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The Outsiders Challenge — Mk II

Discussion in 'BW OU' started by Harsha, Sep 2, 2012.

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  1. Harsha

    Harsha Rest In Beats
    is an official Team Rateris a Forum Moderatoris a Tiering Contributoris a Tutor Alumnusis a Site Staff Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
    RMT Co-Leader

    Joined:
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    The Outsiders Challenge
    Hosted by Harsha. Original thread is located here. Art by Fatecrashers.

    [​IMG]

    Introduction

    Many of you probably have seen the original Outsiders Challenge, but for those who do not know the purpose behind it, it's actually fairly simple. This challenge is hosted to determine what strategies that aren't used too often are effective, as well as who are the best ladder players. Last time, players McMeghan, ShakeItUp, MetaGross666, Lady Alex, Xanderpitz, Bloo, and mostwanted were all able to overcome the adversity provided by the strict guidelines and achieve high ratings, with over 1400 points on the Smogon University Pokemon Online ladder. With the switch into Pokemon Showdown!, as well as the switch to BW2, we can take another look at this challenge!

    Rules

    • The following Pokemon are banned:
    1. Politoed
    2. Scizor
    3. Ferrothorn
    4. Dragonite
    5. Heatran
    6. Tyranitar
    7. Jirachi
    8. Gliscor
    9. Breloom
    10. Starmie
    • Additionally, the Pokemon Genesect, Tornadus-T, and Thundurus-T have been banned for this challenge.
    • You must start with a fresh alt when entering this challenge.
    • Once you reach a rating of 1850, you are eligible for the Hall of Fame! Simply post your peak (screenshots, please) and the team you used, and answer a few discussion questions.
    • Please don't cheat. We know it's tempting to cheat for glory in a Pokemon challenge, but really, I promise it's not worth it. If you're going to use banned Pokemon in this challenge, why did you even sign up?
    Here's a format of a sign-up:
    Sign-ups

    Show Hide
    -Rockstar- - Rockstar
    1996ito - Don Juan
    Articblast - Articblast
    Asch - Flash Kick
    Asterat - turdz
    Audiosurgfer - Magileine
    AuraRayquaza - aruA
    Bl1tzkri3g - Lightning Outside
    BlueAquaRabbit - Mordin Solus
    chaos 9 - Peace is Here
    CHENN - cheen challenge
    Chimpakt - champact - [1850] - Discussion Questions
    Dark Nikuman - Whistle Baby
    DarkBlazeR - Loveless
    DEMo_Gorgon47 - DEMo_Gorgon47
    DrunkDemon - DHC
    erratic - halcyon
    franci - jellytothemax
    G-Von - G-Von OC
    ganj4lF - EvilGrin02 - [1850] - Discussion Questions
    ginganinja - We All Love Birkal
    Grape Drink 2.0 - Hypocrite
    Hot N Cold - Altagracia Loreal
    Jeppeapaan - Fix ladder
    Jets - toasted cheese
    Jimbon - summersalt
    Jobriq - TunakTunakTaco - [1950] - Discussion Questions
    Joeyboy - Loose Seal
    JoshuaMunoz - Ditto 1
    Lavos Spawn - oven mitts - [1900] - Discussion Questions
    LucaroarkZ - not your avg user
    Magma - Magmarizer
    Master of the Six Kings - Kingdon of Sixes
    Me So Shiny - Gettin it
    MysticNova - Memories
    newguy2 - destroyer002
    NATdude - Krakenlover
    PDC - euthanasia
    Peache - peach
    Phazon00 - Inferno Titan
    pieguy13 - pieguy1313
    Pocket - PockOut
    Pokelol - ZePokelolz
    Princess Bri - lavos sux d
    Sayonara - Aura
    senegal - tunisia - [1950] - Discussion Questions
    ShakeItUp - Novae_Rogue
    Shining Latios - Royal Flush
    Shuckler - Radommon
    Sork - Burungeru
    SuperChillarmy - ChuperShillarmy
    The Great Mighty Doom - Kasugami - [1850] / Kuni - [1900] - Discussion Questions
    The QWAZ - Qwaz
    The Unlucky one - ITS MAHVEL BABY
    ThePillsburyDoughBoy - DoughBoy DH2
    toshimelonhead - t_oshi
    TropiOUs - -MLG-Trop
    tytoandnoob - tytoandnoob
    UltiMario - AltiMario
    undisputed - dancing dragons
    XKnightX - Unfaithful - [1850] - Discussion Questions

