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Gen 5 The OU Viability Ranking thread

Discussion in 'Ruins of Alph' started by PK Gaming, Oct 17, 2012.

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  1. Takion

    Takion

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    I wonder what you all think about Mew for A rank? I understand its hardly used but its amazing how versatile it is. The NP set has amazing coverage, and after one NP it can one shot TTar with Aura Sphere, flamethrower a Ferro/scizor, psyshock the other mons. Not to mention its a great counter to jirachi because of its ability syncronize.

    What are your thoughts and opinions?
  2. BlackLight

    BlackLight

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    Its been discussed before, I think. While Mew is okay, something always outclasses it, no exceptions. Its good at being unpredictable, but team preview makes even that less useful, seeing as you want to fill roles you haven't already got. Seeing a lack of special attackers and Mew basically guarantees that Mew is special.
    At the end of the day, Azelf does the same set you listed above better with its higher speed and offences.
  3. Magcargo

    Magcargo Okay
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    This arguement will definetly cause people to hate me but I would like to nominate metagross for B rank. While it is often labeled "outclassed" by jirachi and bronzong, it has one major selling point. Raw power. Jirachi and bronzong don't have the best attacking stats and are walled by many things such as heatran and ferrothorn. Metagross can threatan them both with hammer arm. I've had much success using CB metagross in the rain. I however run different moves instead of the usual for coverage. I was able to 2HKO latios with Zen headbutt!
    Metagross may not be as effective as it used to be, but it still is a powerhouse. Also why is conkeldurr c rank
  4. Lord of Bays

    Lord of Bays

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    I'm seriously digging Choice Band Metagross, but the metagame is still too hostile for him to shine outside of random crazy niches.

    I know Conkeldurr saw a drop in usage because of Torn-T, but Tornadus-I hasn't been seen recently at all (I haven't) so he might need some retesting.
  5. Takion

    Takion

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    I just like to point out that metagross with ice punch after getting agility of is a huge counter to Gliscor and Landorus...however,I never really tested him so I wont say anything anymore...
  6. Magcargo

    Magcargo Okay
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    In that case, I would like to nominate conkeldurr for B Rank for a few reasons.
    1. Conkeldurr is the bulkiest fighting type in ou.
    2.Can set up Bulk ups on the likes of blissey.
    3. has the ability to check Terrakion (can tank a life orb non boosted close combat and use drain punch for a quick KO).
    4.A massive attack stat ensures that conkeldurr will dent the opponent.

    Also I would like to nominate lucario for C Rank. This may sound odd as lucario isn't that bad, but from my exprience, it just fails. Agilicario had low power while Swords dance lucario had low speed. Also thanks to its 70/70/70 defenses and a weakness to fighting, the amount of pokemon it can set up on are scarce.
  7. False Sense

    False Sense

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    I'd like to disagree with Lucario for C-Rank. Now, I don't really have anything to say about the agility set, but you mention that the Swords Dance set is slow. You realize that one of Lucario's main selling points is it's powerful priority, right? Once it gets a boost, which isn't too difficult thanks to it's great resistances and Justified, it can plow right through teams if their physical wall is gone. It can even run dual priority with Bullet Punch to get past things that resist/are immune to ExtreemSpeed. It is held back by it's frailness, I'll admit that, but that's why it's B-Rank. If it was bulkier it would have a solid shot at A-Rank.
  8. Magcargo

    Magcargo Okay
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    Extremespeed is resisted by common pokemon such as terrakion and gengar. Also better users of priority moves include scizor and breloom. Breloom can check pokemon such as terrakion while having a powerful bullet seed for bulky waters. Also, bullet punch lucario is comepletely walled by jellicent. The final nail in the coffin is that Fighting types and garchomp are pretty common in the meta, so lucario has a hard time getting up a swords dance.
  9. False Sense

    False Sense

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    I find it ironic that you contradict yourself there. You mention that Extreemspeed is resisted by common pokemon like Terrakion and Gengar, but you then mention how Bullet Punch Lucario is walled by Jellicent. In case you haven't noticed, Bullet Punch is pretty much there BECAUSE of Terrakion and Gengar. You know what else is walled by Jellicent? Keldeo, but he's being nominated for S-Rank.

