Gen 5 The OU Viability Ranking thread

Status
Not open for further replies.
I think Latios is the one that needs to be S rank. He's just incredibly powerful with a choice specs and even tyranitar will have to think twice before switching in on that. Blissey can be 2hkoed by psyshock and offensive heatran is taken out by surf. Now Latios suffers a bit from four moveslot syndrome (Trick vs HP Fire) when using a choice specs, but they both cripple Ferrothorn and Jirachi badly (both are 2hkoed by hp fire and they both hate trick.) he can also resort to a Life Orb (which I think is his best set because he can switch moves) and still be very threatening offensively. Or he can go on a support route with Memento and dual screens (which is not outclassed by latias because Memento > Healing Wish imo) and an offensive calm mind set which once again is not outclassed by his sister. He can even go on a physical route to take out Tyranitar with +1 earthquake or be a good revenge killer when having a choice scarf (Draco Meteor is still going to hurt).

Nothing can fully counter all of his sets and he is just so versatile. He truly deserves S rank.
 
I think Latios is the one that needs to be S rank. He's just incredibly powerful with a choice specs and even tyranitar will have to think twice before switching in on that. Blissey can be 2hkoed by psyshock and offensive heatran is taken out by surf. Now Latios suffers a bit from four moveslot syndrome (Trick vs HP Fire) when using a choice specs, but they both cripple Ferrothorn and Jirachi badly (both are 2hkoed by hp fire and they both hate trick.) he can also resort to a Life Orb (which I think is his best set because he can switch moves) and still be very threatening offensively. Or he can go on a support route with Memento and dual screens (which is not outclassed by latias because Memento > Healing Wish imo) and an offensive calm mind set which once again is not outclassed by his sister. He can even go on a physical route to take out Tyranitar with +1 earthquake or be a good revenge killer when having a choice scarf (Draco Meteor is still going to hurt).

Nothing can fully counter all of his sets and he is just so versatile. He truly deserves S rank.
I am sorry if I sound like a complete jerk,but your post looks like its a Smogon Latios analysis overview with all the negatives removed XD.

Anyway,I have never had any problems with Latios,and maybe thats because I am a sand-balance exclusive player,but maybe it is because it's Choice sets gets Pursuit trapped too easily.I mean,the first thing that goes on in your mind once you see a Latios in your opponent's team,is "I HAVE keep my Pursuit trapper alive until Latios is dead".Pursuit trapping it isn't really that hard,just bring your trapper in after it's Sp.Att is halved.

Now being a sand-balance exclusive,I tend to run Scizor and Tyranitar a lot,so maybe I am being biased.Most common steel-type Dragon checks,including Ferrothorn,Jirachi,Bronzong,Scizor,and to a lesser extent,Skarmory and Forretress,can all check Latios decently well (yeah.....Forre and Skarm can't really take a hit),and if you are indeed running a non-offensive team,dedicated Dragon-type checks are mandatory.What I am trying to say is,Latios's checks are no different from any other Dragon-type in OU,making dedicated checks to Latios not worthwhile.For example,compare it to Keldeo,people HAVE to run something that resists Keldeo's Dual-STAB if they don't want to be screwed,and even then,it still gives some trouble.

You said that Latios can get past all it's counters with the appropriate moves,and while that is not completely correct,I do kind of agree.But then again,it is a Dragon-type,and every other Dragon-type in OU can do this,not just Latios,so if Latios gets sent to S rank,the other Dragons might a well do too.

Take Dragonite for example.Just like what you said about Latios,it has extremely high attack,has the ability to run multiple sets(DD,Rain Abuse,Rain Tank,Multiscale Shuffler,Mixed,etc.),and get past it's counters with the appropriate move.For example,it can get past Ferrothorn,Skarmory and Forretress with Fire Blast,Heatran with EQ,it can 2HKO Air Balloon Heatran with +1 Outrage while it can't OHKO back with Multiscale intact,OHKO or 2HKO Landorus-Therian,Gliscor,and Hippowdon with Ice beam (or Waterfall or Aqua Tail if it gets it).Unlike Latios,it cannot be trappped easily,and even 2HKO some steels with Outrage.Does this mean Dragonite is S rank material?NO.Just like Latios,it has some crippling flaws that always get in the way.For starters,a Stealth Rock weakness and susceptibility to priority and revenge killing even at +1 due to low speed.

