Project The OU Underdog Project (Week 17: Gogoat)

[pika pal]

Virizion also has some great recovery in Giga Drain and Synthesis over Breloom; which could be good for a CM set. I do kind of like the idea of CroZion in concept; actually - Suicune and the like need to dedicate three moveslots to Rest, Sleep Talk and an attacking option - Virizion gets Giga Drain which combines all three of those, leaving two slots free. It's also pretty damn fast for this sort of thing; I dunno. It could work

While I think that could work in practice, there are a few problems I foresee with it.

- Crocune also runs Resttalk for status immunity as well, which Virizion only has Substitute as an option for otherwise.
- Crocune's overall bulk is high on the Physical side. Even fully invested, Virizion's physical bulk is sub-par, which coupled with its typing leaves it rather easily revenged by Physical attackers like Zard-X, Mega Metagross, or the Latis with Psyshock (though again, Substitute could buffer this).
- Giga Drain is not nearly as spammable as Scald, with 4x resists being much more common in OU and without a secondary benefit like Burns to wear out those tanking the attack itself. On the bright side, a lack of immunities is a plus.

I think Virizion could pull off something like this if it had Cobalion's defensive spread instead (ergo high natural Physical defense, CM offsetting Special Defense), but not sure how well CroZion would work in OU.

 

[SparksBlade]

what interests me is that it resists edgequake better than breloom cos of bulk, will edit in more later

k some sets have been posted, but i like what i cooked up

Virizion @ Lum Berry / Life Orb
Ability: Justified
EVs: 56 HP / 252 Atk / 200 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Close Combat
- Leaf Blade
- X-Scissor

EVs outspeed lando, max attack, rest hp cos clutch bulk. I like X-Scissor over Stone Edge cos it completely bops on celebi, mew, latis, etc. LO 2hko's lando-i with leaf blade, while lum is for random status that you might come across. Talonflame can be ko'd on the switchin by CC if rocks are up anyways, so ston edge isn't much of a ncessity(ik there are others but talon is a target). Pika pal did say most of the relevant stuff so i got nothing else to add.

 

[Albacore]

This week's Pokemon is Mega Abomasnow!

MAbomasnow gets some pretty bad rep for having a horrendous defensive typing, which is a huge problem when paired up with its terrible speed.It also has a hard time breaking past Steel types which resist both of its STABs However, it still finds a lot of success in RU and is even quite good in UU. A perfectly accurate Blizzard can be very threatening to switch into, especially given that many Ice resists in OU are bulky Water types which fear its secondary STAB. Abomasnow's terrible speed is mitigated by its access to Ice Shard. Abomasnow is also able to go mixed, with access to physical moves like Wood Hammer and Earthquake and special moves like Giga Drain and Focus Blast. This enables it to act as a decent wallbreaker, especially given its access to Swords Dance enabling it too boost its attack. So, is Abomasnow's offensive prowess enough to make up for its lack of defensive capabilities?

 

[Slowking88]

Just like Mega Camerupt, mega Abomasnow is a horror to switch into, but too slow to actually be threatening. Even though it has good 90/105/105 bulk, it has a whopping 7 weaknesses.

Aboma's best bet is probably trick room, but that is a gimmicky playstyle to begin with. With 131 offenses however it is a massive threat when firing of an attack.

 

[Teeny Victory]

One thing I could possibly see M-Aboma pulling off is an SD set. Its the only Ice type that learns SD apart from weavile,but weavile doesnt really have the bulk to be setting up SD's and would rather have pursuit/low kick/poison jab in the last slot, but despite M-Abomas pitiful Defensive typing, its terrifiv offensive typing could allow it to pull of the SD Set to some success

Abomasnow-Mega @ Abomasite
Ability: Snow Warning
EVs: 240 HP / 252 Atk / 16 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Ice Shard
- Swords Dance
- Wood Hammer
- Earthquake

Set is pretty simple, SD for setting up, ice shard for STAB priority, wood hammer for a STAB move that hits like a truck and allows it to get past bulky water types, and EQ in the last to bop heatran on the switch as well as get past Steel types. Speed is to speed creep base 30's such as slowbro and slowking, as well as outspeed 0 speed TTar before mega, max attack with an adamant nature and rest in bulk to maximise the power and longetivity of the set.

now, the reason I think this set could be effective is because of just how good ice-typed priority is in OU, and couple that wit a very powerful STAB move to get past bulky waters and EQ for steel and fire types, and you have a very solid sweeper.

