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I figured I'd stop lurking on this thread to finally post on this slate, as Infernape is one of my favorite Pokemon.
But Contrary Infernape? Ehh... I just don't really dig it.
Intimidate MegaChomp seems intriguing though. I'm always a fan of more Pokemon that have Intimidate that don't immediately begin Dragon Dancing as soon as they intimidated a Pokemon.
Tail Glow Raichu is uh... Well, really, what hasn't been said? It's basically a faster, less powerful, less bulky Manaphy. If it had even slightly more power than Manaphy, I'd like this change a lot more. That being said, it could work as a core with Manaphy if you really, really hated stall. Not that Stall has many answers to Manaphy as it is, though.
Dragon/Steel Mega Aggron though... That's a lot more interesting. It's kinda like a physical, less bulky, Dialga Jr. Really cool imo.
Real talk, this thing is FAR from broken. The only way this thing is broken is if we ban Choice Scarf from OU. Wanna know what's been KILLING the usage statistics lately?
*knock knock*
"Who's there?"
"Landorus-Therian"
Yeah Scarf Lando is on a massive number of teams and can EASILY RK Infernape. Same goes for Keldeo. And don't even get me started on SmogBird. There are plenty of popular threats circulating that can revenge KO Infernape.
I heavily disagree with this. Scarf Landorus-T checks it, great. Can it switch in? No, Overheat will KO it instantly at +2 and it KOes at +0 if Stealth Rock is on the field anyways. Only 252 HP variants live, but then they're smacked by another Overheat to follow it. Let's say that you don't use Overheat and Landorus-T comes in to say a Close Combat. Infernape goes to a teammate to take the incoming Earthquake. Then, later on, after Landorus-T is worn down, it too will fall to an Overheat or even a Close Combat at low enough health. Landorus-Therian is not a reliable way to beat Infernape because Overheat always KOes it from full health, or beats any non-Scarfed variant. Keldeo speed ties with Infernape, and can not switch into a Close Combat. Also, SubCM, Keldeo's most common set, fails to KO a +1 Infernape with Scald even after a LO round (it is left with like a 10% chance to KO after LO, but more likely than not it will not). Keldeo can not switch into a Close Combat, and none-Choice Specs variants fail to KO with Scald from full health. Infernape wins later in the match when it is worn down. Talonflame? I've already gone over this, but it hates Overheat and what then? Later in the match, it will die from Infernape's onslaught. Infernape just goes to a teammate if it feels threatened then beats them late game? These can soft check, but please find me a hard check or a counter and I will not think it is broken. Landorus-T, Keldeo, and Talonflame will all fall to Infernape eventually. Just because a Pokemon has weaknesses does not make it not broken. You could revenge kill Mega Salamence with a Scarfed Latios, but that doesn't make it not broken.
I heavily disagree with this. Scarf Landorus-T checks it, great. Can it switch in? No, Overheat will KO it instantly at +2 and it KOes at +0 if Stealth Rock is on the field anyways. Only 252 HP variants live, but then they're smacked by another Overheat to follow it. Let's say that you don't use Overheat and Landorus-T comes in to say a Close Combat. Infernape goes to a teammate to take the incoming Earthquake. Then, later on, after Landorus-T is worn down, it too will fall to an Overheat or even a Close Combat at low enough health. Landorus-Therian is not a reliable way to beat Infernape because Overheat always KOes it from full health, or beats any non-Scarfed variant. Keldeo speed ties with Infernape, and can not switch into a Close Combat. Also, SubCM, Keldeo's most common set, fails to KO a +1 Infernape with Scald even after a LO round (it is left with like a 10% chance to KO after LO, but more likely than not it will not). Keldeo can not switch into a Close Combat, and none-Choice Specs variants fail to KO with Scald from full health. Infernape wins later in the match when it is worn down. Talonflame? I've already gone over this, but it hates Overheat and what then? Later in the match, it will die from Infernape's onslaught. Infernape just goes to a teammate if it feels threatened then beats them late game? These can soft check, but please find me a hard check or a counter and I will not think it is broken. Landorus-T, Keldeo, and Talonflame will all fall to Infernape eventually. Just because a Pokemon has weaknesses does not make it not broken. You could revenge kill Mega Salamence with a Scarfed Latios, but that doesn't make it not broken.
My issue with Infernape is the high speed tier along with the ease of sweeping capabilities. Like Overheat variants will just take a dump on all the bulky water types in the tier and because a lot of these are physically defensive it paves the way for it to run sets like Overheat, Focus Blast ( < edit), Grass Knot, vaccuum wave with not a whole lot of cost. Also it's not exactly a fair assessment to claim it wouldn't be over centralizing. Scarf variants, physical and special sets, Slack Off, Taunt, Will-O-Wisp. I mean sure this is cool concept but it comes down to the same reasons I didn't vote for Protean hydreigon. They put an extraordinary amount of burden on team-building coupled in with the fact you have the 5 partners backing it up. Rather not see such a big power creep cause there's actually a lot of minor stuff that people are overlooking that would make this a bit much. Also the whole part of Lando-T checking it is sort of a problem in theory because Lando-T usage is dependent on threat levels and how extreme those threat levels are. It's a blanket check to powerful threats, it never was and in a lot of cases from the way teams are built, never will be a definitive check to anything if I'm going to be blunt about it. In fact its usage isn't even as high as it's being made out to be when Lando-I is right now the Lando variant people want to use just for being able to take a dump on the tier with its versatility. Also Celticpride Infernape has U-Turn, Latias is a shaky check at best that will lose to the pursuit and dark spam support in the back.
