support and physical strength.
    [​IMG]
    My attention then set upon another pokemon; Gengar. Most people use Gengar as a special sweeper and Spin blocker, but I looked beyond that, and spotted his amazing use as a support/sweeper mix. Access to great Speed, Hypnosis, and Confuse Ray was all I needed to give him a slot as an effective member of the team. Also, Gengar is wonderful at soaking up Explosions which constantly bombard my lead, Gyarados.
    [​IMG][​IMG]
    Gyarados is bound to attract a great deal of Electric attacks, so i needed someone who could soak them up with ease, as well as provide useful offensive and status support. The best pokemon for the job were Jolteon or Electivire. I chose Jolteon for her superior Speed and versatility, and because Electivire is only really useful after Motor Drive is activated (Sorry, Electivire ):).
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Gliscor wasn't always a part of the team, but she eventually muscled her way in after proving to be an effective Attract user and boasting the stats to do the job. Stealth Rocks are also a great addition to the team, and no one can doubt the power of STAB Earthquakes and Electric/Ground immunities.
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Salamence had always been a great addition to the team, making the best use of Attract and setting up easily for the kill. In fact, the entire team was based around her effectiveness. Being the bulkiest physical wall for any Dragon type in OU on the switch in, the possibility for Salamence to come in and get his Dragon Dances up was extremely evident. She still proves to be the main physical powerhouse of the team.
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Looking the the last niche in my team, my eyes skimmed across Empoleon. Well, you can pretty much expect him to be running SubPetaya or something similar, even though he has a good Attack stat. With that in mind, I decided to take advantage of Aqua Jet's priority and STAB to hand-craft a physical based Empoleon which could rip through teams apart late game.
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    After some time, Empoleon proved to be a sort of weak link in the team, being very in-versatile with only one way of attacking the opponent. With the suggestion of Heatran, my lip curved in a smile to see how much she proved to be an asset to the team. Setting up on a plentiful amount of pokemon and soaking up Fire type attacks, as well as being an immediate threat has made Heatran the choice for this team in place of Empoleon.
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Weakness/Resistance Chart
    [​IMG]


    Changes from the original team have been colored Brown-ish

    Gyarados
    [​IMG]
    Gender: Male
    @Lum Berry
    Ability: Intimidate
    Nature: Impish
    EVs: 156HP/72 Attack/96 Defence/184 Speed
    -Taunt
    -Dragon Dance
    -Waterfall
    -Stone Edge
    Gyarados, something you might not expect so much as a lead. Thunder Wave use to be in place of Taunt, but after some testing of the move, I've found that it is a superior tactic most of the time. Thunder Wave will be missed, but that's okay, because Taunts are very useful. Leads who like to pull off Stealth Rock which are slower than Gyarados will be disgruntled by the fact that Taunt is present, and since that's the purpose of most leads, they switch to a different pokemon and try to counter. Gyarados also laughs at sleeper leads. lol. Can you say free Dragon Dance? Anyways, Taunt is also very useful late game against stalling pokemon, making them flop around helplessly with their usually pitiful offenses and force a switch. More Dragon Dances! With a little more work on EVs, Gyarados not only takes less damage from physical attacks, but deals more damage as well! All this while still being nice and fast at what he does. Explosion from Azelf? Not a problem. Bullet Punch from Metagross getting you down? Not with Gyarados here! An Impish nature assists this by increases his Defence(Along with Intimidate), while lowering his easily forgettable Special Attack, as to keep him nice and bulky. Waterfall is his best move, which gets STAB, good neutral coverage, and a chance to get some flinches in there. Stone Edge provides good coverage with Waterfall, and hits many top threats in OU like Salamence and other Gyarados right out of the park. When it hits.

    Against the top 10 leads of March, 2010

    1. Azelf: Considering Azelf is faster than Gyarados, Taunt and Stealth Rock are used without fear. This means it's time to Waterfall it up. Just one Waterfall deals over 50% damage, and when you're dealing with Azelf, we all know what that means. Whoop! Switching to Gengar easily soaks up the Explosion and snags in a free kill.

    2. Swampert: Thankfully, Gyarados is faster than this guy. Taunt means that neither Stealth Rock nor Roar can be used, which means it's time to get a free Dragon Dance or two. Fantastic!

    3. Metagross: Again, Gyarados takes the lead and taunts to prevent Stealth Rock from forming. At this point, Metagross leads start to panic and flail around helplessly for some reason, making their Explosion trigger very happy. Switching to Gengar soaks this up as well, and if it's a Thunderpunch instead or something, then...oh well. Gengar understands, I'm sure.