Here are some cool calcs to show you stuff it forces out/breaks through:

Aboma Calcs

252+ Atk Mega Abomasnow Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Landorus: 316-376 (99 - 117.8%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Mega Abomasnow Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Bisharp: 244-288 (89.7 - 105.8%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Mega Abomasnow Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 464-548 (120.5 - 142.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Mega Abomasnow Wood Hammer vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Keldeo: 476-564 (147.3 - 174.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Mega Abomasnow Wood Hammer vs. 252 HP / 144+ Def Hippowdon: 306-360 (72.8 - 85.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Mega Abomasnow Wood Hammer vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Slowbro: 204-242 (51.7 - 61.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after hail damage
252+ Atk Mega Abomasnow Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Charizard X: 222-262 (74.7 - 88.2%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Mega Abomasnow Wood Hammer vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 288-340 (44.8 - 52.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and hail damage
252+ Atk Mega Abomasnow Wood Hammer vs. 252 HP / 160 Def Clefable: 232-274 (58.8 - 69.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Mega Abomasnow Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Metagross: 170-202 (56.4 - 67.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and hail damage
+2 252+ Atk Mega Abomasnow Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gengar: 220-259 (84.9 - 100%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Mega Abomasnow Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Breloom: 176-210 (67.4 - 80.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and hail damage

Admittedly these calcs aren't really that impressive, as most of them are SE hits and stuff, but it shows you how hard M-Aboma can be for Balanced teams to deal with thatnks to Abomas coverage taking out some of there most crucial mons, as well as being really hard for a weakened offensive team to handle at +2 thanks to the great SE coverage of ice shard and its decent bulk.

So while M-Aboma is easy to take advantage off thanks to its low speed, common weaknesses and Hazards vulnerability, it can pull of a niche in an SD sweeper with a very unique offensive typing which allows it to plough past common cores and leave reasonable holes in standard balances and offensive teams.

 

[Albacore]

This week's Pokemon is Snorlax!

Snorlax's main selling point is its incredible special bulk, giving it the ability to withstand very powerful special attacks. It also has decent physical bulk as well as access to decent coverage, Crunch, Earthquake and Fire Punch being able to hit various Normal resists very hard. It also has access to Pursuit, enabling it to trap Gengar to some extent, and has access to 2 decent abilities, one preventing it from being poisoned, and the other enabling it to take halved damage from Fire and Ice moves, particularly from Charizard Y. Unfortunately, its Normal typing only gives it an immunity to Ghost and no other resistances to exploit, and while Return isn't resisted by many types, Steel types are still very popular in OU and can be problematic for it (that being said, it can easily carry the necessary coverage to handle them). It also lacks reliable recovery and needs to un Rest in order to properly wall other Pokemon. Although it is outdone defensively by Chansey and offensively by Diggersby, the combination of its defensive and offensive capabilities may be able to give it an advantage over either of these Pokemon.

 

[AM]

If you're gonna use this at all, pursuit trap something or use it as your Landorus check with an Ice Punch variant use Assault Vest. I use Snorlax on some teams for shits and giggles and AV is one of the better variants when using this with Thick Fat. I wouldn't really say Steel types are problematic as Heatran loses to EQ, Ferro loses to Fire Punch, Emp loses to EQ, and Counter is hilarious in cleaning out stuff like M-Metagross. It really loses to certain set up steels like offensive M-Scizor mostly. I'll pull up an EV spread later for AV.

Edit: Oh yeah and Heavy Slam screws over stuff like M-Altaria and fairies.

Edit 2:
Snorlax @ Assault Vest
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 248 HP / 156 Atk / 100 SpD / 4 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Filler
- Filler
- Filler
- Pursuit

Does stuff like this.