Tbf I think M-Garchomps Sand Force ability is overrated in practice but I think Intimidate is a pretty cool concept for the sake of just having more opportunities to set up or punch holes in the team. It's also bulky as hell and physical attackers are just going to be set up fodder with this concept.
Dragon / Steel M-Aggron oml I needed something like Dialga in the OU tier for balanced and defensive builds. I guess my only issue as far as that comparison goes is that Dialga has a bit more useful coverage while Aggron I feel gets the short end of the stick by being a physically offensive behemoth. The resists and neutralities of this thing is a beauty and I would definitely love seeing this in action.
No comment on Raichu since it's already been touched upon but Hogg and pika pal hit the nail on the head with what I think.
I heavily disagree with this. Scarf Landorus-T checks it, great. Can it switch in? No, Overheat will KO it instantly at +2 and it KOes at +0 if Stealth Rock is on the field anyways. Only 252 HP variants live, but then they're smacked by another Overheat to follow it. Let's say that you don't use Overheat and Landorus-T comes in to say a Close Combat. Infernape goes to a teammate to take the incoming Earthquake. Then, later on, after Landorus-T is worn down, it too will fall to an Overheat or even a Close Combat at low enough health. Landorus-Therian is not a reliable way to beat Infernape because Overheat always KOes it from full health, or beats any non-Scarfed variant. Keldeo speed ties with Infernape, and can not switch into a Close Combat. Also, SubCM, Keldeo's most common set, fails to KO a +1 Infernape with Scald even after a LO round (it is left with like a 10% chance to KO after LO, but more likely than not it will not). Keldeo can not switch into a Close Combat, and none-Choice Specs variants fail to KO with Scald from full health. Infernape wins later in the match when it is worn down. Talonflame? I've already gone over this, but it hates Overheat and what then? Later in the match, it will die from Infernape's onslaught. Infernape just goes to a teammate if it feels threatened then beats them late game? These can soft check, but please find me a hard check or a counter and I will not think it is broken. Landorus-T, Keldeo, and Talonflame will all fall to Infernape eventually. Just because a Pokemon has weaknesses does not make it not broken. You could revenge kill Mega Salamence with a Scarfed Latios, but that doesn't make it not broken.
Well I certainly think you may be overstating Infernape's ability to get into play. Remember, it's pretty damn frail, so it's not going to willingly switch into a lot of the metagame. You're absolutely right that the number of counters to +2 Infernape are pretty small, but it can easily be checked, and it's not exactly a cakewalk to get in safely. Regarding Keldeo, while SubCM might be the most common set, usage does not equal viability. Scarf Keldeo is extremely useful and viable, and plenty of people still use it (myself included). I understand that Infernape may not be FUN to switch into, but you can force it out plenty easily.
Tbf I think M-Garchomps Sand Force ability is overrated in practice but I think Intimidate is a pretty cool concept for the sake of just having more opportunities to set up or punch holes in the team. It's also bulky as hell and physical attackers are just going to be set up fodder with this concept.
Do you mean underrated? I really don't think anyone is hyping up Megachomp having Sand Force lmao.
But I agree 100% with Mega Aggron. Excellent typing and Gengar is immune to it's two weaknesses, and Mega Aggron can act as excellent T Wave support for Gengar to hit Mons that would normally be faster.
Oooo really good slate! On one hand, there's my favourite Pokemon. Then it faces some tough competition from the extremely bulky mini Dialga, a mouse that threatens to 2HKO the entire metagame at +3, and a land shark that already has good bulk and hits like a freaking truck.
Contrary Infernape
I'll try not to be biased because Infernape is my favourite Pokemon, but this is a cool buff. It has merit over Serperior in that it's MUCH more versatile because it has an actual movepool. It has reliable recovery in Slack Off (lol Slack Off for a Pokemon with a dex entry of "It uses a special kind of martial arts involving all its limbs. Its fire never goes out."). As stated many times, it has access to Overheat and Close Combat, both of which are STAB. Overheat is the same as Leaf Storm, while Close Combat boosts its mediocre defenses. Also it's worth noting it gets U-turn which it can use to wear down some of it's checks and counters and can also give you the advantage. Has a great speed tier, decent enough offenses, wide movepool with support options like Stealth Rocks, Taunt, and Will-o-Wisp. Good buff, I like it.
Intimidate Mega Garchomp
I actually like this one. Mega Garchomp already has good physical bulk (and special bulk) along with those monstrous offenses. I think it'll function well as an offensive tank, being able to take most physical hits relatively well and being able to dish out a ton of damage (hits just as hard as LO positive natured Kyurem-B's Ice Beam with a Draco). You could also go fully defensive, as a defensive set doesn't seem out of the question and it has Stealth Rocks and Dragon Tail to make use of its good bulk.
Tail Glow Raichu
Not a whole lot different from Nasty Plot, but it does make it more threatening obviously. It's speed tier is great, being able to put in work vs all playstyles because of its power and speed (though bulk sucks). It has pretty decent coverage + Volt Switch which is nice. The bulk is the main problem as getting boosts vs anything not terribly passive will be pretty hard. But if it gets a boost, it can wreck stuff pretty well.
Steel/Dragon Mega Aggron
This is a great defensive typing, as it gives a neutrality to Fire and resistances to Water and Electric so it can switch into some more special attacks. Filter still works fine as Fighting and Ground are usually physical and Mega Aggron takes physical hits like a champ. It's also able to hit harder with STAB Dragon Tail and Stealth Rocks just like Mega Garchomp. Lack of recovery outside of Rest sucks, but Mega Aggron seems pretty good with this buff. It misses the Ice, Fairy, and Dragon resist, however. Tough competition with Infernape, though.
