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Gen 5 The OU Viability Ranking thread

Discussion in 'Ruins of Alph' started by PK Gaming, Oct 17, 2012.

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  1. SmashBrosBrawl

    SmashBrosBrawl

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    I personally disagree with tangrowth for anything more than C based on its standard set. Its typing is particullary bad for a physical wall since its neutral to dragon, fighting, rock and weak to bug. It also lacks anyway to support the team bar the unreliable sleep powder. I simply dont see any reason to use it over other physical walls with superior typings and movepool like skarmory or hippowdon. However the offensive clorophyl set is something i would personally like to be more looked at as it can use its combination of bulk and power to become a powerful mixed tank. Any thoughts?
  2. Joeyboy

    Joeyboy Check out my Youtube channel! JoeyboyGames!
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    http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/the-pdc-show.3486146/ But Latias is a star of the PDC show.. I get that this team was in a Landorus-I metagame so Latias had more utility then but it can't go from a star to outclassed trash because of the loss of one 'mon surely.

    (To FluffyStantler) In my opinion I don't get how you can say Latias is potentially D ranked material.... Thats you saying its worse than Pokemon like Durant and in the same league as Pokemon like Accelgor... Latias is one of the most commonly used Pokemon in top end play, whether it be tournaments or top end of the ladder. I don't know, I never thought I'd have to defend Latias' viability in this meta :/ So I'll let PDC do it for me.

    In PDC's words, "Latias really is the glue that holds this team together thanks to her speed, set of resistances, and beautiful attacking power which is so unexpected." This is exactly why so many players run Latias on their teams, couldn't have said it better myself.
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2013
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  3. Agent Gibbs

    Agent Gibbs

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    Lol.

    Well, first off, Hydreigon fails to outspeed max speed Volcarona, Salamence, Terrakion, Garchomp, Thundurus-T, and Keldeo. However, I really think you're missing the point of offensive Latias. It's meant to give an offensive edge while also having a sizable amount of bulk for keeping things like Keldeo in check.

    Dragonite comes with an unwanted Rock weakness (read: Stealth Rock), has no resistance to Electric moves like Latias, has a double weakness to Ice (even offensive Latias can take weaker Ice attacks like Scarf Keldeo's HP Ice very well thanks to its 2x Ice weakness), and its a good bit less specially bulky unless Multiscale is intact. Plus, running defensive Dragonite runs the opportunity cost of giving up offensive Dragonite sets, which are far better in general.

    Right, because Jirachi has the important Water, Fire, Fighting, and Electric resistances, Dragon STAB, and base 110 speed, right?

    Read the above response about other offensive Pokemon with similar typing. Reuniclus and Alakazam fill far different roles than offensive Latias. Latios is more comparable, but the extra bulk of Latias comes in handy plenty of times. For instance, offensive Latias can survive the 2HKO from Specs Keldeo's Hydro Pump or Scarf Keldeo's Hydro Pump in rain ~86% of the time after Stealth Rock, while Latios is always 2HKO'd. That extra bulk makes the difference.

    It's hard to take you seriously with comments like this. 80/90/130 is some of the best bulk of any Pokemon in OU, lol.

    Tornadus-T was banned with a base 110 SpA stat. 110 is actually a pretty decent number. It's not phenomenal by any means, but it's not pathetic either.
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  4. FluffyStantler

    FluffyStantler Banned deucer.

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  5. Yuttt

    Yuttt

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    I think latias' main use is to decently check most rain and sun teams. It has some nice resistances to Fire, Grass, Water, and Electric, as well as good special bulk and a great speed tier. Even if a Specs Keldeo can 2HKO it, it can outspeed and either recover, or attack it. The subCM set is nice, as it can set up on many things, like Heatran, and has great speed for a calm minder. The dragon type is nice offensively, however, it's typing brings some unfortunate weaknesses to Bug, Dragon, Ice, and more. I think Latias is very much A or A+ rank.
  6. Agent Gibbs

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    Not sure what you're talking about. When people run a bulky LO set, they take EVs out of SpA for HP, not out of Spe. Besides, you seem to ignore Hydro Pump/Surf in rain spam, which is literally the reason why it's almost mandatory to have two or three Water resists (one of those is often Latias, by the way).

