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The Next Best Thing

Discussion in 'BW OU' started by Nova, Jan 21, 2013.

  1. BlackLight

    BlackLight

    Joined:
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    Well, here's something, anyways.

    Celebi @ Leftovers
    Leftovers
    252 HP/252 Speed/4 Sp Attack
    Substitute
    Baton Pass
    Giga Drain
    HP Fire / HP Rock

    The whole point of this set is to pass large Substitutes to teammates and hold onto momentum. Celebi has a wide variety of Pokemon that it can switch into without a problem and force out, giving it enough time to set up a Substitute. From there, you have the option of hitting the switch in or passing the Sub to another Pokemon that is better suited to dealing with it. The attacking moves don't exactly have a ton of thought put into them. Giga Drain is useful as STAB because the health drain adds to your survivability and helps you make more Subs, while the option of a Hidden Power is really up to the needs of your team, but I put down HP Fire for denting the likes of Scizor and Ferrothorn, while HP Rock is just for general coverage.
    Pairing this set up with powerful Pokemon that would otherwise have problems switching in is the way to go with this set. Things like Lucario and Volcarona don't have to worry about being hurt or statused when they have a Substitute guarding them from both, and this will give them an easier time setting up and wrecking havok.
  2. H-C

    H-C

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    Here's a set that's pretty good imo :

    [​IMG]
    Celebi @ Leftovers
    Trait : Natural Cure
    Modest Nature (+Satk, -Atk)
    252 HP / 200 Spd / 56 SAtk
    - Calm Mind / Nasty Plot
    - Baton Pass
    - Giga Drain
    - Substitute / Recover

    This set is very usefull when you want to give some boost to other pokemon. The main strategy is to use Calm Mind or Nasty Plot, then Baton Pass. Giga Drain is here then you're not fuck by Taunt. The coice between Recover and Sub depends of your team. Sub allows you to use Baton Pass safely while Recover gives you some bulk.
  3. Alexander.

    Alexander. Banned deucer.

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    [​IMG]
    Celebi @ Leftovers / Life Orb
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Nasty Plot
    - Giga Drain
    - Earth Power / Psychic
    - Hidden Power [Fire]

    Nasty Plot Celebi is really good imo, he can setup on Politoed, Keldeo and Rock Polish Landorus, use Nasty Plot and then make pressure on opponent's team thanks to its coverage moves. Giga Drain is a solid STAB which also recovers Celebi's HP to extend its sweep, Hidden Power Fire is a useful coverage move to hit steel-types such as Scizor and Jirachi. Like last move, I usually prefer Earth Power to hit Heatran which can counter very well Nasty Plot if it lacks Earth Power but Psychic is a good option too because it's a strong STAB to hit dragon-types such as Dragonite and Salamence and Thundurus-T, it also OHKOed Gengar which can give some problem to Celebi with Shadow Ball.
  4. Neliel

    Neliel Sacred Sword

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    Oct 9, 2012
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    565
    Time to show a set of mine U.U
    At least one not mentioned in the smogon page.

    [​IMG]

    Celebi @ Life Orb
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Swords Dance
    - Seed Bomb
    - Sucker Punch
    - Baton Pass


    As you can see, this is a phisical celebi. Sword dance its quite underrated to be honest, and the fact that it can use a strong priority like sucker punch is what makes this set good. Celebi has many usefull resistances, such as to ground, water, eletric pokemon that can use as a setup bait to do a couple of sword dance. For example, its perfect to setup sword dance against rainstall teams and then to batonpass the boost to some other threatening pokemon. by the way, the evs and the item here only have the purpose to power up sucker punch. I would say that sucker punch its nothing to laugh about in term of power, here some calculations after a sword dance;
    Show Hide
    Sucker punch against tornadus: 328 Atk (+2) VS 176 Def and 299 HP (80 Base Power): 278 - 328 (92.97% - 109.69%)
    Sucker punch against salamence: 328 Atk (+2) VS 196 Def and 331 HP (80 Base Power): 250 - 294 (75.52% - 88.82%)
    sucker punch against Landorus: 328 Atk (+2) VS 216 Def and 319 HP (80 Base Power): 227 - 267 (71.15% - 83.69%)
    Sucker punch against dragonite: 328 Atk (+2) VS 226 Def and 323 HP (80 Base Power): 217 - 256 (67.18% - 79.25%)
    Seed bomb against tyranitar: 328 Atk (+2) VS 256 Def and 404 HP (120 Base Power): 575 - 676 (142.32% - 167.32%)

