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The Next Best Thing - Croagunk

Discussion in 'BW LC' started by dcae, Apr 21, 2013.

  1. blarajan

    blarajan i was born under the same star as shakeitup
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    Little Cup Leader

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    sarkynin

    i popularized that set at the time and goddamn it's still good
  2. The Quasar

    The Quasar

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    EBeast/The Unlucky one
  3. Good_Luck!

    Good_Luck!

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  4. Detective Dell

    Detective Dell Winter Hibernation of the Yarnasauruses
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    Good ol' buddy EBeast.
  5. dcae

    dcae naughty list

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    So 2 days are up! Tallying the votes and we get

    Feranfell - 2
    The Unlucky one - 1
    EBeast - 6
    ABfloww - 0
    Goddess Briyella - 0
    Sarkynin - 8
    Corkscrew - 0
    TehMexicanDewd - 0

    The winner is Sarkynin's SubPass LO Mienfoo! The set will be added to the archive, and the next subject will be

    [​IMG]

    Once again, 3 days to nominate sets, so let's see some creative stuff for Snover!
  6. Axisotaku

    Axisotaku

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    [​IMG]

    Snover @ Eviolite
    Trait: Snow Warning
    Level: 5
    EVs: 36 HP / 180 Atk / 36 Def / 36 Spd / 196 SDef
    Adamant Nature
    - Substitute
    - Swords Dance
    - Ice Shard
    - Wood Hammer

    This is about the only other set that Snover could probably run (along with Sub/Seed) but I chose to promote this set instead of the other since I think it can end up being much more threatening. I might have tweaked the Evs wrong but I think it looks about right.

    Obviously bluffing the scarf you can possibly surprise someone with a Sub and/or SD, the Ice shard will more damage than the scarf set (especially at +2). So with the proper team this kind of set i'm sure can do good work. Since i'm not good at doing descriptions i'll let someone else do it if he wants to.
  7. apt-get

    apt-get CONFIRMED CONFIRMED CONFIRMED
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    o look new pokemon



    • What is thought to "counter" this pokemon? Generally, the best counters to snover are things that can take a hit easily and retaliate back. Most checks to it are things that resist one of its STABs, since it's usually scarfed.
    • Is there anyway to bypass this pokemon's so-called "counters? Generally, a Life Orb is the best option to power up its attacks; however, it needs some prediction.
    • What moves are seldom used on this pokemon, but have the most upside? Physical moves are simply outclassed by special ones, and the only notable other move in Snover's movepool is Substitute; a rarely-used move that's great though on this pokémon.
    • What niches can this pokemon potentially fill in the current metagame? Wallbreak, threaten out a lot of pokémon even without an eviolite with its typing.
    • What opposing pokemon does this pokemon do well against? Generally, things with moves that he resists, and most walls.
    • How can this pokemon benefit it's teammates? Its Blizzard is one of the most powerful moves in the tier, and 2HKOing many pokémon that his partners have trouble with makes it a great pokémon for offensive teams. Its hail is also really helpful to turns 3HKOes in 2HKOes and to remove sand.

    [​IMG]
    Snover @ Life Orb
    Trait: Snow Warning
    Level: 5
    EVs: 36 HP / 184 Atk / / 184 SAtk / 36 SDef / 36 Spe
    Rash nature
    - Blizzard
    - Giga Drain
    - Substitute
    - Ice Shard / Hidden Power [Fire] / Hidden Power [Rock]

    184+ SpA Life Orb Snover Blizzard vs. 236 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Porygon: 13-17 (50 - 65.38%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    184+ SpA Life Orb Snover Blizzard vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Misdreavus: 12-16 (54.54 - 72.72%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    184 Atk Life Orb Snover Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Misdreavus: 5-8 (22.72 - 36.36%) -- 0.02% chance to 3HKO (on average, Missy is 2HKOed by LO Blizzard + ice shard + one round of hail)

    184+ SpA Life Orb Snover Blizzard vs. 156 HP / 36 SpD Eviolite Mienfoo: 16-19 (69.56 - 82.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    That's against all of Snover's common checks'n'counters. You can come in easily against a Drilbur/Krow/anything weak to ice or grass before you reveal LO and sub to KO the switch-in, and then you can easily come in on weakened things and either ice shard or sub if you predict a switch. (You can still switch on chinchou/Staryu/hippopotas late-game.) It can easily 2HKO or straight-up OHKO its counters, and even the bulkiest ones such as Porygon are 2HKOed. Giga Drain is a secondary STAB to heal yourself against water-types, but usually you'll be spamming Blizzard. Modest is to always get the 2HKO on Porygon, and generally increases the damage rolls. max SpA and Atk for ice shard, and the rest are dumped in bulk. Substitute also eases prediction.