Latias by textbook definition is a counter. Team support and U-Turn is not considered in the purest sense when determining what is a counter. That's not to say something checked by Lati@s that has U-Turn can't be broken, BW Landorus-I set the standard for that (and this actually looks very similar). Latias is a counter to U-Turn Infernape, just not the Tyranitar that comes after it.
Latias by textbook definition is a counter. Team support and U-Turn is not considered in the purest sense when determining what is a counter. That's not to say something checked by Lati@s that has U-Turn can't be broken, BW Landorus-I set the standard for that (and this actually looks very similar). Latias is a counter to U-Turn Infernape, just not the Tyranitar that comes after it.
Yes but by this logic you're ignoring the cores and meta-game trends associated or what would be associated, hence theorymon, in the fact that this would be a sure fire stop to something that potentially can create an unhealthy aspect. If we're going off of definitions then sure it's a counter, if we're going off of the realistic scenarios and practicality of it all, then there's definitely a case as to why Infernape's concept would not promote a healthy meta-game for the theorymon meta. That's my issue with Infernape just like it was Hydreigon. When you take into account what these extra aspects are outside of just the concept in question you start to see a lot more and will make you realize what potentially can occur.
I don't really even get why Landorus-T is being considered as a check. Its only chance to really come in would be against mixed sets (Utility would carry WoW with CC, and offensive sets WILL want Overheat's obscene boost), but then Intimidate is instead boosting Infernape's CC damage against it
+1 4 Atk Life Orb Infernape Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 24 Def Landorus-T: 138-164 (43.2 - 51.4%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Landorus-T Earthquake vs. +1 0 HP / 0 Def Infernape: 318-374 (108.5 - 127.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Meaning Lando-T threatens Infernape out once , and then can no longer switch into it.
Scarf Keldeo's faster, but he again is only going to check particularly well once if he's dealing with this
4 Atk Life Orb Infernape Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Keldeo: 188-224 (58.2 - 69.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Greninja wasn't particularly easy to get in safely, and granted he was faster, but did that stop him from centralizing the tier? Infernape naturally hits harder thanks to not just boosting ability, but much higher BP on his moves of choice. CC also means that he's no immediately revenge fodder if he boosts his defense enough. Hell, he could probably afford to invest in them a bit at his offenses expense since Overheat can boost him so quickly anyway. A completely uninvested Infernape is a mere 5 stat points below full Sp. Attack Serperior, which is considered sufficient offenses already despite the latter's awful coverage essentially making it Steel Bait.
Overheat would not only hit more and thus give more set-up chances than Leaf Storm, but Infernape is immune to burns, fully able to play mixed, lacks the same HP coverage snafu, and outright smacks his most common resistors hard with his other STAB coverage move; compared to Serp who risks losing momentum altogether if it predicts wrong on HP or Dragon Pulse, even if Infernape picks CC against an OH target, regardless of the mixed damage, he still benefits because he got a bit of a defense boost out of it. There is virtually no situation in which Infernape is at a disadvantage while momentum is with his trainer (which basically just requires nominal Voltturn support): if he clicks the right coverage, something dies; if he clicks a STAB at the wrong time, he gets a boost and might beat the switch-in regardless; if he clicks the right STAB, he gets the boost AND the kill.
And to reiterate, most of my comments are concerning a mixed offensive set. That doesn't touch on potential Utility sets or Scarf. This thing just looks more and more obscene the more I observe it.
Mega Aggron
To discuss something I probably will vote for, that Dragon Typing does a great service in eliminating Aggron's Water neutrality and Fire weakness alone. The standard tank set now barely avoids the OHKO from Zard-Y in the Sun
252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 240 SpD Mega Aggron in Sun: 289-342 (84 - 99.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Which means he can, in a panic moment, Paralyze it, throw up rocks, or even kill back if he carries Stone Edge.
Going down the viability rankings, some things the new typing helps him check
Keldeo check
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 252 HP / 16+ Def Filter Mega Aggron: 135-159 (39.2 - 46.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 240 SpD Mega Aggron: 123-146 (35.7 - 42.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
0 Atk Mega Aggron Outrage vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Keldeo: 187-222 (57.8 - 68.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 Atk Mega Aggron Thunder Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Keldeo: 158-186 (48.9 - 57.5%) -- 92.6% chance to 2HKO
Azumarill
0 Atk Mega Aggron Thunder Punch vs. 92 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 174-206 (47.8 - 56.5%) -- 85.9% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Superpower vs. 252 HP / 16+ Def Filter Mega Aggron: 153-181 (44.4 - 52.6%) -- 21.5% chance to 2HKO
Zard-X
+1 252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 16+ Def Mega Aggron: 186-219 (54 - 63.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 Atk Mega Aggron Outrage vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Charizard X: 314-372 (105.7 - 125.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Altaria
+1 252+ Atk Pixilate Mega Altaria Return vs. 252 HP / 16+ Def Mega Aggron: 136-162 (39.5 - 47%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
168+ SpA Pixilate Mega Altaria Hyper Voice vs. 252 HP / 240 SpD Mega Aggron: 160-190 (46.5 - 55.2%) -- 69.5% chance to 2HKO
0 Atk Mega Aggron Heavy Slam (120 BP) vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Mega Altaria: 320-378 (90.6 - 107%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
SD Talonflame
+2 252 Atk Talonflame Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 16+ Def Mega Aggron: 123-145 (35.7 - 42.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
0 Atk Mega Aggron Outrage vs. 120 HP / 0 Def Talonflame: 229-270 (70 - 82.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Non-FB Thundurus
76 Atk Life Orb Thundurus Superpower vs. 252 HP / 16+ Def Filter Mega Aggron: 88-105 (25.5 - 30.5%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 240 SpD Mega Aggron: 86-101 (25 - 29.3%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
Mega Manectric
252 SpA Mega Manectric Overheat vs. 252 HP / 240 SpD Mega Aggron: 135-159 (39.2 - 46.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
-1 0 Atk Mega Aggron Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Manectric: 156-184 (55.5 - 65.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Being able to abuse a Dragon STAB on top of the defensive changes for the typing not only would improve Aggron's ability to serve as a Wall/Tank, but may give some new life to the idea of a Rock Polish cleaner with his bulk, how well he stomaches common priority, and having a STAB with relatively few resistances to watch for (Heavy Slam covering Fairies and EQ for Steels).
