The Next Best Thing...

Discussion in 'BW UU' started by fatty, Jan 15, 2013.

  1. cim

    cim happiness is such hard work
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    The 248 HP EVs make the HP stat odd so you take slightly less damage switching into Stealth Rock more than once.

    I think a Transform set is really not a great idea. If you can survive one hit from a boosted sweeper, you can hit it back instead of Transforming and not even being faster than them since you don't have Choice Scarf.

    I'll come up with a set later tonight.
  2. Godsend

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    248 hp because I'm shit with EV's. Also, Transform helps even with defensive pokes. You can Transform into a Hitmontop and spin or Roserade and spike. The versatility of that Mew set is pretty cool.
  3. scorpdestroyer

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    Transform isn't all that bad. You could scout for sets and even use typing and abilities to your advantages. For example, use transform as a Bisharp hits you with Night Slash, doubly resist the hit, and switch out. Or transform into a Shaymin who used Toxic, and switch out with Natural Cure curing you. Even better, transform into a Heracross with boosts who is locked into Megahorn, copy his moves and boosts AND ability, as start sweeping. The possibilities are endless, especially since many Pokemon are good checks to themselves.
  4. Metal Sonic

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    and then realise that said heracross is faster than you
  5. scorpdestroyer

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    Right, if it's a scarf it's faster. My bad. Oh well. Then transform can be used against almost anything.
  6. Godsend

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    Exactly. And, it's not like Ditto, who can only Transform, is typically locked into a scarf and can't switch into anything. It's a set you have to try to really get a feel for, it's better in practice than on paper.
  7. sfgiantsfanmike

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    Edit: I have no idea why it adds the 'fat' in front of the user name but I just lol'd when I saw the quote! Sounds like a school yard insult...

    Man, where do you start with Mew? He's been my favorite for a long time now and I feel like I've only scratched the surface with what he is capable of.

    Here's a set up I've used through all three tiers he's been allowed in. It's very niche and requires some team support in the way of entry hazards and maybe death to the spinner but if it gets going...

    Mew@Leftovers
    Trait: Synchronize
    EV's: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spd
    Bold Nature
    -Gravity
    -Dragon Tail
    -Roar/Toxic/Thunder Wave/Earthquake
    -Softboiled

    Fairly simple strategy: get some hazards up and hopefully successfully defend them by taking out the spinner and get Mew in. Proceed to use Gravity so everything is hit by Spikes/Toxic Spikes and start to phase. I use Dragon Tail to deal a little damage while phasing to add to the hazard damage. Roar is there to ensure you can phase even if they put up a substitute but Toxic or Thunder Wave can be used to pass status along the way. Earthquake hits EVERYTHING under Gravity and surprisingly little is resistant to it (just grass and bug types). Softboiled because I it was his original healing move back in R/B/G/Y and to grant insta-healing.

    Ev'd to give max bulk against physical attackers, not much thought put into it. You can change up the EV's to be faster or hit harder but I would definitely invest a good deal in bulk nonetheless as he's at -7 priority for at least 1 of his moves.

    I've tried a similar concept but with restalk but he runs into 4 move slot syndrome bad. He wants gravity so you get the most out of your spikes but he needs to be able to have the best chance at phasing and with Gravity it drops to 1/3 with Sleep Talk...

    Anyway, I am looking forward to see what else you guys can come up with for Mew as he's so versatile there so many things you can try with him and he'll do good at all of them.
  8. Ace Emerald

    Ace Emerald The art of the possible
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    Here's something not so standard that I've enjoyed using:

    Mew @ Leftovers
    Ability: Synchronize
    EVs: 152 HP / 104 SpD / 252 Spe
    Nature: Jolly
    -Bulk Up
    -Zen Headbutt
    -Drain Punch
    -Taunt / Heal Bell

    This set is a much lower risk sweeper, with almost the same return. It uses the bulk granted by investment and Bulk Up to set up more times and become a fast, reasonably bulky sweeper. The first three moves are straightforward: Bulk Up for boosting, Zen Headbutt for a STAB with decent neutral coverage, and Drain Punch to provide coverage and healing. After one Bulk Up, Heracross can never OHKO Mew with Megahorn, while +1 Zen Headbutt always OHKOs back. Scarf Krookodile is hardpressed to even 2HKO with Crunch, and Drain Punch grabs a lot of health back. Chandelure, while it cannot OHKO with Shadow Ball, is trouble if Mew isn't set up, but is OHKO'd by +2 Zen Headbutt 75% of the time with Stealth Rock up. The choice between Taunt and Heal Bell is hard however. Lacking Taunt opens Mew up to pHazers, but lacking Heal Bell hurts against the many Scald users of the tier. The EVs are designed to give Mew a good chance of beating standard Raikou at +1, as well as provide some bulk investment. LO Raikou never 2HKOs with Thunderbolt, and even Choice Specs can fall to +1 Drain Punch + Zen Headbutt when Stealth Rock is up. The biggest advantage of the set is that the Pokemon that wall it are steamrolled by the Nasty Plot set, so they often don't switch in until boosts have been accumulated. Even so, this set has serious problems with Cofagrigus and Slowbro, as well as minor problems with other bulky Water-types.
  9. scorpdestroyer

