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The Next Best Thing...

Discussion in 'BW UU' started by fatty, Jan 15, 2013.

  1. fatty

    fatty
    is a Tiering Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2010
    Messages:
    846
    The Next Best Thing...
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    What is this?:

    I for one, along with many others I'm sure, feel as though there is some untapped power within the UU environment. There is substantial evidence for this idea in the form of one commonality for most tiers, UU included: there always seems to be one or more new-fangled, hyped up sets that weren't originally main-stay or seen as "viable" by the community, but somehow has taken the metagame by storm. This can be seen in DPP OU (with Special Lucario transitioning to SD Lucario, Heatran eventually running items other than Choice Scarf, and the influx of ChestoRest Kingdra) in ADV (with the vaunted TyraniBoah now becoming almost an urban myth in comparison to Special and DD Tyranitar, and the increasing popularity of SupeRachi) and in BW OU (with the advent of SubSalac Terrakion, SubDisable Gengar, and ChestoRest Volcarona). Yes, some of these sets may have been found early on with respect to the creation of the tier or fairly recently, the point is, though, that there seems to be an endless supply of effective and potent sets out there yet to be discovered, especially factoring in metagame swings and the possible tier shifts. The purpose of this project will be to systematically subject each and every UU pokemon to a collective body of research in an attempt to uncover these "hidden gems", so to speak, and hopefully spark some creativity throughout the UU community.

    The Process:

    Each week, I will choose a different UU Pokemon, sometimes chosen by random, sometimes chosen by curiousity, of which participants will try to personally create a new set for that is not already on-site or in the process of being put on-site. Participants will be given 5 days to create their set, with discussion about the particular sets being promoted throughout, and on the 6th and 7th day of the week, a vote will be held to choose which user's set represented the most creative and simultaneously competivitely viable set to utilize in the current UU metagame. Once the votes are tallied and a winner is crowned, the set will be archived in the OP and the process will start all over again for the next pokemon specimen.

    What are we looking for?:

    Specifically, I want to stress the importance of the balance between creativity and viability when picking a set to post for the Pokemon in question. There's a very fine line between a "creative" set and a "gimmick", and this project is not meant to produce gimmicks, rather emphasize the ability to think outside the box when using a specific Pokemon in order to maximize it's potential. Having said that, I would also like to deviate from simple one move / item changes. For example, using Lum Berry over Life Orb on an SD Virizion does nothing to show any untapped potential Virizion has because we already have a basic understanding of what SD Virizion is and does, it's just now better at dealing with status and has less power. The same goes for using Iron Head over Stone Edge on SD Cobalion, it doesn't yield productive discussion or results for the project. I am looking for sets that test what we think we know about checks or counters, so-called standards, and what it means to be viable. Maybe a particular option for a Pokemon looks inferior at first glance for that particular pokemon, but dig deeper and try and find what it might mean in the big picture, for the entire team.


    The next test subject is...

    [​IMG]
    Raikou!

    Some things to consider:

    • What is thought to "counter" this pokemon?
    • Is there anyway to bypass this pokemon's so-called "counters?
    • What moves are seldom used on this pokemon, but have the most upside?
    • What niches can this pokemon potentially fill in the current metagame?
    • What opposing pokemon does this pokemon do well against?
    • How can this pokemon benefit it's teammates?
  2. fatty

    fatty
    is a Tiering Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2010
    Messages:
    846
    Archived Sets
    (set name - creator)​

    CB Scrafty - cim
    [​IMG]

    Scrafty @ Choice Band
    Ability: Intimidate
    EVs: 232 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 20 Spe
    Nature: Adamant
    - Hi Jump Kick
    - Crunch
    - Ice Punch
    - Zen Headbutt

    Scrafty's biggest problem is that it can't do much of anything to Crobat and Heracross (and to a lesser extent Gligar), who can both switch into any Scrafty set, outspeed, and KO. While this set doesn't do much to prevent revenge kills, it does make Scrafty a potent threat with no setup, which makes it harder to deal with and just might bait and kill a potential Heracross counter. Any offensive team that ends in a Heracross or Mienshao sweep could benefit from this Scrafty.

    Simple concept - use Intimidate and Scrafty's underrated bulk to come in easily and force a switch, then use Team Preview and your manly prediction skills to pick the right move. Unlike the standard Scrafty, Zen Headbutt always OHKOs Crobat and Heracross after Stealth Rock. Ice Punch gets Crobat 68% of the time and will always 2HKO Gligar and force it to Roost every turn - loses 1 on 1 in the long run to hax or a CH. HJK and Crunch are your standard issue STAB attacks - HJK is particularly useful because (1) since CB is so rare, no Ghosts would recklessly switch in, and (2) its high Base Power makes up for his rather low Attack stat.

    Flame Charge Chandelure - TPO3
    [​IMG]

    Chandelure @Life Orb
    Trait: Flame Body
    Modest Nature
    16 HP/252 SpAtk/4 SpDef/236 Spe
    ~Flame Charge
    ~Fire Blast
    ~Shadow Ball
    ~Hidden Power Fighting/Energy Ball

    The idea with this set would be to get the speed of a Scarf Chandelure, but still maintain all the power you want out of something with base 145 Special Attack. The 236 Speed EVs allow you to always get passed Weavile when you are at +1. You can run max speed if you want, but you don't get passed much more. Just the random Modest Scarf Rotom-H or Modest Scarf Porygon-Z. Flame Body so you don't get ruined by Trace Porygon2/Porygon-Z. I suppose its also worth mentioning that with Ghost typing, you're immune to Mach Punch, Extremespeed, and Quick Attack (lol.) Weak to Sucker Punch but that's the price you pay, I guess. This set is really gimmicky and needs Spikes or a lot of residual damage to work real effectively, but the payoff could be pretty high.

    Choice Specs Abomasnow - LionKingMax
    [​IMG]

    Abomasnow @Choice Specs
    Ability: Snow Warning
    Modest Nature
    EVs: 252hp/ 252spa/ 4spd
    -Blizzard
    -Giga Drain
    -Focus Blast
    -Hidden Power Ground/ Rock

    Since Abomasnow is slow his best option is to force switches and hit with the appropriate spec-boosted move. With this, he's able to hit 13 types for SE damage. Blizzard for STAB, Giga Drain for recovery, Focus Miss 2HKO the usual Snorlax sets (3HKO on full sdef evs) and other Abomasnows. Hidden Power Ground/ Rock nails the common fire-type switchs to Abomasnow. Evs gives the most bulk possible while getting as much power as possible from modest+specs since Abomasnow's speed is garbage.