252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 100 SpD Assault Vest Thick Fat Snorlax in Sun: 88-105 (16.8 - 20%) -- possible 5HKO after Stealth Rock

252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 100 SpD Assault Vest Snorlax: 187-221 (35.7 - 42.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock

+2 252+ SpA Volcarona Bug Buzz vs. 248 HP / 100 SpD Assault Vest Snorlax: 186-220 (35.5 - 42%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock

252+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 248 HP / 100 SpD Assault Vest Snorlax: 142-168 (27.1 - 32.1%) -- 60.1% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock

You get 2HKO by Landorus Focus Blast but attack investment is designed for this since spread is team specific

152+ Atk Snorlax Ice Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Landorus: 324-384 (101.5 - 120.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

 

[toshimelonhead]

THE FAT LADY (Snorlax) (F) @ Custap Berry
Ability: Thick Fat
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Body Slam
- Earthquake
- Crunch
- Self-Destruct

This is a blast to the past Snorlax set I used in the World Cup (DPP) against Malekith. I am sure there are better moves to try out after 2 generations, but the premise is similar: take hits and surprise with a Custap Explosion to turn momentum back in your favor. Certainly fun to try out for lolz if anything.

Something like:

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen4ou-13121

THE FAT LADY (Snorlax) ate its Custap Berry!
Custap Berry activated.
THE FAT LADY (Snorlax) used Self-Destruct!
It's not very effective... The opposing Putera lost 55.1% of its health!
The opposing Putera (Aerodactyl) fainted!
THE FAT LADY (Snorlax) fainted!

 

[NinetyNineNo]

252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 100 SpD Assault Vest Thick Fat Snorlax in Sun: 88-105 (16.8 - 20%) -- possible 5HKO after Stealth Rock

Holy shit. Thick Fat, I know, but still, that's great.

 

[Teeny Victory]

I've actually been messing around with good ol' CurseLax on the ladder, and was pleasantly surprised with my results. It requires a heap of team support, but it checks a huge amount of stuff with its excellent special bulk, and can be hard to stop once it gets going once its checks + counters are removed, which my team focused on executing.

Heres the set:

Snorlax @ Leftovers
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 204 HP / 88 Def / 216 SpD
Careful Nature
- Return
- Curse
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

The HP is to reach the highest possible leftovers number, the SpD and the positive nature to reach the highest possible jump point, and the rest is put in Defense to take Attacks such as M-Garde/Latis Psychock and Kyu-B's Fusion bolt easier.

I run return over body slam because Snorlax is legitimately so slow that it is outsped even after the Paras by most offensive mons, and curse drops your speed anyway. Rest, Sleep Talk and Curs are used to allow for quick and easy boosting and a source of semi-reliable recovery.

As for team-mates, I immediately recognised its weakness to Fighting types and ghost types, So I added a scarf T-Tar to eliminate Ghost types (mainly gengar but I wanted to be safe and TTar is really good anyway so), Then I added a specs Gothitelle to Switch into the Fighting types that trouble 'Lax, as well as remove stuff like Taunt heatran (with HP ground), Whirlwind Skarmory (with T-Bolt), and hippo, as well as being a cool asset for my team. After this I noticed an incredible weakness to M-Sableye, and this really needed to be plugged because of its recent resurge in usage on playstyles such as balance and even HO (yes I'm serious, Mega Sableye HO is incredibly Hard to break). Because of this I added a special attacking mega Altaria with heal bell, as it destroyed Sableye, Lured in Ferrothorn, Checked/Countered most fighting types, and could wake Snorlax up quickly with heal bell. Altaria also appreciated The trapping support to remove its common checks and counters such as heatran talonflame, chasey etc. I was weak to fairys and needed rocks now, So I added an offensive air baloon heatran with taunt and toxic. For my last slot I just wanted something fast that could check Keldeo and Lando-I, so I added a CM Latios to provide a secondary win condition.
Here is my team for those who are interested

The Team

Snorlax @ Leftovers
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 204 HP / 88 Def / 216 SpD
Careful Nature
- Return
- Curse
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

Tyranitar @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Pursuit
- Crunch
- Stone Edge
- Superpower

Gothitelle @ Choice Specs
Ability: Shadow Tag
EVs: 48 HP / 252 SpA / 208 Spe
Modest Nature
- Psyshock
- Hidden Power [Ground]
- Trick
- Thunderbolt

Altaria @ Altarianite
Ability: Cloud Nine
EVs: 76 HP / 252 SpA / 180 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hyper Voice
- Fire Blast
- Heal Bell
- Roost

Heatran @ Air Balloon
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Flamethrower
- Taunt
- Toxic
- Stealth Rock

Latios (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 29 HP
- Draco Meteor
- Calm Mind
- Roost
- Psyshock

Now, as I have shown, Snorlax immediately requires two trappers before it can even think about sweeping, so it obviously requires a fair bit of team support, but I kid you not, if its checks and counters have been removed, it is nearly impossible to stop this thing once it starts boosting unless you get lucky with crits and paras and stuff, so it is a menace that, although it requires an incredible amount of team support, is actually surprisingly easy to sweep with.

