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Gen 5 The OU Viability Ranking thread

Discussion in 'Ruins of Alph' started by PK Gaming, Oct 17, 2012.

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  1. youngjake93

    youngjake93

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    You can spam a move with the same base power as Hurricane, that doesn't mean that its a good move to spam..
    Hurricane is resisted by rock, steel, and electric. Electric pokemon aren't very bulky and hardly present in OU. SDef Rotom tries to be, but gets worn down over time. Rock and steel are weak to Focus Blast/Superpower/Heat Wave in the case of Tornadus-T.

    Thunder is resisted by Electric, Grass and Dragon. It also does zero damage to Ground and heals Volt Absorbers, boosts Lightningrod users and even boosts Cell Batter users(even though no one would use it). Your secondary option is HP Ice. It isn't scoring you any KOs on grass types as it sucks and grass types in OU have bulk. It isn't even SE against Electric, so that's a waste. So does it help against dragons? Well.. Dragonite has Multiscale+Espeed, Mence is always scarfed or +1, Lati@s lols at it, Garchomp outspeeds and comes out with zero damage if switched in on Thunder, and Kyurem-B+Kingdra don't care about HP Ice. Meh..... why is it that I can come up with a thousand ways to deal with something everyone thinks is a threat?


    Edit: Oh and Umbreon IS better than Chansey/Blissey. They have no offensive presence and mediocre support options. 350 HP wishes are overrated, that's like the average TOTAL HP for a Pokemon. What are you going to switch in your 1 HP Pokemon in on an obvious attack? Thunder Wave is decent, but hogs a moveslot. Toxic is bad in this fast-paced meta and Seismic Toss is a joke.
    Umbreon has Foul Play and Payback. The first of which usually doing a very nice hunk of damage. Synchronize is a great counter to status moves, IMO better than Natural Cure. Plus dat Heal Bell. Umbreon's typing actually gives it 2 resistances and an immunity for more switch-in potential. It has the benefit of having leftovers recovery and not being obliterated on the physical side. It just all around is a much nicer option.
  2. Halcyon.

    Halcyon. Come on, she's not burned; she's just gone.
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    You're talking about a Pokemon with base 145 special attack and speed that lets him outspeed Salamence, the pixies, Volcarona, etc. Do you know how ridiculously powerful that is? You mentioned Kyruem-B and Kingdra. Take a look at these:

    252+ SpA Life Orb Thundurus-T Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Kyurem-B: 442-523 (97.35 - 115.19%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

    252+ SpA Life Orb Thundurus-T Thunder vs. 36 HP / 0 SpD Kingdra: 317-374 (105.66 - 124.66%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    So Thundurus-T doesn't NEED HP Ice for those guys.

    I just typed the Modest Agility set into Honko's calculator's One vs All function. Wanna know what can wall him best? The poke that takes the LEAST damage from his attacks is Blissey, and here's how much he can do:

    252+ SpA Life Orb Thundurus-T Focus Blast vs. 4 HP / 252+ SpD Blissey: 237-281 (36.34 - 43.09%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock

    That's a special Pokemon getting a CLEAN 3HKO on BLISSEY, THE BIG BAD GRANDMA OF SPECIAL WALLS.

    Also, for the lulz...

    252+ SpA Life Orb Thundurus-T Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Umbreon: 244-289 (61.92 - 73.35%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

    It has a chance to OHKO Umbreon after SR and three layers of spikes...
    Jaiho likes this.
  3. RabidChipmunk

    RabidChipmunk

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    No... no, no it's really not.

    How is this even an argument? Latias boosts in the face of a lot of special attackers; that doesn't make Thundurus-T bad. And nothing coming off of base 145 SpA is "pitifully weak."

    Also:
    252 SpAtk Life Orb Thundurus-T (+SpAtk) Hidden Power Ice vs 252 HP/0 SpDef Latias: 52.2% - 60.99% (2 hits to KO after Stealth Rock)

    Might wanna be careful about switching Latias in on that, especially if Thundurus has already nabbed an Agility.
  4. Antihaxxer

    Antihaxxer

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    - Mamoswine @ Thick Fat
  5. Bent1ey

    Bent1ey

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    I suppose he doesn't count Lanturn and Seaking :p
  6. SHUCKLE MAN

    SHUCKLE MAN

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    Well, they do count, but them (and Magneton, Shedinja, etc.) are basically irrelevent in OU.
  7. Lord of Bays

    Lord of Bays

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    We're thinking more along the lines of OU-viable Pokémon.
  8. ClubbingSealCub

    ClubbingSealCub

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    Lanturn is perfectly viable in OU; it shits all over rain

    just check Jimbon's "Weird Fish" RMT.
  9. Vemane

    Vemane

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    Let's just take a moment to address this with a few analogies, shall we?

    Maybe if Mew didn't scream "I'm going to use TM (insert # here)" every time it came in, then it could be a threat.

    Maybe if Acreus didn't scream "I'm going to use Swords Dance or Extremespeed" every time it came in, then it could be a threat.

