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The Next Best Thing

Discussion in 'BW OU' started by Nova, Jan 21, 2013.

  1. Adams

    Adams

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    Neliel

    Awesome set
  2. Old Jack

    Old Jack

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    Neliel

    Underrated set, sucker punch is unexpected.
  3. scorpdestroyer

    scorpdestroyer is a pious radio
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    Deglas, but Neliel is probably gonna win
  4. youngjake93

    youngjake93

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    Deglas

    I don't see what SDpass Celebi has over SDpass Mew besides 9001 weaknesses including insta-dying to any U-turns. I like how Deglas's set can perform early mid and late-game.

    Random Fact: Mew+Celebi are the only Pokemon that learn TR+SD+BP besides Smeargle. I'm surprised no one suggested that set for either of them, that would be a powerful set and they have the stats to easily pull it off. Sheer Force Rampardos with +2 Attack under Trick Room...
  5. Trinitrotoluene

    Trinitrotoluene +Dread Arceus: the edgier the name, the higher the crit rate
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    Neliel Tu Oderschvank

    @youngjake93: Celebi actually has resistances to Water-type moves, allowing it to set up on Politoed and company, as well as access to Sucker Punch, which allows Celebi to get past things like Latios and Latias.
  6. Shurtugal

    Shurtugal The Enterpriser.

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    It walls water STAB while Mew cannot.
    It gets Grass STAB and checks Breloom's Bullet seed while Mew cannot.
    It checks Keldeo while Mew cannot.
    Mew is also weak to U-turns; don't make it seem like Mew is much better then Celebi in that regard :/

    Mew gets Agility and Nasty Plot and Swords Dance: much better than TR for passing while Celebi cannot which one of the ways Mew can outshine but not being able to wall rain is a royal downfall.

    EDIT:

    ninja'd by TNT :P
  7. LilOuOn

    LilOuOn

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    Deglas

    I had the same idea when Tornadus-T was around the skies of OU. I used to use NP Celebi and got really frustrated when I set up a NP and then a f*****g green bird came out to stop my Celebi sweep -____- So I thought about Thunder Wave, a great option to cripple faster pokemons that try to switch in against your Celebi.
  8. Deglas

    Deglas

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    I'm amused to see that Neliel and I are the only ones getting votes. It's even funnier because our sets share a key trait: they both aim to be useful in multiple situations. The difference in our ways of achiveing this is that Neliel's set is more focused (works in fewer situations, but is very effective) and fits best on offensive teams, whereas mine is less focused (works in many situations, but at the cost of some effectiveness) and better for balanced teams. And of course, his is physical and mine is special.
  9. Joeyboy

    Joeyboy Check out my Youtube channel! JoeyboyGames!
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    Gunna have to go with big Neliel.

    His set is definitely interesting and could prove to be quite a shock to many opponents. The thing is that Celebi can get by most of its counters by using its sets on site so I think the most unusually effective set posted should be the one to win, which in this case, in my opinion, is SDpass Celebi :)

    The Thunder Wave+NP set is the second place contender for me but its coverage leaves too many 'mons as superb checks.
  10. Nova

    Nova Palisades
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    Voting is now closed and the winner is Neliel's Swords Dance Celebi set. This set will be added in the archive featured in the second post of the thread.

    The next subject is everyone's favorite Wishmaker, Jirachi!

    [​IMG]
  11. Alexander.

    Alexander.

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    [​IMG]
    Jirachi @ Leftovers
    Trait: Serene Grace
    EVs: 80 HP / 252 Atk / 176 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Substitute
    - Body Slam / Thunder Wave
    - Iron Head
    - Fire Punch

    Substitute + Paralysis Jirachi isn't a very common set nowadays but it can work very well as a supporter for a slow sweeper such as Machamp, Conkeldurr and so on. Substitute + Iron Head + Body Slam forces a lots of switch and therefore this set of Jirachi works fine with the support of Stealth Rock and Spikes, Fire Punch destroys steel-types such as Ferrothorn and opposing Jirachi which resist to both Body Slam and Iron Head. Finally, Thunder Wave is a good choice too because it always paralyzes but Body Slam is definitely a better move because it paralyzes ground-types such as Landorus-I and Landorus-T and Thundurus-T, which are immune to Thunder Wave. In short, this is an underrated set which deserved to be tried in some chances because it works fine if played well and because it can be a very nice support for some sweepesr which have good statistics but which are slow at the same time.
  12. DarkBlazeR