    4. Aerodactyl: There's no stopping this thing, unfortunately. Waterfall is the best bet, dealing 99% damage(stupid Focus Sash). Gyarados has to bite the bullet and take the chance of getting hit by Stone Edge or Rock Slide, but he's a trooper and will get the kill

    5. Jirachi: Well, lead Jirachi almost always Tricks a Choice Scarf to the opponent, and Gyarados is no exception. This means that Waterfall is in action, and taking the 80/0 physical defence right from the strategy dex, Waterfall deals 30%-36% damage. Not too good, but I'd rather take a choice scarf on Gyarados than any other member of the team. 3HKO isn't too bad for a disadvantageous situation, though.

    6. Infernape: Well, as a lead, Infernape always pulls off a Fake Out on Gyarados. This deals pretty minimal damage, and the next turn is spent setting up Dragon Dances. Infernape isn't stupid enough to stay in, so that's a free Dragon Dance. Also nifty.

    7. Roserade: This is where Lum Berry really shines. Roserade tries to Sleep Seed Gyarados, in which the berry kicks in right when I'm using Taunt. This leaves Roserade useless, and gives a free turn of Dragon Dance as they switch out. Whoo!

    8. Tyranitar: You know, I've never actually fought a lead Tyranitar. I would assume that it fills a more anti-lead role, and includes Stone Edge, as well as Earthquake, Pursuit, and some other move. With that in mind, an auto Gliscor switch would be most preferable. Gliscor takes 36%-43% damage from a cookie cutter Tyranitar lead on the switch, which Leftovers takes care of pretty well. With Sand Veil in effect, Stone Edge has a 60% accuracy, giving plenty of time to set up Stealth Rocks and hit back with STAB super effective Earthquake. Not too shabby. Ice Fang would probably ruin this strategy, though, if it carries it.

    9. Ninjask: First thing any Ninjask tries to do is either Protect or Substitute. Protect is more likely, so Dragon Dance is the best option first up. After that, either Substitute or Swords Dance will be coming up, and that means it's Taunt time! After a Taunt, Ninjask's set up has been completely destroyed, and that means it'll force a switch. Two free Dragon Dances? Yes, please!

    10. Gliscor: What any Gliscor tries to do as a lead is either use Taunt or Stealth Rocks. Hopefully, it's the former, as Waterfall has the best use here from being slower than Gliscor. Waterfall 2HKOs max HP Gliscor, so some good damage is guaranteed against it.

    Against other top leads:

    - Machamp:Since most anti-lead Machamps don't carry Thunderpunch, Gyarados is pretty safe to stay in. Waterfall 2HKOs any Machamp that doesn't have Defence EVs invested after a Dragon Dance, and Gyarados resists Dynamic Punch on top of Intimidate and Lum Berry. Overall, Machamp is not a problem.

    Gengar
    [​IMG]
    Gender: Male
    @Leftovers
    Ability: Levitate
    Nature: Timid
    EVs: 4 HP/252 Speed/252 Special Attack
    -Hypnosis
    -Confuse Ray
    -Focus Blast
    -Shadow Ball
    How many of you feel annoyed at this set just by looking at it? Well, Gengar's the name, and status' is his game. Leftovers gives Gengar some survivability, taking any chance he gets(Which is a lot of chances, mind you) to heal off any damage that has been done, as well as nullify those annoying Sandstorms and Hails. The EV spread is made to give an absolute max of speed, which is a must for this set, and an almost equal attention to Special Attack, to fire off quick and powerful attacks whenever needed. Timid nature increases that Speed stat to a nice 350, outrunning the likes of those such as Modest Gengar, non-scarf Rotom, Celebi, and many other threats. Hypnosis and Confuse Ray can shut down or force switch almost any pokemon out there. I especially like setting a pokemon to sleep and use Confuse Ray afterwords, putting them in a "Damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation, throwing a monkey wrench in any plans to either switch or tough it out. Energy Ball had its uses, but Focus Blast just takes the cake. Packing a massive 120 base power off of a great Special Attack means that no steel pokemon stands a chance against this monster. Unless it misses. Which might as well be about 50% of the time. Shadow Ball seals it up by quickly dispatching of Ghost types, and provides a powerful STAB move.

    Jolteon
    [​IMG]
    Gender: Female
    @Life Orb
    Ability: Volt Absorb
    Nature: Timid
    EVs: 4 HP/252 Speed/252 Special Attack
    -Thunderbolt
    -Shadow Ball
    -Thunder Wave
    -Attract
    Jolteon is an awesome special powerhouse. With Life Orb attached, its power is boosted to an even larger amount, pulling off the possibility of sweeping any team that is either weakened or isn't ready. Volt Absorb lets it switch in on any Electric attack, at which Gyarados is unmatched, opening up the offense for Jolteon(as well as a chance to provide some healing). Timid nature makes sure that its speed is the best it can be, as to outrun some other speedy foes who may want to take a shot at KOing the fragile Jolteon. Thunderbolt provides a powerful STAB, and Shadow Ball gets OHKOs on any ghost pokemon(Except maybe Dusknoir). Ever wonder where that Thunder Wave went from poor Gyarados? Well, Jolteon here thought it was too good to pass up, and gave up Hidden Power to bolster this useful status move! Thunder Wave works great with this team, making any user of Attract that moch more hax-worthy. I'm sure even Gyarados is proud. Attract can give a new breath of life to any situation that may seem unfavorable. Granted, it's not a very reliable solution, but it can work miracles. (Note: Use of Thunder Wave along with Attract will increase chances of miracles. No joke.)