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    About time we took a vote and moved on to the next Pokemon?
  10. fatty

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    yep. good job on the sets, i kept it open longer due to the fact that mew really has an endless supply of sets it can possibly run...

    whelp, voting may now commence!
  11. scorpdestroyer

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    Why is this thread so quiet?

    I don't want to vote for myself, so I'll vote for Godsend's Transform set because it allows Mew to set up all it wants before transforming.

    And also, I forgot to mention this earlier but the IVs for that set (listed in the order of HP / Atk / Def / SAtk / SDef / Spe) should be either:
    31/31/31/30/31/31 giving Hidden Power Electric, or
    31/31/31/30/30/31 giving Hidden Power Ground

    The reason is because when Mew transforms into a Pokemon with Hidden Power, the type is not copied. According to the usage stats, the Pokemon that are most troublesome that carry Hidden Power are Zapdos, Suicune, Empoleon and Raikou. By troublesome, I mean that the Pokemon Mew transforms into can't counter itself without Hidden Power. By running HP Ground, you gain the ability to counter Empoleon and Raikou that run Hidden Power. Suicune and Empoleon are similarly covered by Hidden Power Electric, and Zapdos can't be countered unless you run HP Ice which doesn't help much other than for this. The choice of Hidden Power depends on who you'd rather get walled by.

    Godsend, if you're reading this, consider the change.
  12. shiranai

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    Since there isn't many people around here I'll say a little about the sets I saw here.

    I'll be really straight forward, the set I liked the most is sfgiantsfanmike's Gravity set. Gravity is even less common than Trick Room, and still is a great "weather" move. Also, Gravity can be a nice support move, raising Chandelure's Fire Blast accuracy and giving Krookodile the possibility to hit flying and Levitate poke, the reason Moxie Krook isn't used at all. The support this Mew can give is totally different from the other sets.

    Godsend's Transform set deserves a mention too, because it can easily set against mos things, but unfortunately the best targets to transform into can do a major damage to Mew.
  13. Cesterp

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    I'm voting for Ace Emerald's Bulk Up set. It really seems to be the only one here that's competent, IMO. Gravity would be nicer if it didn't rely on hazards support and your opponent not packing a Blastoise, and Transform in my past experiences is not anywhere close to being reliable or successful enough to be worth it. Yeah, Transforming into the serious threats can be helpful, but it can be a deadweight if your opponent's team doesn't have what you want to copy.

    Mew is definitely bulky enough and has the typing to be a successful set up sweeper, and all you need to do is pack teammates like Raikou and Shaymin/Roserade (not really asking for too much) to ensure that a sweep can happen.
  14. PTJon7

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    I'm voting for Ace Emerald's Bulk Up Mew as well. The only problem the set faces however is that Sableye is completely immune to its attacks, and can Will-o-Wisp. Maybe Baton Pass or a 3rd attack could take the 4th move slot.
  15. fatty

    fatty
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    Ace Emerald. out of all the sets posted, i see this one having the most merit. it plays off of mew's good bulk and allows for a reliable, yet unexpected boosting offensive power that i can definitely see being problematic for under prepared teams.

    with that, Ace Emerald wins!

    for the new pokemon, let's go with the electrifying Zapdos!
  16. PTJon7

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    Lets try and get this round started off. Here's a set that I thought I'd try out,

    Agility Zapdos:

    Zapdos @ Life Orb
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 180 HP / 252 SAtk / 76 Spd
    Modest Nature
    - Thunderbolt
    - Heat Wave
    - Hidden Power [Grass]
    - Agility

    The speed EVs mean you outspeed Scarfed Mienshao, so basically every scarfer in the tier. And alternate move set could be replacing Heat Wave with HP Ice and HP Grass with Roost. The bulk of this set really aids it in setting up. Zapdos really isn't powerful enough to completely sweep teams, but I could see this working in general as a clean-up sweeper
  17. Mazz

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    This hasn't been seen since like ADV, and yet it's one of the most terrifying spreads a Zapdos can run.

