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Gen 5 The OU Viability Ranking thread

Discussion in 'Ruins of Alph' started by PK Gaming, Oct 17, 2012.

  1. Lady Alex

    Lady Alex This game sucks. Ban everything and it might not.

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    I think you're underestimating the TR set. TR is especially dangerous right now, with most teams relying on their fast, hard hitting offense teams to win. Mid to late game, Reuniclus can completely flip the match upside down and severely cripple or outright sweep an opposing offensive team. Calm Mind Reuniclus is quite outdated, and can't stand up to the offensive pressure in the current metagame, so TR is it's best bet. Despite it's lack of versatility right now, how strong Reuniclus is with Trick room is enough to keep it at B rank imo.
  2. False Sense

    False Sense

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    On the subject of Cobalion...

    After testing it for awhile, I agree with Electrolyte that Cobalion should be B-Rank.

    Let's take a look at the definitions of the ranks:

    C Rank: Reserved for Pokemon who can be effective given the right support, but either have crippling flaws that prevent them from consistently executing their strategy or are completely eclipsed by a Pokemon in the above ranks.

    Cobalions most crippling flaw is definitely its low special-defence, but the same can be said for several other B Rank pokemon. Cobalion has several advantages over its competition (Skarmory, for example) with its excellent speed stat, solid stats for mixed-attacking, great defense, and Volt Switch. The fact that it also has a lightning fast Taunt is also extremely helpful in the current metagame.

    Now if we look at B Rank:

    B Rank: Reserved for Pokemon who cannot sweep through or wall significant portions of the metagame, but can properly fulfill a given offensive/defensive niche. Support Pokemon in this category have flaws that prevent them from doing their job or are setup bait for dangerous sweepers. Pokemon who are partially outperformed by a Pokemon in A or S Rank, but are otherwise very dangerous, may also fall into this category.

    I think this fits Cobalion very well. True, it's definitely not sweeping teams, and its weaknesses to Fire, Fighting, and Ground keep it from walling everything, but it successfully fulfills a niche, both offensively and defensively. Its typing and Sp.Def give it flaws that hinder it, but it can still do a solid job. Therefore I feel that Cobalion, strange as it may be, has a solid place in B Rank.
  3. Crackstar

    Crackstar

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    Hopping on the Renuiclus train here, not only is it a solid B rank, it's one of the first ones I would consider for A-tier. I don't think you're a stall player, as CM Reuniclus is probably the single pokemon I like least to face when I'm running stall. Being impervious to chip damage is incredibly helpful, and it's really bulky on both sides if well-Ev'd and has Calm Minded. On the other hand, Trick Room by itself can decimate offence, Genesect or not, with Life Orb boosted attacks. Yeah Reuniclus is a solid B-Rank
  4. JGSabino

    JGSabino

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    I have tested Cobalion myself on a Sun team, and I have to agree that it's a solid B-rank. It worked on my team as an unpredictable stallbreaker that could take Outrages all day. It also works against Offensive, btw. It won me lots of games.
  5. SJCrew

    SJCrew Believer, going on a journey...
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    What Cobalion sets are you folks using that makes it look so B-rank?
  6. JGSabino

    JGSabino

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    I am using the Mixed Attacker set from the analysis.
  7. False Sense

    False Sense

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    I myself am using the standard Mixed Attacker set. It consists of Close Combat, Hp. Ice, Volt Switch, and Taunt, with max Speed investment, heavy Sp.Atk investment, and a Naive nature. It works wonders at shutting down walls or set up sweepers, and can easily grab momentum against the opposing team with Volt Swtich. Hp Ice murders dragons, and Close Combat does massive damage to Steel types, even without much investment.
  8. PK Gaming

    PK Gaming Pursuing My True Self
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    It's been a while since I last updated. i should consider passing this thread onto someone more active. anyway:

    =====
    update
    =====

    Metagross up from D-tier ==> C-tier

    Simple change today. Metagross gets a much needed rise because even if its outclassed by other more specialized Steel-types, it's stats + typing allow it to check some of the most powerful threats in the game (Dragon-types in general, and things like Tornadus-T). Placing it in D-tier was a mistake; It was inconceivable of me to place it so low because of my personal thoughts on it For whats it worth, I think the people advocating for Cobalion to rise have a half a point; it's a pretty good Pokemon. That said, placing it in the same tier as Gengar, Mamoswine, Landorus-T doesn't seem logical to me. This is more or less how I feel about Conkeldurr rising to B-tier; it's just not going to happen unless the metagame drastically changes. I haven't

    A couple of things to consider

    -Genesect's suspect test ends TODAY
    -If Genesect gets banned, expect this list to change radically

    That's all, have a nice day.
  9. ScraftyIsTheBest

    ScraftyIsTheBest Fletchinder FTW
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    Well, Metagross in C-Rank is well deserved. While Jirachi and Bronzong mostly outclass it, he's still strong from my past experience with him.