    Gliscor
    [​IMG]
    Gender: Female
    @Leftovers
    Ability: Sand Veil
    Nature: Jolly
    EVs:252 HP/252 Speed/4 Defence
    -Stealth Rock
    -Stone Edge
    -Earthquake
    -Attract
    Gliscor makes excellent use of its hearty defences and reasonable attack with this set. Leftovers lets it heal off damage every turn, which works great when used with Attract, providing that sweet 50% chance of immobilization. The ability Sand Veil also helps against sandstorm teams, as the extra evasion is greatly appreciated. EVs allow for both tanking and quick attacks, and a Jolly nature helps keep that speed to fire off Attracts and such whenever it pleases. Just before I was about to backhand Gliscor like a red-headed stepchild for not doing as good as the rest of the team, Stealth Rock was suggested. With this, Gliscor finally found a useful purpose in life other than stalling, at least until Stealth Rock gets nerfed somehow. No more worries from choiced Flying, Ice, Bug, or Fire types for me! Roost had found a good place in this set, but with only one attacking move, Gliscor still didn't cut the deal. With Stone Edge, Gliscor is able to hit Flying types that resist Earthquake for super effective damage, and doesn't make Gliscor an easy target to those who had completely avoided it before. Earthquake is also commonplace on Gliscor, combining excellant coverage, STAB, base attack power and Attack into one powerful package of seismic fury. This, though, leaves a gaping weakness in Gliscor to anything with the Flying type or levitate ability, where he has a real trouble dealing with. But that, of coarse, is where the other team members come in and say hi.

    Salamence
    [​IMG]
    Gender: Female
    @Leftovers
    Ability: Intimidate
    Nature: Careful
    EVs: 252 HP/ 180 Defence/ 78 Special Defence
    -Attract
    -Dragon Dance
    -Dragon Claw
    -Earthquake (Again!)
    Move over Specsmence and Mixmence, because we've got another Salamence set around. I call it the Sexymence set. First off, I must say that this is probably the best user of Attract that will ever grace the Standard metagame. As you can see, I've built this Salamence to be very tankish, as to be able to set up very easily on pretty much anything not carrying ice type moves. Leftovers let it heal off any damage it takes through Attract(as well as from Stealth Rock), which adds up to a pretty reliable healing source outside of Sandstorm and Hail. With a super beefy Defence spread on EVs, Salamence can come in and laugh at any physical attacker that's not up to par, all the while using his nifty Dragon resistances to take care of the most common special attacks out there (Such as Flamethrower and Surf and whatnot). Speaking of which, Intimidate also helps defensively, as well as a Careful nature to help increase that Special Defence and round off its overall defences. The strategy to this set is simple, but extremely deadly. Salamence comes in and uses Attract on the opponent, who usually just goes "wtf?" and decides to tough it out. Wrong answer. This lets Salamence use Dragon Dance almost as much times as he wants, as Attract will give an occasional free turn for it. Such a bulky build lets Salamence take several hits before deciding to go on the offensive and start sweeping like a mo' fo'. Even if the opponent decides to switch, one Dragon Dance still packs quite the punch as most of you know. Dragon Claw is preferred over Outrage, as the ability to use Attract or switch to Earthquake, is paramount in this set. STAB Dragon Claw is nothing to be disappointed in however, and will still OHKO anything with enough Dragon Dances. Testing on the former Earthquake has proven even more successful than the replacement of Fire Fang. Why, you say? Well, I must not have done good enough, of coarse. Everyone makes mistakes. Anyways, with its excellent coverage, especially against Steel types that resist Dragon Claw, Earthquake is here to stay and dominate.