    This response is pretty odd. First you emphasize my point by demonstrating that even after Stealth Rock damage, Latias with minimum bulk will be surviving HP Ice over half the time, then you make some random comment about Latias not having notable traits without any examples?

    Wait, are we talking about prowess as a defensive Psychic Pokemon, or overall unpredictability and offensiveness? At any rate, the point is that both are very different Pokemon, and Latias offers several things that Jirachi cannot.

    Lol, perhaps I should be more clear. Latias can handle Specs Hydro Pump OR Scarf Hydro Pump in Rain. In other words, Hydro Pump with some form of 1.5 boost (either Rain or Specs) can be taken quite easily. Specs Keldeo in Rain is harder to handle for the offensive Latias set, but CM Latias can come in on it and take a Rain-boosted Hydro Pump, set up a CM (since, again, it outspeeds), and start Recovering off damage. Also, did you seriously just say that a Pokemon with 110 base speed is too slow to set up?

    Again, you're ignoring the other move spam like Surf/Hydro Pump in Rain. I also love how you make some vague point about "better pivots, etc." without naming examples.

    Lol, Dragon + Fire or Water is bad coverage now?

    Am I? Quote me where I said that we should ban Pokemon with base 110 SpA.

    Hey, you're the one that said base 110 SpA was pathetic and then started coming up with excuses for Tornadus-T. If it was about coverage instead of power (like you implied in your earlier point), you should have said that instead of "base 110 is pathetic for BW2 standards."
  7. Prosecutor Godot

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    If "too many better options" is a reason to lower a good pokemon's ranking, then why the fuck was Haxorus just moved up to B rank?

    Also if you think Latias would drop to RU then you must not play very much UU, Latias would be amazing there.
  8. DoABarrelRoll

    DoABarrelRoll

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    Personally I'm fine with latias being dropped into A rank, but in no way is she D rank material. Latias has many notable traits like excellent special bulk (how is 80/90/130 bad?), decent special attack which allows her to run an offensive set that can also take special hits (like HP Ice from non-specs keldeo, although I do think offensive latias is somewhat outclassed by her brother), good speed (you said that she's too slow to set up, lolno).

    Hydreigon has many flaws as a special attacker (U-turn weakness, mach punch and fighting weakness, and lower speed which means that it's stomped by the swords of justice, especially Terrakion). It does have higher attack stat, but tbh it's only useful for tyranitar and heatran, since I would never afford to use focus MISS (I'd run superpower even on a choice specs set and use a hasty nature).

    Latias is also not weak to stealth rock, unlike dragonite. Latias is not walled by skarmory and forretress because dragon pulse hits them on their weaker special defense. Latias is not weak to EQ unlike Jirachi. Latias also resists Water, Fire and Electric, unlike the steel/psychic pixie. I wouldn't say Reuniclus does its offensive job better because of how fucking slow it is and the fact that it needs trick room, and Alakazam is so frail it always has to rely on a focus sash to do its job.

    Blissey and Chansey may have large hp wishes but they have so many problems (imo they're more useless than fucking dusknoir, electivire or charizard of all things. they're setup fodder for way too many threats like Breloom because they don't have access to phazing moves, Chansey can't use Leftovers, Blissey can't really take physical hits, Taunt shuts down both of them, and Skarm, Forry and Ferro laugh at them unless Blissey carries the rare flamethrower. )

    110 SpA pathetic for bw2 standards? OK, now you're joking. She may not be Latios or Alakazam, but she still has access to that overpowered move we call Draco Meteor, which still hurts like hell.

    Your arguments are completely ridiculous and there's a reason latias is highly appreciated by good players. I would be OK with dropping her into A rank, but not when "drop this pokemon into A rank" are backed up by arguments like this. And definitely dropping her into D rank is a no-no, since she's not weaker than jolteon, metagross, staraptor, victini, infernape or durant.
  9. Punchshroom