    That aside, I'd like to see Chansey moved down to D-Rank. Let's face it: Chansey is garbage. On paper it seems good thanks to Eviolite granting it massive bulk, but that means nothing when its offensive presence is zero. It does not have the benefit of Leftovers recovery, meaning that sand and hail wear it down with ease. It is very slow, and also weak to Fighting. It also provides free boosts for setup sweepers, because it is powerless. A truly terrible Pokemon who's gonna end up being more trouble than it's worth most of the time. It deserves D-Rank.
  10. Lady Alex

    Lady Alex This game sucks. Ban everything and it might not.

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    Oh, how far from the truth you are... The purpose of a wall is to, as the name suggests, wall, not to be an offensive threat. Still, Chansey does have seismic toss, which does a respectable 100 damage to anything that switches in.

    The lack of leftovers recovery is why Chansey is primarily seen on Rain or Sun teams, who can keep the weather in their favor.

    It doesn't matter if it's slow. There's nothing that it would even care to outspeed. If it walls a threat, being slower isn't going to hinder it at all, and if something threatens it, it's not going to stay in anyway. If you don't have a way to deal with those threats, Chansey/Blissey don't fit on your team, anyway.
  11. ClubbingSealCub

    ClubbingSealCub

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    While I don't like Chansey either, you're not giving it enough credit.

    Its bulk is higher than her fatter sister, and while having no leftovers sucks; the increase in overall bulk is worth it.

    For example:

    4 Atk Life Orb Tornadus-T Superpower vs. 4 HP / 252 Def Blissey: 445-525 (68.25 - 80.52%)
    4 Atk Life Orb Tornadus-T Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 299-354 (42.47 - 50.28%)

    0 Atk Life Orb Hydreigon Superpower vs. 4 HP / 252 Def Blissey: 463-546 (71.01 - 83.74%)
    0 Atk Life Orb Hydreigon Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 309-367 (43.89 - 52.13%)

    Chansey's bulk is so high that she can take rogue Superpowers from Hydreigon and Tornadus without risking being 2HKOed. Being able to just switch into Tornadus-T with little to no drawbacks is huge.
  12. alexwolf

    alexwolf King of Conquerors
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    Slowking should be C Rank. It has three very viable sets, the defensive, the TR, and the Specs set. It fares excellent against one of the most popular playstyle, rain offense, is a very good special wall, and has a certain level of versatility.

    With the TR set it can shield many offensive teams from the threat that is Scarf Keldeo, serve as a pivot for special attacks that it resists, and finally act as an ok late game sweeper, pretty similar to Reuniclus. It can even wallbreak if it uses NP.

    The defensive set on the other hand is capable of walling even the most powerful special attackers in OU, such as Specs Keldeo in rain, LO Lat@s, Tornadus-T, and Sheer Force Landorus, can preserve momentum unlike most walls due to Regenerator, and spread status like a boss with Scald and T-Wave. Its biggest downfall is its vulnerability to Pursuit trapping, which is why it belongs in C Tier.

    Finally the NP set can fire off immediatley powerful attacks, breaking through balanced and offensive teams with its coverage and even annoying stall teams due to Trick. It can also find plenty of switch-in opportunities due to its good natural bulk, the ability to invest in HP, and Regenerator, which allow it to serve as a defensive tool too.
  13. asterat

    asterat

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    Stoutland is definitely B material it can sweep most of the metagame with right support. It is also vulnerable to mach punch but it can sweep pretty much anything not superbulky (which it can often use coverage moves for). I would also put sandslash in D. It has a niche and can work but has horrible SpD and isn't that powerful. But as an offensive spinner for sand teams and a fast cleaner it pulls it weight.

