Other The OU Theorymon Project (CLOSED)

[InfinityX000]

Edited

 

[Magma]

I'm not particularly fond of any of these, but whatever.

Lol. Come on Valmanway. You can't submit a Power Split Bastiodon, then knock the current slate.

Also, certain people seem to be confused about Kyurem, Tentacruel, and Salamence. All 3 of these theorymon are support-based... yet I see a lot of focus being put on them as sweepers.

Snow Warning Kyurem - While bringing Hail into OU is definitely a plus, most Hail abusers still suck and so in the end, this is just a mindless offensive buff. Alex, you said yourself in reply to my other suggestion that we have plenty of wallbreakers and that we don't need any more. I don't see how this is not a contradiction to what you said.

Snow Warning Kyurem isn't going to bring Hail teams back to OU or make Kyurem any more deadly as an attacker. This theorymon is more of an anti-weather supporter, which can be pretty useful now that Rain teams are picking up steam. The accuracy boost on Blizzard is just a secondary bonus, not a primary one. Also, access to Leftovers and a recovery move (that isn't nerfed by Hail) separate Kyurem from Mega Abomasnow.

Nasty Plot Tentacruel - Tenta's only real use in OU last Gen was being a Spinner with much survivability thanks to Rain Dish, which is gone with the weather. 80/100 offenses (Speed's the second stat if you don't know) aren't very good for sweeping, and even if it can outstall Chansey, what's it going to do to the likes of Thundurus-T or Mega Venusaur?

Nasty Plot Tentacruel is not a sweeper. It's a stall-breaker who's role is to support your team's main sweeper by breaking (or atleast weakening) the walls that keep your sweeper from doing it's job. 100 base speed actually works great for stall-breaker Tentacruel, because it allows it to out-speed fast tanks like Landorus-T. Mega Venusaurs that lack Earthquake are beat one-on-one (and Liquid Ooze makes them think twice about using Giga Drain.)

Gale Wings Salamence - The only thing Salamence gets out of this is priority Aerial Ace (lol support on a sweeper). This is actually a big deal, as one of Salamence's major problems is getting revenge killed. At +1, it outspeeds Talonflame and does this:

Gale Wings Salamence is not a sweeper. It's a utility mon that fits perfectly on offensive teams by supporting teammates against opposing sweepers thanks to Tailwind (similar to Thundurus-T's Prankster Thunderwave.) What separates it from Talonflame is access to Defog and extra bulk. All of the talk about the Dragon Dance set is pretty pointless as a priority Aerial Ace just isn't worth the loss of coverage and Moxie.

Anyway, this was a good slate imo. Tough decision, but I'm going to go with Gale Wings Salamence.

 

[Valmanway]

Lol. Come on Valmanway. You can't submit a Power Split Bastiodon, then knock the current slate.

Haha, you got me there. :P

 

[Magma]

Haha, you got me there. :P

Lol. ;)

 

[amzaneok]

Snow Warning Kyurem

I clearly have a thing for Ice-types...

 

[Turn Up]

Magic Bounce Musharna

 

[RowDog]

Ooh, all so delicious.
Magic Bounce Musharna sounds really cool though.

 

[DC-Shadow_Blaze]

In the future, would we be able to discuss buffs to peripheral elements of gameplay such as Hazards and Weather?

Say that we adjusted spikes so that anything that lands on the ground gets retroactive damage (see, Gravity Teams and the abundance of Roost-spamming pillars in OU), would anyone say that such things are worth discussion?

 

[Salemance]

VOTING IS NOW CLOSED

The results are in!

Gale Wings Salamence: 30 Votes
Magic Bounce Musharna: 15 Votes
Nasty Plot Tentacruel: 13 Votes
Snow Warning Kyurem: 21 Votes

The winner of this theorymon voting is Gale Wings Salamence!

....ironic im posting bout this thing winning but that's for another day.