    Discussion

    After completing the challenge, here are some questions you should think about!
    1. What did you think was the biggest challenge when not being allowed to use any of the restricted Pokemon? Was it overcomeable?
    2. How did you feel the challenge tested your metagame skill? Did it make playing much harder, or were you still able to leaderboard with relative ease.
    3. What is your opinion on how overpowered the Pokemon that you were not allowed to use, but were required to face? Were they too strong to deal with, are there metagame shifts you would consider to correct this? Please don't derail the thread with a constant debate over this point, only reply once you've won!
    4. What team style did you use, and how did it fare against the metagame? Were there team styles you couldn't beat? (As an aside, please share your team with an importable! It'll be fun to disect those, and you may even be featured in a Smog article!)
    5. What is your personal opinion on this challenge?
    As an aside, please, please, please feel free to discuss how your challenge is going! You can ask for team help, advice, and other things in this thread as well.

    Hall of Fame

    [1950]
    • senegal - tunisia - 1966 - [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
      "I think what Im appreciating most from this challenge is the difference between pkmn with niche roles and those with much broader responsibilities."
    • Jobriq - TunakTunakTaco - 1961 - [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
      "I used a full stall Hail team with the deceptively bulky SubRoost Kyurem to pressure stall those troublesome high power moves that often come with a measley 8 pp, and also to blast things with its deadly Blizzard."
    [1900]
    • The Great Mighty Doom - Kuni - 1941 - [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
      "I used a Bulky Offense Sand team based around a Stoutland sweep, utilizing Specs Magnezone to take out the steel types that resist Stoutland's STAB. It fared pretty great against the metagame and no particular playstyle caused any major issues."
    • Lavos Spawn - oven mitts - 1927 - [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
      "Playing wasn't especially difficult, because I feel like I came up with a team that really compensated for the bans by utilizing some underrated threats."
    [1850]
    • ganj4lf - EvilGrin02 - 1879
    • Chimpakt - Champact - 1852
    • XKnightX - Unfaithful - 1850
  2. -Tsunami-

    -Tsunami- ¡YA HA!
    is a Smogon IRC AOPis a Smogon Media Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Past WCoP Winneris a SPL Winner
    Mentor

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    Name: ShakeItUp
    alt: Novae_Rogue
    Ladder standing: 1756
  3. AuraRayquaza

    AuraRayquaza

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    Name: AuraRayquaza
    Alt: aruA
    Ladder standing: 908
  4. Doughboy

    Doughboy house of champions
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Community Contributor Alumnus
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    Name: ThePillsburyDoughBoy
    Alt: DoughBoy DH DoughBoy DH2
    Ladder standing: 1544

    edit: whops used a gliscor :(
  5. ginganinja

    ginganinja Dating Haunter
    is a Forum Moderatoris a CAP Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus
    Moderator

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    Name:ginganinja
    Alt: We All Love Birkal
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  6. Bl1tzkri3g

    Bl1tzkri3g

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    No Ninetails ban? It seems like standard sun is still viable with minimal changes. I'll sign up with the alt Lightning Outside
  7. Lavos Spawn

    Lavos Spawn
    is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Past WCoP Winner

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    Name: Lavos Spawn
    Alt: oven mitts
    Ladder standing: 1927

    yolo (open)
    [​IMG]


    first to the finish line

    here's some discussion questions for you though

    1. What did you think was the biggest challenge when not being allowed to use any of the restricted Pokemon? Was it overcomeable?
    - The biggest challenge was having to find a playstyle that didn't use any of the 13 banned Pokemon. Often, I found myself building a team, then realizing I needed one of the banned Pokemon for it to function properly, and having to scrap the whole thing and start over again. Obviously it was overcomeable, but it made me think a little harder about teambuilding and forced me to reconsider my options multiple times. I enjoyed the challenge.

    2. How did you feel the challenge tested your metagame skill? Did it make playing much harder, or were you still able to leaderboard with relative ease.
    - Playing wasn't especially difficult, because I feel like I came up with a team that really compensated for the bans by utilizing some underrated threats. It also fit my favorite playstyle, an added bonus that made it easier to ladder successfully.