    I'm gonna reiterate this, but Lucario has massive destructive potential if it can set up; the problem is just making sure certain walls are removed and getting a chance to set up. These flaws make it not quite cut for A-Rank, despite it's fantastic sweeping abilities. For this reason, it's put in B-Rank, which I think is quite suitable. C-Rank is just way too low for something with that great of sweeping potential.
  10. Magcargo

    Magcargo Okay
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    Well I guess your right about Lucario being a great sweeper and c rank being too low.
    Also i wouldn't say Keldeo should be S rank. It's stabs are amazing, but it get walled by jellicent, amoongus, D-nite etc. However I agree with Chomp being S rank. Chomp has a few common weaknesses but can prove to be highly effective as a sub + Swords dance user or even a wall. It can Function in any whether and only skarmovy and bronzong resist its STABs and can run fire blast to get past them. Finally it sit at a great speed tier. 102 speed means it can narrowly outpace top tier threats such as thundorous T, mence and landorous.
  11. Takion

    Takion

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    After Stealth Rock and a swords dance (which isnt very difficult to do) Lucario becomes one of the deadlist sweepers. OHKO Skarmory is no joke. Not to mention Jellicent, gliscor, L.T are really the only things that can effectively wall it...even a Hippodown (mixed wall) has no chance...

    2 252+ Atk Life Orb Lucario Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 4+ Def Hippowdon: 391-461 (93.09 - 109.76%) -- 93.75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

    I personally run crunch on Lucario as it easier for me to counter gengar and terrakion rather than Jellicent (which also gets OHKO with crunch).

    the Lati twins cant survive an ES either unless they are a bulkier build. If its anything, there should be more discussion on moving it up rather than down. However, L-therian, Gliscor, keep him at bay.
  12. Magcargo

    Magcargo Okay
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    I already discussed lucario staying in B-rank. Anyway, I woulk like to nominate heraboss for C Rank. While it is kept at bay by the many ground/flying types, it can be a powerful force. Scarf heracross can easily beat pokemon such as terrakion and tyranitar and begin snowballing moxie boost. It has night slash to deal with gengar and other ghost. Low speed and predictable moves are it's main faults, but heracross will often pull its wieght in the long run.
  13. Lavos Spawn

    Lavos Spawn
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    i'm not about to take a position on lucario to distinguish whether it should be a rank or b rank, but i'd just like to say that there's no way lucario should even be considered for c rank. it is one of the most potent sweepers bw has to offer, with above-average speed, incredible fighting stab in close combat, great typing that allows it to set up easily, and a surprisingly deep movepool that includes nifty coverage moves such as ice punch and crunch, as well as two excellent priority options in extremespeed and bullet punch. depending on what set it runs, nothing is safe from this metal monster, besides max/max+ hippowdon and sometimes slowbro. with a little residual damage on key opposing pokemon and a swords dance under its belt, lucario is capable of taking out entire teams with ease. its power should not be underestimated by any means.
  14. oSeasons

    oSeasons
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    Lucario is extremely underated.. with SD up, if you don't have full knowledge of its move set, you could easily be swept late game :x Some players run both extreme speed AND bullet punch which can catch many people off guard. You send out terrakion thinking that you can outspeed lucario and kill it but it proceeds with bullet punching you to the face :<
  15. Super Mario Bro

    Super Mario Bro All we ever look for

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    Yea, it's very hard to outright counter Lucario with anything...though, Jellicent is a pretty safe bet these days, since they've been drifting away from Crunch from what I've noticed. Luke is also flexible outside of purely sweeping, since he's able to revenge weakened sweepers with Extremespeed, like DD Dragonite.

    Mid-High B rank seems like the right place for him.
  16. MX42

    MX42

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    Nominating Roserade and Frosslass for C rank.


    With the suspecting of Deo-D, Hyper offense teams are looking for a substitute, and these two fit the bill perfectly. Both of them are fast, can hit decently offensively, and can set up spikes rather easily. Roserade has Toxic Spikes and better special defense, while Frosslass has a better typing in this metagame, higher speed, and can spinblock. However, both are weak to incredibly powerful offensive types, such as rock, fire, and ice...
  17. Dark Fallen Angel

    Dark Fallen Angel FIDDLESTICKS IS ALSO GOOD ON MID!

