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The New NU Threat List

Discussion in 'BW NU' started by Detective Dell, Jul 21, 2012.

  1. Detective Dell

    Detective Dell Winter Hibernation of the Yarnasauruses
    is a Battle Server Moderatoris a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
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    Messages:
    501
    Hello everyone! A present for you all is to present to everyone the official NU threat list up to date. I feel that we'll need a recap to what's available to the tier, now that there has been many changes in regards to tier placings and Dream World abilities. As you can see, this is structured to a more organized and detailed approached, something that upgrades the past threat lists that we've presented. I hope you all implement use of these in your future RMTs!

    Note: All criticism will be accepting, as long as they support information regarding to possible other sets and other potentially viable Pokemon for placement. If there's a certain idea that you'd like, please comment or PM.

    Rules of new sets are as followed:
    1. You must have tested the sets that you have posted. Sure, you may agree that you can speculate "OMG you should add my super awesome set I came up with!", however, how would I to know if it is effective or not? Sets should include:
    Originality: You should note, however, that one of the hardest things when trying to stand out for your own worth with a certain Pokemon is coming up with effective sets that hasn't been already used/thought of. For example, you can't just expect to use a Bidoof just for the sake of being original and expect to sweep a team with it. Not everything is not going to work effective as others within just of thoughts.

    2. If there are new ideas, state your reasoning of why it should be worth mentioning on the sets. Also, if you want a certain option/move to be considered for a standard set, state its purpose, and what impact would it carry. For example, Rotom-W, one of the most influential threats in the OU environment, is most famous for its Choice set. Celebi was a vastly common answer to Rotom-W. To fix this, Rotom-W had an option of Signal Beam, allowing it to function as a great Lure. This rule would be particularly useful for RMT when threats are mentioned.

    3. Obviously, you should be able to back up whatever you post, or you will just get laughed at, and comments will be deleted.

    4. Take advantage of what the new threat list has over the old ones.

    NU Offensive Threats

    Absol: [​IMG]

    Swords Dance-
    All Out Attacker-
    Mixed Attacker-

    Altaria: [​IMG]

    Offensive Dragon Dance-
    Bulky Dragon Dance-
    Choice Specs-

    Ampharos: [​IMG]

    Choice Specs Wallbreaker-
    Agility-

    Arbok: [​IMG]

    Coil Sweeper-

    Armaldo: [​IMG]

    Swords Dance Spinner-
    Choice Band-
    Doube Dance-

    Articuno: [​IMG]

    SubRoost-
    Choice Specs/LO Offensive-

    Banette: [​IMG]

    Trick Room-

    Basculin: [​IMG]

    Choice Band/Choice Scarf-

    Beartic: [​IMG]

    SubPuncher-

    Beheeyem: [​IMG]

    Trick Room+Nasty Plot-

    Braviary: [​IMG]

    Choice Band-
    Choice Scarf-
    Life Orb+Roost-

    Butterfree: [​IMG]

    Quiver Dance-
    Choice Scarf-
    Double Powder-

    Cacturne: [​IMG]

    Offensive Spikes-
    Swords Dance-

    Camerupt: [​IMG]

    Standard Rock Polish-

    Carracosta: [​IMG]

    Shell Smash-
    Curse-
    Tank-

    Charizard: [​IMG]

    Solar Power (Sunny Day Attacker)-
    Choice Scarf/Choice Specs-
    SubRoost-
    Belly Drum/Swords Dance/Dragon Dance-

    Cinccino: [​IMG]

    Life Orb-

    Combusken: [​IMG]

    Special Speed Boost-
    Swords Dance-

    Cradily: [​IMG]

    Bulky Swords Dance-
    Curse-

    Ditto: [​IMG]

    Imposter-

    Dodrio: [​IMG]

    Choice Band/Choice Scarf-
    Taunt-

    Dragonair: [​IMG]

    Bulky Dragon Dance-
    Offensive Dragon Dance-

    Drifblim: [​IMG]

    Acrobatics-
    ChestoRest-
    SubCM-
    Baton Pass-

    Duosion: [​IMG]