    This set find his home on heavy offense teams. Deo-d its a great support for him since celebi appreciates the almost always stealth rock on the field and spikes. Obviously there are some pokemon that full stops it, like steel types, but this is what baton pass is for. Basically, if a scizor comes in while you sword dance, you can bpass to something else that take care of him, for example scarf darmanitan. Other good teammates are scarf moxie mence, ddnite, Sd lucario/scizor, even arcanine can be good thanks to the +2 extreme speed he can use.
  5. scorpdestroyer

    scorpdestroyer is a pious radio
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    [​IMG]Celebi @ Life Orb
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 56 HP / 252 SAtk / 200 Spe
    Modest Nature
    -Leaf Storm
    -Psychic / Hidden Power Fire / Thunder Wave
    -Hidden Power Fire / U-Turn
    -Rest

    The moveset is standard for most part except for the last slot, but more on that later. Leaf Storm is STAB that hits extremely hard. This Celebi is thus a hit-and-run style player, firing off powerful Leaf Storms before getting the hell out. The rest of the moveset facilitates this. The second slot is usually reserved for coverage. Psychic is preferred since it gives Celebi a way to damage dragons and is its best way of hitting Keldeo and Breloom, who can otherwise give trouble to rain teams. Hidden Power Fire hits Scizor and Ferrothorn who otherwise give Celebi huge trouble. Coverage on Heatran is not listed since you can just U-Turn out of it as you outspeed anyway, while Scizor can Pursuit you, thus covering the likes of Scizor is more important. Thunder Wave is great for supporting the team as it slows down fast threats for the team. Perish Song can also be run to deal with boosting sweepers that wall Celebi. U-Turn is a way to escape dangerous situations as well as curing status due to Natural Cure and resetting the Special Attack drops from Leaf Storm. Finally, the surprise move, Rest over Recover. This takes a page out of Roserade's book. Thanks to Natural Cure, Celebi can easily fire off Leaf Storm as it gets weakened, rest up, regaining all the HP lost through Life Orb recoil or damage from the opponent, and simply switch out, curing it of its status. This keeps Celebi healthier than Recover and allows it to come in multiple times a match.

    EV spread allows Celebi to always outspeed Jolly Max Speed Mamoswine and Leaf Storm it. Special Attack is maximized and Modest because Celebi needs all the firepower it can get. The rest goes to HP to allow it to wall stuff better.
  6. youngjake93

    youngjake93

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    Woo! I won one!
    Soo Celebi... Well, Celebi's counters are for the most part hard-countered by SR+Roar Heatran(while Celebi gives up a lot to run Modest LO HP Rock and attempt it) and the standard Celebi runs U-Turn to switch into Heatran with ease. The only problem is when Celebi is COMPLETELY dead-weight against Sun.

    252 Atk Victini V-create vs. 252 HP / 72 Def Occa Berry Celebi in sun: 340-402 (84.15 - 99.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    Growth Venusaur without Sludge Bomb can actually be SAFELY SWITCHED INTO(on the Growth or on the unboosted HP Fire) to Thunder Wave it. That is especially helpful for when they try to lure your Heatran for Dugtrio.
    +2 252+ SpA Life Orb Venusaur Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 232+ SpD Occa Berry Celebi in sun: 199-235 (49.25 - 58.16%) -- 97.66% chance to 2HKO