    Punchshroom para is worse than sleep
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    Latias's bulk is the reason to use an offensive Latias over Latios (to check stuff like Keldeo or Thundurus-T better while retaining offensive presence), Latias has the obvious speed advantage over Hydreigon who is used as a wallbreaker anyway (something Latias shouldn't really attempt in the first place), and as per mentioned Latias doesn't have the pesky Rock and quadrupled Ice weakness Dragonite has and can also pull off a bulky boosting set akin to Dragonite in SubCM to equally potent success.
    One uses Jirachi to resist Dragon + Flying + Rock + Steel, Latias is used to resist Water + Electric + Fighting + Ground + Fire, totally different things. In fact they could even be used on the same team to decent success.
    One uses Latias as an offensive Dragon-type, not a Psychic-type. Would anyone even bother using Latias if it wasn't part Dragon?
    Allow me to direct you to this. Her impact on the meta was too influential and made the entire meta revolve around herself.
    80/90/130 bulk is bad? I'd like to know what you think of Ferrothorn's 74/131/116 bulk or Rotom-W's 50/107/107 bulk in that case. Also, Wish on Latias? I think this explains a lot right here, Latias's HP is nowhere near Chansey or even Vaporeon's level to pull it off effectively, you'd be better off using Latias's more unique support options such as Healing Wish to help your teammates.
    110 SpA is bad? Never mind Latias not only has a base 140 power STAB move with few resists but also has a solid boosting option in Calm Mind which she does better than her brother who is forced to attack outright a good majority of the time. The more I look at these posts, the more I think you're just expecting too much out of Latias. Yes, she faces competition here and there (but still not outclassed), but to drop her into C / D and even contemplate her in UU and god forbid RU? I'm sorry and no offense, but I'm absolutely dying to see what your backup arguments would be if you were to nominate something else.
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2013
  10. Jukain

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    4/0 Latias is like a funny joke -- the entry level of bulk on LO is 72 HP. I've gone so far as 152, which hits certain favorable benchmarks for me. Don't use it for calcs.
  11. FluffyStantler

    FluffyStantler Banned deucer.

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    So your saying I have to assume your and PDCs (I've read the PDC show already, thanks for the link anyhow) preferences over the official smogon analysis? Especially when I have 0 way of telling what you prefer until this moment, and also considering the fact that most people use an onsite spread because they're probably noobs or fanboys if their using latias in the BW meta? Yeah, thanks a lot, really useful logic there
  12. ogasian

    ogasian

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    Often, analysis EV spreads can be tweaked to serve more specific roles and optimized for the team. I sincerely encourage you to try out Latias instead or calling it a pokemon only used by noobs and fanboys. Yup. You just called many high ranking ladder players, a mentor, and many others noobs. Then I ask you this, What possesses Latias' combination of strenght, speed, bulk, excellent resitances, the ability to shit on rain and check/counter a potential Uber, and excellent stabs?
  13. Agent Gibbs

    Agent Gibbs

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    I personally run 116 HP to ensure that the occasional Modest Venusaur can't OHKO from full health after Growth, which gives me an emergency check to that. It's also just enough to guarantee that Scarf Keldeo will never 2HKO with HP Ice after Stealth Rock. I mainly used a 4/0 spread as an example to show what Latias is capable of even with minimum bulk investment.

    Often times, analyses are written with fairly basic EV spread in mind that can be adjusted as necessary. More advanced EV spreads are often created by more advanced players depending on the needs of the Pokemon in question and the team on which it is placed. More advanced EV spreads are also often mentioned in the Additional Comments of the given analysis. In fact, Latias's OU analysis does mention some bulkier EV spreads. In particular, a spread with 112 HP EVs is mentioned to prevent Modest LO Venusaur's +2 Sludge Bomb from OHKOing Latias from full health in that section (although as I mentioned before, my calcs show that 116 is actually needed, but I digress).

    Wait, you just said that you'd rather use the spread from the analysis than those offered by more skilled players, and then you turn around and say that people using onsite Latias spreads are "noobs or fanboys?"
  14. False Sense

    False Sense

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    Ok, where to begin with this...

    For starters, you're suggesting Latias for C (or D!?) Rank, which is meant mostly for Pokemon with only small niches in the metagame, or require more support than they may be worth. Keep in mind that you're advocating for dropping in from A+ Rank, home of some of the metagame's top threats and staples on many teams. The difference between the two ranks is quite large. In fact, I believe that a drop that large in size is unprecedented. It simply doesn't make sense to have Latias drop that much unless it had an incredibly important niche in the metagame taken from it, and was useless or outclassed outside of said niche.