    DarkBlazeR

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    [​IMG]

    Jirachi @ Life Orb
    Trait: Serene Grace
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Modest Nature
    IVs: 29 HP / 30 SAtk / 30 SDef
    - Calm Mind
    - Psychic
    - Thunderbolt
    - Hidden Power [Ground]

    My take on Superachi(!). Very few people expect Jirachi to hit so hard right off the bat. This set works wonders based on surprise value - most people only prepare for three Jirachi sets: the SDef set, the SubCM set and the Scarf set. When they see I don't run Leftovers, 99% of players will immediately assume that I'm running Scarf Jirachi (hardly anyone expects the rare EBelt set either). The natural reaction is to switch to something like a bulky Ground, Skarmory, Heatran, or even their own Jirachi. Either set up a Calm Mind immediately, or just predict the switch in the smack them with the appropriate move. As well as being a fantastic lure for such 'mons, this Jirachi is simply a solid special attacker that requires less setup than its bulkier SubCM counterpart.

    Note that this set could be tweaked in many ways, such as replacing Psychic with Flash Cannon to deal with Tyranitar, Lati@s and Hydregion, and obviously Thunderbolt could be replaced with Thunder on a rain team. You could also replace Life Orb with Expert Belt or Leftovers, though the extra power would be missed, and the bluff would be more difficult to execute with the latter. I run Modest because I'm not sure why I need the extra speed provided by Timid. If you're wondering why I lowered the HP IVs - that's because it gives a Life Orb number (a HP number ending in a 9), which gives Jirachi 11 uses of its Life Orb instead of 10 from full health.
  13. namehtmas

    namehtmas i have seen a sheepish wonder
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    [​IMG]
    Jirachi @ Leftovers
    Trait: Serene Grace
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
    Sassy Nature (+SDef, -Spe)
    IVs: 0 Spe
    - Wish
    - Protect
    - U-turn
    - Toxic

    This is something I've had in mind for a while now - WishTurn Jirachi. The main goal of this set is to always be able to make wish passing a bit easier. The idea is to Wish after forcing a switch, and then either Protect to take the Wish or use a slow U-turn to switch out to another pokemon to heal it. The main problem with wishpassing is getting your intended target in safely. This set allows the bulkier Jirachi to take the hit and get the wish target in for free. Jirachi can heal itself using protect as well, so it has a bit of longevity as well. Toxic is there to catch the opponent by surprise when they are expecting the wish. You can also U-turn out on the expected switch and grab yourself some momentum as well.
  14. Neliel

    Neliel Sacred Sword

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    I tried this set some times ago, and it worked good, not well but still usable. It was a sort of troll set so dont take it very seriously, also i havent created it im sure someone else tought about this earlier than me. The set im talking about is this:

    [​IMG]

    Jirachi @ Leftovers
    Trait: Serene Grace
    EVs: 248 HP / 236 Def / 24 Spd
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Cosmic Power
    - Charge Beam
    - Wish
    - Doom Desire


    It may seem weird, but it has some reasons. Basically i was using a standard wish calm mind jirachi with flash cannon, when i saw someone using cosmic power. I looked for a moment at the moves jirachi has and i found out that jirachi also has charge beam, which always gives it that +1, as well as doom desire, which is stronger compared to flash cannon. I tried it and it worked, it still hates any form of ground types, indeed you need to kill them because otherwhise you cant use charge beam and they will force you to switch, but its a good set anyway. The only things it lacks is a way to quickly damage your opponent, in fact even things like Choice band terrakion gives this set trouble if you dont have any def boost. For the rest, it has the same check and counter of wish calm mind jirachi, mainly fire types and ground, not that much changed. What you get with this set is a stronger defense that will help you tanking any sort of hit, at +1 lets say gliscor does ridicolous damages with earthquake, something like 25%. And if you reach to get +6, then you will love to spam 6 strong doom desire that koes everything.
  15. Onicon

    Onicon

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    We would lie if we told you we hadn't seen that coming. Anyways:

    [​IMG] Sorry guys, we only have that boring BW sprite.
    Jirachi @ Light Clay
    Trait: Serene Grace
    EVs: 240 HP / 236 SpD / 32 Spe
    EVs: 240 HP / 252 Spd / 16 SDef
    Jolly Nature
    - Reflect
    - Light Screen
    - Wish / Iron Head
    - U-turn / Healing Wish