    Heatran
    (Newcomer!)
    [​IMG]
    Gender: Female
    @Leftovers
    Nature: Timid
    Ability: Flash Fire
    EVs: 242 Special Attack/252 Speed/ 4 HP
    -Attract
    -Substitute
    -Lava Plume
    -Earth Power
    Empoleon will surely be missed, but if anyone could fill his place it would have to be Heatran. With reasonable defences, outstanding Special Attack, and being the only legendary with a gender, Heatran makes great use of the team's theme of Attract. The EVs are pretty straight forward, focusing on speed and damage to help maximize its effectiveness. When combined with substitute, Heatran can set up on a multitude of Pokemon, hiding behind its precious little doll while Attracting from safety. This also gives many opportunities for free moves, which is greatly appreciated to keep the Attracts and Substitutes strong. Lava Plume lets Heatran hit with a powerful STAB attack, punishing any Pokemon that doesn't resist it (Except Blissey), as well as providing a 30% chance to burn. With Attract and Substitute up, this gives plenty of chances to ruin the day of many Pokemon, especially ones who rely on physical attacks, as the burn damage adds up at an extremely fast rate. Earth Power gets great coverage in OU, hitting every Pokemon, when combined with Lava Plume, for non-resisted damage (Except for Salamence, Dragonite, and Gyarados, who are easily dealt with by other members of the team). The best thing though, at a non-competitive view, is seeing that ugly mug use its charm to hinder the opponent. Priceless.

    Previous Team Members:

    Empoleon
    Show Hide
    [​IMG]
    Gender: Male
    @Liechi Berry
    Nature: Adamant
    Ability: Torrent
    EVs: 252 HP/252 Attack/ 4 Defence
    -Swords Dance
    -Substitute
    -Aqua Jet
    -Attract
    Empoleon is commonly perceived as one who abuses special attacks, and maybe agility behind a substitute as well. With closer look, however, we see that Empoleon's often forgotten Attack stat isn't actually too bad, and has access to a STAB priority move to boot. Well that's exactly what this set works on. Empoleon's typing gives it superb resistances(Unfortunately, not to Ground) which lets Empoleon get a good chance at setting up. With access to Swords Dance, Empoleon makes use of an Adamant nature and offensively based EVs to maximize the power of Aqua Jet, which becomes almost scary in the damage potential it carries. Liechi Berry makes sure that if there isn't a +6 attack stat already, that there's going to be a little more kick to Aqua Jet than normal. Substitute lets Empoleon be not afraid of those annoying (pseudo)status inducers, as well as getting several Swords Dances up against the right pokemon. The chance of a free attack if the Substitute doesn't break makes me feel warm and fuzzy inside. The last slot doesn't really serve a large purpose at all in this set, so Attract fits very well to set up against the likes of Blissey, who can deal almost no damage and can take Thunder Waves pretty easily with a priority move. As you've probably noticed already, this set suffers in the likes of hail, which finish off any chance at using Endure in its tracks. Priority moves will also finish off this set with no problem as well. That doesn't stop Empoleon from being an excellent late game sweeper, however, and will crush any team that isn't prepared for Aqua Jet's shocking might.




    Conclusion
    Many people would scoff at the idea of Attract as a competitive play style, but you'd be amazed at what it can accomplish. After a paralyze or sleep has been used on an opponent, setting up a death sweep just becomes all the easier with Attract on board. Of coarse, that doesn't mean that this team will be any more than a gimmick team any time soon. Luck is not reliable enough to be main place, and therefor makes some loses almost imminent. It is, however, both extremely fun and effective. I've enjoyed using this team very much, and is one of my favorites. I hope I've at least opened someone's eyes to the provocative power that Attract holds. And remember, I love compliments, criticism, and suggestions!

    Hopefully I've succeeded at spreading a little love today.
  2. butterfingers158

    butterfingers158

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2009
    Messages:
    95
    You need stealth rock on there somewhere. Gliscor can do it, dump attract or knock off(preferably attract but that seems to be the basis of your team)

    Skarmory and Swampert and big problems for you, Skarmory walls everyone but Jolteon, and Swampert walls everyone but Gengar.

    Try changing Jolteon's HP to Grass, and give Gengar Thunderbolt over Confuse Ray.

    That's about all I can think of with out telling you to ditch attract on everything.

    Oh almost forgot, that Empoleon is easily walled. Maybe try Agility 3 attacks set? Would also help with the Swampert problem.

    Empoleon@ Life Orb
    Modest
    24 HP/252 SpA/232 Spe

    Agility
    Hydro Pump/Surf
    Grass Knot
    Ice Beam.
  3. BuddyBlueBomber

    BuddyBlueBomber

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2010
    Messages:
    759
    However much I don't like the idea of changing the dynamics of my players, I won't dis it until I try it. I'll test out those suggestions and edit this post later when I come to a conclusion on them.

    Edit: So I've tested the sets for a little over an hour now, and this is what I have come to conclude.

    -Using Gligar as a lead: This was probably the least favorable change made to this team. Stealth Rock did little to assist the team, as threats which were hurt by it could already be dealt with easily, and others which weren't hurt much by it(Majority of OU) were already easily taken care of. Gyarados as a lead provided more of an offensive presence, as well as getting off useful Thunder Waves more often and pressuring the opponent with Dragon Dances. Gligar seemed to be pulling a lot less weight then the previous set, and didn't do the job he was made for as well.