    Bulk Up Mew - Ace Emerald
    [​IMG]

    Mew @ Leftovers
    Ability: Synchronize
    EVs: 152 HP / 104 SpD / 252 Spe
    Nature: Jolly
    -Bulk Up
    -Zen Headbutt
    -Drain Punch
    -Taunt / Heal Bell

    This set is a much lower risk sweeper, with almost the same return. It uses the bulk granted by investment and Bulk Up to set up more times and become a fast, reasonably bulky sweeper. The first three moves are straightforward: Bulk Up for boosting, Zen Headbutt for a STAB with decent neutral coverage, and Drain Punch to provide coverage and healing. After one Bulk Up, Heracross can never OHKO Mew with Megahorn, while +1 Zen Headbutt always OHKOs back. Scarf Krookodile is hardpressed to even 2HKO with Crunch, and Drain Punch grabs a lot of health back. Chandelure, while it cannot OHKO with Shadow Ball, is trouble if Mew isn't set up, but is OHKO'd by +2 Zen Headbutt 75% of the time with Stealth Rock up. The choice between Taunt and Heal Bell is hard however. Lacking Taunt opens Mew up to pHazers, but lacking Heal Bell hurts against the many Scald users of the tier. The EVs are designed to give Mew a good chance of beating standard Raikou at +1, as well as provide some bulk investment. LO Raikou never 2HKOs with Thunderbolt, and even Choice Specs can fall to +1 Drain Punch + Zen Headbutt when Stealth Rock is up. The biggest advantage of the set is that the Pokemon that wall it are steamrolled by the Nasty Plot set, so they often don't switch in until boosts have been accumulated. Even so, this set has serious problems with Cofagrigus and Slowbro, as well as minor problems with other bulky Water-types.










    Metal Sound Zapdos - Pokemazter
    [​IMG]
    Zapdos@Leftovers
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 120 HP / 252 SpA / 136 Spe
    Timid Nature
    - Metal Sound
    - Thunderbolt
    - Heat Wave
    - Hidden Power [Grass]

    Good 'ol Metal Sound Zapdos. Zapdos tends to attract Pokemon with loads of special bulk, and is typically forced to switch out against these said Pokemon. However, thanks to Metal Sound, Zapdos is now fully capable of 2HKOing SpD Snorlax, Umbreon, and Porygon2, leaving very few Pokemon that would actually appreciate switching-in on Zapdos. The goal of this set is to more or less predict a switch to Snorlax, Umbreon, or another common Zapdos switch-in, catch it with Metal Sound on the switch-in, and ruin its day. Thunderbolt provides Zapdos with a source of STAB, nailing a plethora of types for solid damage. Heat Wave melts the odd Steel-, Ice-, Grass-, or Bug-type in the tier, furthermore limiting the safe-switches into Zapdos. Hidden Power Grass rounds off Zapdos' coverage, punishing the Ground- and Rock-types that want to switch-in on Thunderbolt or Heat Wave. This Zapdos doesn't have to be a standalone either, as it cannot check everything in UU. The Special Defence drops from Metal Sound open up possibilities for other special sweepers to tear holes in the opposing team, such as Agility Porygon-Z or Mew. A neat little bonus regarding Metal Sound, but it can also act as a phazing move, as very few Pokemon want to be staying in on Zapdos with a reduced Special Defence stat. Pairing this variant of Zapdos with teammates that can supply Spikes and Stealth Rock is a good idea, as it turns many 2HKOs of Zapdos' into OHKOs.

    Special Defense Virizion - PTJon7
    [​IMG]
    Virizion @ Leftovers
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 SDef / 4 Def
    Calm Nature
    - Giga Drain
    - Toxic
    - Roar/Taunt
    - Synthesis

    I figure Virizion would work pretty well as a special wall, considering its very good special bulk. I think this set would work best for stalling purposes, thanks to Toxic and Synthesis. Roar or Taunt for general utility purposes as well.

    Choice Specs Xatu - Pokemazter
    [​IMG]
    Xatu @ Choice Specs
    Trait: Magic Bounce
    EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    - Psyshock / Psychic
    - Signal Beam
    - Heat Wave
    - Giga Drain / U-turn

    Another relatively simple complex, Choice Specs Xatu catches a lot of opponents off guard, easily obtaining a momentum shift. Capable of coming in on common hazard setters, such as Bronzong or Roserade, Xatu is then free to start causing some major hurt. Psyshock is the ideal STAB move here, allowing Xatu to beat CM Suicune and Snorlax, but Psychic can be used if more power is desired. Signal Beam gives Xatu something to hit opposing Umbreon and other Dark-types with, as it does hit harder than Hidden Power Fighting and carries a nice chance for confusion. Signal Beam gives Xatu a way of dealing with opposing Psychic-types too. Heat Wave incinerates Steel-, Grass-, and bug-type switch-ins to Xatu, clearing paths for its teammates. The last slot is mostly preference based, as Giga Drain allows Xatu to bust Rhyperior and Swampert open after having bounced their Stealth Rock back while recovering any lost HP. However, U-turn may be ran instead to preserve momentum and potentially spare Xatu from being trapped by Pursuit.

    Pokemon that really require niche Pokemon removed before they can attempt a sweep, such as Victini, Sharpedo, and to an extent Raikou, appreciate this Xatu spread, as the surprise factor is typically enough to open up some holes and give those said teammembers a chance to sweep. This Xatu also works well on offensive teams that cannot afford to run a Spinner nor their own hazard setter, as it can technically fill both those roles while maintaining an offensive presence.

    SubSalac Darmanitan - kokoloko
    [​IMG]
    Darmanitan @ Salac Berry
    Trait: Sheer Force
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Jolly / Adamant Nature
    - Fire Punch
    - Belly Drum
    - Endure
    - Earthquake

    This works because Darmanitan is one of the single best Pokemon in the whole game at forcing switches. Belly Drum on the switch to Slowking / Slowbro / Rhyperior / Gligar / Suicune / Milotoc (Suicune and Slowbro will need to be weakened a little beforehard if they're defensive variants), and nuke it. Endure as they go to their revenge killer, and proceed to nuke everything else. Obviously doesn't work if their Scarfer is Mienshao / Flygon, but if its Heracross / Krookodile, you're golden. Adamant gives you a 93.75% chance to OHKO Slowbro after Stealth Rock, but then you're slower than ScarfCross at +1, so pick your poison.