    Maybe if Terrakion didn't scream "I'm going to use close combat, or stone edge, or sub, or swords dance, or maybe even x-scizzor" every time it came in, then it could be a threat.

    Maybe if...
  10. blitzlefan

    blitzlefan I remember it all too well...
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    ummm... there's a reason why Blissey is OU and Umbreon is UU. I'm not just saying usage determines viability, but Blissey's ridiculous bulk makes it a very good poke. Furthermore, Blissey can come in and fuck with weaker scarf mons, as it takes piddly damage from a LOT of unboosted moves, forcing switches to rack up hazards damamge or stalling out choice locked PP. Don't hate on Blissey's wish either. Healing a recipient's HP to the max is extremely useful, as it gives set-up sweepers/revenge killers/people you NEED a second wind and a chance to regain momentum. Also, Blissey has a ridiculous support movepool (status, heal bell, SR) and it's a LOT better than Umbreon.
  11. Bent1ey

    Bent1ey

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    Those analogies are truly terrible :)
  12. youngjake93

    youngjake93

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    Terrakion was a horrible analogy... the others were bad too. For thunder, sub and boosting moves, it is as simple as switching in a resist, faster pokemon, or bulky pokemon to handle any of the situations. That's a whole lot of options. Terrakion can KO you with one of its attacks, predict the switch and KO that with the appropriate move, play safe against the switch with sub and hit with the appropriate powerful STAB, Terrakion has enough bulk+resists to actually rock polish/swords dance effectively, etc.

    Terrakion is a good pokemon that has the tools to be a threat in every situation. Thundurus-T is 'good' for one powerful STAB that has 70% accuracy outside of rain, has horrible coverage, and even does zero or -25% damage sometimes -_-

    The Mew comment was just retarded. Oh Mew is going to do a move or switch out, derr I know exactly how to react! No. The point was predictability and ease of dealing with it. Thundurus-T is predictable and easy to deal with. I don't care if it has 170 sAtt, its STAB is horrible and easy to play around, and has no bulk to make room for error.
  13. blitzlefan

    blitzlefan I remember it all too well...
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    Predictability isn't necessarily bad. Just look at the Torn-T ban thread. It's established that Torn-T is EXTREMELY predictable. (Hurricane, Hurricane, Hurricane, Hurricane, Hurricane.. oh SHIT a counter --> U-Turn). HOWEVER, it's still fairly difficult to counter. Jolteon is in the same boat. What's it got for coverage? Shadow ball? HP Ice? It's PROBABLY gonna use Thunderbolt/Thunder! HOWEVER, though predictable, it's VERY effective. Let's look at Kyurem-B. Very high Atk, fairly mediocre Spe. What's it gonna do? Obviously, spam Outrage. Would you expect anything else, really? Yes, you can send a Steel type, but it's still gonna get hammered by Outrage. Ever been swept by any of these pokes? Chances are, yes. Predictable, yes. As bad as you make it out to be, no.

    Obviously, Thundurus-T isn't the best pokemon in the OU metagame. In most aspects, it's inferior to its Incarnate counterpart. That doesn't make it a shitmon, honestly. It has it's uses in OU, or obviously it wouldn't be here. Maybe with the advent of Gen VI, it'll drop, but as for the moment, it's a fairly good poke.
  14. Halcyon.

    Halcyon. Come on, she's not burned; she's just gone.
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    Predictable=|=bad. As previously stated, there are plenty of predictable Pokemon out there that still demolish everything in their paths. Look at Blaziken! All he ever did was Protect->Swords Dance->Flare Blitz/High Jump Kick, but he was still broken.

    Plus, you keep saying that Electric is a bad STAB...in a metagame FILLED with rain teams that carry HUGE weaknesses to Thundurus-T. Look at the standard rain team: Politoed, Keldeo, Tornadus-T, Ferrothorn, Tentacruel, Dugtrio. First of all, most of those guys are weak to electric, and ALL of them are weak to any of Thundurus-T's coverage moves. How many other rain threats are there? Dragonite? KOed by HP Ice after Stealth Rock. Toxicroak? KOed by Thunder. Starmie? Please. Garchomp? KOed by HP Ice. Scizor? OHKOed by Thunder and can't do jack back to Thundurus. Gastrodon and Mamoswine are checks to him, but both are KOed by the appropriate coverage move, and neither can switch in on him unless they predict a Thunder correctly. Focus Blast knocks them both out of the park. Seriously, what more could you ask for in a Pokemon? Put him on your rain team to counter other rain teams (like I have)!
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  15. Super Mario Bro

    Super Mario Bro All we ever look for

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    The only reason Thundurus-T is "underwhelming" against most teams right now is because the meta is entirely based on speed creep. It can't outspeed Garchomp, Terrakion, Keldeo, Gengar, Tornadus-T, Starmie, etc, which hinders its offensive presence pretty significantly.