    -Changing Confuse Ray to Thunderbolt: The lack of Confuse Ray was sorely missed, and Thunderbolt did nothing except help a little against Skarmory, who could be taken out either way without much threat.

    -Changing HP(Ground) to HP(Grass): The coverage given by Grass type Hidden Power was severely less effective when used on this set, as I couldn't really use it at all. Ground at least gave me super effective on the plethora of Steel types in OU along with its great type coverage. Jolteon never got the chance to switch into Swampert due to its fragility either way, so it was borderline useless. Gengar could easily be used, as Swampert is really only used as a lead either way.

    -Using agility+3 attack Empoleon: This one was the most acceptable out of all the suggestions, easily setting up and dishing out damage. Unfortunately, it did the exact same thing as the other set. I found myself wishing constantly that I had a priority move again, and it had much less power than the physical variant. It did, though, work better against more pokemon. It didn't have much a problem before, either way, since its job was to be a late game sweeper where its threats would have most likely have been dealt with anyways. It also did nothing against that whore of a Blissey, who walked all over it for being a special attacker.

    Unfortunately, none of the suggestions proved very useful, but I do thank you for your time and effort to help my team. And everyone else out there, I always love Compliments, criticism, and suggestions! I hope to get a lot more comments for this team soon.
  4. cbleach

    cbleach

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2010
    Messages:
    18
    I like to see teams that are a bit different out there and this use of attract fits that bill. However I don't know about it being on Empoleon. I'm not saying switch the whole set, just put a second attack on there. Without it you are screwed against Vappy, Cune and one or two other bulky pokes.

    Return is an option as Water/Normal gets decent coverage and it's a fairly strong but kinda naff really. Ground/Water is also decent (walled by Lati though) so EQ could be used. And Avalanche could work but Water/Ice is still walled by Cune. Maybe drop Endure as well for a third move. If you did that though you may be better off dropping Liechi for Lefties or LO.

    Sorry if I wasn't much help, I'm not very good at rating ^^;
  5. sce4

    sce4

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2010
    Messages:
    99
    First of all Taunt is a much better option over Thunder Wave. It means you can, for the most part, ignore the two stealth rock weaknesses. It also pairs excellently with Lum berry as sleeping leads can be taunted into uselessness.

    Substitute is probably more useful than endure as you won't be left susceptible to faster priority (CB Scizor's Bullet Punch and Max+ Atk Lucario's Extremespeed fail to KO you at 25%) and endure effectively means you'll be easy prey for priority. Substitute can also ward off bulky waters as they cannot touch you without HP electric. It also means you can bluff a SubPetaya. I'd also consider avalanche and hope with the lackluster speed that damage will eventually lead to Torrent/Leichi Berry range.
  6. BuddyBlueBomber

    BuddyBlueBomber

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2010
    Messages:
    759
    @FlashWing: The main reason that I don't have an attacking option on Empoleon is that after setting up against an opponent, a large amount of HP has been shaved off of it. Combined with its abysmal base Speed stat, that means he wont be outrunning much anyways, and might as well just use an Aqua Jet anyways. I'm always up for trying new things though, so I might as well put a second attack in place of Attract and test it out.

    @sce4: I always liked the idea of Thunder Wave because it was different from other sets, and worked very well when combined with Attract for other members of the team. Taunt is a good option, however, so I will try and see what it'll do for me.
    Substitute never felt like it could help a non-Agility Empoleon, since moves would break away the substitute and leave no room to put in Swords Dances. The basis around him is to try and make his priority the most powerful it can be, and without those boosts, it just doesn't do the job. Despite this, I'll still give it a chance to work on some test runs. Post will be updated after I have come to a reasonable conclusion about them, and thank you everyone for the input!

    Edit: @Flashwing: So after replacing Attract with Return, I found that, well, it never hit anything. Empoleon just didn't have the speed to pull off any Returns before kicking the bucket, so I just ended up using Aqua Jet most of the time anyways. I also found myself missing the Attract for Female pokemon (Especially Blissy) So unfortunately, I've dismissed the idea of placing a second attacking option on Empoleon.

    @sce4: Well after using Taunt, I found that it provided some support which Thunder Wave just couldn't live up to. Like you said, it works great with Lum Berry, and it's also useful in the late game. With that in mind, I've finally made my first change to my team, replacing Thunder Wave for Taunt. :3

    Now, substitute for Empoleon was another good idea. It blocked status conditions and cushioned hits a little. However, I found myself lacking the time to pull off many Swords Dances in return. With Swords Dance not pulling as much weight as it use to, Aqua Jet's power suffered. I have decided to keep Endure over Substitute, as it gives Empoleon more of a chance to sweep the enemy team, which is the purpose of this set.