    PS. only use if you have excess cojones

    Work Up Meloetta - kokoloko
    [​IMG][​IMG]
    Meloetta @ Life Orb
    Trait: Serene Grace
    EVs: 104 Atk / 188 SpA / 216 Spe
    Naive / Hasty Nature
    - Psychic
    - Thunderbolt
    - Work Up
    - Close Combat

    Basically takes slow teams and shoves it right where the sun don't shine. At +1, Close Combat OHKOs the standard 0/52 CB Snorlax after SR while Umbreon takes a minimum of 70% (weaken it a bit, cause Foul Play will hurt). Thunderbolt OHKOs Slowbro 100% of the time, and after Stealth Rock, 252/0 Suicune 75% of the time and 248/0 Slowking 100% of the time. The standard 252/0 Togekiss is also OHKOd after SR (90% minimum). Enough Speed for max Speed non-scarf Heracross/Nidoking/Suicune/Kingdra.

    Basically pair it with paralysis support and watch it demolish offense on top of already wrecking defensive teams. It walks over its typical counters.

    Sunny Day Flygon - blarajan
    [​IMG]
    Flygon (M) @ Life Orb / Heat Rock
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Sunny Day
    - Draco Meteor
    - Fire Blast
    - SolarBeam

    I love this thing. It works best on a Sun team (clearly) as it both appreciates Sun being up before it comes in and something setting up Sun for it. The reason this works is the ease in which it lures Swampert, Rhyperior (sometimes), Bronzong (almost always), Gligar, etc and nails them with corresponding moves. It's actually just super good. Heat Rock can be used but it's weak.

    252 SpAtk Life Orb Flygon SolarBeam vs 252 HP/252 SpDef Swampert (+SpDef) : 95.05% - 111.88% (68.75% chance to OHKO) <==OHKO with Stealth Rock

    252 SpAtk Life Orb Flygon SolarBeam vs 252 HP/252 SpDef Rhyperior (+SpDef) : 88.48% - 103.69% (25% chance to OHKO) <==OHKO with Spikes

    252 SpAtk Life Orb Flygon Draco Meteor vs 252 HP/0 SpDef Gligar: 91.62% - 107.78% (50% chance to OHKO) <==OHKO with Stealth Rock

    252 SpAtk Life Orb Flygon Fire Blast vs 252 HP/0 SpDef Bronzong: 95.86% - 113.02% (75% chance to OHKO) <==OHKO with Stealth Rock (has Sun)

    Nasty Plot Crobat - TPO3
    [​IMG]
    Crobat @Life Orb
    Trait: Inner Focus
    Timid nature
    116 HP/252 SpAtk/4 SpDef/136 Spe
    ~Nasty Plot
    ~Sludge Bomb/Air Slash
    ~Heat Wave
    ~Giga Drain

    Like the old Nasty Plot Crobat in DPP, although tweaked a bit for UU. Nasty Plot to double special attack, Sludge Bomb is the main STAB option, although Air Slash is a fine choice as well. You hit a wider array of pokemon super-effectively with Air Slash, but Sludge Bomb has more power, and can take out Zapdos/Raikou. Heat Wave hits Bronzong and other Steel-types, Giga Drain will hit Rhyperior. The basic goal here is just to try and lure in some of Crobat's usual counters like Rhyperior or Bronzong and then KO them. Here are some amusing calcs

    +2 Timid Life Orb Crobat Heat Wave vs 252 HP/4 SpDef Bold Levitate Bronzong: 98.22-115.98% -- Always an OHKO after SR

    +2 Timid Life Orb Crobat Sludge Bomb vs 4 HP/0 SpDef Timid Raikou: 79.5-93.48% -- Chance to OHKO after SR, always after SR and 1 layer spikes

    +2 Timid Life Orb Crobat Sludge Bomb vs 4 HP/0 SpDef Zapdos: 86.65-101.86% -- Always an OHKO after SR

    All Hail Raikou! - Icecream

    [​IMG]
    Raikou @ Expert Belt
    Rash Nature
    4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    -Thunderbolt / Volt Switch
    -Weather Ball
    -Aura Sphere
    -Hidden Power Grass

    I don't remember who came up with this set, so props to them. This Raikou is meant to be used on hail teams, making Weather Ball a 100 BP Ice-type attack. This thing is really freaking strong, as it is capable of 2HKOing most of the tier. Expert Belt is chosen for two reasons. For one, it's a nice bluff for a choice item. And two, Hail Damage + Life Orb recoil adds up real fast, so this is just a way for Raikou to maintain its longevity. Thunderbolt is Raikou's best STAB, while Volt switch is slightly weaker, it provides some nice momentum. Weather Ball is the pièce de résistance, as it's capable of doing serious damage to things like Roserade and Shaymin. Aura Sphere is mainly for Umbreon and Porygon2. Finally, Hidden Power Grass obliterates Rhyperior and Swampert. Give this thing Hail and entry hazard support then you're good to go.
  3. cim

    cim happiness is such hard work
    is a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2007
    Messages:
    5,412
    I haven't used Scrafty much, but a set I tried a little that I've been meaning to test some more seems to fit this challenge really well.

    Scrafty's biggest problem is that it can't do much of anything to Crobat and Heracross (and to a lesser extent Gligar), who can both switch into any Scrafty set, outspeed, and KO. While this set doesn't do much to prevent revenge kills, it does make Scrafty a potent threat with no setup, which makes it harder to deal with and just might bait and kill a potential Heracross counter. Any offensive team that ends in a Heracross or Mienshao sweep could benefit from this Scrafty.

    Scrafty @ Choice Band
    Ability: Intimidate
    EVs: 232 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 20 Spe (can run up to 220 EVs to catch 0 Speed Suicune / Gligar, but HP is really nice)
    Nature: Adamant
    - Hi Jump Kick
    - Crunch
    - Ice Punch
    - Zen Headbutt

    Simple concept - use Intimidate and Scrafty's underrated bulk to come in easily and force a switch, then use Team Preview and your manly prediction skills to pick the right move. Unlike the standard Scrafty, Zen Headbutt always OHKOs Crobat and Heracross after Stealth Rock. Ice Punch gets Crobat 68% of the time and will always 2HKO Gligar and force it to Roost every turn - loses 1 on 1 in the long run to hax or a CH. HJK and Crunch are your standard issue STAB attacks - HJK is particularly useful because (1) since CB is so rare, no Ghosts would recklessly switch in, and (2) its high Base Power makes up for his rather low Attack stat.

