1. New to the forums? Check out our Mentorship Program!
    Our mentors will answer your questions and help you become a part of the community!
  2. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.

The Move: Super Fang

Discussion in 'Stark Mountain' started by 1059860, Sep 12, 2009.

  1. Diesel

    Diesel

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2007
    Messages:
    1,945
    Probably should have specified that I meant the bulky Ghosts (Dusknoir, Rotom, Spiritomb).

    Edit: Poorly thought out post on my part, I wasn't thinking at all.
  2. chenman333

    chenman333

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2008
    Messages:
    742
    Yeah except Crobat just Roosts and uh...Sucker Punch doesn't work any more. You would need Shadow Sneak and Sucker Punch to do any good, which is a pretty poor combo.
  3. blasphemy1

    blasphemy1

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2007
    Messages:
    3,688
    Yeah, Crobat can beat Spiritomb with a combination of Taunt + Roost, then U-Turn out when it pleases, or in the case of Brave Bird being one of its moves, just switch out.
  4. Lemmiwinks MkII

    Lemmiwinks MkII

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2007
    Messages:
    1,678
    There is no way in hell that Spiritomb is beating Crobat without a Choice item, which is really easy to play around. Just cycle through Taunt, Brave Bird and Roost until it dies; your standard Spiritomb is powerless to do anything about it. No need to switch out at all.

    Yet another reason why Rotom-A outclasses Spiritomb, I suppose.
  5. doppio

    doppio

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2008
    Messages:
    63
    Why wouldn't a Spiritomb normally switch out? It is helpless as you say. But seeing that a Crobat would not be caught dead without Taunt can be used to its disadvantage! And considering the norm has 80 HP EVs...

    With Wise Glasses Spiritomb wouldn't even need max special attack to do upward of 50% everytime to Crobat with the right Hidden Power. And Crobat risks getting burned or even fainting (mainly if Spiritomb is for some reason also using Sucker Punch).
  6. Lemmiwinks MkII

    Lemmiwinks MkII

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2007
    Messages:
    1,678
    Special attacking 'Tomb would need Psychic to attempt anything like that. Any Hidden Power would be weaker and can easily be Roosted on.
  7. =Jonny=

    =Jonny=

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2008
    Messages:
    1,019
    don't know if this has been mentioned yet but leftovers seems to ruin the super fang + brine combo in many cases. Even S-Rock can fail reducing the foe's HP to 50% sometimes

    If the foe has a 2x resistance to rock. It gets 6.25% of damage on the switch in and assuming that it takes also a super fang its hp is lowered to (100-6.25)/2 = 46.875%. (super fang acts on the current hp) At the end of the turn it gets the leftovers recovery (+6.25%) and its hp at the next turn will be 53,125%.
    Same goes for 4x resistance.

    for 1x resistance, the base power of s-rock is 12.5%. S-rock+ Super Fang on the switch in will lower the hp to (100-12,5)/2 = 43,75%. With the leftovers recovery the foe will have 50% hp exactly at the end of the turn. This means that if it runs a leftovers "magic number" hp it'll be 50%+1hp more precisely thus ruining the power of brine. In this calculation I didn't take into account how the damage of s-rock and s-fang is actually rounded and it's true that not all the mons hold leftovers...

    The combo will only work 100% of the time on the 2x weak to rock pokemon and of course on the 4x's ( there aren't many in the OU environment)
  8. xWOLFYx

    xWOLFYx

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2009
    Messages:
    168
    Sure, that may be the case on paper, but consider that often times Sandstorm is raging and/or prior damage and possible spikes, and it would be easy to SuperFang to less than 50%. Ground and Rock types which are immune to SS are hit Super Effectively by Brine anyway.
  9. Pika25

    Pika25

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2007
    Messages:
    959
    Smeargle is obvious.
  10. Marzbar

    Marzbar

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2009
    Messages:
    132
    Crobat is getting some much deserved love.

    Whirlwind
    Super Fang
    Toxic
    Roost

    To cripple the entire team.
  11. familyguyman

    familyguyman

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2009
    Messages:
    499
    Not Gengar >_>
  12. Marzbar

    Marzbar

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2009
    Messages:
    132
    Yeah you'd have to pack Ghost counters.
  13. Marzbar

    Marzbar

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2009
    Messages:
    132
    Purugly gets hit with Fighting and Ground attacks though. And doesn't get access to something like Roost.
  14. Lemmiwinks MkII

    Lemmiwinks MkII

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2007
    Messages:
    1,678
    Raticate isn't noteworthy at all. It already had Super Fang (the original user from RBY lol), so if it was remotely useful we'd be well used to it by now.
  15. Lou Cypher

    Lou Cypher

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2007
    Messages:
    769
    Purugly is fast enough to pull it off, the real question though is "what is it going to wall?" Crobat has its defenses, a lot more base speed, and a bucketload of handy resistances/immunities. Purugly...doesn't. Any wall can hit Purugly for at least decent damage, meaning Purugly has no ways to outstall a wall perfectly. It could potentionally beat them, sure, but it will be left crippled where Crobat can leave the battlefield after taking out a wall with near full HP.
    Anything with Taunt/Super Fang combo can potentionally screw over a wall. Crobat just seems to be the best user of this combo.
  16. MythTrainerInfinity

    MythTrainerInfinity

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2006
    Messages:
    788
    I didn't think this would pose much of a threat at first...