 

[GnralLao]

A couple of weeks ago, I nominated in the UU's Next Best Thing thread this Snorlax below (which looks quite similar to toshimelonhead's):

Snorlax @ Custap Berry
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 Atk / 152 Def / 104 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Counter
- Self-Destruct
- Body Slam
- Earthquake / Crunch

Of course, the EVs were adapted for the UU environment (specifically made to avoid being 2HKOed by Jolly M-Aerodactyl), so the spread can be changed to avoid OHKOs/2HKOs from other specific OU mons. However, this doesn't change the way this set is played: "lure in physical attackers, KO them with Counter (their attacks will hopefully bring Snorlax to the Custap range), then self-destructing on the next mon as the Custap Berry activates". Body Slam is to induce paralysis and the last moveslot is to deal with specially based mons which resist Snorlax's STABs.

So, what do you guys think? Does it stand a chance in OU? Could Gluttony be useful in any set (in this set's case, using a Custap Self-Destruct at mid health could be hilariously trollish!) to get a surprise KO and gain momentum?

 

[Byrn Dragonstone]

I have tried CurseLax in the past, biggest difference was that I used crunch over sleeptalk. Few things are able to kill snorlax while he is sleeping anyways, and the feeling of being able to kill ghosts without having to worry is amazing.

The other set that I haven't seen mentioned here that I have tried and works pretty well is BandLax. A set like this works fairly well, without the massive team support:
Snorlax @ Choice Band
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Return
- Earthquake
- Fire Punch/Ice Punch
- Pursuit/Gunk Shot/Whatever your team needs

It works well busting through things, and is really good at trapping stuff. Return is obvious STAB, and earthquake gives good coverage with it. The choice in punch is personal, Fire Punch kills Ferrothorn and Scizor, Ice Punch kills Gliscor and any Landorus. The last slot can be used for the other punch, or killing specifics. Gunk Shot kills all those fairy types, while pursuit kills any ghost or psychic. For a tank that hits like a truck it works really well.

Some calcs:

Hide

252+ Atk Choice Band Snorlax Fire Punch vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Ferrothorn: 320-380 (90.9 - 107.9%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Snorlax Fire Punch vs. 248 HP / 0+ Def Mega Scizor: 328-388 (95.6 - 113.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Snorlax Return vs. 64 HP / 0 Def Altaria: 267-315 (86.9 - 102.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Snorlax Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Altaria: 189-223 (53.3 - 62.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Snorlax Return vs. 72 HP / 0 Def Latias: 267-315 (83.6 - 98.7%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Snorlax Return vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 322-381 (50.1 - 59.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Snorlax Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Tyranitar: 224-264 (65.6 - 77.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Snorlax Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Mega Metagross: 250-296 (83 - 98.3%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Snorlax Return vs. 88 HP / 4 Def Azumarill: 292-345 (80.4 - 95%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Snorlax Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 56+ Def Gliscor: 344-408 (97.1 - 115.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Snorlax Ice Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Landorus: 520-616 (163 - 193.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Snorlax Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Landorus-T: 248-296 (64.9 - 77.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Snorlax Return vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Keldeo: 267-315 (82.6 - 97.5%) -- 25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Snorlax Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 214-253 (54.3 - 64.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

 

[Albacore]

This week, I've decided to extend the amount of Pokemon which can be discussed on this thread by adding D-ranked Pokemon. That way, people are more likely to have used these Pokemon and be able to discuss them.

So, this week's Pokemon is Salamence!

Salamence is one of the best Pokemon in UU. However, it only has limited use in OU, it suffers competition as a DDer by multiple Megas and especially Dragonite, as a defogger by Latios, and as a Scarfer by Garchomp and Landorus-T. However, it does have a combination of qualities which can make it worth running : compared to Latios, it has Fire Blast and Earthqauke to threaten common Stealth Rock setters, compared to Garchomp, it has a Ground immunity, compared to Landorus-T, it has a Water resistance, and compared to Dragonite, it has more speed which is a pretty significant advantage. Are these advantages enough to justify it use?