    Thank you two for the suggestions, I really appreciate it!
  7. BuddyBlueBomber

    BuddyBlueBomber

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2010
    Messages:
    759
    @SonicxLover: Well, replacing Jolteon as the lead certainly wasn't bad, but I didn't like it as much as having Gyarados as the lead. Jolteon just didn't have enough chances to pull off offensive moves like it could do before, and opponents could predict switched from Gyarados to Jolteon since they already knew that it was an option, making Jolteon last less than before.
    However, replacing Hidden Power with Thunder Wave was a very nice chance. It let me keep a paralysis inducer on the team, and also worked great with Attract, making it last long enough to get some kills that it couldn't before. That's good enough in my book, so as my second change to my team, Jolteon takes up Thunder Wave with a gusto.

    I would also like to apologize to everyone who gave suggestions for being so late with my decisions, as I was quite busy the past two days. But I've finally gotten some time up and made some very much appreciated changes to the team. I'm still looking for comments from other people as well, so don't be shy to leave your compliments, criticism, and suggestions, because you know I love them!
  8. Aircraft Cemetery

    Aircraft Cemetery

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2010
    Messages:
    169
    Hello,

    Got your PM, so here I go.
    First of all, I really like this team for its originality. As you said yourself today's metagame is very centered and monotone, so a kind of gimmick (I'd prefer the word 'Creative') team really brings some freshness into the game. Anyway onto the rate.
    I'm not really expierienced in rating Attract teams but nevertheless I will try my best to improve the general performance of your team, but of course without changing the recurring theme of Attract.

    Okay, the first thing you should do is using a more efficient EV spread for your Gyarados. The usual BulkyGyara spread of 156HP, 72Atk, 96Def and 184Spe EVs makes the best use of gyara's offensive and defensive capabilities. Also I would definitely use Stone Edge over Earthquake as it provides way better coverage together with Waterfall. Also your team already features a reliable ground move (Gliscor) but completely lacks a Rock move.

    On your Gengar I would consider Focus Blast over Energy Ball due to several reasons: 1) it provides unresisted coverage together with Shadow Ball, 2) it provides you with a Fighting move, something each team should have in today's steel based metagame and 3) I will suggest HP Grass on Jolteon later so you don't have to be afraid of swampert.
    Hypnosis and Confuse Ray are really annoying and fit your team's theme very well.

    Jolteon: As I already said I would use HP Grass over Shadow Ball as it provides the best possible coverage along with Thunderbolt. (As you see this is not the first time I put forward this argument but as most of your team members only pack two attacking moves I really think coverage is very important) Also Gengar already features a stronger Shadow Ball.
    Attract is obvious here while ThunderWave will greatly help lowering your opponent's chance to actually hit with an attack. Something you should also consider is lefties over LO as you only use two attacking moves now.

    Gliscor: Also annoying as hell. Roost and EQ are a given while Attract also is for your team. The 4th slot is hard to choose. Knock off is an option but I really think you should use Stealth Rock. That move should be on every team as it is probably the best move in the game (along with Spore imho). Gliscor can make good use of it even if it's not your lead.

    Salamence: Scary set indeed. I think however that Mence could make better use of ohysical defense instead of Special Defense, so you might want to shift some EVs. 180 Def EVs give it a huge physical tanking ability especially with Intimidate. 252HP EVs are okay and the rest should either be bumped into Special defense or Speed to outrun neutral base 90s. However I think you will want to put them into SpDef and that's fine. Something you should also consider is Fire Fang over Earthquake. Scizor will absolutely hate that and it will also let you damage Skarmory and Forretress more, who you will have a pretty hard time against anyway. You should test it out.

    Empoleon: When I first looked at this set I thought you wouldn't be able to harm anything with only Aqua Jet as your damaging move. However after running some calcs I noticed that once Vaporeon and other Bulky waters are out of the way this set can become an effective late game sweeper. SD, Aqua Jet and Attract are fine. But for the last slot you should definitely use Substitute over Endure. Your goal is to activate your Berry and Torrent at the same time, and not going down to 1% in particular. Also Sub can work very well together with Attract and can let you get in some more SDs. The EVs are pretty straightforard and should stay as they are.

    I noticed that one of your Attract users is actually male, and I think that's also needed in case you should run into a team that actually cares about genders and/or has many genderless members.

    Cool team so far. Hope I could help. Good luck !
  9. BuddyBlueBomber

    BuddyBlueBomber

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2010
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    759
    Firstly, I just wanted to say that I really appreciate the suggestions as well as making sure to keep the theme of Attract alive, even though you've never had experience in the matter (Which most people don't, anyways)

    -I was never really good at making the most efficient EV spreads, and this one does seem to work well at the job it's made to do, so I shall use it. Using Stone Edge over Earthquake does seem like it has its perks, but Stone Edge's accuracy was always something that shied me away from it. It does have good coverage with Waterfall, though, so I will give it a shot.