    3. What is your opinion on how overpowered the Pokemon that you were not allowed to use, but were required to face? Were they too strong to deal with, are there metagame shifts you would consider to correct this? Please don't derail the thread with a constant debate over this point, only reply once you've won!
    - The only really difficult Pokemon to face were Genesect and Tornadus-T. Genesect was an issue because both Heatran and Jirachi, two of its most solid checks, were banned for the challenge. Same thing for Tornadus-T: I couldn't use Jirachi to check it, so it gave me a bit of trouble. Thankfully, a specially defensive Hippowdon did a good job on the latter, but Genesect was quite a pain.

    4. What team style did you use, and how did it fare against the metagame? Were there team styles you couldn't beat? (As an aside, please share your team with an importable! It'll be fun to disect those, and you may even be featured in a Smog article!)
    - I used a balanced Sand team that focused on stacking hazards, phazing, and sweeping late-game with Stoutland. It did a great job against the metagame, considering most teams were offensively oriented, and once I beat their Politoed/Ninetales, Stoutland did work. The only playstyle my team might have had trouble with would have been sand stall + Jellicent, because spike stacking is annoying when you can't spin them away, but thankfully I never faced a team like that. Here's the team I used: http://pastebin.com/MmCGj4aJ

    5. What is your personal opinion on this challenge?
    - This was an excellent challenge for me as a teambuilder and battler. It forced me to think outside the box when teambuilding, and adapt to using some unconventional strategies and Pokemon. I would highly recommend this challenge to any aspiring battler - even if you don't achieve success, you have still gained something intangible by participating.
  8. LucaroarkZ

    LucaroarkZ

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    Name: LucaroarkZ
    Alt: not your avg user
    Ladder standing: 1398
  9. newguy2

    newguy2

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    Name : newguy2
    Alt : destroyer003
    Ladder standing : N/A
  10. NATdude

    NATdude

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    I'm not very good at laddering, but I'll give it a shot.
    Name: natdude
    Alt: The Kraken
    Ladder standing: none yet
  11. DrunkDemon

    DrunkDemon

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    Name: DrunkDemon
    Alt: DHC
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  12. SuperChillarmy

    SuperChillarmy

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  13. CHENN

    CHENN

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    name: chenn
    alt name: cheen challenge
    ladder score: not yet
  14. TGMD

    TGMD +Biosci: you both gave me crabs
    is a Tutoris a Battle Server Moderatoris a Team Rater Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
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    Name: The Great Mighty Doom
    Alt: Kuni
    Ladder standing: 1941 (73-4)
  15. Jimbon

    Jimbon fools and worthless liars
    is a Team Rater Alumnus

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    Name: Jimbon
    Alt: summersalt
    Ladder standing: 1665 (19-4)
  16. Shining_Latios

    Shining_Latios

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  17. -Rockstar-

    -Rockstar-

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  18. pieguy13

    pieguy13

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  19. The QWAZ

    The QWAZ

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  20. DEMo_Gorgon47

    DEMo_Gorgon47

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    Darn, I love using Genesect and Heatran. Ah well, gotta find new special sweepers.
    Name: DEMo_Gorgon47
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  21. G-Von

    G-Von

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  22. Sayonara

    Sayonara don't forget

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  23. Jets

    Jets

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    f'ing lag.

    lmao didnt realize heatran was banned so i gotta start over...

    Name: Jets
    Alt: toasted cheese
    Ladder standing: n/a
  24. Peache

    Peache

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  25. ganj4lF

    ganj4lF Nobody is safe from the power of science!
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    Ladder standing: 1750ish (57/16)


    EDIT: Okay, gave up with the first team, peaked 1770ish and then it was a disaster. I was trying a DragMag strategy with 4 dragons, Magnezone for Steels and Wobb for everything else (like Mamoswine or Scarf Latios). However, the team required perfect prediction and there was just too little room for error (or maybe I'm just not good enough to succeed in this challenge with that team...). Anyway, will try again tomorrow with another team!

    Name: ganj4lF
    Alt: EvilGrin02
    Ladder standing: 1854 1879

    Edit again: Yay, challenge completed! Was hard, but very funny and interesting as well. I may attempt 1900s soon, I'll edit again in case.