    Calm Mind-
    Offensive Trick Room-

    Eelektross: [​IMG]

    Special Attacker:
    Choice Band-
    Coil-

    Electabuzz: [​IMG]

    Choice Scarf/Choice Specs-
    Charge Beam-

    Electrode: [​IMG]

    Special Attacker-

    Emboar: [​IMG]

    Choice Band-
    Choice Scarf-
    Mixed Wallbreaker-
    Flame Charge-

    Exeggutor: [​IMG]

    Choice Specs-
    Trick Room-
    Mixed Life Orb-
    Sunny Day Sweeper-

    Exploud: [​IMG]

    Wallbreaker-

    Floatzel: [​IMG]

    Choice Band-
    Flame Orb+Switcheroo-
    Bulk Up-
    Mixed Rain Dance-

    Fraxure: [​IMG]

    Dragon Dance-
    Choice Band-

    Gabite: [​IMG]

    Hone Claws-
    Choice Band-

    Gardevoir: [​IMG]

    Choice Scarf/Choice Specs-
    Offensive Calm Mind-
    Defensive Calm Mind-

    Gigalith: [​IMG]

    Lead-
    Curse-

    Glaceon: [​IMG]

    Choice Scarf/Choice Specs-

    Golduck: [​IMG]

    Life Orb-
    Choice Scarf/Choice Specs-
    Offensive Calm Mind-
    SubCM-
    Rain Dance Support-

    Golem: [​IMG]

    Utility-
    Rock Polish-
    Choice Band-

    Golurk: [​IMG]

    Choice Band-
    SubPuncher-

    Gorebyss: [​IMG]

    Shell Smash/SubSmash-

    Gurdurr: [​IMG]

    Bulk Up-

    Haunter: [​IMG]

    SubSplit-
    SubDisable-
    Choice Scarf-

    Heatmor: [​IMG]

    Mixed Attacker-

    Huntail: [​IMG]

    Mixed Shell Smash-

    Jumpluff: [​IMG]

    Acrobatics (Swords Dance)-

    Kadabra: [​IMG]

    Life Orb/Focus Sash Attacker-
    Choice Scarf-

    Kangaskhan: [​IMG]

    Life Orb-
    SubPuncher-
    Choice Band-

    Klang: [​IMG]

    Shift Gear-

    Kingler: [​IMG]

    Agility+Swords Dance-
    Choice Band-

    Lairon: [​IMG]

    Autotomize Sweeper-

    Lampent: [​IMG]

    Trick Room Attacker-

    Lapras: [​IMG]

    Dragon Dance-
    Curse-
    Special Attacker-

    Leafeon: [​IMG]

    Swords Dance-

    Lickilicky: [​IMG]

    Swords Dance-
    Mono Attacker-

    Liepard: [​IMG]

    Nasty Plot-
    Prankster Support-

    Linoone: [​IMG]

    Belly Drum-
    Choice Band-

    Ludicolo: [​IMG]

    Rain Dance Attacker-
    Swords Dance-

    Lunatone: [​IMG]

    Trick Room-
    Rock Polish-

    Luxray: [​IMG]

    Choice Band/Choice Scarf-
    Mixed Attacker-
    Guts-

    Machoke: [​IMG]

    RestTalk-

    Magmar: [​IMG]

    Physical Utility-
    Mixed Attacker-

    Marowak: [​IMG]

    Trick Room Attacker-
    Utility-
    All out Attacker-

    Masquerain: [​IMG]

    QuiverPass-
    Offensive Quiver Dance-

    Mawile: [​IMG]

    Swords Dance-

    Mightyena: [​IMG]

    Life Orb Moxie-

    Miltank: [​IMG]

    Moofensive-
    Curse-

    Misdreavus: [​IMG]

    Calm Mind-
    Nasty Plot-

    Mothim: [​IMG]

    Quiver Dance-

    Muk: [​IMG]

    Choice Band-
    SubPuncher-
    Curse-

    Murkrow: [​IMG]

    Mixed Wallbreaker-

    Musharna: [​IMG]

    Calm Mind-
    Choice Specs-

    Ninjask: [​IMG]

