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THE most powerful move in the game, bar none.

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by twiglet, Aug 14, 2012.

  1. twiglet

    twiglet

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2012
    Messages:
    4
    Sun boosted, +SAtk, Flash Fire, Choice Specs, STAB, full power Eruption. If god forbid, Heatran gets a Flash Fire boost, it even outdamages Choice Specs Kyogre's Water Spout. Once realising this was the most powerful no-prep move in the game, I endeavoured to make a team around it, but realised that you have to use a negative speed nature to use it - no choice scarf eruptions then. So I use Trick Room. I know most definitely this isn't the best team it could be, and a lot of it is just hodgepodge stuck together (Bronzong for example), but it's definitely my most favourite team (one shotting latias with Eruption makes me squeal) to use, and making it better would make me very happy indeed.

    The team relies upon a couple of things which I almost NEED to happen to succeed.

    1) Winning the weather war is IMPERATIVE
    2) Rapid Spinning (too many fire types)
    3) The removal of Heatran
    4) Entry Hazards (only stealth rocks really needed)

    Anyway, the team:

    [​IMG]
    Ninetales (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Drought
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Hidden Power [Ground]
    - SolarBeam
    - Sunny Day
    - Flamethrower

    Ninetales serves a couple of purposes. First is of course getting up the weather. I don't always bring it in immediately - if the opponent has a Politoed, I normally lead with Bronzong, and if they have something like Infernape or Darmanitan, I do myself a favour and wait on it. Sunny Day is the crux of this set. Activating sun upon Politoed/Tyranitar's entry is really nice as I can live an oncoming Scald and do some decent damage to Politoed. If there's no weather war, Ninetales is my first thing to sacrifice (though its speed can be quite useful sometimes). Hidden Power Ground is to hit the nemesis of this team, Heatran. Any damage is good. Victini's Brick Break does 48% - 56% to 252HP Heatran, so Hidden Power Ground should put Heatran in killing range. Flamethrower is reliable STAB with surprising power after the sun, doing good damage to most things.

    [​IMG]

    Forretress (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 216 HP / 36 Atk / 252 Def / 4 SDef
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
    - Rapid Spin
    - Earthquake
    - Stealth Rock
    - Spikes

    Forretress is also essential. With Victini taking 25% health on switch in and Heatran losing valuable power on his Eruption with every Stealth Rock hit, it's so important to this team for Forretress to Rapid Spin. Putting up Stealth Rock is also vital for a couple of reasons. The first is UNDOUBTEDLY Dragonite, who can screw this team very very very quickly if he has Multiscale. Others include getting the assured OHKO on standard Latios with full scale Eruption, as well as giving me a chance of 2HKOing Blissey as well. Spikes help in a similar way, though aren't as necessary as SR. Earthquake means that I don't give Terrakion a free setup, as well as allowing me to beat Tentacruel in the sun, which is pretty useful. The attack EVs I've put in there are completely arbitrary - if someone could help me there, that would be nice.

    [​IMG]

    Mesprit @ Lagging Tail
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - U-turn
    - Trick Room
    - Sunny Day
    - Healing Wish

    This Mesprit is nothing like any Mesprit that has ever existed. It's defensively EV'd, because the metagame is very physically based, and being able to safely go into things like Landorus is very nice. Lagging Tail means I ALWAYS go last, which at times is a blessing and sometimes infuriating. On the one hand, u-turning last means that my incoming Heatran will take NO damage, which is very useful for eruption. If people use toxic or t-wave, i'd much prefer that on my mesprit than on my victini or heatran. Trick Room allows for Heatran to get on with his job. If Mesprit dies while using it, that's cool - I can then even use Forretress to get up a super quick layer of spikes, or go into Victini to clean up. Sunny Day is for emergencies, when I've lost the weather war and need to clear up the field or even allow for one last hurrah for Victini or Heatran. And Healing Wish is VERY useful, though a lot of the time I don't use it (due to lagging tail ¬_¬) - revitalising my Heatran or my Ninetales (if the weather war has gone badly so far) is often the difference between winning and losing.