    Dual screen, or as we call it, dual wielding (because it's cool). It resembles Bronzong to an extend but has a few tricks under its sleeve. U-Turn allows you to gain momemtum without killing itself in the process and Wish heals itself or something else. The emphazise is on the "slower" U-Turn in order to gain momentum. In OU there is hardly anything slower than this that somehow can be threatening to Jirachi, maybe except for Magnezone, so you may switch after a Wish when you need Jirachi alive a bit longer. Note, that we deliberately are faster than any non-scarf Tyranitar to order to take advantage of it should we run Terrakion.
    Alternately, you can also play it like a bulkier Latias and sacrifice yourself in exchange for a new life for one of your sweeper. Higher risk, but powerful when you manage to pull it off at the right time. In that case you should run maximum speed in order to launch off Healing Wish as fast as possible.
    This Jirachi is is a good support option for setup sweeper. Thanks to its numerous resistances there are many of those who synergize well with it. Well, basicly every OU setup sweeper not named Lucario - but nothing stops you from running it anyway.
    If it has Wish and U-Turn, both EV spreads can be used. They both have advantages over the other and mostly depend on how long you want to keep Jirachi alive. The first one can stomach more hits and is better at gaining momentum but also have to take more; a trait that comes with gaining momemtum in this case. If you have Healing Wish on your set, it needs as much speed as possible.

    Other options: You can always run SR but probably should leave that to someone more specialized in hazards; it rarely finds an opportunity to set them up. When Light Clay is not desirable, good ol' Leftovers are always an option. When you have Healing Wish, some unconventional methods like Custap Berry might prove useful. Nothing is more satisfying then denying Scarf-Mence its moxie, but it is very risky.
  16. Deglas

    Deglas

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    [​IMG]

    Jirachi @ Life Orb / Leftovers
    Trait: Serene Grace
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 SAtk
    Hasty Nature
    - Gravity
    - Iron Head
    - Thunder
    - DynamicPunch

    Just when you thought Jirachi couldn't get anymore annoying and hax-inducing... Gravirachi shows up. The basic premise of this set is to set up Gravity on a switch, and start smacking things with DynamicPunch and Thunder and Iron Head, moving into paraflinch, flinchfusion, parafusion, or even paraflinchfusion as needed.
    Iron Head is the standard STAB move with that 60% flinch rate, Thunder gets 100% accuracy in Gravity and paralyzes 60% of the time, as well as being a powerful move. DynamicPunch has great coverage and power, gets 83% accuracy in Gravity, and with Serene Grace has a 200% chance to confuse. This set works best on offensive teams, as it is meant to hit hard and force switches. Rain is also appreciated, reducing Fire-type moves' damage, and giving Thunder perfect accuracy regardless of Gravity. As for specific teammates, Sheer Force Landorus-I is the best, because while it loses it's Ground immunity in Gravity, so do its foes; Landorus also gets a never-miss Focus Blast. Other good options include Garchomp, who now can smash Skarmory and Bronzong, and Pokemon that use moves with shaky accuracy *coughStoneEdgecough*. A teammate with a Ground resistance is invaluable. Celebi is the most prominent of these, but the best is Tangrowth. Tangrowth has great physical bulk and Regenerator, letting it take Earthquakes all day, and can retaliate with newly nevermiss Power Whip, Leaf Storm, Leech Seed, and Sleep Powder. Others include Virizion (nevermiss Stone Edge and Focus Blast), and Heracross (nevermiss Megahorn and Stone Edge). If using this set, or especially a defensive version of this set, on a Rain team, Parasect also deserves a mention for its x4 resistance and SubSeeding abilities in the Rain (and nevermiss Leech Seed). Another interesting fact is that the moveset can be translated wholesale to a defensive set with Leftovers, as the foe's prolonged immobility grants many turns of healing.
  17. BlackLight

    BlackLight

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    Oh shit. You just went and posted the most hellish thing I have ever seen in the history of Pokemon, right behind Swagger+Thunder Wave Sableye in hail.
    Still, the set is really, really dependent on Gravity to be up, which is a rather large part of why Gravity isn't a well seen condition. You'd probably end up using this on a dedicated team rather than a stand alone thing, otherwise you're entirely dependent on surviving a hit or two, or forcing a switch, to set up. Still, this thing... I can see it giving results.
  18. youngjake93

    youngjake93

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    Neliel, your set makes me want to run Scarf Charge Beam Meloetta! Seems like a decent late-game sweeper sort of like Scarfmoxmence.