 

[DarkNostalgia]

Salamence @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 180 Def / 80 Spe
Timid / Jolly Nature
- Defog
- Fire Blast
- Hydro Pump / Earthquake
- Roost

Salamence is not really great lol. It's severely outclassed as a Dragon Dancer by Altaria, Dragonite and Charizard, MixMence isn't that great considering Altaria and Kyurem-B exists. Tbh, a defensive Defog set is its only viable set. With Intimidate, it has pseudo physical bulk, and makes for a good defogger. Whilst it definitely can't beat common Stealth Rock users such as Mamoswine, Garchomp and Clefable, its access to Roost and Intimidate means it stays for quite a while.
Pretty straightforward set - Defog is great support, Fire Blast deals with Ferrothorn, Skarmory and Scizor, Roost for longevity. The choice between Hydro Pump + Earthquake boils down to practicality tbh, Hydro Pump deals with Ground-/Fire-type Pokemon such as Hippowdon, Landorus-T, Gliscor, Talonflame, while Earthquake OHKOes specially defensive Heatran and 2HKOes Tyranitar.
I know it's not the best set, but it's still a decent one, and imo it carves itself a decent niche in today's metagame.

 

[Creator of Chaos]

Good old salamance. I remember breeding a HP ice Roserade back in gen 4 just to lure it out and OHKO the bugger at convention and regional tournaments because every 2nd player used one. Luring it got me so many wins lol but I could never win grand finals ahh memories

Anyway Salamance is far from what he was back in Gen 4 and is serverly outclassed by several pokemon. Sure he still has alot of power and can put in work but why use him over Altaria, Charizard X or Gyarados. Why Use a mix set (The one that got him banned in Gen 4) when Kyurem does it better. He is a long way from glory. That said 1 thing I feel that he still has going for him is choice sets. While there is competion for Latis and Chomp in the role Intimidate and moxie give him enough to set him apart.

Salamence @ Choice Band/Choice Scarf
Ability: Intimidate/Moxie
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty/Niave Nature
- Outrage
- Earthquake
- Fire Blast/Stone Edge/Aerial Ace
- Tailwind/Defog

Set is simple Max Atk/Max speed and then your choice of Scarf or band based on team needs. Band Lets him wallbreak really well and a good 100base speed is enough to kill most of the sets intended targets while scarfs turns the same spread into a revenge killer. While Intimidate is prefered as it lets himswitch into threats easier Moxie is viable for lategame cleaing. Outrage is Stab and hits like a truck once fairies are gone while Earthquake is for steels like heatran. It then comes down to the choice of fireblast for ferro/Skarm, Stone edge for bulky Fires and Gyrardos or Aireal ace for 2nd stab. Finally your choice of utility move incase you know your gonna die. Defog removes hazards while tailwind can turn another powerhouse into a terrifying sweeper.

While it is a far cry from his days as a powerhouse he is still useful as 2 good abilities give him reason to be used and out of all his poosible sets I think Choice with some utility is his most viable set. Sorry if its not much lol

 

[bludz]

If it weren't for Clefable and Mega Altaria being everywhere this thing would still be good. I mean the original reason it was better than Dragonite in DPP was better speed which is pretty big after a DD. I think the classic LO DD / Outrage / EQ / Fire Blast set can still be effective granted you are able to eliminate fairies, especially now that you can get Moxie boosts. Maybe that's just me for being swept by it on a team where I didn't have priority or Clefable <.<

But yeah honestly it's a little sad that it's so bad in OU now just because it is actually fairly versatile, but is outclassed by other things in most roles it can play and hurt heavily by the speed creep + fairies.

 

[Celticpride]

#freeMegaSalamence

But really, Salamence is an interesting lure if nothing else. Its special attack is pretty high for a DDer and it also has Intimidate, and it can get some mileage out of that. Some of those VGC-esque special Scarf sets could have some mileage, especially if you throw an Outrage in there to really bluff a physical set and lure and damage Landorus-T for a teammate (Sala gets Hydro Pump iirc). The real issue is a lure like that isn't worth a teamslot on like 99.9% of current OU teams. Other Dragons/DDers just have more advantages at this point.