    Another option for Scrafty is Substitute + Focus Punch, which gives it more ability to respond to revenge kills and a bit more damage output than standard Scrafty, but it needs a Life Orb to have a shot at one-hitting Crobat and Heracross with Zen Headbutt, and obviously you can't run 5 moves so you lose to Gligar.
  4. Cassen

    Cassen

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2013
    Messages:
    16
    LO Scrafty has a lot of 2HKO potential without any boosts, and with Super Fang, many of them become OHKO's even without SR Damage.

    (Scrafty) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Intimidate
    EVs: 252 HP / 56 Atk / 180 Def / 20 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Super Fang
    - Drain Punch
    - Crunch
    - Ice Punch/Dragon Tail/Taunt

    The idea is to have Scrafty come in on either a physically based pokemon that fears its stabs (Weavile, Ambipom, Krookodile, Sharpedo, ect.) or any poke that fears its stabs and can't hit back (Ghost-Types without HP Fighting, Umbreon). Because of Intimidate, Scrafty typically forces the opponent to switch into one of its usual checks or counters - that's where Super Fang comes in. Anything coming in will be at 50% health or below assuming hazards are up, allowing Scrafty to either stay in for a OHKO, or to leave and allow one of its proper team mates to come in and deal with the weakened pokemon. In either case, having a pokemon lose 50% of its health upon switching makes that pokemon much easier to handle for either Scrafty or a team mate. It can, in some cases, force another switch if the opponent doesn't want to risk losing a pokemon - this makes hazard support a nice pair with this Scrafty.

    Super Fang does not incur recoil damage from LO, making it a safe spam-able move on anything looking to check/counter Scrafty, as well as allowing you to not reveal what Scrafty's held item is. The only thing immune to Super Fang are ghost types, and those are all dealt with nicely thanks to Crunch.

    The given bulk along with Intimidate allows a 100% healthy Scrafty to never be 2HKO's by Scarf Victini's V Create and CB Flygon's Outrage even after SR Damage upon switching into the first hit (Allowing it to switch in with intimidate and counter with Crunch/Ice Punch Respectively, though Scrafty will die if he connects a hit with either of them due to LO recoil). It can also live a Brave Bird from Stallbreaker Crobat and retaliate with an Ice Punch, even without Intimidate.

    Speed EV's allow it to outspeed uninvested base 60 speed poke's and below - the notable ones include Swampert, Empoleon, Porygon2 - allowing it to win 1-on-1 thanks to Super Fang and Drain Punch. The Speed EV's also makes Taunt and Dragon Tail somewhat viable moves, since Swamperts and Empoleons that pack phasing moves can be possible answers the opponent might throw at you to counter Scrafty due to most folks most assuming Scrafty is packing a set-up move. With Taunt, Scrafty is also able to Anti-lead certain Physically based pokes that are slower than it; notable ones include Rhyperior, Registeel, and Bronzong (again, Scrafty can beat them all 1-on-1 thanks to Super Fang and Drain Punch). Ice Punch however is the preferred move, since it gives Scrafty a way to deal Flygon, Gligar, and Crobat.
  5. vigi

    vigi

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2012
    Messages:
    35
    After seeing Kyurem-B tearing apart OU with it's SubRoost set, I thought maybe Scrafty could run something similar, using Rest + Shed Skin, but I couldn't manage to use it to it's full potential. It's supposed to look more or less like this:

    Scrafty @ Leftovers
    Trait: Shed Skin
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 SDef / 4 Def
    Careful Nature
    - Substitute
    - Rest
    - Bulk Up
    - Dragon Tail
  6. Nyara

    Nyara

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2012
    Messages:
    287
    I'm not doing or posting a set because I should test a lot a set to see if that's viable or not, so, on it's place, I'll just post an refference post to help others to make sets for this little guy.

    Discarded stuff and why:

    Show Hide
    Let's see... I'll start discarding moves: Hyper Beam, Focus Blast, Sludge Bomb, Round, Snarl, Incinerate, Dark Pulse, Dragon Pulse, Snore, Hidden Power (any), Double Team, Leer, Swagger, Work Up. Yeah, I know he can Work Up and can use a special attack in that way, but that's massive outclassed by any physical move on it's repertory: Focus Punch > Giga Impact > Hyper Beam, Hi Jump Kick > Focus Blast, Poison Jab > Sludge Bomb, and stuff, even with positive nature and max inversion, it will still deal more physical damage than special with each move, and any physical wall you could want to avoid can be broken better by inverting on attack. Scrafty have Amnesia, so, it doesn't see any use to Snarl at all, but I'm not completely discarding it as it can help a partner to setup. Incinerate is an horrible move, and without special attack, it will do nothing with any Hidden Power. Double Team is banned. He can use Dragon Dance or Bulk Up on place of Leer. There are a lot better users of Swagger, and Work Up nope because it does have an a lot better physical stat and movepool.

    With the almost obvious discards done, now let's proceed with the more complex ones:

    Attacks:

    Giga Impact: Hi Jump Kick is always stronger, the possible recoil is better than the recharge turn.
    Strength: Outclassed by Return.
    Headbutt: Usually outclassed by Return/Rock Climb
    Retaliate: Usually outclassed by Hi Jump Kick.
    Facade: Usually outclassed by Hi Jump Kick.
    Faint Attack: Outclassed by Crunch. (Evasion Clause)
    Rock Smash: Usually outclassed by Brick Break + Dragon Dance/Bulk Up.
    Outrage: Usually outclassed by Hi Jump Kick.
    Iron Head: Usually outclassed by Rock Slide.
    Iron Tail: Outclassed by any Figthing Move.

    Support:

    Attract: It usually doesn't work more than the half of the time.
    Detect: Outclassed by Protect, and Scrafy doesn't need more PP.
    Scary Face: You're usually better using Rock Tomb or Low Sweep.


    So, it leaves us with the next list of viable moves:

    Prediction: Focus Punch, Low Sweep, Rock Tomb
    Figthing (STAB): Hi Jump Kick, Drain Punch, Brick Break, Low Kick
    Dark (STAB): Payback, Crunch, Foul Play
    Rock: Stone Edge, Rock Tomb, Head Smash, Rock Slide, Smack Down
    Coverage (1): Zen Headbutt, Poison Jab, Dragon Claw, Rock Climb, Return
    Coverage (2): Ice Punch, ThunderPunch, Fire Punch
    Helpers: Fake Out, Super Fang, Dual Chop, Dig, Snarl
    Surprise/Gimnnicky: Fling, Knock Off, Thief, Counter, Grass Knot

    Support: Torment, Rain Dance, Sunny Day, Taunt
    Extra Moves: Substitute, Rest, Sleep Talk, Snatch, Protect, Spite, Sand-Attack
    Setup Moves: Amnesia, Bulk Up, Iron Defense, Dragon Dance
    Phazing: Dragon Tail, Roar

    More viable options are at the left, also, it's ordered in "groups" as how you could use the move, for example, we'll use Hi Jump Kick almost at the same circunstances as Drain Punch.