    Frankly, that is not the case. Latias is arguably one of the best pokemon to use in the current metagame, mostly because of the prevalence of weather. Thanks to its great typing, which grants it resistances to Fire, Water, Grass, and Electric, and fantastic special bulk (which you claim is bad because it isn't as good as Blissey's... what?) it can easily take on numerous threats that are very common on weather teams, including Keldeo, Thundurus-T, Breloom, some Venusaur, the list goes on. It was even one of the better checks to Landorus-I when it was still around. Now, you could argue that Landorus-I being banned lowered Latias' viability, but that was certainly not its one and only niche in the metagame, as I explained. I would say it's probably the best defensive Dragon type in the metagame at the moment, better than Defensive Dragonite, which has an unfortunate weakness to Stealth Rocks as well as a bigger weakness to Ice attacks. Latias is actually able to shrug off weaker Ice attacks with it's great Special Defense, which is a huge plus for it. And even as a more defensive Dragon, it still packs a punch; its most common sets, the Tank set and the SubCM set, can either tank hits and deal them back with equal amount of force thanks to a nice Special Attack and great coverage, or set up on numerous walls and rip through teams, respectively. It's certainly not completely outclassed by Latios and Hydreigon; while they focus more on pure offense, Latias focuses more on being a fantastic check to a large portion of the metagame while still hitting pretty hard. Even compared to other Psychics, most notably Jirachi, they don't have the sheer amount of bulk Latias has or its resistances that are so crucial in this metagame. Jirachi as a special wall does not enjoy taking boosted Hydro Pumps or 100% accurate Thunders, much less boosted Fire attacks, all of which are common and easily absorbed by Latias. Saying Jirachi and the other Pyschic types outclass it is simply not true.

    So, I think that covered most of your points. In short, Latias DOES have a valuable role in the metagame as one of the best checks to both Rain, Sun, and common threats like Breloom, while also being an incredible offensive threat of its own, especially with its sweeping set. That's why it's currently in A+ Rank, where I do hope it will stay for quite some time.
  15. Jukain

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    I did not realize that the analysis has a 4/0 variant. I will discuss getting that changed.

    ...but seriously, you cannot run calcs at anything under 72 HP. It's like a joke.
  16. rachet67

    rachet67

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    I do think that latias should be moved down to A from A+. It is an awesome poke, with tons of options, but it's biggest flaw is that there's almost nothing it can do against choice band tyranitar pursuit, and scizor can also easily trap latias that lack hp fire. However, with smart playing you can work around this.
  17. PK Gaming

    PK Gaming Pursuing My True Self
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    I'm just going to repost this because people still aren't getting it.

    You shouldn't even bother trying to dignify FluffyStantler's post with a rebuttal, because he's either trolling or he has a profound misunderstanding of the BW OU metagame. Either way, responding to him is a bad idea and you shouldn't do it. FluffyStantler if you're reading this, your posts will be subjected to moderation if you keep this up. If you're not trolling, do some more research and learn to try to think before you post.
  18. Monte Cristo

    Monte Cristo Shots fired

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    If we're doing this then we honestly have to have a sht ton of A+s move down for similar or even more reasons, come on, latios has even more flaws in typical laddering AND tournament play. There are also some other pokemon who just have the same skeleton for being A+ (having 2+ very viable counters, but being able to play around 1+ of them other than that being an excellent poke) Also, considering the whole blow up of sun stall, we can clearly see the blow up of Latias's viability, as imo latias is one of the best pokemon on sun stall next to pokemon like cress and chansey, and the best thing is: It checks rain and it's great and it's A+ rank viability without supporting sun stall already! Overall I think the meta just keeps getting better for latias, especially with landorus running uturn less and less before it got banned, man it was fun switching in my -still very viable- 252 HP/184 Sdef/72 Spe Calm latias just to troll LandKeldeo (I was using stall at the time, so don't get mad at me when you lose a match with HO if you use this wrong lel), regardless, Latias is very viable in many different ways, however just like any A+ or even S rank pokemon (hint hint @PK Gaming pls respond) it has it's counters and flaws.