 

[Elveman]

Really, Aerilate Salamence could be just WAY better...
Uh, okay. This thing learns Tailwind, Aerial Ace, Fly, Air Cutter, Hidden Power Flying and Roost. Oh, there's priority Defog if you need it.
I see some possibility of CB Moxie Aerial Ace and Wish/Defog support. Roost is useful too (to avoid super-effective damage from Rock-type attacks and resist Electric attacks)
EDIT: No Moxie with Gale Wings. Poor Salamence

 

[Delibird is Amazing]

Really, Aerilate Salamence could be just WAY better...
Uh, okay. This thing learns Tailwind, Aerial Ace, Fly, Air Cutter, Hidden Power Flying and Roost. Oh, there's priority Defog if you need it.
I see some possibility of CB Moxie Aerial Ace and Wish/Defog support. Roost is useful too (to avoid super-effective damage from Rock-type attacks and resist Electric attacks)

it doesn't have both moxie and gale wings lol

Anyway

252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 588-696 (154.7 - 183.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Salamence Aerial Ace vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 420-496 (110.5 - 130.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

It is quite a lot weaker than talonflame but it is bulkier, has more power on all of its other moves and has priority defog to mess around with

 

[Elveman]

it doesn't have both moxie and gale wings lol

Oh, my bad

 

[RowDog]

Priority Defog I could see working really well with a Sash user if you are getting horribly swept. Clear hazards no problemo and suicide, bring in revenge killer with Sash saving it on 1HP to hopefully OHKO or finish off the opponent. Though this is more of a supportive buff for Salamence, as priority aerial ace really isn't that strong still, and it would be taking on a completely different role to what it usually does.

Be interesting to see how you could abuse this. Any good ideas for some good partners for it? As I think what it is supporting is what will make Gale Wings mence really shine.

 

[skies]

Ugh, people just see Gale Wings Salamence and think: COOL GALE WINGS! In my genuine opinion, Gale Wings Salamence is one of the worst yet. It can't pull off a Defensive set of Defog + Roost because it loses Intimidate, Aerial Ace is piss weak, and then you've got idk priority Tailwind? It may be bulkier than Talonflame, but it is far different. I really think this is a waste of potential and Gale Wings is not going to help it at all. Salamence is bulky, but not that bulky without investment. A quick Defog may be nice, but I'd rather stick to Mandibuzz for Defog + Roost.

 

[Usatoday]

Never mind the fact that defog would be illegal on Salamence as it got via gen four hm where as gale wings is a gen six ability so they would be incompatible.

chou edit: Compatibility has nothing to do with theorymons...

 

[Mowtom]

What about a physically defensive set like this?

Salamence @ Leftovers
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Roost
- Defog
- Dragon Claw
- Toxic

Priority Roost and Defog are the two best things that Gale Wings Salamence can do now. As it doesn't get good Flying-type attacking moves, this is clearly a supportive buff. The set is mostly self-explanatory. Roost and Defog make for a great support mon, Dragon Claw is STAB with great neutral coverage, and Toxic is mostly filler, to be honest. If someone has a better idea, please say what it is. This is physically defensive over specially because many top threats in the metagame right now are physical attackers more so than special attackers. While Gale Wings isn't the best buff that Slamence can get, I think that it can use this set to do good things with it.

 

[jbtc10]

As has been said, the Defog + Roost set is already outclassed by Mandibuzz, who has a better typing for the role, much greater bulk and even better offensive capability because of Foul Play. Mandi can tank +2 hits from things like Mega Pinsir and KO back with Foul Play, whereas max Def Mence gets KO'd and can't really do anything to stop the threats either.

Probably the only real thing that comes of Gale Wings for Mence is having a priority move for his DD set, but Dragonite already has that + Multiscale which helps him set up so he's pretty much outclassed in that department too, so the ability in general seems a bit limited and kind of gimmicky for him tbh, and he'd probably even rather his other existing abilities like Moxie or Intimidate.

 

[-Flygon-]

Seriously, just because Gale Wings works for Talonflame does NOT mean that any Flying type with Gale Wings will automatically become better. Salamence is a prime example. It only has Aerial Ace, Fly, Air Cutter and HP Flying as Flying attacks, all of which, to be frank, suck ass. Defog is not compatible, as previously stated, so the only viable option is Tailwind. Absolutely not worth the lack of Moxie or Intimidate, imo. If Salamence did get Gale Wings, it'd be completely outclassed by Moxie and Intimidate, and a complete waste of an astounding ability.

 

[skies]

rip in peace snow warning kyurem tu.u
alexwolf , you're very intelligent on this metagame, would you mind explaining your thoughts on Gale Wings Salamence?