About Contrary Infernape, I think that Assault Vest Azumarill could be an excellent check for it. Resists both STABs, takes only moderate damage from Grass Knot, even at +2, and can destroy it with a single Waterfall:
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Infernape Overheat vs. 240 HP / 16 SpD Assault Vest Azumarill: 186-218 (46.3 - 54.3%) -- 59.8% chance to 2HKO
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Infernape Grass Knot (60 BP) vs. 240 HP / 16 SpD Assault Vest Azumarill: 231-273 (57.6 - 68%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Waterfall vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Infernape: 422-498 (144 - 169.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Even if Infernape manages to grab a boost in Defense thanks to Close Combat it still has the potential to be OHKOed or crippled enough to be defeated by an Aqua Jet:
252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Waterfall vs. +1 0 HP / 0 Def Infernape: 282-332 (96.2 - 113.3%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. +1 0 HP / 0 Def Infernape: 140-168 (47.7 - 57.3%) -- 87.9% chance to 2HKO
I'll comment more in detail about the current slate later.
I'm speed creeping max base 70. If you guys think there's a more important tier to creep, I'm sure you can optimize the EVs however you see fit. Outrage/Dragon Claw is power vs. not locking yourself; SD vs. Stone Miss is really just whether or not you really think you need the coverage. I'd go SD over SE because that set lets you absolutely wreck stall and balance. You'll be able to set up all over the meta.
Regular font calcs are attacks against Garchomp; Italicized calcs are for Garchomp's own attacks.
-1 252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Garchomp: 280-332 (66.6 - 79%) -- guaranteed 2HKO 176 Atk Mega Garchomp Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Mega Metagross: 300-354 (99.6 - 117.6%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
(note that you don't really want to switch into Metagross, but that's a 4x SE Tough Claws move you just tanked)
-1 252 Atk Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Garchomp: 105-124 (25 - 29.5%) -- guaranteed 4HKO 0 SpA Mega Garchomp Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 8 SpD Landorus-T: 195-231 (51 - 60.4%) -- 90.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (I calc'd separate sets just to show Chomp's power)
-1 0 Atk Gliscor Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Garchomp: 61-73 (14.5 - 17.3%) -- possible 6HKO 0 SpA Mega Garchomp Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Gliscor: 208-246 (58.7 - 69.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal (PDef Glisc) 176 Atk Mega Garchomp Outrage vs. 244 HP / 0 Def Gliscor: 190-225 (53.9 - 63.9%) -- 89.5% chance to 2HKO after Poison Heal(SpDef Glisc)
-1 252 Atk Mega Lopunny Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Garchomp: 204-240 (48.5 - 57.1%) -- 92.2% chance to 2HKO 176 Atk Mega Garchomp Outrage vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Lopunny: 241-285 (88.9 - 105.1%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
+1 84 Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Garchomp: 130-154 (30.9 - 36.6%) -- 65.1% chance to 3HKO 176 Atk Mega Garchomp Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 0+ Def Mega Scizor: 130-154 (37.9 - 44.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Garchomp: 139-165 (33 - 39.2%) -- 99.9% chance to 3HKO 176 Atk Mega Garchomp Outrage vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Talonflame: 303-357 (102 - 120.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
-1 252+ Atk Life Orb Excadrill Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Garchomp: 142-169 (33.8 - 40.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO 176 Atk Mega Garchomp Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Excadrill: 576-678 (159.5 - 187.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
-1 252+ Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Garchomp: 97-115 (23 - 27.3%) -- 63.6% chance to 4HKO 176 Atk Mega Garchomp Outrage vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Gyarados: 213-252 (64.3 - 76.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
-1 0 Atk Hippowdon Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Garchomp: 70-84 (16.6 - 20%) -- possible 5HKO 0 SpA Mega Garchomp Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Hippowdon: 213-252 (50.7 - 60%) -- 85.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (P. Def)
176 Atk Mega Garchomp Outrage vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Hippowdon: 199-235 (47.3 - 55.9%) -- 23.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (Sp. Def)
-1 252 Atk Tyranitar Crunch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Garchomp: 79-94 (18.8 - 22.3%) -- possible 5HKO 176 Atk Mega Garchomp Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Tyranitar: 258-306 (64 - 75.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
-1 252 Atk Mega Gallade Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Garchomp: 139-165 (33 - 39.2%) -- 99.9% chance to 3HKO 176 Atk Mega Garchomp Outrage vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Gallade: 240-283 (86.6 - 102.1%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
-1 192+ Atk Gyarados Bounce vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Garchomp: 84-100 (20 - 23.8%) -- guaranteed 5HKO -1 176 Atk Mega Garchomp Outrage vs. 88 HP / 4 Def Gyarados: 186-219 (52.6 - 62%) -- 98.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
-1 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Return vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Garchomp: 147-174 (35 - 41.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO 176 Atk Mega Garchomp Outrage vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Pinsir: 196-232 (72.3 - 85.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
So as you can see, M-Garchomp can clearly take a beating from a NUMBER of S through A- ranked mons and retaliate with a major hit. Obviously, it's not going to switch in on all of that and stay in, but the calcs really just show what it CAN take. You can also play with the Defense stat if you want to tank more. I really only speed creeped 70 so that it could reliably KO Bisharp and things like Breloom once rocks are down (I did the calcs for Breloom. Draco Meteor and Outrage both OHKO after rocks, and have a good shot at it without rocks).