    [​IMG]
    Zapdos@Leftovers
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 120 HP / 252 SpA / 136 Spe
    Timid Nature
    - Metal Sound
    - Thunderbolt
    - Heat Wave
    - Hidden Power [Grass]

    Good 'ol Metal Sound Zapdos. Zapdos tends to attract Pokemon with loads of special bulk, and is typically forced to switch out against these said Pokemon. However, thanks to Metal Sound, Zapdos is now fully capable of 2HKOing SpD Snorlax, Umbreon, and Porygon2, leaving very few Pokemon that would actually appreciate switching-in on Zapdos. The goal of this set is to more or less predict a switch to Snorlax, Umbreon, or another common Zapdos switch-in, catch it with Metal Sound on the switch-in, and ruin its day. Thunderbolt provides Zapdos with a source of STAB, nailing a plethora of types for solid damage. Heat Wave melts the odd Steel-, Ice-, Grass-, or Bug-type in the tier, furthermore limiting the safe-switches into Zapdos. Hidden Power Grass rounds off Zapdos' coverage, punishing the Ground- and Rock-types that want to switch-in on Thunderbolt or Heat Wave. This Zapdos doesn't have to be a standalone either, as it cannot check everything in UU. The Special Defence drops from Metal Sound open up possibilities for other special sweepers to tear holes in the opposing team, such as Agility Porygon-Z or Mew. A neat little bonus regarding Metal Sound, but it can also act as a phazing move, as very few Pokemon want to be staying in on Zapdos with a reduced Special Defence stat. Pairing this variant of Zapdos with teammates that can supply Spikes and Stealth Rock is a good idea, as it turns many 2HKOs of Zapdos' into OHKOs.

    Just some Calculations (open)
    252 SpA Life Orb Zapdos Thunderbolt vs. -2 208 HP / 176+ SpD Snorlax: 281-331 (54.77 - 64.52%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
    252 SpA Life Orb Zapdos Thunderbolt vs. -2 252 HP / 252+ SpD Umbreon: 235-278 (59.64 - 70.55%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
    252 SpA Life Orb Zapdos Thunderbolt vs. -2 252 HP / 80 SpD Eviolite Porygon2: 253-298 (67.64 - 79.67%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
  18. Cassen

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    Props to Metal Sound Zapdos, Pokemazter! It reminds me of the monster that was Fake Tears Jolteon back from DDP, which I used to run to great effect back when I played it.

    One of the things I like about Zapdos over Jolteon is that Zapdos has life much easier defensively thanks to it's natural bulk, better typing to suit the tier, and access to Roost. Because of this, I would suggest improving upon Zapdos' staying-power by replacing Heat Wave and HP-grass for Roost and HP-ice. Roost compliments the 120 HP EV's and the Leftovers you gave to the set, allowing those EV's to be more relevant throughout the match regardless of Stealth Rocks, as well as preventing Fighting-type pokemon from wearing Zapdos down into KO-range. Between Thunderbolt and HP-ice, you'll be able to hit just about everything within the tier for at least neutral damage; this sort of coverage helps amplify the effectiveness of Metal Sound just like your current set does, except now its coverage spans 2 moves rather than 3, plus you get Roost for longevity along with less reliance on Rapid Spin.

    Here are some calcs I think are relevant regarding the changes I suggested:

    Calculations (open)
    252 SpA Zapdos Hidden Power Ice vs. -2 248 HP / 244 SpD Solid Rock Rhyperior: 255-300 (58.89 - 69.28%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

    252 SpA Zapdos Hidden Power Ice vs. -2 240 HP / 0 SpD Swampert: 162-191 (40.39 - 47.63%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock

    252 SpA Zapdos Hidden Power Ice vs. -2 252 HP / 0 SpD Nidoqueen: 340-400 (88.54 - 104.16%) -- 68.75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock


    The only things that should give you any sort of problem are Swampert and Rhyperior, who are only 3HKO'd and 2HKO'd by HP-ice respectively even after the -2 drop, however, I think this weakness is worth giving up in return for better longevity,ability to function well throughout the match without the need for rapid spinning, and - most importantly - having a far better match-up against pokemon that aren't such hard-counters to Zapdos yet would still prove difficult to defeat without Metal Sound (Umbreon, Snorlax, Rotom-H, Porygon2, ect.)

    Overall I think your Zapdos set is very good, and I definitely will be trying it out the next time I get around to building a team. I do have one question, however: what exactly were the benchmarks for those EV's invested in HP and Speed? Are they there to specifically out-speed a certain pokemon, or to take certain hits better?
  19. scorpdestroyer

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    I think the Agility set is already on Smogon's analysis page. I guess it could work as a late-game cleaner.