    Some synergy notes:

    Don't use Roar or Foul Play with Bulk Up, use Dragon Tail, then.
    Don't use Payback with Dragon Dance, use Crunch, then.
    Don't use Focus Punch without Substitute, use Hi Jump Kick, then.

    Don't use Low Sweep with Rock Tomb, just use one
    Don't use Brick Break with Drain Punch or Low Kick, just use one

    Don't use Roar or Dragon Tail with Dragon Dance. (May exist exceptions)
    Don't use Weather without abussers and synergy cores.
    Don't use Crunch and Payback on the same set.
    Don't use Foul Play on any offensive set.

    Usually, don't use Focus Punch/Phazing + Low Sweep/Rock Tomb
    Usually, don't use more than one Rock Type move on the same set.

    Amnesia usually comes handy with Rest, the same goes for Work Up.
    Rest should only be used with Intimidate activated or with Shed Skin.

    As notes comes, Low Sweep and Rock Tomb really helps to ease the prediction, but for make them work you need to spend a lot on speed, or you should be starting to use Dragon Dance, if all fails, it still helps to your team, anyway. Hi Jump Kick deals huge damage to anything that doesn't resist it, even without attack investment or buff, so, it should be considered on any set, but it can be forgoe or can be combined with Low Sweep or Drain Punch, depending if you're using a slow or kinda fast EV spread. Dual Chop should only used to break Substitutes or Focus Sashes, and it needs high inversion on attack, but it can comes handy as it makes Scrafty not so weak against Substitute sets.

    I highly recomend Fake Out on any offensive set as it can allow you to land a good number of extra K.O's, and can comes even more handy if the target is badly poisoned. Rock Slide should be considered over other Rock moves if you're using Dragon Dance, as the flinch rate and extra accuracy can comes really handy. Head Smash is great, it deals massive damage, but Scrafty have low HP, so, don't expect to use it more as final struggle against some Pokémon. As Foul Play comes, you can use a defensive EV spread and abuse of Foul Play + High Jump Kick, it deals pretty good damage, but if you're unsure if your targets will have high attack; then combine it with Amnesia, they'll don't bother to attack you with special attacks in that way.

    If Crobat and Heracross are on the rival's team, then play with more care, with Crobat try to spam more rock attacks or Zen Headbutts to make it think twice before switching-in, while with Heracross you can just spam Zen Headbutt to make it hard to switich-in, or use Rock Tomb to ease the prediction. Scrafty have the moves and the enough power to deal with them, but if they get a free switch while you're using a Fighthing or other coverage move, then you should run!

    RestTalks sets seems viable, too. Torment can help A LOT on any stalling set, but a set like that should use Leaftovers and/or have Rest. Scrafty is also a pretty reliable weather setter, it can't abuse of it, but it does have the abilities, typing, and stats to do the job well, it also gives good defensive and ofensive type coverage with Rain and Sun teams.

    FullBarrier Sets with Iron Defense + Amnesia + Roar can do a massive great job with stalling and racking up hazards damage, and Scrafty can overcome it's counters with the enough boosts, anyway, a set like that should have Leaftovers + Rest / Drain Punch.

    Super Fang is cool on any set, just be sure with the calculator of the damage output of each normal attack, as you will know better with what move make company to Super Fang, and know how to play around it.
  7. Metal Sonic

    Metal Sonic Turn it up!
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    A very good sweeper set. It is very creative, and powerful.


    Scrafty @ Salac Berry
    Trait: Moxie
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 Def
    Jolly Nature
    - Substitute
    - Dragon Dance
    - Crunch
    - Drain Punch




    This set is pioneered by myself and also was deemed 'unviable' by others, I personally think it is powerful especially with Moxie Abuse and the Salac Berry pinch speed boost.


    Crunch + Drain Punch gives almost unresisted coverage except for Heracross/Toxicroak. Therefore these pokemon should be taken out first(they're counters to all scrafty, anyway)

    The Salac Berry is there to give that pinch speed boost, especially when Scrafty is so slow. Others may argue that it is redundant with Dragon Dance, but when you consider that +2 Scrafty is still outsped by majority of Scarf users, A +3 speed boosted by Salac is perfectly reasonable. Especially when you're in a pinch, you can spam substitiute and then get the speed boost, then OHKO the now-slower opponent.


    Substitute is used to facilitate the salac berry, and take advantage of switches. IF a speedier opponent switches in, Substutute will come in more handy than a Dragon Dance will. Subspam till activating Salac Berry, then DDance and sweep.

    Drain Punch is also useful for recovering HP which is lost by subbing.

    Because Substitute is there to absorb status as well, Shed Skin is not needed. Put moxie instead. With Every Kill, you get more powerful. With +3 Speed, you will never be outsped by any opponent. At +3 speed and with a few boosts, its GG.

    So:
    1.Sub on switches/Status moves,
    2a) If a scarfed revenger threat comes in, Spam Substitute until Salac activates. Then Dragon Dance and Kill.
    2b) If a revenger comes in but you are sure it cannot OHKO, you can decide to spam Dragon Dance instead. Kill.
    3)Acquire Moxie Boosts.
    4)GG



    This set has been tried and tested in multiple(a lot) UU battles, and practical tests and probing has proven it to actually work.
    __________________
  8. fatty

    fatty
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    Nice sets guys, keep them coming! Thanks nyara for that mini-guide for scrafty, it looks pretty helpful in sort of setting guidelines of what is potentially viable and what is not. I've used CB Scrafty for a bit after flareblitz posted about it and it is indeed actually very effective seeing that CB HJK hits like a truck. I'm also intrigued by that subsalac set, metal sonic, as it seems to be a creative way to bypass scrafty's annoying speed problem and make good use of moxie, and coupling it with dragon dance is very unique for a subsalac sweeper.
  9. TPO3

    TPO3 Never practice; Always perform.

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    This is a great idea for a thread.