 

[Invok3r]

If it weren't for Clefable and Mega Altaria being everywhere this thing would still be good. I mean the original reason it was better than Dragonite in DPP was better speed which is pretty big after a DD. I think the classic LO DD / Outrage / EQ / Fire Blast set can still be effective granted you are able to eliminate fairies, especially now that you can get Moxie boosts. Maybe that's just me for being swept by it on a team where I didn't have priority or Clefable <.<

But yeah honestly it's a little sad that it's so bad in OU now just because it is actually fairly versatile, but is outclassed by other things in most roles it can play and hurt heavily by the speed creep + fairies.

Salamence can break thru clefable and altaria with a fairly decent dd petaya et.

Salamence @ Petaya Berry
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Natural Gift
- Dragon Dance
- Dragon Rush / Dragon Claw / Outrage
- Earthquake

Calcs

+1 252+ Atk Petaya Berry Salamence Natural Gift (100 BP Poison) vs. 240 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 444-524 (110.7 - 130.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+1 252+ Atk Petaya Berry Salamence Natural Gift (100 BP Poison) vs. 252 HP / 160 Def Clefable: 392-462 (99.4 - 117.2%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO

hehe rekt scrubs

 

[HappyHoopa05]

Subs Roost
------------------------------------------
Salamence @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 156 Atk / 104 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Roost
- Substitute
- Outrage / Dragon Claw
- Earthquake / Fire Blast
------------------------------------------
This set it's fairly viable becuse guaranteed you a secondary option from Late-Game clearn. Also Mence with bulky it's a nice checker for some threats. 248 HP Maximizes the Bulky in boths defenses, 104 Spe
Jolly Guaranteed Outspeed in Max 81 Speed, Like Gyarados, Dragonite, and others, and the rest is on the attack. The Subsroost Guaranteed 1-3 Free turns to Damage some Pokemons (Or even kill). But, lol, Mence isn't so mutch viable in this metagame, But can be Usefull in bulky offenses.

 

[Flygonial]

Salamence @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 180 Def / 80 Spe
Timid / Jolly Nature
- Defog
- Fire Blast
- Hydro Pump / Earthquake
- Roost

Salamence is not really great lol. It's severely outclassed as a Dragon Dancer by Altaria, Dragonite and Charizard, MixMence isn't that great considering Altaria and Kyurem-B exists. Tbh, a defensive Defog set is its only viable set. With Intimidate, it has pseudo physical bulk, and makes for a good defogger. Whilst it definitely can't beat common Stealth Rock users such as Mamoswine, Garchomp and Clefable, its access to Roost and Intimidate means it stays for quite a while.
Pretty straightforward set - Defog is great support, Fire Blast deals with Ferrothorn, Skarmory and Scizor, Roost for longevity. The choice between Hydro Pump + Earthquake boils down to practicality tbh, Hydro Pump deals with Ground-/Fire-type Pokemon such as Hippowdon, Landorus-T, Gliscor, Talonflame, while Earthquake OHKOes specially defensive Heatran and 2HKOes Tyranitar.
I know it's not the best set, but it's still a decent one, and imo it carves itself a decent niche in today's metagame.

I think that wish might be worth a mention?

 

[Byrn Dragonstone]

I keep hearing that Salamence is completely outclassed in OU, but I messed around with him a lot, and I have to say he wrecks teams pretty hard.

I guess the best way to look at Salamence is to compare him to his competition. So who is his main competition? Charizard, Altaria, and Dragonite are the ones that I hear the most so I am just going to go with those ones and compare him across the board. For sake of relevance I am just going to look at Charizard X, not Charizard Y, who has a completely different role.

Comparing Charizard to Salamence is interesting. Looking at the Stats they both have very similiar layouts, both sporting solid mixed attacking stats and a speed of 100. Mixed wise Charizard wins out with 130/130 while Salamence sports 135/110. Charizard also wins in the STAB coverage, Fire/Dragon hitting most of the Meta for neutral (Heatran is the only resist I think?). Salamence has better bulk when Intimidate is factored in and also has a much better movepool, allowing it to hit anything for Super Effective damage with the correct move, outside of Sableye I believe. Obviously 4MSS comes into effect here, but that is why there are 6 pokemon and not just 1 on a team. Salamence also hit harder physically, and if you are running Moxie can run through teams with little to no set-up. Another big selling point for Salamence is that it doesn't take up a Mega Slot, meaning you can run it alongside some of the biggest threats in the tier, Mega-Metagross, Lopunny, Diancie, heck even Charizard. Which brings up another point to remember, though both Charizard-X and Salamence take the same from SR, Charizard's base form takes 50%, and since it is a mega it has to switch at some point to change, meaning unless you want to try sweeping at half health you really need to run roost. Charizard also takes damage from spikes, while Salamence does not.