    I think Metal Sound is a good idea but it has an unsound (pun intended) 85% accuracy, which sucks. But if it does hit I foresee the opponent getting shuffled to no end and taking constant hazard damage. Also I'd recommend Roost over one of the coverage moves. Otherwise Zapdos dies faster.

    Edit: Got ninja'd. I still prefer HP Grass > HP Ice though, otherwise Swampert and Rhyperior become bitches.
  20. Cassen

    Cassen

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    Aww, crap it only has 85% accuracy? Not 100%? This changes things...(for the worse).

    Regardless, the set still seems interesting, and I'm still curious about the EV spread that was given.
  21. Mazz

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    That EV spread allows Zapdos to outspeed max-speed base 85s while retaining some bulk and maximum power. Basically prevents Fighting-type STAB from running through Zapdos.
  22. PTJon7

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    Aw man, of course its the last one on the list. It even has the same EVs too... Oh well, atleast the moves are different :/
  23. Ezio

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    In collaboration with Ace Emerald:

    Zapdos @ Leftovers / Damp Rock
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 248 HP / 148 Spd / 112 Def
    Timid Nature
    - Rain Dance
    - Thunderbolt
    - Substitute
    - Baton Pass

    First of all, I guarantee your opponent will never expect an RDBP Zapdos. This set aims to set up rain to support a Rain Dance team as well as pass subs to dangerous rain sweepers. Now at first glance this may seem ridiculous, as few Pokemon can set up multiple times and Baton Pass but Zapdos doesn't have to do both. Early on Zapdos supports by passing Substitutes to teammates and maintains momentum. The opponent doesn't know Zapdos is weak af, so RDBPdos can force some switches. Late game, Zapdos uses the surprise Rain Dance and Pokemon like Kingdra can have a field day. Zapdos is best used as a secondary rain inducer to increase the element of surprise.

    Thunderbolt is used over Thunder because it's accurate outside of rain and early game, and it's not ike this Zapdos is killing anything anyways. Plus it somewhat maintains the bluff of Rain Dance. A Rapid Spinner is vital unless Zapdos is only going to come in a couple times such as on a heavily offensive teams; Stealth Rock and Substitute both wipe out a large 25% chunk of its health. Leftovers is amazing beause it prolongs Zapdos' health and allows for more passes but Damp Rock is great on teams very focused on rain. The EVs in Speed allow Zapdos to outspeed neutral base 100s for more set up opportunities. The rest is focused on increasing Zapdos' defensive potential so it can set up on the plethora of Fighting-type Pokemon and weak or resisted attackers. Overall, RDBPdos is an unexpected but very dangerous threat when combined with some hazard support / spinning, rain sweepers, and offensive pressure.
  24. fatty

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    @pokemazter, i use to run a spikestack team with ms zapdos and the set i ran was ms / tbolt / hp fly / roost. i feel like ms zapdos needs longevity so it can continually rack up spikes damage in an attempt to plow through teams, so roost is almost a must. from there, i felt like the 2 best moves to run would be dual STABs, seeing as i could only run 2 moves, and flying + electric provides decent coverage anyways.

    love the sets so far, i'll keep submissions open for the rest of today (hell, i might even post one), and then i'll open for voting.
  25. cim

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    I love MS-DOS and will probably vote for it. One of my favorite DPP teams used Metal Sound Zapdos and Screech Flygon together. I might revive that shit in UU now!

    Anyway this Zapdos is about 90% theorymon, but I remember testing it in a team ages ago and it was okay, so I'll put it up to encourage a little more discussion even though it isn't as fleshed out as some other sets.

    Zapdos @ Life Orb
    4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe Timid
    - Rain Dance
    - Thunder
    - Hidden Power Water
    - Roost / Heat Wave / Volt Switch

    It's pretty straightforward - Rain Dance is Zapdos's best way of "boosting" its Special Attack by giving it a stronger STAB move and coverage move. HP Water destroys Rhyperior and unlike HP Grass it still messes up Gligar. Flygon takes a boosted neutral hit equivalent to a Hidden Power Flying. Nidoqueen is also not a big fan of a boosted Water move from the Pokemon she allegedly checks.

    Damp Rock is an option if this is used on a rain team but the above set is a better "bulky rain supporter" than this, this set just kills shit.

    Roost is for longevity, Heat Wave is used for a predicted Grass before Rain is set up but is otherwise a wasted move slot, and Volt Switch lets you pass up to three turns of Rain to something like Specs Kingdra or maybe a Tornadus.

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