    [​IMG]
    Celebi @ Occa Berry
    Trait : Natural Cure
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    252 HP / 184 SDef / 72 Def
    - Thunder Wave
    - Giga Drain
    - Healing Wish
    - U-Turn/Recover

    Healing Wish+Defense investment+Occa Berry to mix up the standard set. Celebi can still do its job of coming in on rain abusers and spamming Giga Drain, but it can now take a hit in Sun to not be deadweight. This set also does things such as turn a Scarfchomp Outrage into a 3HKO and provide a chance to survive +1 LO Adamant DDnite Outrage or trolling when they use Fire Punch to avoid being locked in.
    Healing Wish after Thunder Wave gives you a nice way to revenge a sweeper(particularly in Sun) and seriously bring the momentum your way. It also pairs extremely well with Dragonite in particular by being able to set up a DD with MultiScale intact against a paralyzed opponent; even after being able to do work early-game.




    Also.. Nasty Plot Celebi is the 3rd most used already. Not exactly an original concept.
  7. Shurtugal

    Shurtugal The Enterpriser.

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    I use a set similar to this. I use HP Ice over Sub / Recover since I'm DubDance ThundyT weak, and I went for 265 speed tier, and invested the rest into bulk (SDef + HP). I used Nasty Plot Celebi to BP to Scarf Keldeo in rain as well as SubSalac Torn-I as well and its pretty fun to use ^-^
  8. Deglas

    Deglas

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    Dec 21, 2012
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    [​IMG]
    Celebi @ Leftovers
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 4 Spd / 252 SAtk / 252 HP
    Modest Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Thunder Wave
    - Nasty Plot
    - Giga Drain
    - Earth Power / Psychic / Hidden Power Ice / Hidden Power Fire

    Yes, Thunder Wave and Nasty Plot. Together, they create... Double Dance Celebi! This Celebi is designed to be effective in almost any situation. Thunder Wave is useful against more offensive teams, crippling a sweeper; it also hurts balanced and defensive teams, because nothing likes full paralysis. Nasty Plot lets Celebi hit harder against more durable teams, and is best saved as a surprise till later in the game. Giga Drain is STAB, providing the reliability needed for a boosting sweeper and handy recovery that lets you feign a dedicated defensive set early game. Earth Power is the preferred coverage move, but the other listed moves are also somewhat viable (mainly Psychic). The Evs might be a bit confusing for a Double Dancer, but they are important. The HP investment allows it to function as (and feign) a defensive set before using Nasty Plot, while the SpA investment lets it hit harder when a chance to sweep comes. Speed investment is not needed, because it has Thunder Wave for fast, frail Pokemon, and it has enough Speed to outrun most bulkier Pokemon naturally.
    This set is a bit confusing to play with so I'll give a short explaination. Earlier in the game, this Celebi is best played like a defensive set, spreading paralysis where possible. As the game progress, it can try for a sweep, using an unexpected Nasty Plot to boost its SpA and smash through a team once its counters are removed or weakened.
  9. ala

    ala
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    Celebi @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd / 4 Atk
    Timid Nature
    - Leaf Storm
    - Psychic / Earth Power
    - U-turn
    - Hidden Power [Ice] / Trick

    The beast. I've used this in Dpp and I see no reason that it wouldn't work now, what with Rain being so popular. Has lots of coverage options and stuff too, as well as a base 140 move, same as Latios draco meteor. Swag. You can also Trick the scarf when youre done beasting noobs and slay bitches with coverage over speed. Make sure Scizor is dead before you send it out tho, cause Pursuit hurts like a bitch.
  10. Homeslice

    Homeslice

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    [​IMG]
    Celebi @ Leftovers
    Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
    Calm/Modest/Timid Nature
    - Sunny Day
    - Giga Drain
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Thunder Wave/Toxic

