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Gen 5 The OU Viability Ranking thread

Discussion in 'Ruins of Alph' started by PK Gaming, Oct 17, 2012.

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  1. G-Von

    G-Von

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    As madcargo said, Scizor and Mamo can take care of most of these threats as it is. Weavile requires too much support for my liking to be in B-tier, although I guess I understand people's opinions on him moving up a tier. I simply disagree since it can't take a hit and needs rapid spin support or a Magic Bouncer to keep SR off the field so that it's sash isn't broken.
  2. Memphis Grizzly

    Memphis Grizzly

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    [​IMG]


    B Ranking Material

    • Extremely useful niche stabs, hitting 15 of 30 in S/ A ranking.
    • Outspeeds all base 108 that roam OU.
    • Checks Landorus the most potent sweeper.
    • Is outclassed by Mamoswine and usually set up bait for defensive pokemon that keep it in below A ranking..
  3. Revontheus

    Revontheus

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    I agree with Issues, Weavile is B-rank material.
  4. dcae

    dcae naughty list

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    I also think Wea vile is B rank material, due to the reasons mentioned above. Weavile has godly speed and a good attack stat, paired with great STAB. It is let down by a lack of bulk and weakness to common priority moves, but it has a useful niche and checks almost all the boosting dragons in the tier, while also providing Pursuit support. Imo it has its flaws, but also its strengths, and should be placed in B rank.
  5. ElectivireRocks

    ElectivireRocks Banned deucer.

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    Mamoswine doesn't entirely outclass Weavile since other than dragons and Landorus they're used to check different things.
    Mamoswine deals with grounded steel types like Heatran, while Weavile takes care of psychic and ghost types like Genagr and Starmie, something Mamoswine can't do.
    Anyway I agree with Weavile being B-rank.
  6. alexwolf

    alexwolf Rain Summoner
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    I am a little skeptical about Weavile for B rank, but i can easily see her being bottom B rank. Weavile is a very good Pokemon for every kind of offensive team, be it rain offense, sun offense, or weatherless offense (don't know about sand offense, have never used it there but LO + sand may prove to be too much for Weavile to handle). It differentiates itself from Mamoswine by being able to Pursuit trap certain annoying Pokemon, such as Celebi, Starmie, Gengar, and Lati@s, all prevalent threats that stop many Pokemon from sweeping. It can also outspeed and OHKO all of them, unlike Mamoswine, and more Pokemon that Mamoswine can't, such as Terrakion, Hydreigon (healthy Hydreigon avoids the KO from Ice Shard), Kyurem-B, and Alakazam. The combination of Ice Shard + Night Slash + Pursuit is very nice for an offensive Pokemon and lets it deal with an array of Pokemon that are problematic for offensive teams. This gives her a very important niche that justifies her placement on B rank imo. So i agree with Weavile for B rank.


    Next, i would like to propose Gyarados for A rank. It has been a very underrated threat for a long of time and this has started changing the few past weeks due to the popularity of Sheer Force Landorus. Unlike what most people think, Gyarados doesn't need a lot of support. Just give it Politoed and you are fine. While it is true that it needs Rapid Spin support too, most rain teams use Starmie or Tentacruel anyway because they are very good Pokemon that are worth putting in most rain teams. So even if Gyarados forces rain teams to use Starmie or Tentacruel, i don't see the disadvantage of using two of the best Pokemon in OU.

    Now let's talk about his offensive potential. Yesterday i took offensive Gyarados for a spin, with a set of DD / Waterfall / Ice Fang / Double Edge, max Atk / max HP with an Adamant nature, Intimidate and with Life Orb, and honestly i was shocked... This thing was amazing! It could either be used as a mid-game sweeper, getting a few OHKOes and softening the opponent's team, or as a late game sweeper if the opponent lacked Pokemon that could outspeed Gyarados and threaten it (for example every team that uses Scarf Jirachi). The great thing about it is that it gets so many set-up opportunities due to its great typing and bulk and it becomes so lethal after just one turn, while the only things that really trouble it are Ferrothorn, Jellicent, and Scarf users. For example, it can easily set-up on Scizor, Heatran, Choice Terrakion locked into anything but Stone Edge, HP Ice Landorus-T, Sheer Force Landorus, and Volcarona out of Pokemon in the top 20, and a bit more Pokemon depending on the circumstances. Also with Intimidate and Ice Fang, Gyarados can act as a last minute answer to Outraging Dragons, something every team appreciates.

    As for the bulky DD set, it is another monster. Gets even more set-up opportunities due to Sub and the added bulk, is even harder to revenge kill due to Sub, but is easier to wall in comparison with the offensive set, but still stupidly hard to stop and if you lack Thunderbolt Rotom-W, Thunder bulky Starmie, or Ferrothorn then you can be sure that this thing will be a pain to your team.