So overall,Latios is just like other Dragons,very low checks,versatile,powerful,but with exploitable flaws.So if it goes S rank,the other Dragons might as well.
 
Ok people enough of the "Insert dragon here" for S rank; it's not gonna happen (maybe chomp but that's it). S rank wouldn't be what it is if it were possible for so many mons to get a bump up to that level. If anything, I feel like S rank should even be shortened at the point that its at now. I don't know why but since the Keldeo test has been over, I haven't been feeling to pressured by its existence. I literally pack a SpD Jelli on my team and feel content facing it and most of the time I have no problems with it. Rain boosted Hydro Pumps can still be a major bitch to face but like I said, Jellicent eats it up. And just like its been said before, there are a bunch of checks that Keldeo has, whether it be in OU or somewhere down in the lower tiers. I'll probably catch a lot of flack for this but I'm going to nominate Keldeo for A+.
 
I think that the fact that sp def jellicent, slowking, toxicroak on weatherless, randomly slapping celebi/latias in your team for no reason other than checking it, are even things to begin with not to mention that it got suspected twice, works on pratically any team, is commonly considered the best pokemon in the current metagame, has stab moves boosted by the most common weather, resistance to priority, monstrous offensive stats among others should be enough to keep it S rank.
 
The fact that every weatherless offense team i have made that doesn't have a offensive latias with 72 hp for scarf keldeos rain hpump fails miserable shows that keldeo is s rank easily, and number one s rank IMO as well. It just shits on offense so easily with ebelt or scarf, and on stall with ebelt, specs, or cm
 
Just saying that if Keldeo's counters' usages are high, than it should drop because its over prepared for and thus isn't extremely effective against common archetypes of teams. Similar reasoning was applied to why Heracross was dropped from S-Rank in the UU viability ranking thread. Note: I am not saying Keldeo should drop.
 
Youre implying that such reasoning is objectively correct. I personally dont agree with it and im not really sure what makes you think that the uu viability rank decisions have anything to do with ou.
 
Just saying that if Keldeo's counters' usages are high, than it should drop because its over prepared for and thus isn't extremely effective against common archetypes of teams. Similar reasoning was applied to why Heracross was dropped from S-Rank in the UU viability ranking thread. Note: I am not saying Keldeo should drop.
Ladder rankings do not influence viability rankings. In fact, if lots of teams are prepared for Keldeo, chances are it's good enough for S-Rank, since it implies that Keldeo is dangerous in OU.

I personally think that Keldeo really deserves S-Rank, as it forces teams to run something to beat it (which isn't THAT hard to do, but you do have to do it if you want to win games).
 
Ladder rankings do not influence viability rankings. In fact, if lots of teams are prepared for Keldeo, chances are it's good enough for S-Rank, since it implies that Keldeo is dangerous in OU.

I personally think that Keldeo really deserves S-Rank, as it forces teams to run something to beat it (which isn't THAT hard to do, but you do have to do it if you want to win games).
But I think the same could be said of a lot of A+ and A ranked Pokemon... if you don't run SOMETHING to cover threats in the upper tiers, chances are one of them is going to really mess you up. Maybe you were trying to say that Keldeo's counters are fewer and more specialized than A-rank 'mons, which are easier to prepare for and handle with less team investment?
 
Are we seriously discussing dropping keldeo out of S rank? Although I haven't played in a while the meta hasn't changed drastically for the last 3'ish months and Keldeo remains easily the most damaging pokemon in OU. I would go as far to say that it is the 'best' in the current metagame as there is so much that keldeo can do and there is so many pokemon that suffer in usage / viability or have gained usage / viability simply because of keldeos existance. AFAIK S rank pokemon can be dropped onto any team, can fill a variety of roles to good success and have a very strong hold on the OU metagame while having limited checks / counters. Keldeo easily fills all that criteria. If your team can't handle keldeo your going nowhere fast in the current state of OU.
 