So Pro's to using Salamence over Charizard:
- better bulk with intimidate
- wider movepool
- less entry hazard damage
- no Mega slot used
- Higher damage output with Moxie
- Ability to hold Items (Choice, Life Orb, Leftovers, Assualt Vest, ect...)

Con's to using Salamence over Charizard:
- STAB's leave something to be desired
- Not as good mixed attacking stats (But really who uses special Charizard-X?)
- Less attack without Moxie, less bulk without Intimidate

So what about Altaria? To be completely honest I have not seen a good Altaria player. It normally dies to Venusaur/Metagross/Kyurem, and I have never had problems with it. But for the sake of trying to be complete I will compare them here. Altaria has much better bulk going for it. 75/110/105 is great. Altaria also has better Typing, Fairy/Dragon being one of the best type combinations in the game. Altaria also has a great ability, whether it is better then Salamence's really depends on the team, but it is a good one nonetheless. Altaria also has an amazing movepool. Salamence on the other hand hits much harder then Altaria. Salamence is also faster then Altaria, and sports a movepool that is just as deep. Salamence is also able to use items, which can make it a much more explosive mon then Altaria. It also doesn't take up a Mega slot, so again lots of options for teammates.

So Pro's of Salamence VS Altaria:
- Ability to hold Items (Choice, Life Orb, Leftovers, Assualt Vest, ect...)
- Higher damage output
- Better speed
- No Mega Slot

Con's
- Less bulk
- Worse typing

So yeah, these seem like they have completely different roles on teams, not really sure why they are compared all of the time.... If someone could post more on this that would be awesome.

And onto Dragonite.

Dragonite is probably Salamence's biggest rival. Same typing, similar movepool, similar attacking stats, Dragonite and Salamence seem like they are brothers. Salamence's biggest draw over Dragonite is more power, and greater speed while Dragonite sports more bulk. These guys really fill different roles on teams, where Dragonite is a bulky tank, Salamence is a fast cleaner. This was probably the biggest debate back in Gen V over who was better, but I feel like they are different enough that it really doesn't matter. Not much really to add to that.

So in the end the Pro's of using Salamence:
- No Mega slot used
- Fast
- Wide movepool allows a multitude of sets
- Hits really hard

Con's to using Salamence:
- Secondary STAB sucks (Nothing even decent in that awesome movepool)
- Not as bulky

So in the end I don't really get the comparisons of these mon's. Charizard is the one that Salamence contends with the most, and I already pointed out what would make you use him over Charizard. Overall I think people just see a DD dragon and fail to look at the whole package, there is a reason Salamence was Uber for a while. Granted this is my opinion, and others are welcome to disagree but I think Salamence is a very versatile mon, with a lot going for it.

 

[astroshagger]

I like this:

Salamence @ Life Orb
Moxie, Jolly
252 Atk/ 252 Spe / 4 Def
IV's: 29 HP

~DD
~Outrage/DClaw
~Earthquake
~Iron Tail

Salemence doesn't really have that much trouble breaking through fairies with Iron Tail. All this thing needs is one kill to go to town becasue Moxie just ramps it up. I like pairing this set with Mag to handle Ferro/Skarm, really the only two things that completely wall this set.

 

[Kurona]

I keep hearing that Salamence is completely outclassed in OU, but I messed around with him a lot, and I have to say he wrecks teams pretty hard.

I guess the best way to look at Salamence is to compare him to his competition. So who is his main competition? Charizard, Altaria, and Dragonite are the ones that I hear the most so I am just going to go with those ones and compare him across the board. For sake of relevance I am just going to look at Charizard X, not Charizard Y, who has a completely different role.