    Also why is slowking so good in OU? What does it have that latias doesn't?
    Slowking has regenerator, nasty plot and scald
    Latias has levitate. With spikes and toxic spikes being common levitate is debateably better than regenerator, not to mention SpA landorus is handled much much better. Latias has dual screens, wish, healing wish, healing wish, better bulk and SpA, usable speed, thunder, surf, Draco meteor, also has thunder wave, roar (roar doesnt miss, dragon tail does). I understand it can check special attacking dragons but I think D rank is the correct place for it if any.
  14. Deluks917

    Deluks917 Ride on Shooting Star
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    I think Wobbuffet should be on here somewhere.
  15. StarmanXL

    StarmanXL

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    From what I can gather, C-rank pokemon are effective but outclassed while D-Ranked pokemon are the ones that are more or less completely ineffective/ From your arguments that would still make Slowking C-Rank.

    I'd say the one thing Slowking really has over Latias is the ability to run an offensive TR set, but that's not very popular and it's something you have to base your team around, admittedly. For what it's worth, Slowking does have Fireblast and a stronger Surf, I guess.
  16. alexwolf

    alexwolf King of Conquerors
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    Of 'course Latias is better in general, and this is the reason that it is in A rank. But Slowking definitely has some things that Latias doesn't, and those things are good enough to place it in C Rank imo. Slowking has a Steel and Ice resistance, a Dragon neutrality, better overall bulk (Latias has better natural special bulk, but usually runs speed so in practise Slowking is bulkier), Regenerator, Fire Blast, Trick Room and Nasty Plot. This means that Slowking can switch into special attacking dragons with ease, deal with Torn-T, counter Keldeo, Specs Politoed and some other special attackers that Latias can't. Latias can do those things too to an extend, except from switching into special Dragons, but she needs to waste a lot of time recovering and some of those pokes can easily get past her. For example Specs Politoed 2HKOes max HP Latias even after a CM. So does Tornadus-T if Latias wants to come into it. And against CM Keldeo, if you lack Roar, you can lose because Secret Sword targets Defense which means that after a few CM Keldeo will really put the hurt on you and maybe you won't be able to damage it quickly enough with your weak D-Pulses. But yeah the main perk of using Slowking over Latias as a special wall is to tank special dragon attacks, Scald, and to abuse the hell out of Regenerator.

    The OTR set is something that Latias can't do, and it doesn't need a whole team based around it, it is just a late game sweeper, pretty much like TR Reuniclus.

    Finally the Specs set has the advantages of being bulkier, having Fire Blast, STAB on Surf, and Regenerator, in addition to the Ice and Steel resistances and the Dragon neutrality, over Latias. These mean that Slowking isn't walled by Ferrothorn, Scizor, and Jirachi, even under rain, that Slowking in rain can spam a move as strong as Latias's DM (their SpA stats are practically the same as Slowking uses a +SpA nature) and that it can keep itself relatively health due to Regenerator.

    I don't really know about Stoutland. It is an ok revenge killer, and a decent cleaner, but Scarf Landorus outclasses it for the most part. Yeah Stoutland is a bit faster, but aside from that Landorus is superior as it functions outside of weather too, and has better STAB and U-turn, as well as better typing. I think C Rank is ok for him.
  17. Rayquaza_

    Rayquaza_

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    Actually there is a drawback, it's killing your momentum because Tornadus-T will most likely use U-Turn right after and something that can use Chansey as setup bait will come in, in the same turn she's most likely going to use Wish/Softboiled to heal herself.
    Because of this I find Chansey to be a very poor switch-in on any non-choiced Tornadus-T sets, even moreso if it has Taunt.

    Of course the same flaws apply to Blissey, but the point is to show that any mixed attacker that can take on Blissey, can take on Chansey just as easily.
  18. ScraftyIsTheBest

    ScraftyIsTheBest Fletchinder FTW
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    I've brought up Stoutland at least ten times before, but I'll give in my past arguments again. Stoutland is definitely an awesome Pokemon. With a lot of speed in sand plus amazing coverage, he's a force to be reckoned with. Great as both a revenge killer and a sweeper. Though C-Rank seems okay because Landorus-I is often deemed superior to the dog as a sand sweeper (Better STAB, less sand dependent)

    Not sure about Sandslash. It's an okay Pokemon in sand but Terrakion, Landorus, and Stoutland are all much better sand sweepers than him. It's still an okay Pokemon though. But it's no Excadrill when that thing was here. C or D seems right.
  19. ClubbingSealCub