I would say Jirachi is the best pokemon in the current metagame, Keldeo is Low S to me, but I could totally see it dropping to A+..
I can safely say I never think of Keldeo at all when teambuilding. ( I still often have good checks because it's almost impossible to have a good scald switchin without it doubling as a keldeo check )
 
AFAIK S rank pokemon can be dropped onto any team, can fill a variety of roles to good success and have a very strong hold on the OU metagame while having limited checks / counters. Keldeo easily fills all that criteria. If your team can't handle keldeo your going nowhere fast in the current state of OU.
The same can be said about its older musketeer, Terrakion, who was at one point S until it dropped sometime a couple months ago. I would argue that Terrakion has an even smaller list of checks and better ways to get by them. Terrakion can kill off faster pokes without a Scarf by using Quick Attack while Keldeo only has Aqua Jet, which is completely useless since its Attack sucks. Keldeo is also one of the few water types that do not have access to Ice Beam, while Terrakion has access to everything it could dream of. SD, Rock Polish, and priority are all extremely generous gifts awarded to Terrakion, while Keldeo cannot boost its speed and does not have access to Nasty Plot or a special priority move.
 
Lol @ quick attack and terrakion having less checks than keldeo. I have no idea what point youre tring to make when that mighty priority is doing 27%ish even physically frail stuff like latios or when that shitty defensive typing ensures that if you fail to ko the opponent you get koed back (hence pretty much anything that can survive a hit can check it) . Bring rock polish, swords dance or whatever else all you want, those sets are barely seen for a reason, and thats because terrakion struggle to find any setup opportunity, and even if he does, its ridiculous easy to revenge kill. Keldeo can simply nuke everything with its monstrous rain boosted hydro pump while being a pain to rk, forcing the use of stuff like jelly, latias, celebi to stop it.
 
I am getting extremely pissed off about the Keldeo arguments,it DESERVES A+.

SmashBrosBrawl,have you even used those sets on Terrakion before?

Many make the argument that you can just slap a Keldeo on a random Rain team,and expect it to do work.This,is very,very wrong,and heres why:common checks or counters to Keldeo are also pretty decent checks to Rain itself,so by adding Keldeo to a rain team,Rain teams are adding weaknesses to these threats.Since Rain is so dominant,every team with somesort of defensive backbone will have a check to rain,so,by definition,every team with a defensive backbone will have a check to Keldeo.Only teams that lack a defensive core,like Hyper Offensive teams,will struggle with Keldeo.

Look at a hypothetical scenario where lets say Keldeo got banned.A common argument is that Keldeo "forces" people to run Celebi,Latias,etc..Look,even if Keldeo got banned,people running non-hyperoffensive teams will still be forced to run these pokemon because every good team needs a rain check and these pokemon are good rain checks.
 
I am getting extremely pissed off about the Keldeo arguments,it DESERVES A+.

SmashBrosBrawl,have you even used those sets on Terrakion before?

Many make the argument that you can just slap a Keldeo on a random Rain team,and expect it to do work.This,is very,very wrong,and heres why:common checks or counters to Keldeo are also pretty decent checks to Rain itself,so by adding Keldeo to a rain team,Rain teams are adding weaknesses to these threats.Since Rain is so dominant,every team with somesort of defensive backbone will have a check to rain,so,by definition,every team with a defensive backbone will have a check to Keldeo.Only teams that lack a defensive core,like Hyper Offensive teams,will struggle with Keldeo.

Look at a hypothetical scenario where lets say Keldeo got banned.A common argument is that Keldeo "forces" people to run Celebi,Latias,etc..Look,even if Keldeo got banned,people running non-hyperoffensive teams will still be forced to run these pokemon because every good team needs a rain check and these pokemon are good rain checks.
Why are you so mad? Chill bro, it's Pokemon.