    In a slower, Gen IV-esque meta, I think Thundurus-T would be broken. It breaks walls like no other.
  16. lordkira

    lordkira

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    What do you guys think about Dragonite as of now?
    With Genesect gone, do you believe Dragonite has earned back significant amount of breathing space? I was just curious as some have deemed him to be a S-tier pokemon even when Genesect was around (though I'd disagreed then).
  17. Sacaen

    Sacaen

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    Multiscale is still easily broken by the omnipresent SR which alone keeps it A rank. But on top of that Dragonite has to worry about sand, hail, getting hit while switching in, and burns/paralysis if not lum berry'd. Mamoswine is still relatively common as is the multitude of steels that can make hurdles to jump through before dragonite can sweep. On top of this, Dragonite still has a very low base speed, and many times it needs to get 2 dragon dances to be able to ensure a sweep without some HP-Ice wielding scarfer coming in and ruining it's day, or really any other scarfed dragon because they all outspeed +1 dragonite.

    Not saying Dragonite is bad, it can still be very threatening and is a solid A tier pokemon thanks to being as bulky as it is (with the proper support), but multiscale being negated so easily and it's low base speed keep it from being S tier, genesect or not. Imo.
  18. LilOuOn

    LilOuOn

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    Check the post 1131, there i suggested Dnite for S Rank but no one responded lol, if you want to read and be with me check that post pls. There i explain the reasons why Dnite must be in S Rank
  19. Rayquaza_

    Rayquaza_

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    Dragonite isn't an S-rank pokemon for the mere fact that it's not something you can blindly slap on any team and expect it to work.
    It absolutely needs Multiscale to be intact when it switches in, else it's outclassed by the other dragons in a way or another.
  20. Bent1ey

    Bent1ey

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    Dragonite could be either a top A rank or a S rank, it really depends on how you rate it. You can play a powerful support set which sets it apart from other set up sweepers such as Volcarona, so the argument about how easy or not Multiscale its a bit reductive.
  21. Rayquaza_

    Rayquaza_

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    By "powerful support set" do you mean the Parashuffling one? Anything immune to Thunder Wave or any decent Sub user with enough bulk to withstand Dragon Tail doesn't care. Many good OU pokemon such as Mamoswine, Gliscor, Thundurus-T, Donphan and Jirachi effortlessly counter that set, so it certainly doesn't push it to S-rank status.
  22. Psycho Cut

    Psycho Cut

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    I think Conkeldurr should be moved up to B Tier, at least. It's an extremely powerful Pokémon with a great boosting move in Bulk Up. It has Mach Punch to bypass its low speed, Drain Punch as a powerful STAB which allows it to regain health, which is especially awesome in conjunction with Flame Orb damage and it has a choice of coverage moves for the last slot. Payback is a good option, allowing you to smash ghosts in the face and Ice Punch, a new gift from BW2, really expands Conk's coverage, allowing it, most importantly, to hit almost all flying types for SE Damage, most notably Dragonite, Landorus(-T), Salamence and Xatu. What's more is that it can be phenomenally bulky. With maximum investment in Specially Defence, Conk can actually survive numerous Special Attacks, even SE ones, and proceed to KO back. Finally, it has a fantastic ability in Guts, which not only boosts its attack to even more insane levels, but also allows it to act as an excellent status absorber, happily switching into Will-o-Wisps and even the dreaded Spore if its Flame Orb has already activated.

    I'd say its only main shortcoming it the fact it is destroyed by one of OU's most common threats, Tornadus-T, but even that won't be too hasty (pun not intended) to switch in, in fear of a SE Ice Punch.
  23. LilOuOn

    LilOuOn

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    Dragonite CAN sweep significant portions of the metagame with little support (a rapid spinner)

    As i showed, it can use multiple sets with effectiveness.
  24. LucaroarkZ

    LucaroarkZ

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    I would not go as far as to say Dragonite requires "little support". You need a spinner, sure, but you also have to get rid of Mamoswine (I guarantee you just running a spinner that can also check/counter Mamo is not enough) AND make sure damaging weather is not on the field (that or use Leftovers, but Lum Berry is far too beneficial to give up). In this metagame, you're going to have to run Dragonite on a Rain or Sun team or use Leftovers (the latter of which is a huge opportunity cost) in order to avoid Sand or Hail breaking Multiscale. This is ignoring Steel-types (Skarm/Forry/Ferrothorn/etc.) or really bulky Pokemon (i.e. Landorus-T) that can sponge Outrages, which only adds on to the support Dragonite needs. I would not define all of this support as "little support", and thus, Dragonite should not be S rank.
  25. LilOuOn

    LilOuOn

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    Finally! This is what i wanted, someone that can refuse what i say with real arguments. You are right, Dragonite needs great support in order to sweep but it is still one of the most powerful dragons there.
    IMO you only need the multiscale to set up a ddance the first turn, then it doesnt matter if the sandstorm breaks it cause +1 Dnite wrecks. Obviously you have to take care about ice shard and other priority users like scizor.
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