I'm speed creeping max base 70. If you guys think there's a more important tier to creep, I'm sure you can optimize the EVs however you see fit. Outrage/Dragon Claw is power vs. not locking yourself; SD vs. Stone Miss is really just whether or not you really think you need the coverage. I'd go SD over SE because that set lets you absolutely wreck stall and balance. You'll be able to set up all over the meta.
Regular font calcs are attacks against Garchomp; Italicized calcs are for Garchomp's own attacks.
-1 252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Garchomp: 280-332 (66.6 - 79%) -- guaranteed 2HKO 176 Atk Mega Garchomp Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Mega Metagross: 300-354 (99.6 - 117.6%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
(note that you don't really want to switch into Metagross, but that's a 4x SE Tough Claws move you just tanked)
-1 252 Atk Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Garchomp: 105-124 (25 - 29.5%) -- guaranteed 4HKO 0 SpA Mega Garchomp Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 8 SpD Landorus-T: 195-231 (51 - 60.4%) -- 90.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (I calc'd separate sets just to show Chomp's power)
-1 0 Atk Gliscor Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Garchomp: 61-73 (14.5 - 17.3%) -- possible 6HKO 0 SpA Mega Garchomp Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Gliscor: 208-246 (58.7 - 69.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal (PDef Glisc)
176 Atk Mega Garchomp Outrage vs. 244 HP / 0 Def Gliscor: 190-225 (53.9 - 63.9%) -- 89.5% chance to 2HKO after Poison Heal(SpDef Glisc)
-1 252 Atk Mega Lopunny Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Garchomp: 204-240 (48.5 - 57.1%) -- 92.2% chance to 2HKO 176 Atk Mega Garchomp Outrage vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Lopunny: 241-285 (88.9 - 105.1%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
+1 84 Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Garchomp: 130-154 (30.9 - 36.6%) -- 65.1% chance to 3HKO 176 Atk Mega Garchomp Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 0+ Def Mega Scizor: 130-154 (37.9 - 44.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Garchomp: 139-165 (33 - 39.2%) -- 99.9% chance to 3HKO 176 Atk Mega Garchomp Outrage vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Talonflame: 303-357 (102 - 120.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
-1 252+ Atk Life Orb Excadrill Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Garchomp: 142-169 (33.8 - 40.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO 176 Atk Mega Garchomp Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Excadrill: 576-678 (159.5 - 187.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
-1 252+ Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Garchomp: 97-115 (23 - 27.3%) -- 63.6% chance to 4HKO 176 Atk Mega Garchomp Outrage vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Gyarados: 213-252 (64.3 - 76.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
-1 0 Atk Hippowdon Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Garchomp: 70-84 (16.6 - 20%) -- possible 5HKO 0 SpA Mega Garchomp Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Hippowdon: 213-252 (50.7 - 60%) -- 85.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (P. Def)
176 Atk Mega Garchomp Outrage vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Hippowdon: 199-235 (47.3 - 55.9%) -- 23.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (Sp. Def)
-1 252 Atk Tyranitar Crunch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Garchomp: 79-94 (18.8 - 22.3%) -- possible 5HKO 176 Atk Mega Garchomp Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Tyranitar: 258-306 (64 - 75.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
-1 252 Atk Mega Gallade Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Garchomp: 139-165 (33 - 39.2%) -- 99.9% chance to 3HKO 176 Atk Mega Garchomp Outrage vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Gallade: 240-283 (86.6 - 102.1%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
-1 192+ Atk Gyarados Bounce vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Garchomp: 84-100 (20 - 23.8%) -- guaranteed 5HKO -1 176 Atk Mega Garchomp Outrage vs. 88 HP / 4 Def Gyarados: 186-219 (52.6 - 62%) -- 98.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
-1 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Return vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Garchomp: 147-174 (35 - 41.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO 176 Atk Mega Garchomp Outrage vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Pinsir: 196-232 (72.3 - 85.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
So as you can see, M-Garchomp can clearly take a beating from a NUMBER of S through A- ranked mons and retaliate with a major hit. Obviously, it's not going to switch in on all of that and stay in, but the calcs really just show what it CAN take. You can also play with the Defense stat if you want to tank more. I really only speed creeped 70 so that it could reliably KO Bisharp and things like Breloom once rocks are down (I did the calcs for Breloom. Draco Meteor and Outrage both OHKO after rocks, and have a good shot at it without rocks).
Yeah Idk the exact calcs and granted this isn't exactly an answer to it but Mamoswine has a good chance to just stop you right now and Timid Gardevoir (Pre-mega) gets a free Hyper Voice with the speed investment you have right now. I think anything past that like Kyurem-B is investing in a lot of speed compromising bulk but if I were to build on this I'd like to not lose to base 80s. Whether or not it's important is a bit subjective but considering those two things I mentioned short of just make balance even harder to account for I would like to think it has some merit to it.
Yeah Idk the exact calcs and granted this isn't exactly an answer to it but Mamoswine has a good chance to just stop you right now and Timid Gardevoir (Pre-mega) gets a free Hyper Voice with the speed investment you have right now. I think anything past that like Kyurem-B is investing in a lot of speed compromising bulk but if I were to build on this I'd like to not lose to base 80s. Whether or not it's important is a bit subjective but considering those two things I mentioned short of just make balance even harder to account for I would like to think it has some merit to it.
