Gen 5 The OU Viability Ranking thread

[alexwolf]

I agree with Super Mario Bro. Landorus is probably the best offensive tank in OU, and it just brings so many things to the table for offensive and balanced teams. SR, Intimidate, valuable resistances, powerful U-turn, and great coverage with the EdgeQuake combo all make it a very versatile threat. And of 'course being one of the best checks to Terrakion, aka one of the few S Rank Pokemon, is a huge boon as well.

Double Dance Lando-T is very legit as well, and the choiced sets work ok too, adding a bit of versatility to Lando-T. I think it should be in A rank too!

 

[ScraftyIsTheBest]

I, for sure, second Landorus-T for A-Rank. Its Intimidate ability is pretty awesome and allows it to check Terrakion to some degree. It also has access to SR, 145 Attack (which is awesome), EdgeQuake, and such. It can be a nice tank, or even one of the first sets I used, the SD+Rock Polish set, is great. Go for A-Rank Landorus-T.

 

[Dark Fallen Angel]

I also agree for Landorus-T on the A Rank. Unlike many other tanks, Landorus-T has a massive base 145 Attack, almost as high as Haxorus! Landorus-T is so bulky and hits so hard... and unlike many other tanks, it has an excellent speed (for something that is not meant to be used as a sweeper). It is so bulky that it can survive an Intimidated CB Adamant Kyurem-B's Outrage! This is pretty impressive for something that does not resist Dragon-type attacks. Unlike other tanks, it also has U-Turn. It has so many advantages over other tanks, that I don't know why it is already A-Rank.

 

[Deglas]

I would like to nominate Froslass for B Rank. I freely admit that it faces major competition for Deo-D for the role of suicide hazard setting lead, which is why I think it should only be B Rank. It has its benefits, however, such as setting up on rapid spinners, and being able to run a reasonably Shadow Ball to deal with Magic Bouncers and opposing Deo-D. I've actuallly had surprising success with a Focus Sash lead with Spikes, Ice Beam, Shadow Ball, and Hidden Power Fire. This lets it OHKO or 2HKO common spinners other than Tentacruel, and some other Pokemon the opponent might switch in, like Scizor and Ferrothorn with Gyro Ball. In addition, Cursed Body and Focus Sash means that Choiced Pokemon, mainly Scarfers, are gambling each time they attack-- they can give it free layers of Spikes if their move is Disabled while Froslass is still active, or if their move is Disabled as they KO Froslass, one of your Pokemon gets an entirely free round of setup.

 

[typon77]

I personally am not sure Landorus-T in A-Rank. It's definitely at least high B in my mind, but its actually pretty easy to play around intimidate, and without the attack drop, it's physical bulk isn't much to ride home about. I does a great job at checking fighters, but it that SR Tank set still gets 2HKO'd by CB Outrages from Dragons, which is one of the most common physical attacks. It also lacks reliable recovery, so with repeated physical attacks and constant Stealth Rock damage, it can be worn down quicker than many would like. I guess if that many people want it in A-Rank, so be it, but I'm just not sure if I agree with that.

Also, I'd like to know what people think of my earlier proposal of Landorus to S-Rank.

 

[nygerman]

Guess how many rain teams run perish song politoad? Not many. And perish song is cockblocked by mr. mime. You're also missing the point if you believe taunt shuts down baton pass, espeon is on BP teams precisely for that role. BP is a legitimate strategy that can beat a wide array of teams, particularly bulky offense and stall. Espeon is the face of BP, on top of having great offensive presence, and being a great deoxys-d counter and one of the best DS users, that's why it deserves B rank.

Just because one pokemon blocks Mime, doesn't mean that it's cockblocked. Most Politoad run perish song. Most baton pass user lead with ninjask. If you perish song on the first time, baton pass user have to switch out. It you have a dragonite, you can dragon dance with inpunity against ninjask. It your taunt is faster, espeon can't block it.

 

[Deglas]

You cannot Dragon dance with impunity. Toxic, Protect, Sub, Protect, Sub, etc. Dragonite dies.

 

[Master of the Six Kings]

With both Genesect and Tornadus-T gone, i'm honestly thinking Alakazam will move to A-rank. Genesect and Tornadus-T being able to U-turn out to break its sash/u-tun or hurricane to ohko it were Alakazam's biggest hurdles in OU. Now both of those are gone, only leaving T-tar to pursuit trap it in (and he can fire off a hefty sum with FB) and Jolteon to outspeed it (though Jolteon isn't amazingly powerful, or good in OU). Between LO/Focus Sash and Psychic/FB/Shadow Ball/Calm Mind/Hidden Power/Psychoshock and its Grass attacks, it doesn't have the moves to take on every OU mon, but it should be able to deal with 3 or 4 members on a team. Ofcourse, Magic Guard is really what sets Alakazam apart and will surely make it A-rank in my mind, coming in on any hazards, not fearing Scald burns or Toxic, and its synergy with LO/FS.