    I'm not too sure about the practicality of Hypnosis with Crobat if you could just fit something like Brave Bird and U-Turn on the same set.

    Hmm, this is going to be a really big potential headache... I'm just theorymoning here, but... imagine how lethal it will be in conjunction with SpikeStacking... Just by switching in and being neutral to Rock you'd take 68.75% from SR/3 Layers of Spikes/Super Fang. Not even Blissey will be surviving that for long after that. Let's say Crobat has Taunt or something... Stuff like Blissey will assuredly go down or have an easy time dying within the next turn/switch-in or two. Note: Damage from standard SpikeStacking is 37.5% per switch-in.

    If you're netural to Rock and this happens... (SpikeStacking (37.5%)) * Super Fang (2) - Leftovers (6.25%) = 62.5% HP damage dealt... (68.75% without Lefties). 62.5% + (another switch-in) 37.5% = 100% or you're left with 1-3 HP... Yeah you're dead... You will not be able to switch-in again until you've waited a couple turns for Leftovers to work its magic, cleared away the Spikes or if you can pull off a recovery move (good luck doing that against Taunting Crobats). Not to mention if there's weather, Toxic Spike hazards, or other statuses thrown about...

    Crobat could U-Turn on a Spinner if it came in, which would probably be a definate kill on Starmie (which is like the best Spinner in OU) if it came in on a Super Fang. CBTar would likely die from a U-Turn as well before it could pull off a Pursuit or it would be very easy to pick off afterwards...

    I am just glad none of the current OU got this move (maybe Game Freak finally looked at our tier lists and such).

    Then again priority may give some Super Fang users a hard time (Scizor, Lucario, Metagross, Dragonite), but we'll see when we get this to play with in Shoddy.

    If Super Fang has the least impact on the metagame I'm guessing we'll see it every now and then, but nothing too worrisome...

    If it has a great impact on the metagame I'm nominating Stealth Rock for a Suspect again :P
  17. X-Act

    X-Act np: Biffy Clyro - Shock Shock
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Programmer Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis an Administrator Alumnus

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2006
    Messages:
    4,675
    Would I be stating the obvious if I mention that Bibarel learns both Super Fang and Brine... and has actually been able to learn both for ages now... and yet it's NU?
  18. Xia

    Xia aka Lone Gansel
    is a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2007
    Messages:
    2,464
    Bibarel also lacks the defensive capabilities to do much outside of BP teams. 79/60/60 paired with 71 Speed isn't going to result in a whole lot of movement outside of NU, thanks to priority and the non-defensive typing that is Normal/Water.
  19. Ondore

    Ondore

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2007
    Messages:
    356
    Plus, I don't think Bibarel can learn Brine. He's not listed as compatible with it on either Smogon or Bulbapedia.
  20. Scarlet Spyder

    Scarlet Spyder

    Joined:
    May 3, 2007
    Messages:
    771
    I think Hail Stall has much more potential. Nidoqueen and Walrein are both great users of Super Fang. Nidoqueen can set up Toxic Spikes and Stealth Rock too to wear down opponents. Throw in a great priority user like Mamoswine and maybe a Pursuit user for Ghosts and it could be a really effective strategy.
  21. X-Act

    X-Act np: Biffy Clyro - Shock Shock
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Programmer Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis an Administrator Alumnus

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2006
    Messages:
    4,675
    I could have sworn that it does, as I thought of this combo way back when I literally saw Bibarel for the first time on Serebii when D/P wasn't even released in English. Oh well, I was mistaken.
  22. Ordinando

    Ordinando

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2008
    Messages:
    123
    It appears Bibarel is the ONLY water type that can't learn Brine.

    Edit: Ahaha, Hariyama gets it
  23. cyberzero

    cyberzero
    is a CAP Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    May 27, 2008
    Messages:
    1,010
    I'd have to agree that Stallrein in Hail along with Super Fang could really be viable, using a set of Protect/Substitute/Super Fang/Roar or Toxic. Also, Bibarel not learning Brine is really quite surprising.
  24. mtr

    mtr

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2009
    Messages:
    1,773
    I actually don't think Walrein will be helped a lot by Super Fang. Most Gyarados are bulky now, with Leftovers, meaning that they cannot be stalled out by Hail. Many Walrein run Blizzard for the 2HKO after SR (~45% each shot) on Gyarados to ensure that they aren't too bothered by Taunt, which is standard on Gyarados. With Super Fang, Gyarados can begin setting up.

    Granted, Super Fang will be a great general utility move that can hit both Gyarados and Tyranitar, but it doesn't deal with them like Surf, Earthquake, or Blizzard.
  25. Res Ipsa Loquitur

    Res Ipsa Loquitur

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2009
    Messages:
    363
    Interestingly, Bibarel is the only water type based on an animal (the beaver) that is totally exclusive to fresh water. Even the frog, on which the Poliwag series is based, has an extant salt water species: the crab-eating frog. It appears that Game Freak actually took care to give Brine only to ocean-dwelling Pokemon, and it so happens that only Bibarel is excluded.

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)