    Still wondering about Sawsbuck n' Lillligant's possible placement changes since, you know, it would be one of the most productive suggestions that has happened here in a while, especially since those two had a lack of negetive feedback
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  19. Mandeln

    Mandeln

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    I honestly think Jirachi should be moved up to S class. Everything about it is great, it has great resists, a great moveset, great stats, and a great ability. It can stall out just about any pokemon given the right setup, and take down an entire team if it's weakened or not prepared. It definitely stand up among the three that are already there.
  20. malefic

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    On rachi: its stats and typing are a ddouble-edged sword as stats and typing are responsible for both elevating it to a rank but keeping it out of s rank. Psychic/steel allows it to sponge dmeteor from the ubiquitous lati twins; the scarf set checks physical dragons as well. Having weaknesses only to fire and ground also allow rachi to function as a brilliant pivot around zam and gar, which threaten offensive and balanced teams significantly. An excellent ability in serene grace and stab iron head + body slam/twave gives rachi more staying power and an offensive presence. Yet psychic steel typing lets rachi down in that powerful water type attacks especially those boosted by rain often prove too much for it to handle. Volc and chomp stand as solid checks to rachi; Volc especially sets up all over scarfrachi... Heatran is a mon that rachi simply cannot get the better of (it sucks against sun in general) although tran does have the tendency of checking what are otherwise some of the meta's most prominent threats. While all round 100 stats does a lot for rachi defensively, it leaves some room for desire offensively as rachi often finds its attacks dealing ineffectual/insufficient damage. All in all the key thing to be understood is that rachi is actually checked/countered by plenty of prominent mons in the meta but at the same time it checks/counters a handful of threats that many other mons in ou have difficulty with (Lati@s zam gar kyub). As such, (different variants of) rachi often find homes on good teams of all playstyles hence making rachi a solid A ranker.
  21. Robert Alfons

    Robert Alfons The Lord's Favorite
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    FluffyStantler has been swept by CM Latias one time too many and now decides to avenge himself by saying Latias sucks.

    In all seriousness though, you (@FluffyStantler) say that Hydreigon would outclass Latias as an offensive dragon? Hydreigon surely has his advantages, such as a higher SpA and the ability to go mixed, but base 98 speed leaves him really prone to being revenge killed by, oh, I don't know, half the offensive metagame. Terrakion, Keldeo, Salamence, Lati@s, Alakazam, Garchomp, Gengar, Infernape and Volcarona can all outspeed him without using a scarf and OHKO. Of course he still has viability, but if you don't like being revenge killed then maybe Latias is better.The added bulk is actually huge, she might not put the hurt on things like Latios does but she'll still dent a lot of shit (Base 110 SpA is not low). Furthermore, Latias' Calm Mind set is one of the hardest to stop. Her bulk is actually fantastic (dunno where you got the idea that 80/90/130 is bad. "Just use Blissey" is about the stupidest thing I've ever heard because Blissey falls to physical attacks much easier and is a massive piece of setup bait) and she can easily use it in tandem with Roost to keep herself healthy while stacking boosts. She's really one of the most fearsome setup sweepers if you let her.

    One of your greatest fallacies is, once again, the thing with the bulk. You say that 80/90/130 bulk is bad and that you should rather use Blissey (who fulfills an entirely different niche so jokes on you), but then you say bulky Dragonite is better while Dragonite has 91/95/100 bulk (which is slightly better on the physical side but significantly worse on the special side). Multiscale might be taken into account but that can be broken by Stealth Rock. On top of that, Latias simply has a better typing; Dragon/Flying leaves Dragonite 4x weak to ice (Mamoswine says hi), Latias doesn't have the problem of 4x weaknesses. On the topic of typings, you claim that Jirachi (with its 100/100/100 bulk) is a better defensive psychic type, hm? I don't think so. The thing is, it's all up to what you want to protect yourself against. Latias, for example, can counter rain sweepers a lot better than Jirachi (and rain is only one of the most common playstyles as of now) as well as prominent threats such as Heatran and Breloom, whereas Jirachi fares better against dragons et cetera. But I'm going to stop now.

    tl;dr Latias definitely has as much of a niche as Latios thanks to better bulk and therefor shouldn't be written off. Saying she belong in C- or even D-rank would mean she's nicheless which is blatantly false. Anyone who denies this is plain wrong.
    False Sense and Usatoday like this.
  22. Jukain

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    wait rachi is a rank?

    rachi is literally the best mon in the game. it was #1 used in wcop for a reason.