Any other thoughts on A-zam to A-rank?

 

[alexwolf]

Now that Master of the Six Kings mentioned it, Celebi should go up to A rank! It can now once again cockblock rain teams with its SpD set, with only a few Pokemon rain team carry troubling it (Scizor, Tornadus-T, Mamoswine). Also the NP set just got a whole lot better and is officialy a big threat for any rain team to deal with. Your standard rain team can't wall Celebi at +2, which Celebi can easily get, and their only hope is revenge killing with something like Specs Jolteon, Specs Latios, or Band Terrakion.

CELEBI FTW!!!

 

[Dark Fallen Angel]

Now that Master of the Six Kings mentioned it, Celebi should go up to A rank! It can now once again cockblock rain teams with its SpD set, with only a few Pokemon rain team carry troubling it (Scizor, Tornadus-T, Mamoswine). Also the NP set just got a whole lot better and is officialy a big threat for any rain team to deal with. Your standard rain team can't wall Celebi at +2, which Celebi can easily get, and their only hope is revenge killing with something like Specs Jolteon, Specs Latios, or Band Terrakion.

CELEBI FTW!!!

I agree. The Nasty Plot set is getting better and better as threats to it are banned: first was Genesect. Second was Tornadus-T. At +2, nothing on a rain team can sponge its attacks, as Scizor is OHKOed by +2 Hidden Power Fire on rain, or by +2 Earth Power after Stealth Rock damage. Tornadus is a threat, but it is not as common on rain teams as its Therian form, and is much easier to deal with. Specs Jolteon and Specs Latios can both be dealt with Tyranitar, while Band Terrakion is easy to revenge kill. In fact, I can foresee sandstorm teams using more Celebi because of this. I can even foresee the NP set being over the Tank set on its Smogon analysis.

The offensive tank set unfortunately lost the ability to lure its biggest enemy on rain teams, and possibly take it out with Psychic or Hidden Power Ice after Stealth Rock damage. However, the offensive tank set is useful to be able to both check Keldeo more reliably than the NP set, and to not be offensively useless like the specially defensive set.

 

[ScraftyIsTheBest]

Now that Master of the Six Kings mentioned it, Celebi should go up to A rank! It can now once again cockblock rain teams with its SpD set, with only a few Pokemon rain team carry troubling it (Scizor, Tornadus-T, Mamoswine). Also the NP set just got a whole lot better and is officialy a big threat for any rain team to deal with. Your standard rain team can't wall Celebi at +2, which Celebi can easily get, and their only hope is revenge killing with something like Specs Jolteon, Specs Latios, or Band Terrakion.

CELEBI FTW!!!

Yeah looking at it now, Celebi is back to what it was before. It's a nice weapon against rain teams, and the NP set can definitely wreck shit. With its two big counters in Genesect and Tornadus-T banished, Celebi has less trouble doing its job, and can be a great weapon against rain teams. Celebi for A-Rank.

Also seconding Master of Six Kings on Alakazam. I really do not need to explain why.

 

[Master of the Six Kings]

Oh yes, i knew i had two Pokemon in mind, but couldn't remember the other. I agree with Celebi moving up to A rank, given the same removal of threats, and a much wider movepool/defensiveness capabilities. One thing to note though is that D-nite's special rain set may increase in popularity, as it is the last good Hurricane user and Celebi has to A) have Multi Scale broken and B) be carrying HP Ice to do anything to it as far as rain teams go. That said, it is definitively a solid Poke, i used it even with Tornadus and Gene around to some success, but their removal will certainly allow Celebi, A-zam and to some extent the Lati twins to function much more effectively.

Alakazam and Celebi for A-rank!

 

[Brave Bird spam]

Yeah I was wondering why a great anti-rain mon like celebi is sitting in B rank. I agrre with moving Celebi to A rank. The NP set is amazing with torn-t gone, too!

 

[flea]

Yeah, I'll join in on the choir that wants Celebi in A now. And just for fun, here are a few other musings I have about the tiering now that one of the biggest threats in the metagame is completely gone.

- Breloom to S? Yeah, it's still checkable, but Breloom just lost one of the biggest thorns in its side. You won't see too many Breloom having to run Rock Tomb anymore. It can incapacitate nearly all its counters with spore and blast through 3/4ths of the metagame with its ridiculously powerful technician-boosted STABs. Oh, and it's also got priority. Without a doubt among the biggest threats in the meta.

-Zapdos to C? Zapdos' viability, whether in terms of it's ability to check Tornadus-T to its viability checking other rain threats, has been discussed nearly to death by the suspect thread. However, I'm pretty sure that most agreed Zapdos is a mediocre pokemon in OU outside of being one of the best Tornadus-T checks, and Tornadus just went Uber. This should prevent it from being tiered the same as current powerhouses like Tentacruel, Gengar, Venusaur and Jellicent.

Jolteon to C? Another pokemon whose viability was largely dependent on its ability to combat Tornadus-T at least somewhat effectively. Without that niche, its speed stat isn't really that important any more...it's like, yay, you outspeed Alakazam...