I didn't even bother looking at Mamo because of Ice Shard. I know -1 Ice Shard probably won't KO from full, but you won't be leaving it in against Mamo anyways…
Gardevoir is another thing I don't really want to consider only because it's a special attacker and Intimidate MegaChomp is geared to handle physically-oriented threats. I was a little selective in the calcs I did because those were really just popular physical things that were worth calcing.
If you want to take on the base 80s, you're going to have to sacrifice a good deal of power or bulk. I'd probably take it from the power, because you have SD to make up for the drop.
So this isn't a one liner the based D rank Chandelure is a HARD COUNTER as it is immune to both STABS and resists Grass Knot, although watch out for random Thunder Punch if someone is going to use that
also Lampent does the job better due to its lower weight so it takes less damage from Grass Knot, and it can abuse the broken item that is Eviolite
And if anyone asks why Infernape has a happy face its cause its CONTRARY lel
Adding my 2 cents to some already sound discussion:
Contrary Infernape: Besides the obvious moves like Overheat and CC, I also really like the potential use of Vacuum Wave. V dub doesn't see a lot of usage which I think is a shame for such a sexy special move. Overheat + Nasty plot in one move can change that. Super strong candidate.
Intimidate Mega Garchomp: Like others have said, I wish Mega Chomp had rough skin and Regular Chomp had intimidate. No reliable recovery also hinders its defensive strategies
Tail Glow Raichu: Nothing new to add that hasn't already been said. Another strong contender for this slate.
Dragon/Steel Mega Aggron: Hands down my favorite of the whole bunch. Great typing (both offensively and defensively), moves to use with it's new found STAB (two stabs are usually better than one) and it still benefits from Filter with weaknesses to fighting and ground. I'll take 50% reduced damage from fire moves any day as opposed to a 25% reduction. In addition, I enjoy seeing different types added to a steel type for a change and not vice versa.
I'm speed creeping max base 70. If you guys think there's a more important tier to creep, I'm sure you can optimize the EVs however you see fit. Outrage/Dragon Claw is power vs. not locking yourself; SD vs. Stone Miss is really just whether or not you really think you need the coverage. I'd go SD over SE because that set lets you absolutely wreck stall and balance. You'll be able to set up all over the meta.
Regular font calcs are attacks against Garchomp; Italicized calcs are for Garchomp's own attacks.
-1 252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Garchomp: 280-332 (66.6 - 79%) -- guaranteed 2HKO 176 Atk Mega Garchomp Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Mega Metagross: 300-354 (99.6 - 117.6%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
(note that you don't really want to switch into Metagross, but that's a 4x SE Tough Claws move you just tanked)
-1 252 Atk Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Garchomp: 105-124 (25 - 29.5%) -- guaranteed 4HKO 0 SpA Mega Garchomp Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 8 SpD Landorus-T: 195-231 (51 - 60.4%) -- 90.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (I calc'd separate sets just to show Chomp's power)
-1 0 Atk Gliscor Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Garchomp: 61-73 (14.5 - 17.3%) -- possible 6HKO 0 SpA Mega Garchomp Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Gliscor: 208-246 (58.7 - 69.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal (PDef Glisc)
176 Atk Mega Garchomp Outrage vs. 244 HP / 0 Def Gliscor: 190-225 (53.9 - 63.9%) -- 89.5% chance to 2HKO after Poison Heal(SpDef Glisc)
-1 252 Atk Mega Lopunny Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Garchomp: 204-240 (48.5 - 57.1%) -- 92.2% chance to 2HKO 176 Atk Mega Garchomp Outrage vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Lopunny: 241-285 (88.9 - 105.1%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
+1 84 Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Garchomp: 130-154 (30.9 - 36.6%) -- 65.1% chance to 3HKO 176 Atk Mega Garchomp Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 0+ Def Mega Scizor: 130-154 (37.9 - 44.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Garchomp: 139-165 (33 - 39.2%) -- 99.9% chance to 3HKO 176 Atk Mega Garchomp Outrage vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Talonflame: 303-357 (102 - 120.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
-1 252+ Atk Life Orb Excadrill Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Garchomp: 142-169 (33.8 - 40.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO 176 Atk Mega Garchomp Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Excadrill: 576-678 (159.5 - 187.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
-1 252+ Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Garchomp: 97-115 (23 - 27.3%) -- 63.6% chance to 4HKO 176 Atk Mega Garchomp Outrage vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Gyarados: 213-252 (64.3 - 76.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
-1 0 Atk Hippowdon Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Garchomp: 70-84 (16.6 - 20%) -- possible 5HKO 0 SpA Mega Garchomp Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Hippowdon: 213-252 (50.7 - 60%) -- 85.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (P. Def)
176 Atk Mega Garchomp Outrage vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Hippowdon: 199-235 (47.3 - 55.9%) -- 23.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (Sp. Def)
-1 252 Atk Tyranitar Crunch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Garchomp: 79-94 (18.8 - 22.3%) -- possible 5HKO 176 Atk Mega Garchomp Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Tyranitar: 258-306 (64 - 75.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
-1 252 Atk Mega Gallade Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Garchomp: 139-165 (33 - 39.2%) -- 99.9% chance to 3HKO 176 Atk Mega Garchomp Outrage vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Gallade: 240-283 (86.6 - 102.1%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
-1 192+ Atk Gyarados Bounce vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Garchomp: 84-100 (20 - 23.8%) -- guaranteed 5HKO -1 176 Atk Mega Garchomp Outrage vs. 88 HP / 4 Def Gyarados: 186-219 (52.6 - 62%) -- 98.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
-1 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Return vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Garchomp: 147-174 (35 - 41.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO 176 Atk Mega Garchomp Outrage vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Pinsir: 196-232 (72.3 - 85.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
So as you can see, M-Garchomp can clearly take a beating from a NUMBER of S through A- ranked mons and retaliate with a major hit. Obviously, it's not going to switch in on all of that and stay in, but the calcs really just show what it CAN take. You can also play with the Defense stat if you want to tank more. I really only speed creeped 70 so that it could reliably KO Bisharp and things like Breloom once rocks are down (I did the calcs for Breloom. Draco Meteor and Outrage both OHKO after rocks, and have a good shot at it without rocks).