    [​IMG]
    Jirachi @ Air Balloon
    Trait: Serene Grace
    EVs: 252 HP / 44 SAtk / 216 Spe
    Bold Nature (+SpD, -Atk)
    - Recycle
    - Water Pulse
    - Substitute/Wish
    - Thunder/Wish

    Okay, so Jirachi is all about rain abuse and its most common switch-ins are Ground and Fire types. The point of this set is basically, after they pop your balloon, you know they are going to EQ sooo you use Recycle and score yourself a free turn.
    Water Pulse is to hit those Ground and Fire Types hard and Thunder is for Jirachi's signature parahax technique. There's enough speed to outspeed Jolly Gliscor, Adamant Garchomp, Modest(Rock Polish) Landorus.

    A little bit about how it plays:
    Looking at the best Jirachi switch-ins from the stats, the fire types get hit by rain-boosted Water Pulse before forcing you out.
    You can actually switch-in to EQs if you want. Then Gliscor, Donphan, Hippowdon, Sandslash, Landorus, Garchomp(all the ground types listed as counters in usage stats) really don't have a way to hit you. They pop your balloon as you press substitute, then you use recycle as they try to EQ to break the sub. You now have a free substitute and they have no way to break it(except Garchomp's Outrage... like he would want to willingly Outrage lock himself against a steel).
    I guess it sort of plays similarly to SubDisableGar.



    Edit: Deglas I think I would prefer bulk on a setup move-flinch hax-parahax-confusionhax abusing set. If you are going to KO stuff fast, then secondary debuff effects are sort of redundant.
  19. Onicon

    Onicon

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    We have seen Delgas's kind somewhere before ... it is like that old Dusknoir analysis that featured Gravity + Dynamic Punch. Anyways, for Gravity Jirachi we almost feel obliged to have Hidden Power Ice slashed. As neat as Gravity-Thunder is, Gravity can easily be turned against you when you are not prepared. And why relying on teammates when you can do it yourself? Hidden Power Ice and 8 EVs allows you to beat Sheer Force Landorus on switch-in and nails the slower Landorus-T and Gliscor after SR. Think about it!

    Edit: The extra power is required to dish out damage with Dynamic Punch. We have more or less first-hand experience with Dusknoir who has the same Atk. Without power, it is nothing more but a glorified Confuse Ray. That said, unlike Dusknoir Jirachi is faster and can utilize Life Orb better; it at least 2HKO Heatran with it.
  20. Deglas

    Deglas

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    @BlackLight: The set isn't actually as dependent on Gravity as it looks. you typically want Gravity at first, to spread paralysis and confusion, but after Gravity runs out you can often go straight into flinching things to death with Iron Head. Or you can start by flinching things to death, and use Gravity when it suits you. And if you run this on a Rain team, you can use Thunder freely, making Gravity even less necessary. It does work best on a dedicated Gravity team, but it will get good results on other teams too, especially if you have other Pokemon that can also benefit from Gravity (things like the aforementioned Landorus-I and Garchomp-- they like Gravity, but they do not depend on it). Also, thanks for the sig.

    @youngjake93: The debuffing is actually important for compensating for Jirachi's lack of raw power. I'm thinking that Leftovers proabably deserves a slash on this set though, because the longevity might make up for the loss of power. And I did mention that the moveset would also work on a defensive Jirachi.

    @Onicon: I wasn't aware of that Dusknoir set, though I figured that someone else had thought of Gravity + DynamicPunch on something before me. As for HP Ice, it isn't a good idea, as Ice Punch vastly outclasses it. This set also tends to work by setting up Gravity on a switch, then going to town with Thunder and DynamicPunch, mopping up the crippled opponents with Iron Head. Like I said, Garchomp is a good teammate, one of the reasons being that it outpaces unboosted Landorus-I. And of course, misprediction on their part can still lead to them taking a DynamicPunch to the face, putting them in a bad position, and often letting you switch to something better equipped to handle them.

    EDIT: I just tried out Leftovers, and they are viable on this set, even with the EV spread given. I also tried out a Specially Defensive Jiraci in the Rain with Leftovers and this moveset. It was less effective, but not by much. It would certainly be better on balanced or stall teams though.
  21. Halcyon.