    Baton Pass-
    Offensive Baton Pass-
    Choice Band-

    Octillery: [​IMG]

    Baton Pass Receiver-
    Trick Room Attacker-

    Pelipper: [​IMG]

    Rain Dance-

    Persian: [​IMG]

    Scout-
    Nasty Plot-

    Pikachu: [​IMG]

    Special Attacker-
    Physical Attacker-
    Nasty Plot-

    Piloswine: [​IMG]

    Utility-
    Choice Band/Eviolite Attacker-

    Pinsir: [​IMG]

    Choice Scarf/Choice Band-
    Swords Dance-
    SubSalac-

    Raichu: [​IMG]

    Choice Scarf/Choice Specs-
    Nasty Plot-

    Rampardos: [​IMG]

    Choice Band/Choice Scarf-
    Rock Polish-
    Trick Room Attacker-

    Rapidash: [​IMG]

    Physical Attacker-
    Mixed Sunny Day-

    Raticate: [​IMG]

    Guts-

    Regice: [​IMG]

    ChestoRest-

    Regirock: [​IMG]

    Offensive Tank-

    Relicanth: [​IMG]

    Rock Polish-
    Choice Band-

    Rotom-F: [​IMG]

    Choice Scarf/Choice Specs-
    SubSplit-

    Rotom-S: [​IMG]

    Choice Scarf/Choice Specs-
    SubSplit/SubCharge-
    Paraflinch-

    Samurott: [​IMG]

    Swords Dance-
    Special Attacker-

    Sawk: [​IMG]

    Choice Scarf/Choice Band-

    Sawsbuck: [​IMG]

    Swords Dance-
    Choice-
    Baton Pass-

    Scraggy: [​IMG]

    Bulk Up-

    Seismitoad: [​IMG]

    Rain Dance-
    Tank-

    Serperior: [​IMG]

    Offensive Calm Mind-
    SubCM-
    Coil-

    Seviper: [​IMG]

    Choice Specs-

    Shedinja: [​IMG]

    Swords Dance-

    Shelgon: [​IMG]

    Resttalk Dragon Dance-

    Shiftry: [​IMG]

    Swords Dance-
    Nasty Plot-
    Mixed Growth-
  2. Detective Dell

    Detective Dell Winter Hibernation of the Yarnasauruses
    is a Battle Server Moderatoris a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
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    Messages:
    501
    Offensive threats (cont.)

    Simipour: [​IMG]

    Nasty Plot-
    Choice Specs/Choice Scarf-

    Simisage: [​IMG]

    Nasty Plot-
    SubSeed-

    Simisear: [​IMG]

    Nasty Plot-
    Choice-

    Skuntank: [​IMG]

    Utility Trapper-
    Mixed-

    Slaking: [​IMG]

    Choice Band-

    Sneasel: [​IMG]

    Choice Band-
    Swords Dance-

    Spinda: [​IMG]

    Contrary-

    Swanna: [​IMG]

    Life Orb(SubRoost, RainRoost)-

    Swellow: [​IMG]

    Guts-

    Swoobat: [​IMG]

    Calm Mind-

    Tauros: [​IMG]

    Life Orb-
    Substitute-

    Throh: [​IMG]

    Bulk Up-
    SubProtect-

    Torterra: [​IMG]

    Rock Polish-
    Tank-
    Choice Band-
    Swords Dance-
    SubSeed-

    Tropius: [​IMG]

    Swords Dance-
    SubSeed-

    Ursaring: [​IMG]

    Guts-
    Quick Feet-

    Victreebel: [​IMG]

    Special Growth-
    Mixed Growth-
    Swords Dance-

    Vigoroth: [​IMG]

    Stallbreaker-
    Bulk Up-

    Vileplume: [​IMG]

    Life Orb Tank-

    Wailord: [​IMG]

    Choice Scarf/Choice Specs-

    Whiscash: [​IMG]

    Offensive Dragon Dance-

    Zangoose: [​IMG]

    Toxic Boost-

    Zebstrika: [​IMG]

    Choice Specs/Choice Scarf-

    Zweilous: [​IMG]