OK. I think I've looked these over enough and I have some calcs and whatnot to share involving the mons buffed offensively this time around: Infernape and Raichu. I'll do the defensive ones later tonight.
Infernape + Contrary is pretty much nuts. Get hype for Chandelure. If it only had Close Combat and not Overheat, this would be by far my favorite submission because Infernape gets all of these cool support moves but absolutely no ability to take hits. Overheat and Close Combat allow you to boost with ridiculously powerful STAB attacks, much like Serperior does with Leaf Storm. However, Infernape starts out with 104/104 mixed attacking stats, meaning that these pack quite a punch in and of themselves, unlike Serperior whose Leaf Storm will be less-than-overwhelmingly-powerful the first turn. It becomes pretty clear quickly that you have a plethora of choices when building something with Contrary Infernape. Shades of Gen4, really. With maximum SpA investment and a Life Orb, Infernape can hit Starmie on the switch with Overheat and KO with Vaccuum Wave if Starmie has a little bit of prior damage (SR + 1 layer of spikes). I'm leaning toward a Specially based mixed sweeper set, with minimum Attack investment because Close Combat should only be on the set to remove things that are super-weak to it or Chansey. It gets OHKOs on Defensive T-Tar and Bisharp with a -Atk nature, fwiw. Of course, any set for Infernape would have slashes all over the gotdamn place because the only "rule" for offensive sets would be that you must have Overheat, and support/defensive sets (which I'll get to in a minute) must have Close Combat and Slack Off.
Overheat is really, really strong. It can net easy setup opportunities on nearly any defensive mon. I've done calcs with mons that should wall it (bar chandy and lol Eviolite Lampent), and TL;DR it maims them bar Specially Defensive Vaporeon, which only works if SR isn't up on Vaporeon's side and is on Infernape's . Scarf Heatran looks like a good switch-in to Overheat, but will die to a -Atk Close Combat after Stealth Rock. Choice Scarfers, particularly Victini, are safe as long as they can take an Overheat + Vaccuum Wave. But crucially, Victini can't do it twice. If you forego Grass Knot on Infernape and kajigger the Attack EV's, you can OHKO Talonflame or either Zard, although I find this underwhelming because you can deal with Charizard Y simply by spamming Overheat (the sun boosts its power to absolutely game-breaking levels but let's not go there). It can deal with Charizard X switch-ins with a combination of SR, Overheat on the switch, and Vaccuum Wave with high damage rolls or with any prior damage on CharX. Grass Knot deals with Unaware Quagsire and Unaware Clefable doesn't have a prayer against Overheat.
Defensive sets are also a cool idea, but let's not pretend that Infernape has good bulk. 76/71/71 is not wonderful, and it's really Infernape's support movepool that lets it shine here. As i hinted above, the only moves necessary for a support set are Slack Off and Close Combat; Nape has tons of support moves like Taunt, Will-o-Wisp (100% accurate, ofc), Stealth Rock, Toxic, Encore, Roar, U-Turn, Torment, and Overheat support your team by nuking things. The speed tier is really important because 108 is ridiculously fast for a support/defensive mon (only Lati twins are faster) and allows a fast Sub/Taunt/WillO, all while being immune to burn and able to boost defenses while doing some damage.
I'm going to stop before I get too excited with Infernape, though, as I think Overheat might put it over the top, to say nothing of Intimidate or Defog abuse. That being said, it's still pretty hard to get Infernape in as it's really not bulky at all and has weaknesses to common attacking types and Talonflame.
Tail Glow Raichu looks a bit more interesting to me as an offensive buff as it
has just the speed tier to pull off a sweep. Lightningrod is useful for this as there are a fairly decent number of choice-locked Electric attacks being thrown around. Most of my excitement comes from Raichu's really good movepool, which has cool things like Focus Blast, Grass Knot, Surf, and Signal Beam. This allows you to pick and choose your targets in much the same way as TG Manaphy. Or you could sacrifice coverage (Tbolt + Focus Blast seems like the best two-move coverage to me) to use one of Raichu's kinda-sorta-cool support options, like Encore, Thunder Wave to punish faster switch-ins, or Substitute or Wish or Knock Off. The power is real, though. Being able to 2HKO Chansey after one boost is really cool, and the third slot is great for specific coverage: Grass Knot deals with Quagsire, Hippowdon, Tyranitar (if you're worried about Focus Blast's asscuracy), as well as Swampert, Gastrodon, and Seismitoad. You can run Surf to get rid of Gliscor, Landorus (which one? Pick any one other than Scarf, as well as still hitting Hippo and T-Tar pretty hard. You kind of pick and choose what you're going to hit and frankly any combination of T-Bolt and Focus Blast, Grass Knot, and/or Surf would probably work depending on team composition. I like this buff, though, for a few reasons: it doesn't seem overpowered. Latios and Latias can switch in and KO with Draco Meteor Psyshock after rocks, as can Starmie if it TGs on the switch (risky). Serperior can switch into Raichu boosting or attacking (if unboosted) and OHKO with Leaf Storm after Rocks, nabbing a boost along the way. I don't have too much to say about this that hasn't been said, but I think it's a strong contender.
