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Gen 5 The OU Viability Ranking thread

Discussion in 'Ruins of Alph' started by PK Gaming, Oct 17, 2012.

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  1. Ojama

    Ojama Are you watching closely...
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    Celebi is better than Roserade without a doubt. Celebi gets Recover, has higher HP, better Defense and they almost have the same SDef (100 vs 105). Celebi has a ground resistance which Roserade doesn't have which means Roserade can't counter Landorus-I at all what Celebi is able to do if it doesn't run U-Turn. Toxic Spikes is obviously a real important Move and will always be but both Tentacruel and Venusaur are often used. Roserade can't even counter Keldeo since it is 2HKO'd by Secret Sword or IcyWind/HP Ice what Celebi is able to if Keldeo doesn't carry HP Bug. Also if you run Rest on Roserade that means you don't have either Sleep Powder or HP Fire which makes you more weak to Skarmory, Ferrothorn, Scizor etc.

    Celebi is definitely better than Roserade and I'm not even sure if Roserade should be B Rank.

    Agreeing with moving Gengar up to A-Rank. Gengar is extremely good in the current Metagame and will always be an amazing Pokemon. The SubSplit Set is absolutely horrible to face and is really hard to take down. It is faster than Keldeo and Terrakion and it has a useful Fighting Immunity. It is also the best Spin Blocker in OU so yeah I really think it should be A-Rank.
  2. ElectivireRocks

    ElectivireRocks Banned deucer.

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    Gengar is A-rank for sure but I diasagree with it being the best spinblocker since Starmie outspeeds and easily OHKOs it with Psyshock or water STAB in the rain.
    Jellicent is the premier spinblocker in OU.
  3. dcae

    dcae naughty list

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    SpD Jelly, its best set, easily beats Starmie. The set that beats Jelly every time is Tentacruel"s SubToxic set.

    I also think that Gengar should be A rank, it is the best offensive spinblocker in OU, and it's sets can troll the opposition pretty hard. Imo Reuni should stay where it is, but Gyarados should come up. Thanks to its typing, it checks both Landorus I and Keldeo, while providing a sweeping option. If Ferro didnt exist it would already be more used, but imo is an A rank poke in the current meta.
  4. Memphis Grizzly

    Memphis Grizzly

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    By Starmie using Thunder you are implying it will always be run on Rain teams. Which is not always the case, even so Specially Defensive Jellicent can take a Thunder and threaten to KO with Shadow Ball.
  5. Takion

    Takion

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    252 SpA Life Orb Starmie Thunder vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Jellicent: 198-234 (49 - 57.92%) -- 57.81% chance to 2HKO

    0 SpA Jellicent Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Starmie: 170-204 (65.13 - 78.16%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    Considering Jellicent has leftovers, it would be extremely hard for it to be 2HKO. It is more likely the Jelly will take out Starmie first.
  6. BurningMan

    BurningMan fueled by beer

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    Almost no Starmie runs Thunder anymore most run Psyshock nowadays to more reliably check Keldeo (plus a second Stab is always great) and SDef Jellicent got a 89% chance to get 2HKOd by Psyshock after SR.

    However i don't really think SDef Jellicent is very good it is just too frail on the physical side without significant EV investment wich cuts down the number of thinks it can check significantly.
  7. dcae

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    Thunder is absent on Starmie nowadays. Even LO Thunderbolt is getting rare nowadays. Tenta does beat Jelly, but Jelly is still the Betsy spinblocker in OU, because Gengar is too frail to survive and gets OHKOd by Starmie, as well as getting stalled out by Tenta. This actually just backs Tenta as the hands down best spinner in the tier, but that was already implemented.

    Regarding SpD Jelly, imo it is the best set on stall and semi stall teams. More balanced teams that don't have enough walls to employ SpD walls only. Mixed defensive Jelly tends to be better on balanced teams,but imo Jelly is better off capitalizing on its amazing SpD bulk.