But eh, I dunno where I stand on Keldeo. While you're right that people are forced to use Latias / Celebi and other rain checks regardless of whether Keldeo is OU or not, running Keldeo on a rain team doesn't add to the rain team's weaknesses, as Keldeo + rain can often muscle through rain's usual checks. Rotom-W, Latias, Latios, Celebi, Ferrothorn, and other rain checks are Pokemon rain teams can muscle through, mainly because of Keldeo. I dunno if this makes it A+ or S rank, but don't get so mad just because someone disagrees with you.
 
Nominate Vaporeon for B rank.

I thought about this quite some bit - and while rain support isn't absolutely needed for Vaporeon, it can really help. In rain, Vaporeon checks Keldeo pretty hard from experience (because in rain, it can take 3 hits before dying, so you can Toxic Keldeo on the first turn, rest the next, and Scald when available). If you're using the Hydration set, Vaporeon can come in on almost any non-SE attack, Rest when the water is up (often times healing it up to full because of how slow it is), then set up Toxic the next turn, and wall out many threats that are serious checks and counters to many teams otherwise. That said, you don't need Politoed's Drizzle ability to make Vaporeon work, either. Giving it Rain Dance instead of something like Roar or Wish makes it a convenient weather stopper and a tank in one role. It also works pretty well outside of the rain, with Wish Support, and surprisingly, being a bulky offensive water type. And while it may seem redundant, you can give Vaporeon Protect and Rest if you're using the Hydration set. That way it can protect for a turn if its on low health, but could survive an attack with some more health, then rest to full health during the next turn.

For Pokemon like Espeon and Alakazam, which have either Magic Bounce or Magic Guard, you can often times 2HKO them, so worrying about Toxic damage is null anyways.

I'll admit, Vaporeon has its flaws - It can't often beat out Ferrothorn (as well as many other grass types) in many cases and it has a tough time against both Blissey and Chansey, but I have beaten both of them with Vaporeon before. Aside from that, however, Vaporeon can pretty much wreck face on most teams.
 

ScraftyIsTheBest

Clangorous Soulblazer
is a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
Vaporeon is completely outclassed by Jellicent. Jellicent outclasses Vaporeon in almost every way, and it handles stuff much better than Vaporeon because of the extra Ghost typing. It handles Keldeo far better because of this, and is a much better wall. I'd say more but I'm out of time, but Vaporeon is mostly outclassed and should stay in C.
 

Punchshroom

Paralysis is slightly less of a devil
is a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
If Vaporeon is functioning without Rain, then yeah it is pretty outclassed by Jellicent, and faces competition in Wishing with Chansey, who shrugs off status without Rain or Heal Bell (bar Toxic Spikes). In Rain, Vaporeon can function differently, but what kind of attacks is it supposed to take that its teammates can't, considering it's a Rain team? <- This is what it means to stack weaknesses, Keldeo does not really do so since it's not supposed to be taking hits, but things like Jelly and Vappy who primarily take hits cannot support Rain teams as effectively. Also, DON'T run Rain Dance on Vappy, the Rain's duration means you may not be able to Rest at the right time and also be helpless against SubCM Keldeo. Vappy can run an interesting offensive tank set, who launches powerful hits off 110 base SpA and Rests off all the damage, but other Water attackers do exist (Keldeo duh) and are much faster. Vappy should stay in C imo.
 
I'm all for dropping keldeo, keldeo is way too overhyped, it's checks in general are just good OU pokemon like latias (which is like one of the best pokemon in OU, it's A+ for a reason people, and it was there pre-keldeo), stop acting like people have to carry shit like fucking sdef slaking or something that bad to check keldeo, they don't, all of keldeo's checks are damn good in OU, celebi and latias especially, those 2 provide so much help to standard teams in general.