    -With Gengar, I'd have to say the same thing with Focus Blast. The accuracy was never loved, but the coverage given is always welcome.

    -Jolteon sure does love her Shadow Ball, and HP(Grass) never really struck me as a very good offensive type move, but does provide enough when paired with Thunderbolt. I'll have to see how it fares in battle.

    -Stealth Rocks can be a make-or-break move in the long run, even if not used with a lead, that's for sure. I was also getting the feel that Gliscor just wasn't pulling his weight enough in the team, so this might just set him into non-disowning territory :P

    -More defence and Fire Fang? Sounds like a nice Scizor counter to me, and after encountering one in almost half the teams out there, is almost paramount. I'll go ahead and give it a try, even though Earthquake has KO'd many a pokemon. Let's hope Fire Fang can live up to that standard.

    -Another advocate for Substitute on Empoleon? Well, if it's suggested again, then there must be something to it. Maybe I just didn't use it right. I can expect to be testing Substitute for a long time for a more definite answer on whether I should use it over Endure or not.

    The specific weakness that an Attract team will always face is the chance of going against opponents who are either the opposite gender to the pokemon you have or have no gender at all. The best solution is to have at least someone who can even partially remedy this problem. Empoleon was the prime candidate as he really only needs three moves to work well at his job, and also lets him set up against Blissey, who naively think they can wall him. Unfortunately, there is no way to solve the problem of non gender pokemon, so the team has to be able to stand by itself without the use of Attract. Something this team does good at as well! It must always be remembered that Attract is a supplement, not an entire strategy.

    Babbled a little bit there, but I feel I've gotten a point across x3 Anyways, I'll start right away on testing these suggestions, and thank you for your time and help!

    Edit: Alright, finally got this done. Please give a not so warm thanks to Shoddy for making my testing run slowly.

    Gyarados: The EV spread is solid, still being good at the job he had before while being a little more efficient as a whole. Earthquake was always a good choice, but it left a large weakness to those who resisted Water and were immune to Ground. With Stone Edge, those same types (Most notably Dragonite, Salamence, and Gyarados) are hit with beefy super effective hit from Stone Edge. The accuracy could be a little more forgiving, though.

    Gengar: Having Focus Blast over Energy Ball has been much more beneficial, hitting a much larger range of pokemon for both neutral and super effective damage. Once again, the accuracy could be better. If only he had Aura Sphere instead.

    Jolteon: Well, this is where I meet my first questionable change. Testing out HP(Grass), I've noticed that I found absolutely no use for it with Jolteon, even though it had better coverage than Shadow Ball. Leftovers, as well, proved to not be as useful as I would have hoped, and instead missed the extra damage which was given by Life Orb. If Jolteon was a bit more bulky, this options probably would have been for the best, but in this case it just doesn't fly.

    Gliscor: We all know that Stealth Rock is probably the most useful move in the metagame considering how broken it is. With that said, Gliscor finally started pulling his weight with this move, in place of Knock Off. Unfortunately, this leaves him no chance to hit flying/levitate opponents. Not like Knock Off did much damage anyways, though.

    Salamence: Like what's been said, the extra investment into Defence sure paid off in the long run. Setting up on physical attackers has never been easier, swiftly putting up Attract and proceeding to Dragon Dance it up to go for the sweep. Fire Fang sure helps a lot more than I thought it would, if only it had a little more base damage to go with it. I'm thinking about piling the rest of the EVs into defence as well to help set up against Scizors, but that's for further testing to be done.

    Empoleon: Well, I've finally solved my Substitute vs. Endure problem. Endure lets me set up on a larger amount of threats, but substitute does so more thoroughly in the long run. This means more Swords Dances, and in effect, more destruction. With that said, I've finally accepted Substitute as a welcome replacement for Endure.

    Thank you for the suggestions, they sure did help a lot in the development of this team! And I hope to hear from the rest of you as well!
  10. BuddyBlueBomber

    BuddyBlueBomber

    Joined:
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    Messages:
    759
    Alright, sorry for the long wait again, but Shoddy has been super laggy lately. Got a lot done, though!

    -Edited above post to Aircraft Cemetery

    -Edited original post to include changes made

    -Added the top 10 leads of March, 2010 and how my lead fares against them. It's even color coded!

    I appreciate all the help that I've gotten, but I'm always up for more suggestions, compliments, and criticism. So speak up, people! I take everyone's word into consideration.
  11. Plus

    Plus freedom of the son
    is a Tutoris a Forum Moderatoris a Tiering Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Team Rater Alumnusis an Artist Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnus
    Professor of B101

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    Hello got the PM.