Infernape
252 SpA Life Orb Infernape Overheat vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Starmie: 135-160 (51.5 - 61%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Infernape Vacuum Wave vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Starmie: 83-99 (31.6 - 37.7%) -- 90.3% chance to 3HKO
0- Atk Life Orb Infernape Close Combat vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 416-491 (64.7 - 76.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0- Atk Life Orb Infernape Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Tyranitar: 426-504 (105.7 - 125%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Infernape Overheat vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Thick Fat Mega Venusaur: 203-242 (55.7 - 66.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
SpA Life Orb Infernape Overheat vs. 232 HP / 24 SpD Alomomola: 211-248 (39.8 - 46.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
2 252 SpA Life Orb Infernape Overheat vs. 232 HP / 24 SpD Alomomola: 421-495 (79.5 - 93.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0- Atk Life Orb Infernape Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 299-354 (92.5 - 109.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Infernape Overheat vs. 200 HP / 76+ SpD Vaporeon: 104-122 (23 - 27%) -- 0.6% chance to 4HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Infernape Grass Knot (60 BP) vs. 200 HP / 76+ SpD Vaporeon: 257-304 (56.9 - 67.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Vaporeon Scald vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Infernape: 248-294 (84.6 - 100.3%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock (guaranteed after 1 LO recoil)
252 SpA Life Orb Infernape Overheat vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Victini: 118-140 (34.6 - 41%) -- 60.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Infernape Grass Knot (80 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Quagsire: 551-650 (139.8 - 164.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Infernape Vacuum Wave vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Victini: 73-86 (21.4 - 25.2%) -- 0.5% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Infernape Overheat vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Charizard Y in Sun: 159-187 (53.5 - 62.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Infernape Overheat vs. 144 HP / 0 SpD Mega Charizard X: 68-79 (20.4 - 23.7%) -- guaranteed 5HKO
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Infernape Vacuum Wave vs. 144 HP / 0 SpD Mega Charizard X: 168-199 (50.4 - 59.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Raichu
Offensive
+3 252 SpA Life Orb Raichu Focus Blast vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 338-398 (52.6 - 61.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+3 252 SpA Life Orb Raichu Grass Knot (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 112 SpD Hippowdon: 749-881 (178.3 - 209.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+3 252 SpA Life Orb Raichu Grass Knot (120 BP) vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 437-515 (108.4 - 127.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Defensive
184 SpA Life Orb Latias Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Raichu: 278-329 (106.5 - 126%) -- guaranteed OHKO
SpA Life Orb Starmie Psyshock vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Raichu: 230-270 (88.1 - 103.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Serperior Leaf Storm vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Raichu: 231-273 (88.5 - 104.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Starmie Psyshock vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Raichu: 230-270 (88.1 - 103.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
Now that stinks. If Raichu's bulk is really that bad, I don't know how many setup opportunities you can grab.
With Lightning Rod, you could technically set up off Electric types like Rotom-W and choiced Magnezone, but nothing else, seeing as you only have one resistance/immunity and seriously crappy bulk.
252 SpA Magnezone Flash Cannon vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Raichu: 78-93 (29.8 - 35.6%) <---- Magnezone 3HKOes after Life Orb recoil.
0 SpA Rotom-W Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Raichu: 148-175 (56.7 - 67%) -- guaranteed 2HKO <---good luck setting up now :I
0 Atk Ferrothorn Gyro Ball (150 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Raichu: 123-146 (47.1 - 55.9%) -- 78.5% chance to 2HKO <--what is this? Ferro getting the 2HKO on Raichu?
If freaking Ferrothorn and Rotom-W can cleanly 2HKO this thing, and Talon/Mega Lopunny/Serperior can safely revenge kill it...
...I'm sorry, I don't see much OU potential for it. Seems like our friend Raichu will go the way of Mega Houndoom.
252 SpA Life Orb Starmie Psyshock vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Raichu: 230-270 (88.1 - 103.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
Now that stinks. If Raichu's bulk is really that bad, I don't know how many setup opportunities you can grab.
With Lightning Rod, you could technically set up off Electric types like Rotom-W and choiced Magnezone, but nothing else, seeing as you only have one resistance/immunity and seriously crappy bulk.
252 SpA Magnezone Flash Cannon vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Raichu: 78-93 (29.8 - 35.6%) <---- Magnezone 3HKOes after Life Orb recoil.
0 SpA Rotom-W Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Raichu: 148-175 (56.7 - 67%) -- guaranteed 2HKO <---good luck setting up now :I
0 Atk Ferrothorn Gyro Ball (150 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Raichu: 123-146 (47.1 - 55.9%) -- 78.5% chance to 2HKO <--what is this? Ferro getting the 2HKO on Raichu?
If freaking Ferrothorn and Rotom-W can cleanly 2HKO this thing, and Talon/Mega Lopunny/Serperior can safely revenge kill it...
...I'm sorry, I don't see much OU potential for it. Seems like our friend Raichu will go the way of Mega Houndoom.
I'd like to ask what exactly is wrong with Mega Houndoom? It's very much an underrated threat in the meta with a lot of late-game cleaning potential, which funnily enough, I see the same thing happening with Raichu.
Sure it can't set up on a ton of shit without getting hurt, but look at your calcs -- two and three hit KOs all around. Like Houndoominite, Sharpedonite etc., if it's in a late-game situation where priority and faster 'mon are down, it can get up a set-up opportunity and proceed to clean. Tail Glow immediately makes it very threatening, and with a very good speed tier I fail to see what makes it particularly bad. Admittedly it might not be as impressive as some of the others on this slate, but it's still a very good and fun buff. Hell, I can't remember if we've had any late-game cleaners on the theorymon project recently - correct me if I'm wrong on this - so seeing something with that role is really fun. This honestly might get my vote.
