Other The Next Best Thing - ORAS OU Edition (Discussing Gardevoir sets) Check Post #920

[bb skarm]

Just wondering, shouldn't "The Next Best Thing" be not the one featured first on the official Smogon analysis, or one that was created during a previous TNBT?

I wrote the smogon analysis, and I can tell you that the smogon analysis does not feature dragon dance or any bulky variation of it. My set does not have Extreme Speed and has Roost instead. To further prove this, the two sets play differently.

The only similar things between the smogon analysis and my set are the EVs.

tl;dr my set is eligible

 

[one hitta quitta]

Well the whole point of the set was for dragonite to hide behind subs and to spam dragon tail to phaze stuff (preferably with hazards + spikes) safely, and then finish off weakened foes with e-speed. A mono attacking set generally isn't good with dragon as your only move, because there are plenty of fairies and steels in OU, the main ones being scizor, ferro, skarm, clef, mega diancie, mega gross, mega altaria ... as you can see, it's hard for dragonite to function with only one move.
If you were talking about Mysteria 's set, then no, running subroost + ddance + outrage would not be good, because of mentioned reasons, but also because sub limits your coverage options, so you generally wouldn't want to run 3 non attacking moves on an offensive set.

OK, just wanted to check. I was thinking about mono-attacking, because SubRoost Dragonite hits kinda soft against the defensive pokemon he can setup on, but I guess phazing and wearing them down will do.

 

[totoTavros]

I wrote the smogon analysis, and I can tell you that the smogon analysis does not feature dragon dance or any bulky variation of it. My set does not have Extreme Speed and has Roost instead. To further prove this, the two sets play differently.

The only similar things between the smogon analysis and my set are the EVs.

tl;dr my set is eligible

I'm sorry, I just saw the ev spread, I should have been more careful.

 

[bb skarm]

edit: this post is now useless given that the problem has been resolved

 

[totoTavros]

See the edit. I'm really sorry, I'm quite tired.

 

[one hitta quitta]

See the edit. I'm really sorry, I'm quite tired.

Yeah, it happens to the best of us. . .

 

[firehusky]

K, just want to put up a notice, tomorrow (Saturday) will be out last day for discussion. We will start voting on sunday, and by monday I will post the results and post a new test subject.

 

[Turducken64]

Here's a set I have used on a few stall teams

Dragonite @ Leftovers
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 248 Hp / 252 SDef / 8 Spd
Careful Nature
- Dragon Tail / Dragon Claw
- Fire Punch / Earthquake
- Toxic / Thunder Wave
- Roost

This set originated in March when the big three special attackers were Lando-I, Char-Y and Keldeo. Back then Keldeo carried HP flying over icy wind making dragonite a good counter to all three even after rocks. This Dnite set functions similarly to spdef gyara except he can pressure opposing. Steels with Eq or fire punch coming off 134 base attack. Although SpDef Dnite is not as good as it once was in early XY it can still hold its own on many stall teams because multiscale is such a great ability for a stall mon to have.

Edit: will add more when I'm on my laptop currently on my phone.

 

[firehusky]

Here's a set I have used on a few stall teams

Dragonite @ Leftovers
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 248 Hp / 252 SDef / 8 Spd
Careful Nature
- Dragon Tail / Dragon Claw
- Fire Punch / Earthquake
- Toxic / Thunder Wave
- Roost

This set originated in March when the big three special attackers were Lando-I, Char-Y and Keldeo. Back then Keldeo carried HP flying over icy wind making dragonite a good counter to all three even after rocks. This Dnite set functions similarly to spdef gyara except he can pressure opposing. Steels with Eq or fire punch coming off 134 base attack. Although SpDef Dnite is not as good as it once was in early XY it can still hold its own on many stall teams because multiscale is such a great ability for a stall mon to have.

Edit: will add more when I'm on my laptop currently on my phone.

Sounds like a good idea, Dragonite seems like a great counter to all three barring dragon pulse char y and the rare HP ice lando.
Adding this to the updated list:
Recreant's WP Dragonite Dragon Dance sweeper
DarkBlazeR's Special Life Orb Dragonite
one hitta quitta's Bulky Sub Roost Dragonite
iamfanboy's Phazer Dragonite
TheInsanity's Lure SandNite
Mysteria's Bulky DDnite
Turducken64's Specially Defensive Dragonite

 

[Jojobobo]

How about Whirlpool Wrap Trap Dragonite:

Dragonite @ Binding Band
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Whirlpool Wrap (see below discussion)
- Toxic
- Roost
- Haze / Sub

Designed to wrack up heavy damage and trap pokemon with the combo of Whirlpool Wrap (takes off 1/6 of a pokemon's health with Binding Band for 4-5 turns) plus Toxic. Haze prevents other pokemon from setting up, which Dragonite with its bulk should be able to achieve - alternately you could run Sub which should prove hard to break if Roosting back to full health and it protects Dragonite from status. I would offer Heal Bell as an option too, but it says it's incompatible for whatever reason.