Keldeo is good, but it's deadweight against sun, 108 is a great speed tier but it's an awkward one, it's beating shit like volcarona, but it's only tieng with terrakion and virizion, and it loses in speed to alakazam, latias, latios , starmie, jolteon, raikou heck even azelf if you're willing to go there, the point is that it gets revneged, think of it like scarf or banded victini under sun, it hits hard AS FUCK and is hard to manage if you're dealing with their prefered weather condition (heck victini at least has trick, uturn and bolt strike but that's not the point) but it's honestly very manageable if you play right. Keldeo teams will struggle to touch most good teams in this meta due to keldeo being very easy to check (for example latias is always a staple on my teams not because of keldeo btw, it just is great for most of my teams, checking kelde is jsut a good trait of it) if you know what your doing, and it being easy to switch into if it's not in it's preferred weather, this argument may seem terrible to you because "WTF YOU CAN'T COMPARE VICTINI AND KELDEO, KELDEO IS WAY BETTER" is the natural response, but this is jsut some food for thought

Which btw, victini needs a shot at A rank, it's one tough wall breaker to switch into, and it's scarf sets are so useful for checking many threats. It's one of the most difficult pokemon to switch into, uturn, trick and bolt strike make switching in standard checks hard, but this is a very light argument to test the waters, so try not to take this TOO seriously
 
I'm all for dropping keldeo, keldeo is way too overhyped, it's checks in general are just good OU pokemon like latias (which is like one of the best pokemon in OU, it's A+ for a reason people, and it was there pre-keldeo), stop acting like people have to carry shit like fucking sdef slaking or something that bad to check keldeo, they don't, all of keldeo's checks are damn good in OU, celebi and latias especially, those 2 provide so much help to standard teams in general.
Keldeo is a top-tier threat in OU. Just because it's really good doesn't mean that it doesn't have checks though.

Keldeo is good, but it's deadweight against sun
The prospect of Keldeo being "dead weight" against any team just because of the weather seems silly. He has two STABs, one of them being independent of weather. Regardless of sun, rain, or sandstorm, Keldeo still has a great Sp. Atk stat and speed. He just so happens to work best under rain because one of his STAB moves become 50% stronger. While he clearly isn't as effective under sun, calling him "dead weight" would be an exaggeration. He doesn't need rain to function nor is he helpless in sun.

, 108 is a great speed tier but it's an awkward one, it's beating shit like volcarona, but it's only tieng with terrakion and virizion, and it loses in speed to alakazam, latias, latios , starmie, jolteon, raikou heck even azelf if you're willing to go there, the point is that it gets revneged, think of it like scarf or banded victini under sun, it hits hard AS FUCK and is hard to manage if you're dealing with their prefered weather condition (heck victini at least has trick, uturn and bolt strike but that's not the point) but it's honestly very manageable if you play right.
Obviously, Keldeo's 108 base speed isn't going to out-speed anything with a higher base speed. You yourself said that it's still a great speed tier though, and it really is. Certain pokemon can still outspeed Keldeo, but a great number of them can't. ANY pokemon that doesn't have extremespeed can be "revenged" if your definition of the word simply means "another pokemon is faster than it".

Keldeo teams will struggle to touch most good teams in this meta due to keldeo being very easy to check (for example latias is always a staple on my teams not because of keldeo btw, it just is great for most of my teams, checking kelde is jsut a good trait of it) if you know what your doing, and it being easy to switch into if it's not in it's preferred weather, this argument may seem terrible to you because "WTF YOU CAN'T COMPARE VICTINI AND KELDEO, KELDEO IS WAY BETTER" is the natural response, but this is jsut some food for thought

Which btw, victini needs a shot at A rank, it's one tough wall breaker to switch into, and it's scarf sets are so useful for checking many threats. It's one of the most difficult pokemon to switch into, uturn, trick and bolt strike make switching in standard checks hard, but this is a very light argument to test the waters, so try not to take this TOO seriously
Keldeo teams consist of more than just a Keldeo. Keldeo just so happens to have a great partnership with Tyranitar, who just happens to pursuit trap a lot of Keldeo's checks very well. Victini is clearly a notch down from Keldeo. Keldeo is faster, has a higher Sp. atk stat, is not vulnerable to pursuit-trapping, is not weak to stealth rocks, and his water attacks don't lower his stats.
 