    Tank-
    Choice Band/Choice Scarf-
  3. Detective Dell

    Detective Dell Winter Hibernation of the Yarnasauruses
    is a Battle Server Moderatoris a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2012
    Messages:
    501
    Defensive Threats

    NU Defensive Threats

    Alomomola: [​IMG]

    Support-

    Altaria: [​IMG]

    Specially Defensive-

    Amoonguss: [​IMG]

    Physically Defensive-

    Ampharos: [​IMG]

    Specially Defensive-
    Dual Screens-

    Articuno: [​IMG]

    Specially Defensive-
    SubRoost-

    Audino: [​IMG]

    Specially Defensive-
    Dual Screens-
    Trick Room-

    Bastiodon: [​IMG]

    Support-
    Metal Burst-

    Camerupt: [​IMG]

    Specially Defensive-

    Carracosta: [​IMG]

    Tank-

    Cradily: [​IMG]

    Support-

    Dragonair: [​IMG]

    RestTalk Shuffler-

    Ditto: [​IMG]

    Imposter-

    Exeggutor: [​IMG]

    SubSeed-

    Flareon: [​IMG]

    Specially Defensive-

    Frillish: [​IMG]

    Utility Counter-

    Garbodor: [​IMG]

    Hazard Stacker-

    Gardevoir: [​IMG]

    Defensive-

    Gigalith: [​IMG]

    Standard-

    Golbat: [​IMG]

    Stallbreaker-

    Golem: [​IMG]

    Standard-

    Gothielle: [​IMG]

    Trick Room-
    Dual Screens-
    Calm Mind-

    Grumpig: [​IMG]

    Support-
    Dual Screens-

    Gurdurr: [​IMG]

    Standard-

    Hypno: [​IMG]

    Support-
    Boosting Passer-

    Jumpluff: [​IMG]

    SubSeed-
    Sunny Day-

    Lairon: [​IMG]

    Physically Defensive-
    Specially Defensive-

    Lampent: [​IMG]

    Specially Defensive-

    Lapras: [​IMG]

    Defensive Tank-

    Leafeon: [​IMG]

    Bulky Baton Pass-
    Physically Defensive-

    Lickilicky: [​IMG]

    Cleric-

    Ludicolo: [​IMG]

    Specially Defensive-
    SubSeed-

    Luxray: [​IMG]

    Physically Defensive-

    Magcargo: [​IMG]

    Support-

    Mantine: [​IMG]

    RestTalk-

    Maractus: [​IMG]

    ChloroSpikes-

    Mawile: [​IMG]

    Baton Pass-

    Mr. Mime: [​IMG]

    Baton Pass-

    Meganium: [​IMG]

    Support-
    Dual Screens-

    Miltank: [​IMG]

    Mootility-

    Misdreavus: [​IMG]

    Physically Defensive-

    Muk: [​IMG]

    Tank-
    Curse-

    Murkrow: [​IMG]

    Prankster-
    Featherdance-

    Musharna: [​IMG]

    Support-
    Calm Mind-

    Natu: [​IMG]

    Dual Screens-

    Piloswine: [​IMG]

    Defensive-

    Probopass: [​IMG]

    Utility-
    Air Balloon-

    Regice: [​IMG]

    Standard-
    Rest Talk-

    Regigigas: [​IMG]

    Defensive-

    Regirock: [​IMG]

    Defensive-
    Sunny Day-

    Relicanth: [​IMG]

    Defensive-

    Rotom-S: [​IMG]

    Defensive-
    Paraflincher-

    Seadra: [​IMG]

    Physically Defensive-

    Serperior: [​IMG]

    SubSeed-
    Dual Screens-
    Coil Shuffler-

    Shelgon: [​IMG]

    Support-

    Shuckle: [​IMG]

    Utility-

    Solrock: [​IMG]

    Support-
    Baton Pass-

    Stunfisk: [​IMG]

    RestTalk-
    Offensive Tank-

    Tangela: [​IMG]

    Physically Defensive-

    Throh: [​IMG]

    Bulk Up-
    SubProtect-

    Togetic: [​IMG]