    Scrafty @Coba Berry
    Trait: Shed Skin
    Jolly Nature
    16 HP/252 Atk/4 SpDef/236 Spe
    ~Dragon Dance
    ~Hi Jump Kick
    ~Crunch
    ~Ice Punch

    I can't come up with anything more creative, so I guess this one will have to do. Really just an item and ability change, as well as an EV tweak. Coba Berry reduces damage from Flying-type pokemon, so Scrafty can gain an extra boost or two. It also is a way to lure Crobat and Tornadus, which can make it easier for a teammate such as Heracross to sweep. Heracross would no longer need to try an predict when to use Stone Edge. The EV Spread is kinda tailor-made for the set. 252 Speed allows scrafty to outrun Tornadus by 1 point at +1, but with Coba berry, you don't need to. 236 Speed allows you to outrun base 108 and below at +1, so Cobalion and Virizion. 4 Special Defense means random stuff like Scarf Porygon-Z won't get a download boost. Max attack lets it hit as hard as it can, and the rest is dumped into HP for some bulk. Shed Skin is preferred over Moxie so you don't care as much about status. The goal of the set is to get an extra boost against Flying-types anyways, so you don't really need Moxie anyways.
  10. Mazz

    Mazz Retired
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    I've found that using Drain Punch > Hi Jump Kick to be very useful on this set, as it allows Scrafty to recover HP due to that lack of Leftovers. There's a slight trade-off for power, but once you reach +2 or +3, it really doesn't matter.
  11. fatty

    fatty
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    There's been a slight change of plans. Due to the fact that this project focuses all of it's power on a single Pokemon, a whole week left to dissect it's viable sets seems to be a bit too long. Because of this, I will be shortening the time period for posting sets from now on to about 2-3 days. This will help speed up the process and hopefully prevent downtime that leads to inactivity.

    With that said, it's seems as though we already have a fair amount of solid choices to choose from, so I will be starting the voting period... now! Thanks for all the sets and input from everyone so far, and let the best set win!

    *As for voting, if voters could just post the user's name who posted the most viable and/or intriguing set in bold, followed by a short, intelligent reasoning for as to why you chose this set, it would be much appreciated.
  12. Rohail

    Rohail Vaporeon <3
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    cim's CB set is what my vote goes to
    The reason for this is because I have tried out all these sets, and CB was the most resourceful. When Scrafty gets sent out, people recklessly switch in their Dusclops or Cofa expecting me to set up and then proceed to burn me. Instead they get to eat a Crunch to the face and then I can pull of a clean sweep with my Heracross.
  13. TPO3

    TPO3 Never practice; Always perform.

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    I like cim's CB Scrafty set. Despite the fact that Scrafty doesn't hit as hard as Heracross or Mienshao, I think the explanation that CIM gives makes it a viable CB user. +1 HJK is going to hit pretty hard anyways. On top of this, Scrafty has great bulk, a couple resistances, and Intimidate, which will allow it to switch in more than once. It can also nab a few of its usual counters, in Zapdos, Crobat, and Heracross, which could potentially turn the tide in your favor.
  14. Nyara

    Nyara

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    I vote for the cim's set.

    Not to much to say, it may look like the more simplest set ever, but it actually works to bypass it's counters and allows Scrafty to punch things hard and take good use of it's bulk with Intimidate and type, it's really simple, yet effective, it really hits like a truck while helping it's team. Oh, yeah, I could rather change Crunch for Payback as Scrafty will rarely outspeed something weak or neutral to Crunch, and it needs all the power that it can get, but it's still the best set.

    From there, those will be only comments of the other sets to improve them.

    Show Hide
    About the other sets, Cassen's Super Fang Scrafty works pretty well, too, as it take a fantastic good use of it's good bulk and makes a wonderful synergy of offensive power + defensive power with Life Orb + Super Fang, but I could rather suggest the inclusion of Zen Headbutt on place of Ice Fang; you change Flygon for hit Crobat and Heracross's switch's-in harder, and having a best answer against stall teams with Poison Pokémon. I could voted for you, but the set is kinda weak to Spikes and Toxic Spikes as you'll have to switch-out too offen, and while Scrafty's bulky is pretty good, it will not endure enough with the recoil of Life Orb, or forgoing Leaftovers or Rest + Cleric Support. It does need more support, and the Choice Banded of cim doesn't need support at all and do the job almost as well as this, but it can comes handy on stall teams with Rapid Spinners. Best part: Easing prediction on a slow guy is really, really great. Oh, yeah, also, change Crunch for Payback, he will not outspeed anything important that may see Crunch a better option as most of the ghost, psychic guys and stuff are actually fasters.

    I don't really like the other sets; Scrafty is too slow to put a Substitute set + Pinch Berry well as it's prone to Taunt, phazers, walls, Toxic Spikes, and stuff. TP03's sets is the best aproach to the concept, as it can bypass some of it's counters and use them as setup baits; a really wonderful idea, but again, Scrafty's bulky without HP investment or Intimidate is nothing good at all, so it may be hard for that Scrafty to find a time to set up and sweep on the game, and even if he gets the power, it's still prone to being revenge killed before of time, it can act as a good cleanner, but there're best cleanners that doesn't tend to fail at the job, while Scrafty can fail at doing it.

    Metal Sonic's set; the Salac Berry one have a huge potential as sweeper, but it does fail to the classic problems of Pinch Berries sets on slow guys, it's prone to revenge killer, and it can't do nothing against it's counters. High-risk, but high-reward, good, but not what I'm finding, and worst when it does need team support.
  15. Warb

    Warb

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    My vote goes to cim's CB Scrafty.
    The way I see it, Scrafty is one of the most prominent Crobat baits in the UU metagame. Being a versed Crobat user myself, I can guarantee that whenever Scrafty comes in, a Crobat switch-in will follow right after. The reason is simple: Neither DD nor Bulk Up Scrafty is able to beat Crobat 1on1. DD is outsped and OHKOed even after +1 speed, while BulkUp gets 2HKOed while not being able to deal enough damage in return due to the lack of attack investment.
    Banded Scrafty perfectly abuses this common knowledge (I guess this kind of knowledge is not that common on the ladder, but experienced UU players all know important facts like these) and punishes the Crobat switch-in with a straight OHKO after rocks. Now suddenly, the opponent's most important check to Roserade, Shaymin, Specs Yanmega, Heracross, Mienshao, Virizion, Machamp, Hitmontop and to a certain extent Umbreon is gone. Also, seeing as most people (myself included) use only ONE real Fighting check on their teams, it will be often the case where Crobat fulfills that particular role (I have honestly never seen Crobat and Gligar on the same team, I didn't look it up in the December stats though, so I might be wrong on that). With Crobat eliminated fairly early in the game, suddenly Heracross and friends can safely spam that STAB move with one less worry (because Psychics and Ghosts are also handled by Scrafty just fine, GOD if Scrafty just had access to Pursuit, it would be so damn good!).

