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The Move: Super Fang

Discussion in 'Stark Mountain' started by 1059860, Sep 12, 2009.

  1. Tarquin

    Tarquin

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    I'm really worried about this. I feel like the metagame will be highly unbalanced with all teams either using the new threats or being forced to pack Tyranitars and Rotoms to combat them. I am also sorry to see that now a defensive team can be made so easily obsolete.

    Hopefully we won't see too much over-centralization, both of this move, and the 5-10 pokemon that use it effectively.
  2. Kalec

    Kalec

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    It's going to be an interesting change, at least. Not like we can really predict what is going to happen to the metagame. We tried that when D/P were on their way, and were way off.
  3. IcyMan28

    IcyMan28

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    D/P was a different case. We were transitioning generations, meaning new moves, pokemon, battle system, items, etc.

    We have a general idea now, so while we can't fully predict, educated guesses are possible.
  4. mtr

    mtr

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    OU won't see much change. Maybe Hail Stall might get a bit more love, but since Hail Stall is so shafted by the prevalence of Scizor, not much will happen. Regarding Crobat, well, the Rotom formes are the initial switch-in to Crobat for stall anyways, so not much will happen there.

    In Ubers, stall will be weakened. Mew can use Super Fang to lure in Giratina/Giratina-O, and then Taunt to block setups, using Roost or Explosion when it's done. I see a stallbreaker Mew set gaining a great deal of use, but stall will survive. I mean, it survived Darkrai. What can be worse than Darkrai for a defensive player? (Or you can go the Gen Emp route and use Primeape...not knocking on you, though :)).

    I have no expertise in UU to comment on it, but UU will definitely be more affected than Ubers.
  5. Tucker

    Tucker

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    Gyrados can't really threaten Walrein unless it's running Taunt + Stone Edge and even then with it can't OHKO w/o Dragon Dance.
  6. Tortferngatr

    Tortferngatr

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    Indeed. Blissey must now watch her back. Softboiled I suspect will become a requirement, even moreso than now. Despite I have yet to download Shoddy.

    However, Super Fang also loses power when you realize that on low-HP hyper-offensive teams, it is outclassed by other moves. I suspect Gengar usage will grow in HO teams, though, because Super Fang still is a heck of a pain to deal with.
  7. mtr

    mtr

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    But many if not most of them do have Taunt. LO-Gyara is gradually being phased out in favor of bulkier variants, a process that's been going on for a while now.
  8. 1059860

    1059860

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    I somehow wouldn't be surprised that Mismagius would be more overused than Gengar due to the availability of Nasty Plot and neutrality to Azelf's Psychic. Although Gengar, being slightly faster, should still be up there in usages.
  9. Shinryu

    Shinryu

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    The idea of Hypnosis + Super Fang is pretty sexy on Crobat, and if you throw in Gravity somewhere from another Pokemon (which lots of Pokemon are now getting), you'll hit with 100% acc as well with both those moves.
  10. KurashiDragon

    KurashiDragon

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    In terms like this I think it'd be fair to say that gengar would rise along with Mismagius as a revenge killer with its superior speed.
  11. Tortferngatr

    Tortferngatr

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    It also happens to be an undiscovered Baton Pass receiver due to Simple (do I suspect a partnership with Ninjask?) but it still isn't all that good, without Sub Passing. Unless it evolves (very unlikely,) we'll make do with all the new users of Super Fang. Especially Crobat and Walrein.
  12. lordkira

    lordkira

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    With sucker punch and super fang Nidoqueen now has a chance to go up to BL at least. Its defensive stats aren't bad (90/87/85), and paired with super fang and a priority, I'd say it may become quite a threat.
  13. Adonzo

    Adonzo

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    bibarel is hardly undiscovered, he HAS been around for 2 years now. he just still isn't that good even with Simple.
  14. Veles

    Veles

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    While it's true that now, 69% of Gyarados are running Leftover instead of LO, only 29.9% run Taunt. That's a bit far off from most, but it is a considerable number.