    Special Wall-
    Baton Pass-

    Torkoal: [​IMG]

    Rapid Spin Support-

    Torterra: [​IMG]

    Tank-

    Tropius: [​IMG]

    SubSeed-

    Vigoroth: [​IMG]

    Stallbreaker-
    Bulk Up-

    Vileplume: [​IMG]

    Cleric-

    Volbeat: [​IMG]

    Baton Pass-
    Weather Setter-

    Walrein: [​IMG]

    Encore Support-

    Wartortle: [​IMG]

    Rapid Spin-

    Weezing: [​IMG]

    Physical Tank-

    Whirlpede: [​IMG]

    Bulky Hazards-

    Wynaut: [​IMG]

    Why Not in NU? (Trapper)-

    Enjoy.

    Shoutouts to users FLCL, WhiteDMist, Majestic Electric, and the majority of IRC chat for the support, have a good day.
  4. Raseri

    Raseri here to help
    is a Tutoris a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Researcher Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
    NU Co-Leader

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2007
    Messages:
    3,479
    OK I'll go through the offensive threatlist now, and I'll make a shortlist of stuff that I think should be removed. We can go over them on IRC one by one later, or discuss disagreements here.


    Absol: mixed attacker. Useless without Quag and the fall of Tangela. Not worth it anymore

    Altaria: Life Orb + Power Swap. Choice Specs is better, this isn't really a threat since I've never seen one ever

    Agility Ampharos is disappointingly weak. I don't think it is a threat

    Dodrio is just outclassed by other normal / flying types

    Choice Band Eelektross? I'm unsure about this one since Eelektross generally is used as a pivot and hitting hard isnt as important, and special sets are generally better

    Questioning Gabite's viability
    Curse Gigalith? Never seen it
    Golduck i generally outclassed, it really doesn't bring much Simipour doesnt
    Remove all non utility Golem sets
    No Scarf Kadabra
    no Krokorok
    SubSplit Lampent to be added :)
    Choice Luxray is outclassed by other electrics, and physical electric isnt that good
    Magmar needs a special set
    CB Ninjask sucks imo
    LO Musharna pls
    physical pikachu kinda sucks
    LO 4 attack Pinsir needs to be there
    Rock Polish regice maybe
    LO Sawsbuck
    remove the amazing shedinja until i 6-0 DTC with it
    no simisear
    Spinda is legit keep it even if DTC says no
    unsure on subtect throh, ill get back to you though
    no subseed torterra
    unsure on Trop
    no SunnyBeam plume, it just isnt that good
    scarf > specs on zebstrika
    wailord is weak, im unsure
  5. Full2Half

    Full2Half

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2011
    Messages:
    195
    Nice job on this dell and everyone else who worked on it!

    I agree with most of what raseri said (spindapocalypse!)

    some other nitpicks:

    Add CB fraxure
    Remove support magcargo
    Add specially defensive grumpig
    Add lumrest exeggutor
    remove SD ludicolo


    Outside of those, nice job! definately will use this when making teams.
  6. FLCL

    FLCL
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis Smogon Frontier's Salon Maidenis a Past SPL Winner

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    Messages:
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    Hey AgentDell, thanks for finishing this up for me and adding sprites and specific sets! Here's my take on what should be removed or added for the Offensive Threats; I'll get to the Defensive Threats some other day. I might repeat some things that Raseri has already mentioned since I wrote this up and then saw his post. Feel free to call me out on IRC if you disagree with anything (this applies to everyone else too)


    Code:
    Absol - Remove Mixed Attacker; it's not effective enough / too similar to the All Out Attacker set. 
    
    Altaria - Remove Life Orb + Power Swap; it's literally never seen and inferior to Choice Specs.
    
    Armaldo - Remove Choice Band and Double Dance; they're not effective and outclassed. Mention a Tank set. 
    
    Banette -  Remove this entire Pokemon; it's too outclassed by Golurk and there are better choices to set up Trick Room. 
    
    Basculin - Remove the Choice Scarf set; it doesn't hit hard enough to be considered as a threat.
    
    Beartic - Not effective enough to be a threat in my opinion. Remove(?)
    