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    Lucario is in no way C-Tier. It is not the best sweeper, but is one of the deadliest. Good luck trying to find something that can tank a Swords Dance-boosted Extremespeed that is sufficiently fast to not be defeated by Close Combat AND can OHKO back. This is one of the main reasons why I like to use fast, bulky sweepers.

    Also, those who say that Extremespeed is resisted by so many Pokémon forgot that both Mach Punch and Bullet Punch are resisted by even more faster Pokémon. Steel-type is already an awful offensive typing by itself, and Fighting is a type that tends to be resisted by fast Pokémon, but not by slower ones. Extremespeed does not have these problems. Also, both Mach Punch and Bullet Punch can be bypassed by another priority move if the foe is faster. Extremespeed doesn't have this problem; no priority move has higher priority than Extremespeed.
  18. lolazo

    lolazo

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    no durant T.T i do a post of durant in C tier and no attention for this :(

    and keldeo in S is no-brainer he only need rain, pursuit or goth support and kills everything with stabs and hp coverage

    i nominated raikou in c tier, please with torn-t in ubers is better than jolteon, jolteon advantages are volt absorb and outspeed... alakazam and duggy but raikou had better bulk, calm mind and the use of event moves like aura sphere and weather ball

    and suicune in b-c tier, crocune is soo good and can sweep easily thanks his good bulk and excelent check/counter for terrakion, keldeo, some versions of jirachi, lando, politoed, ttar and other threats, resttalk is great for he and scald burn is awesome
  19. Deglas

    Deglas

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    I agree with Froslass for C rank. It is a useful Spiker, and Cursed Body+Focus Sash can render some things useless against it, giving it another turn of Spikes. (example: Terrakion uses Stone Edge to take Froslass down to the Sash, Cursed Body activates, Terrakion is forced out because SE is disabled and CC does no damage). Froslass also has good STABs and usable SpA, letting it beat certain things with a more offensive Spiker set. Shadow Ball can be used to 3HKO speedy Deo-D, and also breaks through Magic Bounce Pokemon and Starmie, Ice Beam beats Donphan, and HP Fire can take down Forretress (as well as luring things like Scizor for a KO). It can just set Spikes in Tentacruel's face, as it is immune to Rapid Spin and Tentacruel cannot hit Froslass that hard (uninvested Scald vs. uninvested Froslass is only a 3HKO!). Froslass also benefits from the threat of a fast Taunt or Destiny Bond, leaving the opponent pressured as to what attack they should use.
  20. Magcargo

    Magcargo Okay
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    Nobody listened to me agreeing about lucario being b rank.
    I thnk that these two pokemon should instead be B-rank. They are faster and more powerful than deo-d while trading in some bulk. It's a good idea to run focus sash on both of them. Roserade can hadle leads like ttar while frosslass can spinblock.
  21. BlackLight

    BlackLight

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    Roserade is pretty good, its typing helps it out with taking on Keldeo, it has access to Sleep Powder, which is nice, it can lay both kinds of Spikes, and it has good power and a usable offensive movepool. It is, however, somewhat frail physically, its typing is a mixed blessing, and Sleep Powder isn't Spore by any means. I'm okay with it being C-Rank, but I feel B-Rank is pushing it a bit. B-Rank

    Froslass has the niche of Spikes, Spinblocking, and Speed, and it has options like Destiny Bond and Thunderwave to mess people over, as well as Cursed Body, which can be insanely annoying. That's it, though. It makes for one hell of a shaky spinblocker, seeing as it has rather thin defenses and lacking offenses, meaning that it doesn't inhibit many things from switching in on it. Its defensive typing, put bluntly, sucks, and its ability doesn't help it much when it gets one shotted by many, many things. I'd put it in D-Rank, maaybe a low C-Rank at best. It has a very small niche, but it can be used if you need both hazards and a spin blocker at the same time.