    rachi can run lots of different sets, and do them well. its sdef is still going strong as one of the best lati counters in the metagame. it even deals with kyurem-b okay, which is one of the hardest things to handle (please don't bring up cb calcs, and I know it can run earth power) in the game at this point. mixed shuca takes this a step further, as it can actually take an earth power. it can also lure and kill ground-types like chomp and lando-t with ease. this set has amazing coverage. scarf is THE all-purpose revenge killer; literally any team in need of a good scarfer -- and one that resists dragon at that -- can use it well. wish cm, which has recovery and can set up on like everything once ground-types are gone, is prolly the best sweeping set, and jirachi just never dies with it and has that thunder paralysis to spread. it's also got subcm -- the bane of ferros/forrys everywhere.

    rachi has the resistances, the ability, the stats, and the versatility of an s rank pokemon. it should be there.
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  23. Robert Alfons

    Robert Alfons The Lord's Favorite
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    yea man totally agree Arceus is NOTHING compared to rachi yeaaa

    In fact, let's ban Jirachi. I've thought long and hard about this and these are the reasons:

    - fuck paraflinch (x100)

    Plenty of reasons to ban him imho.

    (Jokes aside, paraflinch is so skill-less and uncompetitive that any self-respecting individual should never consider such a thing. It's disgusting.)
  24. ShootingStarmie

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    Since we're talking about Jirachi, I'll guest I'll repost my previous points

    "Nominating Jirachi for S rank.

    People have been debating whether Jirachi should be S rank or not already in previous pages. It fills so many roles, including a great Scarf set, a fantastic SpDef wall, and a deadly CM sweeper. It offers support for the team in the form or Wish, Healing Wish, and Stealth Rocks. Jirachi has seriously good typing, and it's movepool is incredible. And to top it all off, Jirachi can beat some of it's best counters with Iron Head flinch hax. While I don't believe that this pushes Jirachi to S rank, there's a new set floating around on the OU ladder that everyone is using now thanks to Bryce's Team. There's also a similar set which is currently being used in the OU CCAT.

    [​IMG]
    Jirachi @ Shuca Berry
    Trait: Serene Grace
    EVs: 32 HP / 252 SAtk / 224 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Stealth Rock
    - Flash Cannon
    - Thunderbolt
    - Hidden Power [Ice]

    With this set, Jirachi is now able to best some of it's best counters, with a surprising HP Ice. Generally Garchomp and Landorus-T love to switch into Jirachi, as they counter the usual sets. However, this Jirachi not only supports the team with Stealth Rocks, it also acts as an amazing lure to eliminate these Pokemon. Shuca Berry allows Jirachi to easily live EQ from Garchomp or Landorus-T, while Jirachi KOs them both back. Flash Cannon offers STAB and hits moderately hard, while Thunderbolt offers Bolt Beam coverage.

    [​IMG]
    Jirachi @ Leftovers / Shuca Berry
    Trait: Serene Grace
    EVs: 152 Atk / 208 SAtk / 148 Spd
    Hasty Nature (+Spd, -Def)
    - Iron Head
    - Grass Knot
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Thunderbolt

    Then there's this set, which drops SR for even more coverage. Grass Knot is pretty cruical, as it allows Jirachi to easily get past Gastrodon and Hippowdon, which are also general switch ins to Jirachi. Shuca Berry can be used on this set to also tank an EQ easily, but it's generally pretty easy to hit Gliscor / Garchomp on the switch, since they are such obvious switch ins to Jirachi. Iron Head is used over Flash Cannon for the 60% flinch rate and the ability to hit on both sides, while Jirachi is also packing Bolt Beam for it's amazing coverage.

    The fact that Jirachi can get past it's usual counters so easily, as well as providing team support in so many other ways I believe makes Jirachi S rank worthy. I just generally think you're never at a disadvantage if you through Jirachi onto your team, and it can fill so many different roles. This sounds S rank worthy to me."

    I also made a very detailed post discussing Jirachi through out the BW metagame, and how it's always been a top Pokemon. I go into detail about it's best sets, and how it's adapted through out the metagame.

    http://www.smogon.com/forums/thread...h-gen-ou-metagame.3487848/page-3#post-4821065

    So hopefully this can generate more discussion, since people seem like they wanna talk about it.
    FluffyStantler and scotti like this.
  25. alexwolf

    alexwolf Rain Summoner
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    Yeah, atm Jirachi is definitely worthy of being in S rank. Its attacking sets are superb, be it SubCM, lure, or Scarf, and its specially defensive set is a real bitch to many offensive teams that lack a Ground-type. Jirachi for S rank!
    FluffyStantler likes this.
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