    Butterfree - Double Powder should be considered as an Defensive Threat.
    
    Camerupt -  These two sets perform the same role; I would fuse them into one Rock Polish set. Add a Tank set.
    
    Drifblim - Remove SubCM; it's too similar to the ChestoRest set, which is better. 
    
    Electabuzz - Remove the Charge Beam set; add a Eviolite Attacker set. 
    
    Electrode - Remove the Lead set; it's too similar to the Special Attacker.
    
    Emboar - Remove the Choice Specs set; the Mixed Wallbreaker basically does the same job, which is surprising the opponent. 
    
    Exeggutor - Harvest should be considered as a Defensive Threat.
    
    Floatzel - Bulk Up should be renamed as Bulk Up + Baton Pass since Floatzel is never going to sweep teams by itself. 
    
    Fraxure - Add a Choice Band set.
    
    Gardevoir - Add a Life Orb Healing Wish set. Fuse Defensive Calm Mind and Offensive Calm Mind into one set since they are too similar. 
    
    Gigalith - Remove the Curse set; it's too uncommon and easily stopped. 
    
    Golem - Remove Rock Polish and Choice Band; see above comments.
    
    Golurk -  Add a Rock Polish set.
    
    Huntail - Shell Smash should be renamed to Mixed Shell Smash, which differentiates it from Gorebyss.
    
    Kadabra -  Remove the Choice Scarf set; it's too weak and is complete bait for Pursuiters.
    
    Kangaskhan - Rename the Scout set to Life Orb. It doesn't have U-Turn so it can't really be classified as a scout.
    
    Krokorok - Remove this Pokemon; too weak and frail to be considered a serious threat.
    
    Lairon: Add a Tank set.
    
    Lampent - Add a SubSplit set.
    
    Lapras - Add a Special Attacker set.
    
    Leafeon - Add a Baton Pass set. 
    
    Lickilicky - Remove the Mono Attacker set; it's almost never seen.
    
    Liepar - Remove the Fake Out set; it's too weak to do serious damage. Add a Prankster Support set.
    
    Ludicolo - Add a Synthesis Tank set.
    
    Remove the Mixed Attacker and Choice Scarf set; they're too uncommon and easily walled. 
    
    Lunatone - Remove this Pokemon; simply a bad Gardevoir.
    
    Magmar - Remove the Belly Drum set; Charizard does this a whole lot better.
    
    Masquerain - Remove Offensive Quiver Dance; Butterfree does it better.
    
    Mightyena - Remove this Pokemon since it's simply a bad Absol unless it magically gets two or more kills, which isn't going to happen. 
    
    Mothim - Remove this Pokemon; Butterfree outclasses it.
    
    Musharna - Add a Trick Room set.
    
    Ninjask - Remove Offensive Baton Pass; it's too similar to the Baton Pass set. 
    
    Pelipper - Rain Dance should be renamed to Tank; since it hits pretty hard.
    
    Pikachu - Remove the Nasty Plot set; it's too frail to find a turn to set-up.
    
    Rampardos - Trick Room should be renamed to Trick Room Sweeper.
    
    Relicanth - Add a Tank set.
    
    Rotom-S - Remove the SubCharge set; it doesn't work since Rotom no longer has a Ghost typing. 
    
    Sawsbuck - Add a Baton Pass set and Subtitiute + Swords Dance set.
    
    Seviper - Remove the Coil set; Arbok does it better.
    
    Simisage - Remove the SubSeed set; it's not common enough to be a threat. 
    
    Slaking - Slash a Choice Scarf set.
    
    Swoobat -  Remove the Dual Screens set; Swoobat has better things to be doing than that.
    
    Throh -  Remove the SubProtect set; I don't see what that accomplishes. 
    
    Tropius - This should be classified as a Defensive Threat; Swords Dance is too weak and Harvest is primarily defensive.
    
    Vigoroth - Remove the SubEncore set; it's too uncommon and weak to be considered a threat.
    
    Vileplume - Remove the SunnyBeam set; Exeggutor does it better. Add a Life Orb Tank set. 
    