    Before I begin an indepth rate, I'd like to nitpick a few of your spreads. Run Jolly 80 speed over careful and 78 spdef so you can outspeed adamant lucario. Unless you like being walled by Heatran, I'd really take off the newly put Fire Fang and put back Earthquake in there. EQ is also stronger against steels, and unless you dont want to kill off Lucario in one hit and potentially take a heavy hit, or you simply like getting outsped by LO Dragon Pulse Heatran then run jolly 252 hp 80 speed 176 def with Earthquake, which I assume you had before those changes, and is probably best for this team. Fire Fang for Scizor isn't as important as EQ for Heatran, as you have attract and roost for Scizor, and you can actually beat it out with EQ, as opposed to Heatran where you'd have to watch for explosion, even then you can't even touch it one bit.

    You might want to watch out for Agiligross. Agiligross is genderless so it's immune to your attracts, and can set up on Empoleon relatively easy. Your best response is Gliscor which is shaky at best, and you will also want to watch out for sub cm jirachi which is bulky enough to take hits from your team and can set up on Empoleon, and sweep in return. Empoleon looks pretty nifty but you can put attract on a bunch of stuff, perhaps you can find a good replacement for empoleon which lets genderless or female threats set up.

    Try running Heatran over Empoleon. Heatran, unlike most legendaries, has a gender and can use attract as a result, and is terribly annoying underneath a sub. This will help you deal with Metagross and Jirachi as they have one less thing they can set up on, and it deals pretty well with the non male / female pokemon of OU.

    Heatran (grrl) @ Leftovers
    Timid 252 SpA 252 Spe 4 Def
    Lava Plume / Earth Power / Substitute / Attract

    For Heatran, you can substitute on a switch. Then, you can attract and proceed to Lava Plume spam on threats such as Gyarados and Salamence. Apart from burning really dangerous threats and making love to them, it shouldn't be too hard for Heatran to fit the theme of your team as well as fixing some of your weaknesses.

    Good luck with the team.
  12. BuddyBlueBomber

    BuddyBlueBomber

    Joined:
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    Alright, thanks for coming, and I'll go ahead and cut right to the chase.

    I'm not sure why it's so imperative to outrun Lucario. After switching onto the set, the only move that could really do any harm is Extreme Speed (Considering Fire Fang OHKOs after some DDs), and then the Speed EVs wouldn't matter in the least. I'm pretty sure staying in defences is the best bet, here.

    Being walled by Heatran is a disgruntling truth, as the lack of Earthquake leaves no reliable way to deal with the threat when it comes to Explosion or Dragon Pulse/HP(Ice). Earthquake seems like something I'll be testing again in the future for effectiveness for sure.

    I have noticed a particularly evident weakness to Agilicross, to tell the truth. Just one of those things, I guess. Jirachi is pretty easily dealt with, even with Calm Mind on its hands. Trick is getting in before too many are pulled off, otherwise, it's all downhill from there.

    I've loved that Empoleon set right from the start, bringing it to be with my own two hands and sweeping many a team with its power. However, Heatran does seem like a great replacement to go for it, covering a good amount of pokemon while backing up some serious power. I'll make sure to give it a try!

    Thank you very much for the suggestions, I'll begin testing them out immediately, and edit this post once I've come to my conclusions.
  13. BuddyBlueBomber

    BuddyBlueBomber

    Joined:
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    I'm sorry that it's taken so long to update, but I was swamped with last minute projects at school. You know how it is, end of the year and all. Anyways, I believe I've more than compensated for this lack of updates for what might just be the final one, the finished product, the one that is completely satisfactory in my eyes. Here's a list of updates that I've just now completed

    -Added Earthquake over Fire Fang on Salamence
    -Added Stone Edge over Roost on Gliscor
    -Added Machamp as a lead against Gyarados
    -Replaced Empoleon with Heatran
    -Added the "The Method To My Madness" section
    -Added a type weakness/resistance chart. Look at all those Earthquake immunities!
    -Added the "Previous Team Members" Section, to keep Empoleon up there for reference.

    I hope you all have enjoyed this RMT as much as I have making it. So much time has been spent towards it, and I am very satisfied on how it has turned out. Thank you everyone who's helped out, I really appreciate it. I'd love to hear how you guys think, so don't be afraid to speak your mind!
  14. Spenstar

    Spenstar

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    Great team, great premise here, but you need to have at least one male attract user if you're running that route. Otherwise female sweepers run all over you. (thank god all pokemon are straight lol)
  15. BuddyBlueBomber

    BuddyBlueBomber

    Joined:
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    You know, I tested both with and without a male user of Attract, and it really does not make much of a difference. Having only one makes it so that you have to counter all female threats with it, which means that it would have to go up against almost every single pokemon in the OU metagame (Since all can be changed to female on a whim. It's just that most don't). Can't really happen with one pokemon. The good thing about this team, though, is that it's able to work on its own without Attract. Attract is a supplement, and won't win games for you if the team is bad otherwise : P

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