    While I'm at it, I'd like to see Toxicroak drop to C-Tier. Toxicroak has two sets you will see, SD and SubPunch, which are both doing the same thing. It has really mediocre stats, and its typing has some interesting resists, but brings a couple huge weaknesses to the table. It can only be used in rain, due to its ability Dry Skin, which is good, but not enough, imo, to make it worth using Croak. It also faces competition from Lucario and Breloom, too, who are usable on a larger number of teams, and have many advantages over Toxicroak. I wanna hear your opinions on it, though. Thoughts?

    EDIT: Almost forgot this, Toxicroak is supposed to be able to counter Keldeo with its typing and ability, but...
    252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Toxicroak: 147-174 (47.88 - 56.67%) -- 0.39% chance to 2HKO after weather (rain)
    That is one hell of a shaky counter if it can get 2HKOed by a STAB attack. That's ignoring all entry hazards and prior damage, too.
  22. Magcargo

    Magcargo Okay
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    I gues your right about b rank being a bit too high.However toxicroak should stay in B Rank. While it only functions effectively in rain, it can wreck havoc with it's sub+bulk up set. I used to think it was bad too, until I almost got swept by croak. It has a pretty good defensive typing and can switch in to most water types and wall them. Toxicroak also has sucker punch, meaning it can achieve perfect coverage.
  23. Lavos Spawn

    Lavos Spawn
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    roserade is definitely deserving of c tier seeing as it's basically a subpar celebi. as the op states as the definition of a c tier pokemon, "Reserved for Pokemon who can be effective given the right support, but either have crippling flaws that prevent them from consistently executing their strategy or are completely eclipsed by a Pokemon in the above ranks." roserade certainly falls under this category, as it's eclipsed by celebi in almost every category. celebi is faster, has better all-around bulk, a greater movepool, more reliable recovery, and more versatility in sets (sdef, defensive, baton pass, nasty plot, etc.) whereas roserade can only really run a sdef hazard layer set. speaking of hazards, that is the one semi-advantage that roserade has over celebi: it has access to spikes and toxic spikes, whereas celebi only has rocks (although rocks are arguably better than both hazards combined, hence the "semi-advantage").

    froslass is a completely different story. i've tried and tried, and i still don't see a niche for this thing in the ou tier. without snow cloak legal anymore, its only viable set is a lead sasher that essentially spikes up, attempts to catch something with destiny bond, and then dies. one of the major flaws of this set is that it's completely beaten by any variant of tyranitar. ttar uses crunch as froslass gets a layer of spikes and is brought down to its sash, then sand finishes it off. froslass can't even use destiny bond, because when weather kills you, destiny bond won't activate even if the pokemon bonded to is the weather inducer in question. it also has literally no offensive presence, with a measly base special attack of 80 and a movepool consisting of ice beam, shadow ball, thunderbolt, and not much else. and with defenses of 70 / 70 / 70, plus a weakness to steel, it can't even act as a decent spinblocker. there is no place for froslass in ou.
  24. Magcargo

    Magcargo Okay
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    Frosslass seems like a D rank pokemon. It can spinblock and set up spike, but nothing more. As the definition says, it has a small niche, but can be more trouble than it's worth.
    Also, I Think that scolipede and Accelgor should be added to C rank. They can threaten Ttar leads while preforming thier duties properly. The also can preform much more like Baton pass and Choice specs and have pretty good speed. Being able to outspeed Lati@s is an incredible feet. However they both lack bulk and their power may be underwhelming at times.

  25. Darkmalice

    Darkmalice Like a facepalm, but better
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    Spikes, Tspikes, and Sleep Powder are big perks that Roserade has and Celebi doesn't. It also can be used as a Tspike counter, where as Celebi hates Tspikes. Whilst Celebi does get SR, it shouldn't be hard to fit rocks onto another member of your team given how widespread it is. Spikes, Tspikes and sleep are harder to do so. I wouldn't conclude that Roserade is "completely eclipsed by a Pokemon in the above ranks." Rather, the B rank definition is more fitting: "Pokemon who are partially outclassed by a Pokemon in A or S Rank, but are otherwise very dangerous, may also fall into this category."
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