Comparing Charizard to Salamence is interesting. Looking at the Stats they both have very similiar layouts, both sporting solid mixed attacking stats and a speed of 100. Mixed wise Charizard wins out with 130/130 while Salamence sports 135/110. Charizard also wins in the STAB coverage, Fire/Dragon hitting most of the Meta for neutral (Heatran is the only resist I think?). Salamence has better bulk when Intimidate is factored in and also has a much better movepool, allowing it to hit anything for Super Effective damage with the correct move, outside of Sableye I believe. Obviously 4MSS comes into effect here, but that is why there are 6 pokemon and not just 1 on a team. Salamence also hit harder physically, and if you are running Moxie can run through teams with little to no set-up. Another big selling point for Salamence is that it doesn't take up a Mega Slot, meaning you can run it alongside some of the biggest threats in the tier, Mega-Metagross, Lopunny, Diancie, heck even Charizard. Which brings up another point to remember, though both Charizard-X and Salamence take the same from SR, Charizard's base form takes 50%, and since it is a mega it has to switch at some point to change, meaning unless you want to try sweeping at half health you really need to run roost. Charizard also takes damage from spikes, while Salamence does not.

So Pro's to using Salamence over Charizard:
- better bulk with intimidate
- wider movepool
- less entry hazard damage
- no Mega slot used
- Higher damage output with Moxie
- Ability to hold Items (Choice, Life Orb, Leftovers, Assualt Vest, ect...)

Con's to using Salamence over Charizard:
- STAB's leave something to be desired
- Not as good mixed attacking stats (But really who uses special Charizard-X?)
- Less attack without Moxie, less bulk without Intimidate

Uh, sorry but I think you're being really biased here just to make Salamence look good. You give the hyperbole that Salamence has a much higher damage output with Moxie, but that actually requires it to get a kill in first giving it limited opportunities; meanwhile, Charx has fantastic immediate power from the get-go with Tough Claws which you neglected to mention. You're also really glossing over the fact that Dragon + Fire is ridiculously good physical STAB coverage; the only things it doesn't really hit well being Azu, Alt, Tran and base Diancie (diancite is frail af and dies to blitz). As for items, in the context of a d-dancer choice items and av are kind of irrelevant; the only items you'd run would be life orb, lefties and... maybe dragon fang? I mean the way you've written everything out it seems to make sense, but in practise mence really won't perform as well as a charx sub as you've written; especially the point about entry hazard damage - they both rely on defog support to sweep.
I mean I get there's reasons to use Mence over Charx as already highlighted in the thread but I don't think this is the right way to sell it as this seems really biased and glosses over very key important factors such as the lower support Charx needs - literally just a defogger/spinner and an alt/azu/tran check - as well as some of it's bigger pros as I've already stated. Salamence's loss of a good Flying STAB (lol aerial ace and fly) also makes it incredibly hard to sweep/late-game clean with, as OU's relatively recent influx of steels and fairies makes what is basically mono-dragon STAB difficult to use. If you wanna say why it works better as a dragon dancer tbh I'd be focusing more on it's special movepool which is much more of a pro than anything else mentioned - you did give a solid explanation on intimidate as a big pro tho props for that; it's p nice as a bulkier ddancer
Sorry if I've misinterpreted things here but the post does seem kinda biased in mence's favour which ultimately won't help it's case much


also in your mence vs dragonite comparison neither take up a mega slot and both have no secondary stab; and let's not act like nite isn't versatile -- you also failed to mention e-speed, a massive selling point of nite

 

[Slowking88]

When looking at Salamence and it's competition, you'll notice that all dragons and ddancers have notable niches over Mence. Whether it's typing (MAlt), power (MzardX) or an easy time setting up (Dragonite).

To find Mence's niche you must therefore look at what it can do that his rivals can't, which is either a scarf or a life orb set.

Of those two I prefer the scarf set, which looks like this:
Salamence @ choice scarf
Jolly Nature
Moxie
252 Atk/4 SpD/252 Spe
-Outrage
-Earthquake
-Dragon Claw
-Iron Tail

Kill fairies and steels with teammates or with coverage and sweep late game by spamming Dragon Claw or Outrage. Once this gets going it's very difficult to stop if there are no fairies left.

 

[Martin]

TBH, you should only be running the Bulky Defog set on Mence. Otherwise it is just horrendously outclassed by a large number of other Pokémon. It just utilises Intimidate+good special/mixed movepool+Roost+good natural bulk to fill some kind of niche over anything, being the best defogger that has Intimidate lol jk Defog Masqueraine OP