    [​IMG]

    Victini @ Life Orb
    Trait: Victory Star
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Def
    IVs: 0 Spe
    Brave Nature (+Atk, -Spd)
    - V-create
    - Fusion Bolt
    - Trick Room
    - Brick Break

    Resistances mean nothing to Victini, who comes in and V-creates everything. Fusion Bolt is for Starmie, Politoed and Jellicent, 2HKOing all of them. Brick Break is for Heatran and Heatran only. Well, Tyranitar too. Victini is fantastic on this team because of its great natural bulk, and then sweepability. It one-shots some variants of Gliscor, for Pete's sake.

    [​IMG]

    Bronzong @ Earth Gem
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SDef
    IVs: 0 Spe
    Sassy Nature (+SDef, -Spd)
    - Explosion
    - Light Screen
    - Earthquake
    - Trick Room

    This Bronzong set is complete pants, but serves a couple of uses. First it is my lead when the opponent has a Politoed. A quick Trick Room/Light Screen combo means that even against Choice Specs politoed, I should always get up my trick room and light screen, before going into Ninetales to really nullify Politoed's attacking ability. Politoed terrifies me, and Bronzong is the only thing I have to take a Hydro Pump from it. I'd guess that Mesprit is 2HKOed, even by Choice Scarf, though that's a guess. Earth Gem earthquake is really surprisingly useful, ensuring an OHKO on Heatran (which thanks to Trick Room happens more often than you'd think), as well as doing a lot of damage to unsuspecting Tentacruels, who can annoy this team. Explosion is for free switches, or for things like Substitutes that absolutely need to be got rid of. I've been thinking about whether Gyro Ball or Hidden Power Ice could be used somewhere here. Gyro Ball would do decent damage to Terrakion and Ttar, while Hidden Power Ice will finally let Bronzong destroy Gliscor, who with Protect and Substitutes can piss this team off ridiculously. Oh, and because Bronzong has surprising longevity, it often provides the final Trick Room required for Heatran to close out the game.

    [​IMG]

    Heatran (F) @ Choice Specs
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SAtk
    IVs: 1 Spe
    Quiet Nature (+SAtk, -Spd)
    - Eruption
    - Flamethrower
    - Earth Power
    - Hidden Power [Ice]

    4 common pokemon can take two full power eruptions - Tyranitar and Politoed (by virtue of changing the weather), and Chansey (Blissey is iffy at best) and opposing Heatran. NOTHING else can take two. Not Kingdra, not Latias, not anything. Latias, who is probably THE best switch in to normal Heatrans in the game, is one shotted with some prior damage. Flamethrower is for late-game. Earth Power is for predicting the Heatran switch. Hidden Power Ice is only for Dragonite, who must have his multiscale broken for it to kill.


    7 Deadly Pokemon -

    Heatran - Heatran is an absolute terror to this team. In fact, if it's an ordinary Lava Plume/Earth Power Heatran and I stupidly give it a Flash Fire boost without having trick room, that's it. Game over. I'd have to sacrifice two of Victini, Forretress or Ninetales to get rid of it. Pair Heatran with a Tyranitar, and the odds are SEVERELY against me.

    Politoed - Weather Wars are naturally against me by virtue of fire typing, and if I lose the Weather War, I lose. Bronzong with Light Screen is pretty useful, and having Sunny Day Ninetales can really help too. A lot of the time, when I have my trick roomed Victini or Heatran in, I predict the switch and use Fusion Bolt or Earth Power just to take it out or do enough damage to cripple it. Thank god Politoed doesn't get any recovery moves. If it did, weather wars wouldn't be wars. It'd be a playground beating.

    Tyranitar - Also annoying. If it has Fire Blast and Crunch, it's IMMENSELY annoying, and I'll have to sacrifice some things to get damage on it. Mesprit and Bronzong can pretty much always live a crunch/fire blast though and get up a trick room, so it's not TOO bad.

    Dragonite - Let's assume dragon dance for a minute. If it comes in on Mesprit or Bronzong, I set up Trick Room. If it comes in on Ninetales, Forretress, Victini or Heatran, I switch immediately to mesprit, who can live any one hit and get up trick room. Sometimes people fear scarf Mesprit with Ice Beam and switch out :heart: Having Stealth Rock is imperative, so I can simply go into Heatran after and Hidden Power Ice him into oblivion.