    EDIT: edited EVs
    EDIT2: edited EVs again to outspeed bulky attacker porygon
  8. dcae

    dcae naughty list

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    I know Snover is a tough one to come up with a set with, but right now we have all of two sets to vote on. I'll leave this open for another day or two to see if anyone else has a proposition, then I'll open voting.
  9. The Quasar

    The Quasar

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    (I can try to think a new set, even though Snover is really standard. I'll edit this message).

    That's my attempt about Snover; all begins by considering Snover's equal values on Atk and SAtk, why do not employed to their full potential? Then this set, can do it (while leaving value points and faults about Snover).

    Snover@Eviolite Trait: Snow Warning
    EVs: 36 HP / 104 Atk / 36 Def / 184 SAtk / 116 Spd
    Quiet Nature (+SAtk, -Spd)
    - Substitute
    - Growth
    - Blizzard
    - Wood Hammer/Seed Bomb


    Growth boosts the Snover's Attack and Special Attack, wherever and whenever possible hidden from a Substitute. Then Blizzard and Wood Hammer provide strong STAB attack. If you want to avoid recoil, you can Seed Bomb instead of Wood Hammer.
  10. ABfloww

    ABfloww

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    [​IMG][​IMG]



    • What is thought to "counter" this pokemon? Well generally pokemon that can take hit and retaliate back, or priority. Eg. Misdreavus, timburr, Pawniard and so on.
    • Is there anyway to bypass this pokemon's so-called "counters? My suggestion to this is to sub up on the predicted switch, so you can get that extra hit off or scout for status moves.
    • What moves are seldom used on this pokemon, but have the most upside? I think a move like Frost Breath can be very handy when you want to revenge kill so pokemon that has set up with defenses, so the only way to kill it off is to get a critical hit, and hense Frost Breath: which always results in a crit.
    • What niches can this pokemon potentially fill in the current metagame? A lot of pokemon in the current LC metagame is weak to ice, especially the common sand team. Also many people switch out hippo when u send in snover, so you can always sub up.
    • What opposing pokemon does this pokemon do well against? Mainly pokemon that are weak to its hits, and predominantly Sand teams.
    • How can this pokemon benefit it's teammates? Well i guess it could be beneficial to set up hail, and its always nice to have that one counter to sand teams.

    Snover @ Eviolite
    Trait: Snow Warning
    Level: 5
    EVs: 196 SDef / 180 SAtk / 132 Def
    Modest Nature
    - Frost Breath
    - Substitute
    - Giga Drain
    - Growth/ Hidden Power Fire

    Nothing more i can really say, other than its a fun set to use, and can be really handy it tough situations.
  11. dcae

    dcae naughty list

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    Well, it was a good thing I left it open. Snover was a tough Pokémon to come up sets for, so it is understandable. Here are the four given proposals:

    Axisotaku's Set
    Sarkynin's Set
    The Quasar's Set
    ABfloww's Set

    Standard fare, just vote for the username you want in bold. Voting will be up for ~48 hours.
  12. Nozzle

    Nozzle

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    Interesting to see that all sets hàve Sub.

    Sarky
  13. Good_Luck!

    Good_Luck!

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    ABFloww's set is interesting but Frost Breath's low Base Power and the fact that not many 'mons run Specially defensive set up moves (other than Calm Mind Natu/Murkrow who are both weak to Ice anyway) makes it not useful enough.

    I don't think Snover can be fast enough to run a Boosting set so...