    Whiscash - Remove the Tank and SubDance set since they are weak and uncommon.
    
  7. Detective Dell

    Detective Dell Winter Hibernation of the Yarnasauruses
    is a Battle Server Moderatoris a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnus

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    Thank you all for your posts! I will add/remove changes as mentioned, though FLCL, I would like to defend Banette, as it functions a different role from Golurk, and what's different is that it function as a one-dimensional Trick Room lead for its team, make decent use of his STAB (though I will admit that is does get outclassed in the attacking role), and if fortunate enough, kill something with Shadow Claw/Destiny Bond before going down its own. Thank you for your input!

    Also, I would like to say that I can't necessarily agree with you about BP and Offensive BP Ninjask, while they ultimately are trying to do the same thing, Offensive Ninjask sports a more offensive approach with his offensive movepool, attempting to break through what it can with its STAB and Baton Pass the boosts to a more ideal sweeper, when it runs into something that it can't really harm at +2. Swords Dance / X-Scissor / Aerial Ace / Baton Pass with Max Attack and Speed with an Adamant nature is the set.
  8. WhiteDMist

    WhiteDMist PU! We don't stink though!
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    -_- Dell, I probably should have mentioned that the sprites go in front of the name. Oh well, amazing job with this! I have to agree with most of what Raseri and FLCL mentioned. It wouldn't hurt to keep Banette and Wailord for the occasional Trick Room team of course.
  9. Incon

    Incon

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    While this may be true, this doesnt remove the fact that dodrio can still be a threat in the right circumstances.

    Dell, great job on this! Its so nice to a have a well organized, updated threat list to refer to. Thanks for the great work.
  10. ThePhalanx

    ThePhalanx

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    A couple of things I could see added would be SubSalac Harvest Exeggutor and Bulk Up Braviary. While they may not be too common yet, they are definitely threats to look out for.
  11. Majestic Electric

    Majestic Electric

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    This looks awesome, Dell! :) Great job and thanks for the hard work you put in for this!
  12. shnen

    shnen שוני
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    Scarf and band cincinno should be added.
    Krokorok should be removed.
  13. Detective Dell

    Detective Dell Winter Hibernation of the Yarnasauruses
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    Sorry for the late changes, everyone, but updates have been made.

    -Various changes with Pokemon sets.
    -Krokorok has been removed from the Offensive list.

    Possible considerations:
    -Offensive: Glailie, Mantine
    -Defensive: Tentacool

    Bump. Please elaborate.
  14. WhiteDMist

    WhiteDMist PU! We don't stink though!
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    I don't know, Offensive Glalie is basically countered by anything that counters offensive Piloswine and more. Swift Swim Mantine isn't too bad from what little experience I've had using it, but its niches are Swift Swim, better bulk and Hydro Pump. It's also not that common in general. Tentacool isn't great, but I guess it can handle special Samurott and Gorebyss well enough. But it's not that effective at breaking spinblockers and Toxic Spikes aren't as effective. But it can't hurt I guess.
  15. Molk

    Molk rip houndoom
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    Oh god, please dont add tentacool as a defensive threat, it is incapable of doing much of anything and the fact that its usage is so high really surprises me, ESPECIALLY in this metagame. Tentacool has absolutely no offensive presence, having a godlike base 40 special attack, its also terrible at spinning and spiking. It cant reliably get past golurk, misdreavus, OR frillish. To make things worse, toxic spikes are pretty bad in a metagame with poison-types EVERYWHERE, chances are the hazards will be absorbed before they can affect the opponents team at all. Another point ill have to make is walling a pokemon means nothing when it cant do ANYTHING back to them without sacrificing a STAB attack. Overall, i always thought tentacool was lolworthy, and i would even use the mighty metang over it.