 

[Berry Juice]

How about Whirlpool Trap Dragonite:

Dragonite @ Binding Band
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Whirlpool
- Toxic
- Roost
- Haze / Sub

Designed to wrack up heavy damage and trap pokemon with the combo of Whirlpool (takes off 1/6 of a pokemon's health with Binding Band for 4-5 turns) plus Toxic. Haze prevents other pokemon from setting up, which Dragonite with its bulk should be able to achieve - alternately you could run Sub which should prove hard to break if Roosting back to full health and it protects Dragonite from status. I would offer Heal Bell as an option too, but it says it's incompatible for whatever reason.

I'm pretty sure Whirlpool + Multiscale is illegal on Dragonite, as Whirlpool is a HGSS-only move, and Multiscale is only available in gen 5.

 

[SketchUp]

I'm pretty sure Whirlpool + Multiscale is illegal on Dragonite, as Whirlpool is a HGSS-only move, and Multiscale is only available in gen 5.

Wrap is legal with Multiscale iirc and does the same thing as Whirlpool. It got better accuracy too

 

[totoTavros]

Wrap is legal with Multiscale iirc and does the same thing as Whirlpool. It got better accuracy too

And then gets wrecked by Gengar.

 

[Berry Juice]

And then gets wrecked by Gengar.

Well, ghosts like Gengar can't be trapped anyways, so yeah.

 

[Jojobobo]

I'm pretty sure Whirlpool + Multiscale is illegal on Dragonite, as Whirlpool is a HGSS-only move, and Multiscale is only available in gen 5.

Thanks for letting me know, it was originally Wrap but I changed it when I thought of Gengar and other ghosts.

 

[totoTavros]

Well, ghosts like Gengar can't be trapped anyways, so yeah.

Interesting, just tried it out on Showdown. Thanks!

 

[firehusky]

How about Whirlpool Wrap Trap Dragonite:

Dragonite @ Binding Band
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Whirlpool Wrap (see below discussion)
- Toxic
- Roost
- Haze / Sub

Designed to wrack up heavy damage and trap pokemon with the combo of Whirlpool Wrap (takes off 1/6 of a pokemon's health with Binding Band for 4-5 turns) plus Toxic. Haze prevents other pokemon from setting up, which Dragonite with its bulk should be able to achieve - alternately you could run Sub which should prove hard to break if Roosting back to full health and it protects Dragonite from status. I would offer Heal Bell as an option too, but it says it's incompatible for whatever reason.

K, I'll add this.
Here's the updated list
Recreant's WP Dragonite Dragon Dance sweeper
DarkBlazeR's Special Life Orb Dragonite
one hitta quitta's Bulky Sub Roost Dragonite
iamfanboy's Phazer Dragonite
TheInsanity's Lure SandNite
Mysteria's Bulky DDnite
Turducken64's Specially Defensive Dragonite
jojobobo's Wrap Trap Dragonite

and since everyone forgot to vote today while I was gone, I guess I'll extend the voting period to tomorrow.
Again, don't vote for your own sets.

 

[heritage]

I really don't think that Wrap thing is even worth it's own set. There are SO many things that you could be using Dragonite for, and you choose that? You'll be doing minuscule damage per turn, and common threats like Heatran, Ferrothorn, Gengar and Skarmory just plain laugh it off. If you have something immune to Toxic on your team, you're pretty much settled. Wrap will be doing next to nothing as well. Frankly, it's useless.

 

[Karxrida]

Why is there a Wrap set at all? This isn't Gen 1 (plus what Recreant said).

 

[firehusky]

Okay, I'll probably remove that set.
Plus you guys really need to vote soon, I'll set an example:

Mysteria's Bulky DDNite

Recreant's WP Dragonite Dragon Dance sweeper - 1
DarkBlazeR's Special Life Orb Dragonite
one hitta quitta's Bulky Sub Roost Dragonite
iamfanboy's Phazer Dragonite - 1
TheInsanity's Lure SandNite - 2
Mysteria's Bulky DDnite - 1
Turducken64's Specially Defensive Dragonite

 

[Celticpride]

TheInsanity's Lure SandNite

 

[BONGMASTER420]

TheInsanity's Lure SandNite

 

[one hitta quitta]

Recreant's WP Dragonite Dragon Dance sweeper

 

[firehusky]

I want to get all my threads onto the same schedule (which is monday). thanks Celticpride for the idea
So I was just kidding, actually, you have from now to sunday to vote :]
P.S. please don't vote for your own sets, thanks! (not saying anyone did)

 

[heritage]

Yeet
iamfanboy's Phazer Dragonite