    So all in all, Gyarados is a very good set-up sweeper that finds plenty set-up chances, is very difficult to stop after just one boost, has very few counters, and doesn't need a lot of support to function (basically only Politoed, as 90% of rain teams have a spinner anyway).
  7. Hemp Man

    Hemp Man

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    Yeah Double-Edge is really underrated on Gyarados, a +1 Life Orb Double-Edge ruins Rotom-W. The Recoil is a massive pain, but Gyarados is usually good at blowing holes in the foes team.
  8. TaBuu

    TaBuu

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    Bringing it back! I too had argued earlier for A-Rank Gyarados and I still feel he can make it to A-Rank. His dominance in Rain , Weatherless or even Sand is a huge plus. His typing is phenominal both offensively and defensively. With Moxie and Intimidate, along with Dragon Dance, Gyarados is a deadly set-up sweeper. Despite his immense hatred towards Stealth Rock, residual damage and Drought teams, Gyarados is more than capable of sweeping the OU Metagame.
  9. dcae

    dcae naughty list

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    I'd like to argue Sharpedo for B rank. Having used the shark on quite a lot of my teams, I can safely say that it is absolutely deadly late game. With its Water STAB being boosted by LO, not many things can safely take it on. It is held back by its frailty and need to remove certain threats. Sharpedo cannot break through Ferrothorn and certain bulky waters, as well as Breloom. However, late game, when these things are weakened or gone, it can rip through the rest of the team like a knife through hot butter, speeding up each turn and becoming only revengeable by use of priority after merely two turns. 120 Atk is nothing to scoff at, and most Sharpedo run LO, which boosts its power dramatically. Add in the omnipresence of rain, and Sharpedo can have its Water STAB boosted even higher. Notice also Sharpedo's decent SpA stat, which allows it to successfully employ a mixed set or fully special set to trip up its normal checks and some counters. I have used it to success on a few teams in OU, and it has its flaws despite those great bonuses. It is flawed for several reasons. First and foremost, its frailty allows it to be eliminated by Mach Punch and Extremespeed from CB Dnite. If it gets under 50%, I believe Bullet Punch from Band Scizor can also take it out. Another problem is if it chooses to go physical, its STAB moves have low BP. If it goes special, it has a lower stat starting off with. The final flaw is that it must sweep late game, because if the opposing pokemon aren't weakened and its checks/counters aren't eliminated or weakened, Sharpedo's cleanup will be cut short. These flaws, however, are easily dealt with, and justify it getting placed into B rank, albeit a lower position than some of the other pokemon in B rank. However, I feel like it is too good in the current OU to dwell in C rank.
  10. Pikachuu

    Pikachuu

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    I'd like to propose Feraligatr for C-rank or low B-rank. Feraligatr has a niche in OU. It's a monster under rain and a great sweeper with rain boosted Aqua Jet. It's pretty hard to stop at +2. Landorus, Thundurus-T, Tornadus, Gengar, Jolteon, Terrakion and many faster threats all fall to Aqua Jet. To show just how powerful Feraligatr is it does 82.78% - 97.68% to Latios with a +2 Drizzle and Torrent boosted Aqua Jet so it has a pretty good chance of being OHKO'd after Stealth Rock. It has just the right bulk as well so it often goes into Torrent mode. Feraligatr also laughs at physical walls like Skarmory, Landorus-T, Hippowdon and Gliscor. That's something that can't be ignored. Thoughts?
  11. The Unlucky one

    The Unlucky one

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    Yeah just a combination of arguments for Feraligatr. Any thoughts on it?
  12. Chou Toshio

    Chou Toshio @Fighting Necktie
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    Without Sheer Force I still see basically no reason to use Feraligatr over one of Gyarados / Dragonite / Salamence / Garchomp

    I mean Aqua Jet is cool, but Feraligatr has no consistent way to get down to Torrent-- and it has major 4 slot syndrom. It needs both Aqua Jet and Waterfall to be worth a mention, but then throw in SD and you only get 1 boosting move. ><
  13. Lord of Bays

    Lord of Bays

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    That Aqua Jet calc is also straight-up false.

    Honko: +2 252+ Atk Life Orb Torrent Feraligatr Aqua Jet vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Latios in rain: 218-257 (72.18 - 85.09%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
    Kalashnikov: 252Atk Life Orb +2 Torrent Feraligatr (+Atk) Aqua Jet in Rain vs 4HP/0Def Levitate Latios (Neutral): 71% - 84% (216 - 255 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.

    These are both with Life Orb, so trying to "abuse" Torrent is right out.
  14. LilOuOn

    LilOuOn

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    I don't recommend to use LO when abusing Torrent. You have low health and, therefore; you can only attack 2-3 times depending on the situation.
  15. Pikachuu

    Pikachuu

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    My bad. Thought Torrent was like a +1 boost so I just did +3 when doing the calc. Still though Feraligatr is atleast C-rank. Also Splash Plate or Mystic Water > Life Orb.
  16. dcae

    dcae naughty list

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    I don't think Feraligatr is deserving of a set just yet, because as an Aqua Jet abuser it is outclassed by Azumarill, who delivers more power right off the bat, and as a DD sweeper is outclassed by Gyarados, and a couple others. Once Sheer Force is released, on the other hand, it definitely will fly up in usage and in viability. However, for now, I don't think it should be added to the rankings, because then people will think it is viable.
  17. Magcargo