 

[deepbluejeer]

I thought of Bulky DD and Life Orb DD sets with priority Roost/Aerial Ace, but I concluded that there really isn't anything that Salamence does that Charizard X or Dragonite do better. A set with DD/Roost/Aerial Ace/Dragon Claw still suffers from the same problems as Dragonite, but it's more difficult for Mence to set up since he doesn't have Multiscale to fall back on. A bulky DD set is also outclassed by Zard X since the latter can't be burned. The best I can think of is this:

Salamence @ Life Orb
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Dragon Claw
- Earthquake
- Aerial Ace / Roost

Flying-type priority is still flying-type priority, I guess. Priority Roost could also be helpful to avoid those stray Ice Shards too. Other than that, it seems you're better off using Zard X or Dragonite as your DD...

 

[Mowtom]

I thought all move-ability illegalities were ignored for this project?

 

[Salemance]

rip in peace snow warning kyurem tu.u
alexwolf , you're very intelligent on this metagame, would you mind explaining your thoughts on Gale Wings Salamence?

Gale Wings Salamence: Priority Roost, Defog, Aerial Ace, and Tailwind are all pretty fucking sweet. Offensive sets get strong priority and can give speed boosts to teammates in emergency situations with Tailwind, while defensive sets become much more viable with priority Roost and Defog.

This front the voting bit, citing defog and roost as big options or so along with tailwind.

 

[Delibird is Amazing]

Never mind the fact that defog would be illegal on Salamence as it got via gen four hm where as gale wings is a gen six ability so they would be incompatible.

alexwolf doesn't care about stuff like that, so it doesn't matter.

 

[Jaroda]

Salamence didn't need a new ability to be better if you ask me. Intimidate and Moxie are abilities a lot of pokemon would kill to have, even though it's hard to argue how much better Aerialate would have been considering he can learn Double-Edge, Thrash and Hyper Voice. His movepool is unique too to a degree, having good special, physical and support options. The problem is a combination of everything really, and his competition. You can't deny CharX's superiority as a DD sweeper, having far better typing offensively and defensively, and they sit at the same speed tier. Dragonite has a much easier time setting up with Multiscale and has Extremespeed. Haxorus, while frailer, has Mold Breaker and can get past Unaware users and Fairies better. Garchomp has an optional mega and that coveted 102 speed tier for scarf purposes. All of these dragons are specialized and the best at something. Salamence is kind of just ok at all of them. I think better ways to help would be to give him better STAB moves. If he could learn Hurricane than he would be a fearsome sweeper in the rain with Dragon Dance or a Scarf because it also learns Hydro Pump and can easily go mixed, with good setup opportunity thanks to Intimidate. Hell, I think just Bulk Up might have been a good enough addition coupled with Roost, Intimidate and his good speed stat. But what would really up Salamence's game would be simply switching his SpA and Spd stats around, giving him 110 Spd. This is really all he needs to set himself apart, being the new fastest physical dragon in OU. But, we can't suggest stat changes.

So yeah, I'm uninspired to utilized Gale Wings for a set, as not even Defog can be utilized. And we already have to users of priority Tailwind (Talonflame/Tornadus-I). And priority Roost isn't that great when you have to give up Intimidate which was one of the things making him artificially bulky. I mean, unless you do something weird like.

Salamence@Leftovers
Gale Wings
Impish 252 HP / 130 Df / 126 SpD
~ Roost
~ Dragon Dance
~ Dragon Claw
~ Earthquake/Fire Fang/Aqua Tail

A new take on bulky dragon dancing. Admittedly priority Roost can be handy in removing your quad weakness to Ice and weakness to Rock. But Dragonite still has 91/95/100 defenses and Multiscale compared to Salamences 95/80/80. After a DD or two the priority Roost only helps against Ice Shard really, Dragonite would still pull this off better...

 

[-Flygon-]

Even with priority Roost and Defog, I believe that GW Salamence, as I previously stated, is not viable when compared to Moxie and Intimidate sets. If Mence got Brave Bird, or some other powerful Flying move, I would say otherwise, but I just don't see why you should run a utility Mence in place of a Moxie/Intimidate Mence. Mandibuzz is better at Defog and general utilities (Knock off, Taunt, etc.), IMO. (And no 4x weaknesses either. :P)

Essentially, any other sort of Mence is superior to the utility GW sets described here. However, this is just my opinion, so feel free to ponder the possible advantages of GW Mence some more, but my opinion is steadfast.

Crap, I was Greninja'd. Jaroda!!! Lol