    Donphan - First it sets up Stealth Rock, which I don't like. Second it can Rapid Spin. Third, it outslows Heatran in Trick Room, which is a real pain ¬_¬

    Reuniclus - if it happens to be a life orb trick room reuniclus with shadow ball, I'm in for a world of pain. Best thing I can do is count the trick room turns, sac something on the last turn, and then erupt with Heatran.

    Gliscor - annoying annoying arsehole at times. If it's sub/protect, then it can sometimes sweep through my team. I trick room up with Mesprit or Bronzong, but oops, I can't break its sub. So I have to do it with Victini and then take an earthquake to the face ¬_¬. Plus with protect, it can wait out some trick room turns and then fuck up the other sweeper.

    Things I've been considering but not really fleshed out

    1) Using Wobbuffet to win the weather war against Politoed?
    2) Using Dugtrio to win the weather war against Ttar, as well as killing Heatran. Plus using stealth rock gives forretress a free spot to run toxic/gyro ball/explosion
    3) Wisher - Blissey, Jirachi, maybe even an anti-rain Vaporeon with Hydration to piss off Politoed :)
    4) Scarfer/Quick Hard hitter, like Terrakion or Landorus.
    5) Volcarona
    6) Virizion has fantastic typing to win a weather war, but not sure what to take out to fit it in. I really need two trick roomers and an entry hazard setter.
    7) Changing the Ninetales set. Maybe Sub+Toxic, or Sub+WoW. Poli and Ttar have such good special defense that even SolarBeam doesn't hurt too much.
    8) Arcanine can do a lot to win the weather war, with Wild Charge and Close Combat, as well as Flare Blitz. It also can have Flash Fire, which can help me against enemy Heatrans or other fire types that want to abuse my sun. Snorlax can do a similar job as well I guess, with Thick Fat, Earthquake, Wild Charge and even Crunch to hit the Latis.


    There are lots of flaws really to this team. There was one time when a nasty plot Ninetales swept half my team, and my team has little in defensive pokemon who can heal themselves, or even standard speedy attackers. Everything from Timid Darmanitan outspeeds my entire team. What I really rely on is the surprise factor - people deciding to sacrifice their Politoed not knowing I have healing wish; people dragon dancing a second time allowing me to trick room up. This isn't a team made for laddering really. It's a team made for personal satisfaction at being able to 2HKO a Blissey with a special move. If you have any suggestions to make this massacre more easy or more full of blood, I'd be very grateful. thanks!
  2. King of Blades

    King of Blades

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2012
    Messages:
    160
    Hello.

    This is a very interesting team, and I think it could work with enough changes.

    First of all, I would suggest getting rid of mesprit and victini for suitable checks to heatran, dragonite, tyranitar, and politoed.

    I would suggest replacing victini with scarf terrakion. This may make you go "wait a sec, I'm running a trick room team and I want a choice scarfed pokemon?" If your team is too reliant on trick room, you will get crushed when trick room isn't up. Choice Scarf terrakion provides your team with a great revenge killer that threatens other terrakion, heatran, dragonite, and many more!

    [​IMG]
    Terrakion @ Choice Scarf
    EVs: 252 Atk, 252 Speed, 4 Sp. Def | Justified | Jolly
    - Stone Edge
    - Close Combat
    - X-Scissor
    - Earthquake / Zen Headbutt

    This is the basic scarf terrakion. It uses close combat and stone edge as STABs. X-Scissor hits psychic types such as reuniclus super effectively. Earthquake can be used for coverage on nidoking, (lawl) toxicroak, jirachi, and metagross. Zen Headbutt can be used for coverage on fighting types.

    Now, I would suggest replacing victini with venusaur. Venusaur can hit very hard after he gets a growth boost as well as having the capability to cripple pokemon with sleep powder.

    [​IMG]
    Venusaur @ Life Orb
    EVs: 252 Sp. Atk, 252 Speed, 4 HP | Timid / Hasty / Mild / Modest | Chlorophyll
    - Giga Drain
    - Hidden Power Fire / Hidden Power Ice
    - Earthquake / Sludge Bomb / Sleep Powder
    - Growth / Sleep Powder

    Venusaur is a very deadly threat under sun and got giga drain from the BW 2 move tutors. Giga Drain is for STAB. Hidden Power Fire gets boosted in the sun and hits steel types as well as other grass types. Hidden Power Ice hits dragons and flying types. Earthquake is mainly used for heatran. If you decide not to use hidden power fire, it is recommend for coverage against steel types. Sludge Bomb can be used for another STAB that hits stuff harder than Giga Drain. If you feel that coverage isn't needed, sleep powder can be used if you didn't use growth in the last slot.