    One of the biggest problems with Celebi is the fact is gets destroyed by the average Rain team. The purpose of this set is for Celebi to be able to force the opponent's Politoed back in to summon rain, and respond accordingly. Once Sunny Day is up, you can simply Giga Drain on the switch in to do a decent chunk while restoring some HP, or try to cripple it with Thunder Wave or Toxic. HP Fire is used to deal with Scizor, Forry, and Ferrothorn that would normally wall you to oblivion, while getting boosted under Sun, which should come into effect as they switch. Most bulk is put into Sp Def due to Politoed and many water types being more specially oriented. Thunder Wave and Toxic is kind of a preference of if you would rather remove Politoed quicker or cripple Scizor or Tyranitar. You can then outspeed both, and do a decent amount of Damage based off what move would be logical against either. This strategy forces Politoed to take residual damage from having to switch in constantly (hopefully you have hazards up) and being hit with Giga Drain and potentially Toxic. If you are more worried about Scizor, you can simply change your nature to Timid, as Celebi then outspeeds any Scizor that isn't scarfed. Modest is used if you are afraid of bulkier versions of Politoed. Otherwise, Calm would be your best option for more bulk.
  11. Deglas

    Deglas

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    Dec 21, 2012
    Messages:
    77
    Well, I noticed that we're supposed to discuss sets so here goes (in no particular order).


    OldJack, Alexander and ala, all of you posted sets in the on-site analysis. I assume this was unintentional, but it doesn't really fit with the goal of this project.


    youngjake93, your set is good defensively against Sun, but it seems to compormise Celebi's effectiveness against Rain, one of its main selling points, a lot. It isn't bad against Rain, but it will be helpless against certain Rain 'mons like Ferrothorn, as well as other Pokemon like LumDD Dragonite/Salamence/Haxorus. Also, mono-Grass coverage sucks against Sun, with the abundance of Fire- and Grass- types, as well as things like Xatu and Dragons.


    scorpdestroyer, Rest Celebi is good in theory, but I know from my experience using Shaymin that Recover > Natural Cure Rest, because you can stay in after you heal. The moveset is exactly what I would use with Rest though.


    Homeslice, Sunny Day Celebi seems like a neat idea, but it would be hard to fit on a team. Weather teams other than Sun won't run a conflicting weather move, and weatherless teams already tend to have the hardest time against Sun to begin with. Sun teams also would have a hard time running it, but the typing stacks weaknesses with Chlorophyll sweepers, as well as other common Sun Pokemon like Xatu and Dugtrio.


    H-C, Baton Pass Celebi sounds like an interesting idea. My only worry is that you would need to make sure anything that could revenge your sweeper is KO'd, and this Celebi has diminished utility outside of Baton Pass.


    BlackLight, Your Baton Pass Celebi sounds like a better idea. The increased offensive coverage lets it be less one-dimensional, and SubPass can benefit a wider range of Pokemon. I'd still be wary of using Celebi over something like Mew for this purpose, because of the amount of weaknesses.


    Neliel Tu Oderschvank, you have the best Baton Pass Celebi here, as well as one of my favorite sets. I've always liked Baton Pass Pokemon that can sweep and use Baton Pass for when their sweep is threatened, as opposed to dedicated Baton Passers (outside of full Baton Pass). Physical Celebi also sounds like a good idea. The unexpectedness is a huge plus, as most only consider special Celebi. It might also let you get two Swords Dances, when the opponent switches in something with special bulk like Blissey, and then switches out when they discover that Celebi is physical. Sucker Punch is also great for Celebi and vice-versa, turning its weaknesses to an advantage by provoking attacks.
  12. youngjake93

    youngjake93

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    I don't see the point of u-turn on rest celebi. I like the set outside of that. Earth power/hp fire should be there.

    Deglas, why not Psychic as the main 4th move with magnezone as a partner? Find a way to eliminate heatran and you are set to sweep. Whereas, you would have to eliminate a lot more if you had earth power like every single flying, grass and dragon...