Stone RG

Megas are broke
I'm all for dropping keldeo, keldeo is way too overhyped, it's checks in general are just good OU pokemon like latias (which is like one of the best pokemon in OU, it's A+ for a reason people, and it was there pre-keldeo), stop acting like people have to carry shit like fucking sdef slaking or something that bad to check keldeo, they don't, all of keldeo's checks are damn good in OU, celebi and latias especially, those 2 provide so much help to standard teams in general.

Keldeo is good, but it's deadweight against sun, 108 is a great speed tier but it's an awkward one, it's beating shit like volcarona, but it's only tieng with terrakion and virizion, and it loses in speed to alakazam, latias, latios , starmie, jolteon, raikou heck even azelf if you're willing to go there, the point is that it gets revneged, think of it like scarf or banded victini under sun, it hits hard AS FUCK and is hard to manage if you're dealing with their prefered weather condition (heck victini at least has trick, uturn and bolt strike but that's not the point) but it's honestly very manageable if you play right. Keldeo teams will struggle to touch most good teams in this meta due to keldeo being very easy to check (for example latias is always a staple on my teams not because of keldeo btw, it just is great for most of my teams, checking kelde is jsut a good trait of it) if you know what your doing, and it being easy to switch into if it's not in it's preferred weather, this argument may seem terrible to you because "WTF YOU CAN'T COMPARE VICTINI AND KELDEO, KELDEO IS WAY BETTER" is the natural response, but this is jsut some food for thought

Which btw, victini needs a shot at A rank, it's one tough wall breaker to switch into, and it's scarf sets are so useful for checking many threats. It's one of the most difficult pokemon to switch into, uturn, trick and bolt strike make switching in standard checks hard, but this is a very light argument to test the waters, so try not to take this TOO seriously
....
Sorry for the rudeness but this gave me cancer.

Deadweaight against sun, hello? Keldeo literally 2HKOs every common sun pokemon, are you sending in your ninetales to take scarf hpump? wel then thanks for giving me the weather war, specs OHKOs with Secret sword after rocks damage, you can argue you can send in venusaur or a dragonite to get countered by that exact same latias youre talking about on the former and landorus t on the latter, i know im talking about partners, but this 2 are such extremely common in sand, rain or weatherless, it isnt even funny, and youre taking into account latias must be on every time right?

Keldeo alone makes specially defensive celebi almost an staple on semi or full stall, because lati@s and jelli are the definition of tyranitar bait, and in general, easily pursuit trappable for the former, as of jelli, it takes away offensive momentum, vital in this meta. Keldeo isnt a one trick pony contrary to popular opinion either, its easily one, if not THE best cleaner in this metagame, every team is weak keldeo combos, namely ttar + keld, in one way or another.

Keldeo was suspected because of the ease for which it brings momentum against 95% of the common offense teams, that risk sending in their lati@s, to get countered by the corresponding rachi or trapped by ttar, Passho Volcarona or Yache chomp's is greatly influenced by keldeo's presence in OU. Also, you might have noticed how i mentioned quite some partners for keld, so it supposedly needs a lot of partners to work well doesnt it? No, thats a common misinterpretation of pony's use, ebelt keldeo is one of the most versatile and dangerous poke in the meta for a reason, scarf as one the best cleaners with a sole team push to get past the counters, specs is easily the most horrible to face by ANY team, it is almost literally the special counterpart of BW1 band terrakion. In teambuilding, keldeo fits easily because of the common chracteristics a lot of its counters share, and the unviability of some of them in out all-out offense meta.

I dont think imma argue with victini, i have no experience with him, but as i have seen it, needing sun support automatically makes him B at best in my eyes.
 
....
I dont think imma argue with victini, i have no experience with him, but as i have seen it, needing sun support automatically makes him B at best in my eyes.
By this logic, Venusaur should be B, since it needs Sun to sweep, since without double speed it can't do much. However, Venusaur is A. Victini is perfectly capable of A imo. Anyway, only S requires little-no support.
 