Venusaur to A? I'm sure this has been mentioned quite a few times before, but this thing is already a nightmare under sun for any rain team to face, and now probably the best combatant to it that was found on standard rain teams is gone baby gone. I sort of see Venusaur like this- if you get Sun up permanently and remove Heatran/whatever counter the set you're running has, it is GG. That is an A-tier pokemon in my opinion. I mean, the thing almost has a win condition.


Or maybe I just think B rank is too crowded. I feel as though there are many pokemon in B that are waaaay better than some in the same tier.

 

[Schpoonman]

As dangerous as Breloom is, there's still too many Pokémon that fear Spore and Spore alone, so once they work around that as we did before Tornadus-T's departure Breloom is only moderately dangerous. Possibly on the cusp of S, but keep Breloom in A.

Yeah, Zapdos and Jolteon for C. Once (if) Zapdos receives Lightningrod he needs another look, but that's it.

Venusaur is in B!? I had to drop Scarfmence for Scarf Latios specifically because I had nothing to outspeed this asshole and he would boost up to +2 and then proceed to KO the rest of my team. One of those threats that you either prepare for extensively or you lose. Venusaur to A, and I don't know why he wasn't there already.

 

[Takion]

Im in Favour of Alakazam and Celebi to A. Both pokemon have great coverage and can make or break a game.

What do you all feel about when Raikou gets his dream world ability volt absorb?

Also, has anyone tested out Weavile to full success?

 

[Bent1ey]

Venusaur to A is a no-brainer, Celebi to A sounds good too, solid poke.

 

[cocoon]

Just because one pokemon blocks Mime, doesn't mean that it's cockblocked. Most Politoad run perish song. Most baton pass user lead with ninjask. If you perish song on the first time, baton pass user have to switch out. It you have a dragonite, you can dragon dance with inpunity against ninjask. It your taunt is faster, espeon can't block it.

You really don't know how BP works if this is what you're saying. MR. mine's existence to block perish song, and given the speed boosts passed on to it, it should have no problem doing so. Most politoad do not run perish, were the hell lare you even getting that from? BP users also have pokemon that stop setup sweepers, by either boosting along with them so that the boosts from the other pokemon are minute, or some pokemon even carry roar.

 

[alexwolf]

I fully support flea's suggestions! It is time for Venusaur to go in A rank, especially now that Rain teams don't have a solid answer to Sunny Day Venusaur anymore.

 

[cocoon]

Tornadus-i is actually a better answer to venusaur than its therian form. The main reason is because it has priority rain dance which shuts down venusaur, from then, it can use hurricane for the KO. Just wanted to point that out. However, I'm inclined to agree that venusaur is an excellent sweeper and can be an interesting pivot on stall teams alike. A rank for sure.

 

[Dark Fallen Angel]

Venusaur is in B!? I had to drop Scarfmence for Scarf Latios specifically because I had nothing to outspeed this asshole and he would boost up to +2 and then proceed to KO the rest of my team. One of those threats that you either prepare for extensively or you lose. Venusaur to A, and I don't know why he wasn't there already.

And even then, your opponent can use a Timid nature to outspeed Scarf Latios, making Venusaur somewhat unpredictable. It was a lot of time since Venusaur was worthy of A-Rank, and it still is.

 

[Schpoonman]

Yeah, I've been incredibly fortuitous in that I haven't encountered any Timid Venusaurs.

 

[PK Gaming]

OK! Update
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Landorus up from A-tier ==> S-tier
Venusaur up from B-tier ==> A-tier
Celebi up from B-tier ==> A-tier
Landorus-T up from B-tier ==> A-tier
Zapdos down from B-tier ==> C-tier
Jolteon down from B-tier ==> C-tier

I should have moved Landorus to S-tier a long time ago. To make a long story short, Sheer Force Landorus is stupidly strong in BW OU. It's definitely in the same league as Terrakion when it comes to sheer strength (in fact i'd say its even stronger).

I'm a little hesitant on moving Alakazam to A-tier, though i'm not opposed to the idea entirely. Thoughts on this?

 

[Bent1ey]

Personally I think Alakazam should remain at B, it has its niche, but you're often better of running a Lati or going with another offensive type altogether, it can do its job but you can often find better options.

 

[TheWaddleDeeKing]

With Scizor being the number one used Pokemon right now? No. Too many scarfers and priority in the metagame hurt Alakazam. Maybe if it was bulkier it could do it, but with no real way to stop getting hit its just not good enough for A-tier. Even with sash it's hard to keep alive.

Alakazam at B-tier.

Also, I'm not sure if this has been brought up before, but I'd definitely nominate Keldeo for S-rank, if not for the fact that Sub + CM is extremely hard to get around, with only a few counters in the game that will be forced to take a Hydro Pump or something if behind a sub. In the rain it's even more deadly. Good typing and resistance to rocks is the cherry on the top.