    And yeaa.. My set is somewhat compromising, but I had to separate it from the standard set and not just say "use occa berry". It does do useful things, but that lum berry will hurt its usefulness :(
    Healing wish though! So cool!
  13. Deglas

    Deglas

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    Psychic with Magnezone sounds like a good idea. I'll try it. Earth Power tends to be better in general though, as Celebi attracts Fire- and Steel- types like the plague, and many of the major Flying-, Dragon-, and Grass- types resist Psychic and/or are neutral to Grass or Ground (Ferrothorn, Forretress, Gliscor, Gyarados, Landorus-I and -T, Scizor) or don't care regardless (Hydreigon, Latios, Latias, Skarmory). Also, my Celebi is designed more to work in many situations than to sweep specifically. It can function as an offensive, defensive, or support Pokemon as the team needs.

    EDIT: I tried Psychic Celebi + Magnezone, and it doesn't work that well. A Magnezone just doesn't fit that well, and this Celebi is meant to fill gaps in a team, not create new ones.
  14. BlackLight

    BlackLight

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    Thanks, mate. I suppose Mew could do something very similar, seeing as it does have less weaknesses, but it also has less resistances, too. I suppose that it really just depends if you can cover those weaknesses and if you need the resists.

    With that said, the only thing that hasn't really been talked about is your set, of course. Gotta say, I like it. It has utility throughout the entire battle, and against a wide variety of teams. And of course you can also set up a Nasty Plot and cripple your counters with Thunder Wave as they switch in to block your attack, which will definitely help with beating them.
  15. Nova

    Nova Samsung Alpaca
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    Voting Period for Celebi starts now, here are links to each set you can vote for:

    Old Jack
    BlackLight
    H-C
    Alexander.
    Neliel
    scorpdestroyer
    youngjake93
    Deglas
    ala
    Homeslice

    For voting, just put the username of the person you wish to vote for in bold and a short 1 or 2 sentence explanation for why you chose that set. Voting will be open for 2 days! Feel free to VM or PM me any suggestions for the next test subject if you have any.
  16. BlackLight

    BlackLight

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    Well, I'll vote for Deglas for a creative, multipurpose set. I don't see a lot of times where it wouldn't be useful.
  17. DarkBlazeR

    DarkBlazeR

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    Neliel

    SD Celebi is both creative and very practical. I would like to point out that Baton Pass Celebi in general is highly overlooked at the moment, and hence H-C's set is definitely worth trying as well.
  18. Shurtugal

    Shurtugal The Enterpriser.

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  19. Cherub Agent

    Cherub Agent come at me winter
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    Neliel

    cmon how can you not vote for this it's creative and effective. can also use stuff like zen headbutt or recover over baton pass i guess... does celebi get any physical ground or fighting moves?
  20. Homeslice

    Homeslice

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    Neliel

    Physical Celebi is a realistic threat while having the ability to baton pass the SD boost onto faster but weaker pokes is amazing.
  21. Halcyon.

    Halcyon. Come on, she's not burned; she's just gone.
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    Neliel

    Honestly, most of these sets are outclassed by Mew. However, this one has some real offensive potential and priority, which is always helpful, in addition to the ability to pass the boosts. Also, no one expects a physical Celebi.
  22. Shurtugal

    Shurtugal The Enterpriser.

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    I've found recover slightly more useful that Sucker tbh since you could heal up on things like LO Latios doing 60% with Draco. Passing +4 to lucario or Dragonite is pure gg XD
  23. Alexander.

    Alexander. Banned deucer.

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    Neliel

    Physical Celebi is a creative set for sure and it's nice to use too.
  24. Blizzard

    Blizzard @ NeverMeltIce
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    Neliel

    Have been following this project for a few days. Man, is it interesting.
    Physical Celebi has often been outclassed due to lack of coverage moves or the fact that someone else does the job better. Baton pass lets you escape pursuits and lets terrakion or lucario get the justified boost and sweep teams. Fantastic
  25. Deglas

    Deglas

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    Neliel

    Pretty much what everyone else has said. Physical Celebi is unexpected, and Baton Passing the boosts is great.

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