    Sarkynin
  14. iss

    iss happily ever after
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    Sarkynin

    Frost Breath does literally nothing, even Ice Beam would be better. All of these sets are pretty bad though, Scarf (and Eviolite to a lesser extent) is pretty much the only good set.
  15. Electrolyte

    Electrolyte For every king that died, oh, they would crown another
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    Axisotaku

    One thing that really needs to be considered when one picks a set is other sets that Snover already has. Snover is fairly limited as to what it can do but is in no way bad because of this- in a sense, it's a 'one set wonder'. Its Scarf set is powerful, and even though it's pretty much the only useable set right now (I honestly have never had any success with like bulky or subseed Snover) it is more than enough to make Snover effective. When choosing other viable sets, we have to keep in mind that choosing something that is outclassed by Snover's best set is unsatisfactory, as obviously nobody would grab a free 50 dollar bill if there was a 100 dollar bill lying around for free, too.

    At first I was about to vote for Sarkynin but I decided otherwise after a bit of thought. Axis's set is probably the only set nominated that I would ever consider using instead of the Scarf set. Sarkynin's set is viable, but I feel as if it's outclassed by Scarf Snover, whose Speed makes it more useful than the LO sets power. Also, keep in mind that, because Snover is a weather inducer, keeping it healthy but also active is very important. Sub recoil + LO recoil + hazards quickly spells the end of Snover, since it will constantly need to switch in and out in order to counter Sand teams. Plus, the Scarf set just in general threatens a lot more pokemon, and is a lot more dangerous.

    I feel as if Axis's set is most interesting because it is powerful, unpredictable, and yet it can still function and carry through with Snover's most important job, countering Sand and acting as an anti-meta Pokemon. Sub+Ice Shard and Wood Hmmer support seems awesome, because Snover forces switches and will have no trouble grabbing a Sub / Boost and then killing something. Really, Ice / Grass coverage is all Snover needs to succeed, so its STABs provide more than enough coverage by themselves.

    Plus, it has the element of surprise, is bulkier, is more powerful after a boost, and is faster (if one uses a better spread than Axis provided.)

    Oh and bulky / defensive Snover is bad because Ice / Grass is so horrible defensively. Most opponents can hit Snover SE with a coverage move, making bulky sets such as Abfloww's unviable. Growth seems like a good idea but again I'd prefer either a Scarf or purely physical / special. Plus, Snover is a bit too slow to apply offensive setup pressure without priority.
  16. ebeast

    ebeast she's probably sexting nprtprt
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    Sarkynin was by far the best set out of all of these. I also do agree with iss and Electrolyte that Scarf is the best thing to run on Snover and finding another set that works well in the metagame is quite hard. I don't think Snover was a really good choice for this project as it lacks much of a movepool outside of the essentials. (Blizzard, Giga Drain, Ice Shard) This lack of a movepool makes trying to create new effective sets difficult and making sure a Pokemon has a decently sized movepool should be a factor when deciding what gets featured for this.
    Passion, atomicllamas and TROP like this.
  17. apt-get

    apt-get CONFIRMED CONFIRMED CONFIRMED
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    Axisotaku
  18. Mylo Xyloto

    Mylo Xyloto

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  19. The Quasar

    The Quasar

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    My vote is for Axisotaku's set. I think it could surprise with its unpredictable boost.
  20. Icicle Fissh

    Icicle Fissh

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  21. Lunatic Lies

    Lunatic Lies

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  22. dcae

    dcae naughty list

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    We have a tie right now, so I'll leave this open for another day and see if we get any votes to break the tie.
  23. ABfloww

    ABfloww

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    Axisotaku
  24. JoshuaMunoz

    JoshuaMunoz

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  25. Delver

    Delver I got the runs like Jagger

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    I gotta vote sarky. I just dont think snover has the speed, bulk, resistances or physical move set to pull off a sub/sword dance, or even sub/growth set for that matter, even with an eviolite. I mean wood hammer slows its sweep. the sets just require it to have both a sub and a boost up to do their jobs properly and to realistically get there i just dont see it happening unless your opponent hands you free turns like he works at a soup kitchen.

    Sub/LO however only 'wastes' one turn on set up and uses LO to back up its attacks from there. I don't think its anything more than a gimmick in the current metagame, but as is, unfortunately, snover isnt given the luxury of being able to run non-scarf sets due to its need to be a drilbur check (since so few things do that well). I do however, think its the best of the 4 and could perform more (in relation to the other sets) consistently.

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