Stone RG

Megas are broke
By this logic, Venusaur should be B, since it needs Sun to sweep, since without double speed it can't do much. However, Venusaur is A. Victini is perfectly capable of A imo. Anyway, only S requires little-no support.
By extension, needing sun support means a spinner or a magic bouncer, i dont think any generic sun poke bar venusaur can be considered A-rank, because, even though he's used only as a sun sweeper, his differences lie in the fact he isnt rocks weak, and his typing lets him set up on a variety of pokes, not to mention other niche moves such as sleep powder or luring heatran to EQ him, venusaur is one of the reasons winning the weather war against sun is so important.
 
....
Sorry for the rudeness but this gave me cancer.

Deadweaight against sun, hello? Keldeo literally 2HKOs every common sun pokemon, are you sending in your ninetales to take scarf hpump? wel then thanks for giving me the weather war, specs OHKOs with Secret sword after rocks damage, you can argue you can send in venusaur or a dragonite to get countered by that exact same latias youre talking about on the former and landorus t on the latter, i know im talking about partners, but this 2 are such extremely common in sand, rain or weatherless, it isnt even funny, and youre taking into account latias must be on every time right?

Keldeo alone makes specially defensive celebi almost an staple on semi or full stall, because lati@s and jelli are the definition of tyranitar bait, and in general, easily pursuit trappable for the former, as of jelli, it takes away offensive momentum, vital in this meta. Keldeo isnt a one trick pony contrary to popular opinion either, its easily one, if not THE best cleaner in this metagame, every team is weak keldeo combos, namely ttar + keld, in one way or another.

Keldeo was suspected because of the ease for which it brings momentum against 95% of the common offense teams, that risk sending in their lati@s, to get countered by the corresponding rachi or trapped by ttar, Passho Volcarona or Yache chomp's is greatly influenced by keldeo's presence in OU. Also, you might have noticed how i mentioned quite some partners for keld, so it supposedly needs a lot of partners to work well doesnt it? No, thats a common misinterpretation of pony's use, ebelt keldeo is one of the most versatile and dangerous poke in the meta for a reason, scarf as one the best cleaners with a sole team push to get past the counters, specs is easily the most horrible to face by ANY team, it is almost literally the special counterpart of BW1 band terrakion. In teambuilding, keldeo fits easily because of the common chracteristics a lot of its counters share, and the unviability of some of them in out all-out offense meta.

I dont think imma argue with victini, i have no experience with him, but as i have seen it, needing sun support automatically makes him B at best in my eyes.
I knew that someone would honestly try to say this post was shit, after all like 95% of the OU players think I'm trash, but I'll take this post as my invitation to leave, since I don't wanna be sending people to the hospital (great making fun of cancer basically too man)
 
The Keldeo debate doesnt seem to be going anywhere fast so I'll try bring up a new discussion~

This one may be a bit controverisal but I am going to propose moving Tyranitar to A+ tier. Reading the definition of S tier, Tyranitar doesn't seem to fit very well into there at all. Tyranitar can neither sweep or wall the majority of the tier and it can't support other pokemon with little oppurtunity cost. Tyranitar can't perform more than one role effectively, sure it can run differant sets but at the end of the day the only reason you would of put ttar into your team over another pokemon is for sand stream. I don't feel that his flaws are mitigated by his strengths as although an incredibly strong pokemon, Tyranitar has a lot of checks / counters that commonly appear on the opposing weather teams (dugtrio on sun, keld on rain etc.) and his huge amount of weaknesses to common offensive typings such as water, ground and fighting make it hard for him to do his job. Since the removal of lando-i ans as such the removal of ttar / keld / lando - i I feel that sand took a small hit to its strength and tyranitar did suffer a bit. Considering it also faces competition from hippowdon as the teams sand streamer who does better against duggy sun and is a lot mure durable than ttar and I do think that Ttar is more A+ than S. Having used ttar in 60% of my teams in BW2 I think hes not as strong as he was a few months ago and as such should drop.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.