    Jelly is imo the best spinblocker in OU, but Gengar outclasses him on more offensive teams, where constant pressure damages spinners and allows Gengar to have an easier time. The choice of spinblocker honestly depends on the team, but I still believe Jelly has an easier time against the spinners of OU.
  8. victinivcreate1

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    Th JelliThorn core can reliably beat Tentacruel if it is paried with Landorus-I. Landy also handles the cores other problems, like Virizion and Breloom.
  9. False Sense

    False Sense

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    You know, with all this talk about Jellicent and how it's arguably the best spin blocker in the tier, I'm surprised that no one has suggested Jellicent be moved up to A-Rank. I think it's been suggested a few pages back, and I think there's good reason to do it. What does everyone else think?
  10. kakuna

    kakuna

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    As pokemon has evolved over time, entry hazads have become stupidly common in it. If you ask me building an OU team without entry hazards and rapid spin is a bad idea. So how do you counter all of this hazard craziness? You use a ghost type to protect your hazards. Gengar has been the best OU ghost since the beginning of pokemon and definitely deserves A rank for that achievement. Gengar is also extremely powerful and has flawless coverage. As its usage suggests, gengar belongs in the A rank. Jellicent is the best defensive stallbreaker available in OU, and is much more bulk than gengar. Jellicent does however have access to a water typing, recover, and good bulk. However I think Jellicent should move to A as well because it helps to wall top threats like keldeo, politoed, and many others. Building a stall team without jellicent is also pretty dumb, it is an absolute staple.
  11. dcae

    dcae naughty list

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    Wau I thought Jellicent had been moved up! It is definitely a Stall team staple, being as I stated before the spinblocker that beats the most spinners. It also has amazing Special bulk and an excellent ability granting it the unique trait to completely shut down Keldeo. The SpD set as well can take on Landorus I very easily, something not many pokemon can boast. It is an A rank pokemon definitely in my eyes, and should be moved up thanks to its omnipresence on Stall and Semi-Stall.
  12. False Sense

    False Sense

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    Well, Icecream, how common something is does kind of impact viability. In fact, it plays quite a large role. For example, Rain is very common nowadays, so most people often pack numerous rain checks, and things neutered by Rain have become less viable. Infernape is a prime example, since it has become less potent due to Rains omnipresence, and it's viability dropped as a result. Similar cases can be made for things like how Scizors high usage makes being pursuit weak a serious issue.
  13. False Sense

    False Sense

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    Very true; I didn't mean to imply that at all. Underused things can actually be great. But since it's not common, it's usually not something you need to prepare for. Going back to my Infernape example, nowadays it's used much less because of Rain. As a result, most people don't take it into account when building teams, or at least, they don't account for it as much as before. It COULD be a threat, but since it isn't used much, people don't need to account for it. The thing is, if something isn't common, then it doesn't affect the viability of other pokemon.
  14. Magcargo

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    First off, reuniclus is only truly walled by a few pokemon (Metagross, Jirachi and bronzong). Jirachi, metagross that run EQ and bronzong can all be handled by air balloon heatran. The rest of the tier is smashed by its power and "speed" in Trick room. Gyarados can outspeed the entire unboosted metagame after a DD and while the SR weakness hurts, other A-Rankers like salamence and kyurem share this weakness. Gyarados's typng also allows it to be the best offensive special landorus and keldeo check, as well as a great check to breloom (after sleep clause has been activated).
  15. TUO

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    That's pretty much a lot of the ideas going for Weavile in B-Rank. It is not the perfect Dragon-slayer like Mamoswine is but Pursuit trapping support AND the ability to handle Dragons is invaluable in the current meta and gives a lot of offensive utility. Weavile for B-Rank definitely.
  16. Lord of Bays

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    I would like to raise a point about Mamoswine vs. Weavile as the "perfect Dragon slayer". Exhibit A: Lati@s. Yes, Mamoswine's Ice Shard hurts like a bitch, but it won't always KO, and if you don't have hazards down a Latios at 15% is still a Latios that can run train on your team. LO Ice Punch, however, always OHKOs, as does Pursuit on the switch. Mamoswine doesn't have Pursuit. Latias is typically slightly more bulky, but the same roughly applies.

    Exhibit B: Kyurem(-B). Once again, both formes outspeed Mamoswine, but this time they are MUCH bulkier as well as neutral to Ice Shard, so Mamoswine's only real options are Earthquake, Stone Edge, and Superpower. Anyone who's faced down Kyurem's Draco and Kyurem-B's Outrage without a resist knows how unpleasant it can be. Weavile outspeeds and absolutely crushes them with Low Kick.