    TPO3's Coba Berry DD set is also a very nice idea, able to get to +2 Speed in the face of Crobat and then proceed to threaten everything on the opposing team. BUT, +2 speed will still fail to outspeed positive natured Base 95 Pokémon with a Choice Scarf, which will ultimately hinder this set's sweeping potential (given that Scrafty took one Brave Bird already with the Coba Berry, there will be only around 50% HP left which won't be enough to tank an incoming scarfer's hit).

    Lastly, with all due respect, I don't see the point of SubSalac Scrafty at all.
    There is simply no way that particular Scrafty set is gonna do anything to Crobat at all. Scrafty will either get up one DD or a Sub on the Crobat switch-in. In the former case, Crobat will just kill Scrafty off as it does with every other DD Scrafty. In the latter case, it will just taunt you to prevent you from Subbing down to your Salac Berry, after which it can just get rid of your sub, roost up once or twice (Crunch does 34-40% to standard Crobat, factoring in SR and Black Sludge, Scrafty can't 2HKO barring crits and 2 high damage rolls) and proceed to kill Scrafty afterwards.

    tl;dr = cim's CB Scrafty wins for me, because it strays from the usual sweeping strategy in favor of a more focused niche stragety of eliminating common Fighting checks to ease the sweep of another Fighting type for later.
    (btw, I didn't mention Gligar simply because Gligar can be checked by a variety of other Pokémon, while Crobat can be a potent threat on its own being arguably the best offensive pivot in the entire tier)

    edit: I took too long on replying, got ninja'd by a bunch of people :x
  16. fatty

    fatty
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    As much as I like the other sets posted here, I too will have to go with cim. I've actually used CB Scrafty extensively in conjunction with SD Cobalion (they're some of my two favorite fighters because they actually bring defensive synergy to a team) and it works beautifully. In fact, it's actually one of my favorite pokemon to lead with due to the good matchups it has against a lot of hazard layers, acting like a DPP Machamp. It's even more impressive during the midgame, though, 2HKOing the majority of the tier with the respective coverage move. Intimidate is just the cherry on top, allowing it switch in on a surprising amount of threats and acting as a psuedo revenge killer.

    I'll be keeping voting open for a little while longer, but after that I will crown the winner and move on to the next UU specimen.

    Edit: Alright then, it's unanimous, cim's CB Scrafty is the winner. Thanks for all the other good Scrafty sets posted, but cim's set proved to exemplify the greatest amount of creativity and viability, showing us yet again there's great sets out there begging to be discovered. CB Scrafty will be archived in the second post, and with that, let's move on to Mon #2. Per RT.'s humble request, this period we will be focusing our attention on the ominous light fixture of death, Chandelure!

    Same rules apply, go at it!
  17. TPO3

    TPO3 Never practice; Always perform.

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    Chandelure @Life Orb
    Trait: Flame Body
    Modest Nature
    16 HP/252 SpAtk/4 SpDef/236 Spe
    ~Flame Charge
    ~Fire Blast
    ~Shadow Ball
    ~Hidden Power Fighting/Energy Ball

    The idea with this set would be to get the speed of a Scarf Chandelure, but still maintain all the power you want out of something with base 145 Special Attack. The 236 Speed EVs allow you to always get passed Weavile when you are at +1. You can run max speed if you want, but you don't get passed much more. Just the random Modest Scarf Rotom-H or Modest Scarf Porygon-Z. Flame Body so you don't get ruined by Trace Porygon2/Porygon-Z. I suppose its also worth mentioning that with Ghost typing, you're immune to Mach Punch, Extremespeed, and Quick Attack (lol.) Weak to Sucker Punch but that's the price you pay, I guess. This set is really gimmicky and needs Spikes or a lot of residual damage to work real effectively, but the payoff could be pretty high.
  18. Santuga

    Santuga

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    Chandelure @ Leftovers
    Trait: Flash Fire
    Modest Nature
    152 HP / 252 SpAtk / 4 SpDef / 100 Spe
    ~Flamethrower
    ~Taunt
    ~Substitute / Will-O-Wisp
    ~Pain Split / Will-O-Wisp

    This set makes Chandelure a three-purpose Pokemon: Spinblocker, Stallbreaker and Special Attacker. Not running a heavy speed investment might seem a bit wierd for a Chandelure, but above 80 base Speed, the only Pokemon which don't run max or close to max Speed are Gligar, Suicune, Roserade, Milotic, Togekiss, and Xatu, and this spread allows Chandelure to outspeed them all with the exception of Xatu, while putting in some extra bulk. Since it is a Ghost-type with Flash Fire ability, it can use one of the three immunities to switch in on a lot of Pokemon (Choice locked Pokemon are Chandelure's best friends) and get a free Substitute or start spreading some burns. Taunt lets it troll a lot of common Pokemon in stall teams, such as Sableye, Gligar, Bronzong, Roserade, Registeel, and Dusclops, while also beating most Stealth Rock users one on one, with the exception of Swampert, Azelf, Empoleon, and Rhyperior. Pain Split is Chandelure's main form of recovery and it pairs up well with its mid-low HP stat. Once behind a Substitute, it is pretty easy for Chandelure to cripple at least two Pokemon on the opponent's team if they don't pack a phazer, simply because it can switch up moves and go from a safe option in the form of Substitute, cripple the opponent with Will-O-Wisp or go offensive with Flamethrower. Life Orb can be used if you're running SubSplit, since it gives more power and racks up more health on the opponent.
  19. fatty

    fatty
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    I'm just wondering, santuga, but what are those 100 speed EVs for? You only need 92 to outrun min speed roserade who even put 8 evs in speed, and from there the only other benchmark i'd shoot for is 128 EVs possibly to outrun bulky arcanine, taunting it and preventing it from healing up.

    As for my own set, this is something that I've been using on pretty much every team that needed a spin blocker since Chandelure dropped. If I didn't need Chandy to be a scarfer, this is what I ran. I created it because I hated using Pain Split as a form of recovery, but I wanted to use Chandy's fair bulk and good typing to my advantage in the form of a bulky attacker. What enveloped was ChestoRest Chandelure, which actually disinguishes itself very well from other Chandelure sets in my opinion.