    Halcyon. Certified Lumberjack
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    This is fantastic, but since ti really needs to stay alive long enough to keep setting up Gravity, would it be worth investing in some bulk? Maybe but some EV's in HP instead of speed or attack? Just to keep it alive longer.

    Now for my own set. What about this?



    [​IMG]



    Jirachi @ Leftovers
    Trait: Serene Grace
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 SAtk
    Modest Nature

    - Doom Desire
    - Future Sight
    - Protect / U-Turn
    - Wish

    Not perfect but it could be effective alongside a few strong set up sweepers. Only Steel types as well as Starmie and a few others resist both Doom Desire and Future Sight. The point of the set is to use Future Sight and then Doom Desire so that they will both land on the same turn, causing severe damage to most Pokémon. If the opponent switches into a Pokémon that resists both of these moves, like Ferrothorn, Heatran, Bronzong, or Jirachi to absorb the attacks, then you can U-Turn on the predicted switch and go into either a counter to whatever they sent out, or go ingot a setup sweeper that can use them as set up fodder. Things like Haxorus, Landorus, or Thundurus-T would appreciate the free setup. This set would also work well alongside a hazards setter, because it will force your opponent to switch around a lot. You can also use Wish and U-Turn to recover your weakened sweepers to give them a second chance.
  22. Onicon

    Onicon

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    @Delgas: "Vastly outclassing" HP Ice is quite a stretch. 252 Ice Punch hits Garchomps slightly harder but at the cost of Landorus-T and Gliscor who actually are in your speed range - still talking about 0 HP Ice compared to 252 Ice Punch. The main issue is that some things have to be done fast because with Gravity up something is going to stomach an Earthquake or an Earth Power when you don't handle your opponent instantly. We also don't think HP Ice should replace Thunder but Iron Head. That Jirachi has a more offensive approach, at least we think the LO as the primary option indicates that. it isn't going to annoy the opponent long when it cast from its own life and Steel is more or less a poor man's Fighting. What is going to be hit by that nowadays? Salamence and Haxorus, when you don't have ice.


    My editor says that this post sounds provoking. If that is the case, I apologize for it. After all, it is your set and we respect that.
  23. Deglas

    Deglas

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    @Onicon:

    [​IMG]

    Jirachi isn't supposed to demolish the metagame single-handedly. That's what those other five Pokemon are there to help with.
    Don't worry about provoking me, it's practically impossible. Mainly because if someone is provoking me, it has to be intentional or unintentional. If it's unintentional, no point in getting angry, and if it's intentional, I just find it amusing.
  24. Doughboy

    Doughboy house of champions
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    Jirachi @ Chesto Berry
    Trait: Serene Grace
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Calm Mind
    - Thunderbolt
    - Flash Cannon
    - Rest

    A different take on your standard Calm Minding Jirachi. In an attempt to combine the status immunity of Substitute Jirachi and the recovery of WishCM Jirachi comes ChestoResto Jirachi. The aim of this set is to put out in front of a bulky water, such as Tentacruel in rain (yes I did say that), and as they spam their Scald's happily thinking they are trying to get the burn on you, in a moments notice you whip out your Chesto Berry to be good as new. This can effectively give you two chances at a sweep unlike a weakened SubCM Jirachi.

    For my second submission:

    Jirachi @ Choice Band
    Trait: Serene Grace
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Iron Head
    - Ice Punch
    - Fire Punch
    - U-turn

    You know what stings? Choice Scarf Iron Head. You know what stings more? Choice Band Iron Head. While Jirachi may not have the most ultra powerful STAB and moves out there, it does have a niche in its good coverage and annoying Flinchhax. Over a course of 2-3 Iron Head's with flinches, you can be doing more free damage than even 1 super powerful Choice move like Latios' Specs Draco Meteor. Choice Band Jirachi also has another interesting niche, it can act as a roadblock to most Deoxys-D. Choice Band Iron Head is a guaranteeing 3HKO on Deoxys-D, meaning with only two flinches you can prevent that thing from getting up hazards.

    252 Atk Choice Band Jirachi Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Deoxys-D: 109-129 (35.85 - 42.43%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
  25. Lavos Spawn

    Lavos Spawn
    is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Past WCoP Winner

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    jirachi @ light clay
    trait: serene grace
    evs: 252 hp / 158 def / 108 spd
    bold nature
    - stealth rock
    - reflect
    - light screen
    - psychic / body slam

    will add a description later :toast:

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