    Against Dragons that are 4x weak to Ice, Mamoswine > Weavile. Against the rest, well, I'd say that they're damn near equal, if Weavile isn't outright better.
  17. Memphis Grizzly

    Memphis Grizzly

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    Weavile is B Rank material but not A, it's frailty and Stealth Rock weakness really drop against it. Not to mention the abundance of Fighting types roaming in OU. Mach Punch is a quick and easy answer to it. Scizor also is King of OU usage, which Weavile can do nothing against it, but Low Kick on the switch. Yea it's Stabs are amazing, but still only niche amazing. Most Steels can easily shrug a non-stabbed Low Kick and KO.
  18. Magcargo

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    Unlike mamoswine, weavile is bait for scizor, CS fighting types and conkeldurr. Weavile also has a SR weakness meaning that it cannot swith in and out. Its so frail, that it can only come in after something has died, or it will get OHKO'd. While I do agree its low B-Rank, it will cannot be A-Rank or top B-Rank because of low base power moves, common weakness and low defenses.
  19. G-Von

    G-Von

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    @tabuu

    Do you know who else can? Scizor, scarfed magneton, and scarfTar. T-tar and scizor are already a-rank but magneton isnt even ranked. Thing is, scizor and Tyranitar arent SR weak and can fulfill other roles, too. Weavile, unlike the other offensive/revenge killer/trappers, is also too frail and couldnt handle a sneeze. Keep Weavile c-rank
  20. Memphis Grizzly

    Memphis Grizzly

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    True in every word, though both of the other have better typing, abilities, utility, and just right diversity.
  21. Magcargo

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    Scizor and mamoswine can check most of those pokemon, while having the ability to switch in to attacks. It doesn't deserve C-Rank at all, but rather low B-rank. Stuff like toxicroak, keldeo and scizor wall this guy all day, especially when his main STAB move is weaker than E-vire's T-punch. Also Breloom can take an ice shard and KO with mach punch.
  22. Alter

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    I think this fits Weavile quite perfectly. It does have very good uses, as already mentioned, in being able to destroy a large number of threats with the valuable Ice Shard as well as being able to support a varity of mons (Landorus, Keldeo, etc.) with its Pursuit. Weavile is arguably outclassed by a few Pokemon which are broken into two categories: the dragon-slayers and the trappers. Mamoswine supposedly is a lot better than Weavile due to its Ice-type attacking and Pursuit mons like Tyranitar and Scizor and supposedly better at Weavile at trapping Ghosts and Psychics. What Weavile does possess, however, that they don't, is the ability to do both of these roles at once. It can also run a variety of sets such as Choiced of LO'd as well as being able to use Expert Belt very well due to its moves to feign a Choice set. Easily B rank material.
  23. Worldtour

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    Mamoswine is capable of checking literally all of them except for Gengar, Terrakion, Alakazam, and Jellicient. Another problem occurs when you realize that Gengar behind a Substitute beats it (considering they all run subs generally it is easy to get one up on the switch), Scarf Terrakion or a boosted one destroys Weavile and OHKOs it with literally every move it has, Jellicient can take a Night Slash and burn Weavile, and Sash Alakazam has an easy time with Weavile, assuming Focus Miss hits. It can't reliably stop any of those 4, really. Against random targets, Icicle Crash and Earthquake are stronger than what Weavile has for STABs.

    I see Weavile as a more reliable way to trap Latias, Celebi (although Thunder Wave is irritating) Latios, and Starmie, and it is a good user of Pursuit. It's high speed also allows it to check healthier versions easier than Swine, but it otherwise is lacking a bit in power, is stopped by status, is weak to Stealth Rock, and is difficult (impossible) to switch in. Weavile is a niche Pokemon, and deserves to stay C.

    EDIT: I also want to say that Pursuit isn't that excellent of a move anymore. Only 2 Ghosts and around 6 Psychic types seen in OU ars actually weak to Dark, and most of them can play around predicted Pursuits and dent or KO Weavile.
  24. blunder

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    keep weav in c

    will update post in a bit w/ reasoning
  25. Gary2346

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    I've been using Focus Sash Alakazam lately, and I can see why PK moved Alakazam up to A-Rank. He puts so much offensive pressure on teams it's not even funny, out speeding half the tier and packing a lot of power is something that most people should fear. With a Focus Sash, it basically makes him one of the greatest revenge killers in the tier, and lets him take at least two free hits before going down. As long as Zam is still around, sweepers such as Scizor and Lucario will never be able to get that far, due to Zam's Focus Sash he can take a free priority move and deal back the pain with HP Fire or Focus Blast. It's so useful to be able to out speed dangerous things such as Starmie, Terrakion, and Latios, while not having to worry about going down in one hit. Seriously though, people need to use Alakazam more often. He's defnitely not fit for every team, but if you need a revenge killer with access to a Psychic type move and great coverage, then Alakazam is about as good as it gets.
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