    Chandelure (F) @ Chesto Berry
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 240 HP / 176 SAtk / 92 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Fire Blast
    - Shadow Ball
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Rest

    Basically, what this set does is provide the best "bang for your buck" when using Chandelure as a spin blocker, while also retaining it's ability to hit extremely hard with it's base 145 SpA. Instead of using Pain Split for recovery, ChestoRest gives you a one time full heal without having to rely on the opponents pokemon. This allows you to play a bit more aggressively against spinners, because one mispredict can easily be corrected by a well timed rest. Furthermore, it also has the ability to use it's good typing to switch-in on threats such as Victini, Heracross, Escavalier, Abomasnow and other Ice-types, among others, with a little bit greater peace of mind. Chesto Berry also proves useful is a couple other ways, including being able to absorb a Sleep Power from Roserade, potentially KOing it with Fire Blast, or letting the user bluff a choice item, which many people have come to expect from Chandy. Fire Blast + Shadow Ball are your STABs and will be providing your offense, keeping opponents on their toes, while WoW neuters things such as Swampert, SpD Rhyperior and most importantly, Snorlax switch-ins, preventing it from pursuiting you to death. 92 Speed outruns min speed Roserade and anything below, 176 SpA gives you a jump point, and the rest is dumped in HP, making sure it's an odd number because of SR, in order to bolster Chandelure's bulk.
  20. Santuga

    Santuga

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    The EV spread listed Roserade's spikes set has 16 Spe EVs, and 100 Spe on Chandelure outpaces it, that's the reasoning behind it. Arcanine doesn't need to be outpaced, since the bulky set is 100% walled by Chandelure anyway
  21. Cesterp

    Cesterp

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    I'm going to pull something similar to what Nyara did with Scrafty, just because I really can't find anything worth doing with Chandelure. So, making a list of remotely close to viable moves-
    Discarded Moves (open)
    Clearly not an option- Thief, Telekinesis, Minimize, Psych Up, Snore, Smog, Round, Incinerate, Hyper Beam, Giga Impact, Flash, Fire Spin, Ember, Dream Eater, Double Team, Captivate, Attract, Astonish, Acid, Return, Frustration, Payback, and Facade. Because you will be laughed at and called a moron if any of these show up.

    Moves that might need some form of explanation as to why not-
    Imprison- Way too unreliable, will almost never do anything.
    Night Shade- You have base 145 SpAtk. Seriously.
    Curse- Would actually be kind of interesting on a setup set. Except you're a Ghost type.
    Spite- Chandelure simply is nowhere near bulky enough for PP stall.

    Obscure/Outclassed/Not good choices-
    Inferno- Unless you're using Gravity, it's too unreliable.
    Embargo- Pretty awesome when paired with Flame Body vs. P2, pretty useless otherwise. Plus, Trick exists.
    SolarBeam- Unless you have a sun team.
    Flame Burst- Flamethrower exists if you want accuracy.
    Swagger- Confuse Ray is uh... better.


    So that leaves us with-

    Viable-Ish Moves (open)
    Team Support Moves-
    Trick Room
    Sunny Day
    Safeguard
    Memento

    Self-Support/Status/Walling Moves-
    Will-O-Wisp
    Toxic
    Haze
    Clear Smog
    Taunt
    Confuse Ray
    Protect
    Trick

    Recovery-
    Rest
    Sleep Talk
    Pain Split

    Set-Up Moves-
    Calm Mind
    Acid Armor
    Substitute
    Flame Charge

    Attacking Moves-
    Overheat
    Fire Blast
    Heat Wave
    Flamethrower
    Hex
    Shadow Ball
    Energy Ball
    Psychic
    Dark Pulse
    Hidden Power (fighting, usually)
    SolarBeam/Inferno (only with super heavy team support)


    And that's it for Chandelure's movepool, unless I forgot something. It really doesn't leave much room for creativity. The only move I can see in there that has some form of surprise factor that also resembles a moderately competitively viable option is Trick Room. I'm tempted to suggest a Will-O/Hex set, but Lure is simply nowhere near bulky enough to wall stuff. There's no priority, the set-up moves aren't fantastic (Flame Charge is possible, but a set with it has already been suggested), and the support options leave a lot to be desired. Quite frankly, I think all the good movesets that exist for Chandelure are already in use or were suggested already (once again, Flame Charge set is really good), and there's not really anywhere else for it to go. With that said, however, the only other option I can think of.

    Chandelure @ Focus Sash / Leftovers
    Trait: Flame Body
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 HP / 4 SDef
    Quiet Nature (+SpAtk, -Spd)
    IVs: 0 Spd
    - Trick Room
    - Memento
    - Flamethrower / Fire Blast
    - Shadow Ball

    Use 1: You lead with it (maybe Taunt a slower wall, Bronzong is still beaten but shouldn't be staying in). You set up Trick Room. You fire off an attack or two, you die. Bring in Trick Room sweeper #2.

    Use 2: Send in the Lure against something that is locked into a resisted move (say, Close Combat or Megahorn), set up the Trick Room on the switch, hit something hard, hit it again if you have spin support and packed a sash, maybe sweep a team or pave the way for something else.

    EDIT: Just so I'm not spamming up the thread. Memento makes a lot of sense, I'm not sure why I didn't think of it earlier. Updated the set with that in mind as option #1.
    REEDIT: Fixed what I believe was referred to as "moveslot vomit syndrome." This isn't a winning set from what I understand, but may as well make the post as good as it can be for posterity.
  22. fatty

    fatty
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    I like the use of Trick Room, Cesterp, but did you think about maybe using Memento > Taunt? Don't get me wrong, Taunt is really useful, but Chandelure is just too slow to make good use of it on the majority of UU, especially with a TR set. I think Memento provides the most upside factoring in that this would probably be used on a full TR team, allowing you to set up TR and then either attack with your strong STABs, or bring in another TR sweeper for free.
  23. PK Gaming

    PK Gaming Pursuing My True Self
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    That looks like a really good set. My biggest problem with Chandelure is longevity in a match; If your opponent can SR up and keep up the pressure, then Chandelure is getting one or two meaningful attacks off, tops, maybe even less if they have a Snorlax. You can still attack with this set, in addition to spreading WoW to cripple some of your common checks (heck, even bulky water types don't like the residual damage) and healing whenever you can. I'm going to try it on an HO spikestacking team.

    So yeah, throwing my support behind fatty's set.
  24. TPO3

    TPO3 Never practice; Always perform.

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    I really like fatty's Will-o-Wisp set as well. I like that it can cripple its most threatening switch-in (see: Snorlax), and that it can also allow itself to last longer in the match, and rid itself of status. I think it could be a pretty useful spinblocker, provided the opponent doesn't use something stupid like Offensive Blastoise.
  25. fatty

    fatty
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    Yeah sorry, I've been inactive the last couple days. Voting is open! (even though you guys already took it upon yourselves, thanks).

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