    The majority still run max ATK/Speed too, rather than a bulkier EV spread.
  15. RegalStar

    RegalStar

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    MissyM has the same problem with Gengar in OU, though - Scizor. It has the same 60/60 defense with Gengar and thus just as vulnerable, or maybe even more vulnerable because it's using the turn to power up instead of outright attacking. Since Gengar with 130 base special attack only does about 50% with an 120 BP Focus Blast, I doubt MissyM can do much more with 105 base special attack and 70 BP Hidden Power, even at +2.
  16. Blln

    Blln

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    To be honest, the only real change I see actually happening is a huge rise in Crobat usage in OU, possibly even pushing him up to the cutoff. He's always been one of the more used UU/BL pokemon in OU, but his big problem was that he previously had no real way to deal with the huge amount of steel types in OU (Heatwave notwithstanding) and was too easy to force out. Now that he has a way of instantly knocking off 50% of his counters' health, he seems much more appealing. Not to mention his combination of incredible speed, reasonable bulk, good typing, and instant recovery move means that he can keep coming back in and firing off Super Fangs, U-turning out to cause a little more damage, and occasionally recovering off SR damage with Roost. It seems to me like the sheer utility of Super Fang / U-Turn / Roost / (Brave Bird/Taunt) @ leftovers is easily worth a team slot.

    As for the addition of Super Fang to Walrein, while it certainly makes Walrein and Hail teams in general much more dangerous, I don't think it is going to have the same effect on Walrein usage as it will on Crobat's usage. Walrein requires a serious amount of support, and in general, the average player does not want to bother with that. I'm not denying that there are some deadly Hail teams out there, but there's a reason why they are not that common.
  17. mtr

    mtr

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    Don't forget Mew. Super Fang / Taunt / Roost has the potential to do some crazy shit to stall. This is because the only things on Uberstall that can take Super Fang are Giratina and Giratina-O, and both of them are deadweights with Taunt. Then you can use Toxic or go to an attacker to take advantage of what's going on.

    Of course, Toxic Spikes screws over this Mew, but you can't have everything, fortunately.
  18. Lemmiwinks MkII

    Lemmiwinks MkII

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    I dunno, Super Fang on Walrein seems like a pretty huge deal to me, given its other attributes. For instance, when I get the chance, I'm thinking of testing out this combo that I outlined here: http://www.smogon.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2207105&postcount=742 . Access to a catch-all attack like Super Fang is a huge blessing for Walrein as it allows plenty of room for its vast array of utility options, allowing Walrein to do the majority of supporting, both for itself and others.
  19. Smokingpaper

    Smokingpaper

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    Won't Mew have some trouble against STAB ghost moves? Girantina I can see but Girantina-O typically carry Shadow Ball/Claw.
  20. mtr

    mtr

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    A lot have Shadow Ball, yes, but after a Taunt, the Mew player can just go to Dialga and threaten a Draco Meteor. But getting the Mew in on Blissey is even better.
  21. ultimifier

    ultimifier

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    also, if you know your playing a stall team you might just use taunt first turn either way, or maybe u turn to see who is being brought out. U turning out from a giratina-o to bring in a mixquaza is pretty much byebye to one pokemon on a stall team
  22. Xaqwais

    Xaqwais

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    I'm liking this strategy, but I don't think it'll be too common. Probably around the level of RestTalk.

    I can't wait to try it in NU.
  23. Hrothgar

    Hrothgar

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    It's a shame that none of the dark types on the list can learn Pursuit. Nobody that switches a ghost into Super Fang is going to attack something that can also learn Sucker Punch.

    Crobat with Super Fang and U-Turn is going to be a biznitch.
  24. TheTorterraKing

    TheTorterraKing

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    super fang... a great way to ruin walls/stallers...
    good job 105
  25. Lou Cypher

    Lou Cypher

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    Houndoom gets both Sucker Punch and Pursuit, and now also Super Fang. Anything coming in will be faced with a die if you do die if you don't scenario. I can see a physical Doom (Maybe with Overheat to hit physical walls) working out rather nicely with this tandem of moves. His attack isn't bad at all (Although by no means stellar), and this way he can screw around a fair bit with those who generally switch in to wall him.

    Heatran makes him cry though.

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