    Magcargo
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    IMO kabutops and feraligatr are equal aqua jet abusers. Kabutops has STAB rock attacks while feraligatr has torrent. They also have very similar bulk. I would say feraligatr belongs in D-Rank with kabutops, they're equal swords dance/ aqua jet users. However, once it DOES get sheer force, it belongs in B-Rank with gyarados, but for now, it deserves D-Rank.
  18. blunder

    blunder

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    gatr deserves low b rank if anything. You compare it to azumarill as an aqua jet user, but gatr alone can sweep sand when rotom is at like 50%. On the whole item debate use mystic water, lo sucks. Kabutops and it arent alike either. Gatr can set up on a lot more than kabutops b/c it's really fucking bulky. And @ Dcae saying it is not viable, lol. Besides sweeping common sand it can also demolish stall cores under rain, such as heatran / slowbro / amoongus and its wallbreaking potential and sweepability were showed in st9 finals when gr8 tore through dunk's team. On phone atm so will update later, but definitely consider gatr
  19. Gary2346

    Gary2346 A filthy casual
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    Sure Azumarill may pack more of a punch, however more often then not Azumarill will be running a Choice Band set, meaning that it's forced to be locked into one move. Gator on the other hand, has the freedom of spamming Aqua Jet and its coverage moves. They both play completely different roles; Azumarill being a wallbreaker, while Feraligator is a sweeper. They're comparable, but I don't think it's a valid argument in saying that Azumarill outdoes it because of a more powerful AJ.

    Also, I think the best item for Torrent abusing Gator is Mystic Water, since it still gets a STAB boost without the loss of health.
  20. dcae

    dcae naughty list

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    Well you do have a point, I was harsh on Feraligatr in my first post, so I have tested it out today and come to the conclusion that it should be Low B or High C rank, because it was very useful against Sand. Keldeo was irritating, but I have teammates for that, and the sets get worn down pretty easily into Aqua Jet range. Overall, it performed better than I expected it too, and so I now back it for High C or Low B.

    Also, since we are on a new page, and there was no discussion on it, here is my argument for Sharpedo for B rank:
  21. Bent1ey

    Bent1ey

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    Feraligatr in B? I really don't see it, he's not really awful but it should probably stay as a top C anyways not to cluster the B ranking too much. I mean, with its versatility, speed and good offensive typing Weavile is struggling to rise into B rank, I don't see Feraligatr niche as anything nearly as important -until Sheer Strength is released anyways, I'd probably wait until that point to add it at all-.
  22. Deluks917

    Deluks917 Ride on Shooting Star

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    Azumarill (Cb) is another water type hard walled by Jellicent. Rain has alot of those already. Feraligator with crunch crushes jellicent.
  23. DarkBlazeR

    DarkBlazeR

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    I think Feraligatr basically teeters on the border between B/C rank.

    On one hand, it resides among the best priority sweepers; Aqua Jet generally has superior neutral coverage than Mach Punch or Bullet Punch, and all of the viable ExtremeSpeed users don't get STAB on the move. Given Feraligatr's good but not outstanding bulk, most strong attacks in OU will put it into Torrent range from full health. Factoring in Torrent and rain, its Aqua Jet is actually the strongest priority move in OU, possessing a whopping 135 BP with STAB, which can be boosted further by holding a Splash Plate.

    On the other hand, it requires extensive team support to work since there are many things that can check it. Most teams have at least 2/3 Water resists, almost of all of which can comfortably take a +2 Torrent-boosted Aqua Jet in the rain at full health. You have to work hard to weaken these as a smart player will almost certainly try to keep his main Feraligatr check healthy at all costs. Stealth Rock support is absolutely mandatory for this set to work, though Spikes are recommended too - at least 2 layers is ideal. You also need to remove faster priority users - Breloom, Lucario and Dragonite can all easily revenge-kill Feraligatr. Also, depending on whether you opted for Crunch or Superpower, different things will hard wall you so you need to plan the rest of your team carefully so that these things (i.e. Ferrothorn, Jellicent etc) can be dealt with. You could run both, but Waterfall is very useful for breaking through slower, bulkier Pokémon as it hits like an absolute truck with rain and Torrent taken into account (it's as powerful as Victini's STAB V-Create). It can even be used as the main sweeping move with some Thunder Wave and/or Tailwind support, as at +2 it OHKOs everything bar the bulkiest Water resists (though not to replace Aqua Jet's moveslot, mind you).

    Based on my own experience, although Feraligatr can sometimes be difficult to use, and requires you to build a team around it, I think it can just about make that push into B-rank as it does have a definite niche that has been recognised by some of the top-level players. I don't mind if it ends up in C-rank though.
  24. blunder

    blunder

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    definitely on board with dcae for sharpedo in b. Its so good. Will edit in a bit with more
  25. GCSChris

    GCSChris

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    I think hippowdon should be high b rank, or at least low A. Although it can set up sand and has great physical bulk, it lacks good special bulk and can easily be forced out by things such as latios. Although it fits better on some sand teams over t-tar, Tyranitar usually does serve the better job, and although they can be great together, as Tyranitar can kill lati@s, I feel t-tar can more reliably set up sand and overshadows hippo.
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