    ClubbingSealCub

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    The argument of a quick U-turn stealing your momentum can be applied to pretty much everything, not just Chansey. Wether you like it or not, Chansey can still wall the special metagame (bar Keldeo) with her fatness.
  20. Wizarus

    Wizarus

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    Well since Genesect is banned from OU, a couple of things on here change. Espeon, Haxorus, and Slowbro can potentially be B-Tier, Scizor, Hydreigon, Gyarados, and IMO Skarmory could all be potential A-Tier pokemon, and Dugtrio might very well go down to C-Tier.
  21. RabidChipmunk

    RabidChipmunk

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    I don't think it was ever Genesect's fault Haxorus is C tier. Haxorus is almost completely outclassed by Kyurem-B, stealth rock weakness be damned. Cube is stronger, has an excellent ability to go mixed, and if you invest your EV's properly, he's very bulky too. They both spam absurdly powerful Outrages and they're both easily revenge killed afterwards, but Haxorus is weaker and less versatile. I say keep Haxorus C tier.
  22. Aerodactyl

    Aerodactyl

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    What about Chlorophyll like Exeggutor Sawsbuck and Victreebel? Id say D-Rank because all of the different weathers out there preventing them from performing well consistently, but under the sun they're all pretty deadly.
  23. typon77

    typon77

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    I agree and disagree with this. While Kyurem-B does CB arguably better, Haxorus still has plenty of roles that are more than niches. It has a better speed stat than Cube, which, while only 2 points higher, lets it revenge kill opposing Cubes. It also does scarf better, as Scarf lets Haxorus revenge base 95's consistently, which Cube can't due. Lastly, Haxorus has actual boosting moves. I would never use SD in this meta, but DD Haxorus is still a legitimate threat. Take down Levitating Steels (Although Rain+Aqua Tail can let you bet weakened ones) and faster scarers, and it can sweep fairly easily due to its not completely horrible physical bulk and only being 2x weak to Ice Shard. Kyurem-B is definitely better, as its stronger and can go mixed, but don't discount Haxorus. I'd probably say its a Low B-Tier, but I guess i won't complain with High C.

    Also, I'm tempted to advocate Dragonite up to S-Tier, but I'll hold off for now. It's been incredibly good, even with Genesect, and I feel like the SubDD set is excellent at taking advantage of rain teams.
  24. evillocke

    evillocke

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    With genesect gone, heatran should drop in usage, making duggy useless. C-tier duggy?
  25. TaBuu

    TaBuu

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    Ouch. That hurt. Heatran was only good for countering Genesect? I disagree my friend. Heatran had quite the usage statistics before the introduction to Genesect. In the August statistics, Heatran was in fact ranked 5th. After the introduction to Genesect he actually fell down to 6th (not huge but still).
    Heatran ,over the generations, has given itself a very good title and has solidified itself well into B2W2 OU, despite all the new Pokemon. For starters, Heatran was blessed with an amazing typing, a great ability, a versatile movepool, a plethora of ways that it could be used, and it was granted the unique fact that it is so easy to throw in Heatran (synergistically speaking). Heatran is part Steel a beautiful typing in terms of defense. Unlike many other Steels, Heatran was given quite a viable alternate STAB. With Fire Blast STAB, or Lava Plume or even Magma Storm, it was granted the ability to roast other Steel types, Grass Types, Ice Types and Bug Types. But there's more. Heatran has Flash Fire. It grants him a beautiful immunity allowing him to check a great number of Pokemon. Heatran has also gained the title of being a problem for Sun teams. Their Fire moves will only benefit Heatran, and with a respectable base Sp.Attk along with Sun+Flash Fire+STAB, Heatran will be doing massive damage to Sun teams. Heatran was not only used for Genesect. Heatran ended up being a pretty decent check to Tornadus-Therian, if it was in a range where Superpower or Focus Blast wouldn't kill. Heatran also gave trouble to Jirachi, Venusaur (w/o EQ), Dragonite (if it hasn't boosted or carries FP), Latios, Latias, so forth. Heatran also has the great ability for being able to trap other weather inducers. I could keep on going and going, but Heatran really is a great Pokemon, that has much more use than checking Genesect.
    Dugtrio won't drop much either, if at all. Dugtrio is used to trap and kill other weather inducers along with other troublesome Pokemon. The fact that Heatran will not drop after Genesect is gone, disproves your argument of Dugtrio falling because would fall.
    Just understand that Heatran was, is and will be for quite some time, a solid Pokemon in the OU tier.

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