    TL;DR plz dont add tentacool, everything else is fine
  16. Detective Dell

    Detective Dell Winter Hibernation of the Yarnasauruses
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    I disagree with you about Glailie. It does not have the same counters as Piloswine, as its only job is to set up Spikes, Taunt opposing things (preferably Garbodor, Probopass, and other things), and Explode once it has done its job, which is just stacking Spikes. If it can steer clear from strong Rock Blast Pokemon, it should guarantee at least 2 layers, assuming Focus Sash and that it's faster (it is the fastest Spikes user in NU).
  17. WhiteDMist

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    That would be more of a support set regardless, so it would be better off in the defensive threats section. Offensively, the Choice Banded set isn't that great.
  18. breh

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    Glalie is bad and inferior to Garbodor, which has better everything bar SpA and 5 base speed. Offensive Glalie is even worse.
  19. Raikaria

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    Altaria should have Cotton Guard as a defensive threat. After a Cotton Guard not even STAB Banded Stone Edges 2HKO it... without using Roost beforehand. I think not even Rhydon could 2HKO it back when he was NU.

    That said, it might fall under specially defensive, since Cottontaria goes Sp.Def to maximise overall bulk after a Cotton Guard.

    Pretty much the only thing that stops Cotton-Taria is Ice Beams. Meanwhile it can abuse Roost and Roar. You can't Toxic-stall it because of Natural Cure [Although that does remove Cotton Guard], and it's typing is great. Coupled with hazards, such as T-Spikes and SR, CottonTaria can be a nigh unstoppable lynchpin.
  20. ChaoticaMortis

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    Raikaria definitely has a good point there. Cotton Guard Altaria has to be dealt with quickly before it gets a chance to set up, because there's little that can be done about it once it's boosted its defenses (other than critical hits and strong Ice attacks). A fast Taunt is about the only thing that can guarantee that it won't be able to frustrate you a little bit.
  21. Detective Dell

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    Glailie sports a more offensive approach in his Standard Spikes set. Because of that, we can't just throw every single support-based Pokemon on the Defensive threat list, since some are meant to be Offensive. Honestly, if I were to list Glailie there, then I guess I would have to list Cacturne and Electrode (Rain Dance Lead) as well, which is not a particularly legitimate role for them.

    @Raikaria & ChaoticaMortis: I agree that you two have good points about Altaria, even though on paper, it seems like quite a gimmicky role, as it has better things to be doing most of the time, it looks reasonably viable.
  22. Amarillo

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    OK I'm basically repeating most of FLCL's stuffs but please read his stuff more carefully. For example, Synthesis tank of Ludicolo, etc. You missed a /lot/ of them. I'd point them out one by one except I'm kind of busy.

    Beheeyem: Add Analytic Attacker set?

    Charizard: you can roll in Belly Drum / Dragon Dance / Swords Dance as 'Physical booster' if you wish. That kind of looks messy right now.

    Exeggutor: Lumrest

    Leafeon: Bulky Baton Pass set should go to Offensive category.

    Magmar: Add Special Magmar, like Raseri said.

    Murkrow: Prankster and FeatherDance are kind of the same thing... FeatherDance is also a Prankster set. Merge?

    Probopass: Move the Air Balloon to the offensive category.

    Note that for a lot of the tank sets you have them on both offensive and defensive threats. Is this ok? I'd say it'd be otherwise OK, other than the fact that Stunfisk's Offensive Tank set is under defensive threat (and not under offensive).
  23. Fun With Knives

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    I wouldn't use it as a wall for the horrid Defense and HP stats. Decent SpD, Rapid Spin, and the wholly ignorable Toxic Spikes are the only real things it has, plus it practically requires Barrier as well, limiting it to one potentially useful move, which is usually Giga Drain or Surf, neither of which fares well with Tentacool's 50 base SpA. It is in every respect inferior to the likes of Audino, Lickylicky, and Musharna, each of which can function independently and has a good support movepool. If you want a Poison-type wall, Amoonguss doesn't require any creativity, and Vileplume and Weezing are there for the hipsters, complete with convenient abilities. If you want entry hazards, you'd literally be better off running Maractus, and that's pretty sad.
  24. ChaoticaMortis

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    This.

    Also, if Molk didn't convince you, maybe Molk will convince you.

  25. Detective Dell

    Detective Dell Winter Hibernation of the Yarnasauruses
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    Just to note, these Pokemon that I've mentioned recently are only displayed for discussion. They will not be added until final decisions are made.

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