    These pokemon should help your team a lot. I wouldn't be worried about trick room. If you can get heatran in while trick room is up, you will only need 1 trick room to do tons of damage. It is also great against hyper offensive teams and especially fast teams due to the fact that scarf terrakion is now your only pokemon with a base speed of 100 or more under normal circumstances.
  3. twiglet

    twiglet

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2012
    Messages:
    4
    My main fear with using Terrakion and Venusaur is that that would leave me with 2 special sweepers and no physical ones. Now while scarf terrakion does have some balling stats, if I lose it early, i straight up lose to Chansey. I would require the opponent to be incredibly silly with it. (ps. this is with running an initial moveset of giga drain/hp fire/sludge bomb/growth). But even still, a +2 Venusaur earthquake only does around 30% to a chansey.
  4. Episode36

    Episode36

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2012
    Messages:
    135
    I actually think Choice Band Slaking Max Attack Adamant Giga Impact might hit harder, but I don't have calcs. Obviously if super effective, V-Create under sun with Victini's base 100 attack will hit harder, but I think overall, what I just said above is the most powerful move in the game, bar none. Unless I'm mistaken. Sorry that I'm not rating your team. I just take exception when people claim something and it's wrong.
  5. twiglet

    twiglet

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2012
    Messages:
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    I'm pretty sure with Flash Fire, Heatran would beat those two out. I should have clarified.
  6. Episode36

    Episode36

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2012
    Messages:
    135
    Yeah, I meant unboosted (pertaining to stat ups, not items), but of course with boosts certain attacks will do more damage. An 80 attack power attack could be higher if a Pokemon got enough boosts. Also, the likelihood that Sun up Heatran will come in without at least taking Stealth Rock damage is slim to none, even further negating your claim of THE most powerful move.
  7. twiglet

    twiglet

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2012
    Messages:
    4
    My point is that it's the most damaging no-prep move. No need to set up anything. You just switch in, receive a flash fire boost, and do your thing. But regardless, even with just a sun boost, Heatran outdamages Slaking.

    252Atk Choice Band Slaking (+Atk) Giga Impact vs 4HP/0Def Mew (Neutral): 137% - 162% (471 - 555 HP). Guaranteed OHKO.

    252SpAtk Choice Specs Heatran (+SAtk) Eruption vs 4HP/0SpDef Mew (Neutral): 117% - 138% (403 - 475 HP). Guaranteed OHKO.

    Some stats against a Mew. If Heatran has EITHER the sun or Flash Fire, it outdamages Slaking. If it has both, well, Slaking is humbled.

    252SpAtk Choice Specs Flash Fire Heatran (+SAtk) Eruption in Sun vs 4HP/0SpDef Mew (Neutral): 264% - 311% (904 - 1065 HP). Guaranteed OHKO.
  8. Episode36

    Episode36

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2012
    Messages:
    135
    Isn't getting Flash Fire boost prep? Setting up sun is also prep, and easily countered by Politoed etc. Did you factor in SR or Spike damage to Heatran (realities that can't be ignored, even when Forretress is played flawlessly (unfortunately under sun even physical fire moves severely dent or OHKO it, thus reducing the chances at RS)). You're basically saying "oh, if I get Dragonite (for example) two dragon dances, it's the most powerful outrage in OU" when that's pretty unfair to say. I honestly think you should change your title, because you aren't even including Ubers. And even in OU, it's very debatable if that's the most powerful move in the game.
  9. Zacchaeus

    Zacchaeus
    is a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
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    Messages:
    3,259
    I think you should replace Mesprit with Trick Room Reuniclus. You have a lot of Trick Room users and the problem with the ones you have is that 2 of them aren't offensively capable which could work against you in a number of ways. Reuniclus can still set up your valuable Trick Room, but also has threatening Special Attack for your opponent to watch out for

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