    Screenshot (open)
    [​IMG]


    What did you think was the biggest challenge when not being allowed to use any of the restricted Pokemon? Was it overcomeable?
    I started with the idea of an HO team of some sort, so the biggest challenge was in teambuilding; many powerhouses that often are the first addition to a HO team are outright banned (Breloom and, to a lesser extent, Scizor, over everything else). After I reached 1700 I decided to follow Taylor's advice and gave up Deoxys-D, so that was another little challenge. However, there's still plenty of good material under the top 10, so it wasn't that hard to build a discrete team; the challenge was surely overcomable, although the final result was slightly less effective than other teams of the same kind (well, perhaps not less effective, but it gave me less room for error).

    How did you feel the challenge tested your metagame skill? Did it make playing much harder, or were you still able to leaderboard with relative ease?
    Well I'm never able to leaderboard with "relative ease"; I think of myself as an average ladderer, so it wasn't easy to remain focused and climb my way to 1850. However, the main challenge was concentration and playing good, and it wasn't much harder than with any other team (in fact, it was slightly easier since HO teams aren't exactly the hardest to play).

    What is your opinion on how overpowered the Pokemon that you were not allowed to use, but were required to face? Were they too strong to deal with, are there metagame shifts you would consider to correct this? Please don't derail the thread with a constant debate over this point, only reply once you've won!
    I'm used to never complain about something being "overpowered" or the likes, so I won't do now. Of course, there were some pokemon harder to handle, but not significantly more compared to other teams, in my opinion. Tornadus-T was the most annoying one, since my team is pathetically weak to Flying; however, continuous spamming of powerful attacks eventually cornered him, usually resulting in a KO thanks to Choice Scarf Latios' Draco Meteor. Genesect, on the other hand, wasn't an issue at all: everyone who I found on the ladder with Gene used it as a lead, and noone of them switched out of my Latios (that I would put into the lead position as soon as I saw a Gene), thus being obliterated by Scarf HP Fire before they could U-Turn out. The most threatening things, overall, weren't even in the banlist for this challenge, as I found Chloro Sweepers and those damn Stoutland in sand to be much more dangerous, especially for a team with no means of changing weather.

    What team style did you use, and how did it fare against the metagame? Were there team styles you couldn't beat? (As an aside, please share your team with an importable! It'll be fun to disect those, and you may even be featured in a Smog article!)
    As I anticipated, I used an all-out offensive style with Deoxys-D (later substituted by Uxie, that really surprised me: it's bulkier, faster, hits harder, and has Memento, although not having Spikes and Psycho Boost hurts). The team was quite effective, and the MVP was often Keldeo, that really needs some more love, since with a LO and a Calm Mind under its belt can basically obliterate anything, provided that Sun wasn't up. I had the most problems against Sun, and to a lesser extent Sand: the first can spam powerful attacks right off the bat, and severely cripple Keldeo, while the second keeps stacking residual damage on me, and still can use powerful sweepers that doesn't need set-up, like Stoutland or Lando-I. However, both were manageable with the help of some prediction and Scarf Latios revenging basically the entire metagame with its unparalleled speed. I didn't found many stall teams on the ladder, so I can't really talk about that kind of team, but still I had some awesome wallbreakers in my team, so I wasn't that much concerned anyway.

    This is the team (couldn't resist and called it HOutsiders): [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    And this is the importable! (open)
    Deoxys-Defense (Uxie) @ Fire Gem
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 34 HP / 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 220 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Stealth Rock
    - Memento
    - Psychic
    - Hidden Power [Fire]

    Lucario @ Life Orb
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Swords Dance
    - Close Combat
    - Crunch
    - ExtremeSpeed

    Keldeo @ Life Orb
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Calm Mind
    - Hydro Pump
    - Secret Sword
    - Hidden Power [Ghost]

    Conkeldurr @ Leftovers
    Trait: Guts
    EVs: 120 HP / 252 Atk / 136 SDef
    Adamant Nature
    - Bulk Up
    - Drain Punch
    - Mach Punch
    - Payback

    Gengar @ Black Sludge
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Substitute
    - Disable
    - Shadow Ball
    - Focus Blast

    Latios (M) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Draco Meteor
    - Surf
    - Psyshock
    - Hidden Power [Fire]


    What is your personal opinion on this challenge?
    It was really interesting, it both improved my team building skills (that are still mediocre, I guess...) and my battling skills since I was required to ladder till 1850 rating. Also, it aws fun to rediscover some forgotten threats and overpower many teams with those. Gengar and Uxie surprised me with their effectiveness, and while I already knew Keldeo, Latios, Conkeldurr and Lucario were great, it was nice to use something refreshing and a little outside the box to overcome this challenge.
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