The Overlooked Rival - A Hail Discussion Thread

Destiny Warrior

also known as Darkwing_Duck
is a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
Note: Not every Pokemon covered here has been tested fully. Just saying.


LC never really had the right Pokemon for Hail Stall. That's a well-known fact. However, a major style of Hail has been ignored a lot over the years of LC: Offensive Hail.

Offensive Hail is very different from just slapping on Scarf Snover or the like onto a team. Offensive Hail is neither hyper offense nor balanced offense, it is a variant of semistall. It revolves around wracking up passive damage, which is an element of stall, while still retaining a lot of offensive presence.

Offensive hail often only has 1 ice type: Snover. However, this one Ice-type is the key focal point of the entire team. Offensive Hail is one of the few styles of play that can face Moguryuu without running insane amounts of priority, making it a great style in the Sandstorm-infested metagame.

So who are the main Pokemon of Offensive Hail?

Sweepers




Snover, the most important member of Offensive Hail, rather obviously. He brings in the permanent hail, checks Moguryuu, and tears down Hippopotas all in one go. He is the central Pokemon of any Hail team, and should not be sacrificedat all costs(unless doing so will guarantee a victory beyond a shadow of doubt). On an Offensive Hail team, Snover's best set is the Choice Scarf set, as it allows it to revenge kill Moguryuu, one of the biggest pains in the neck to almost any team.



Houndour provides valuable priority on an Offensive Hail team, which is very important as offensive Hail teams generally do not have room for a lot of priority. Flash Fire means that Snover is an efficient luring partner for him. With 2 immunities, Houndour is a great choice.



Elekid is another great Offensive Hail sweeper. With a physical set, it provides more valuable priority in the form of QUick Attack, while with a mixed set, it can tear through Sandstorm teams after Snover pulls out the Hail. In the generation shift, Elekid gained Wild Bolt, which while alongwith Hail and possibly other passive damage like LO might make Elekid kill itself fast, it doesn't really matter too much since Elekid is meant to punch holes in teams on an offensive Hail team, not sweep.

Support and Defense



Yabukuron is an overlooked Pokemon that gains its potency under Hail. It can setup Toxic Spikes and/or Spikes, which is very valuable to an offensive Hail team. Toxic Spikes support is very valuable, since Croagunk gets eliminated really easily by an essential component of Offensive Hail: Pururiru.

Spikes support is also good, since Yabukuron will get enough opportunities to setup. If you want to set up hazards, Toxic Spikes/Spikes/Gunk Shot or Return/Rock Blast. Despite Posion's terrible coverage, STAB Gunk Shot is gonna hurt. Also, on support Yabukuron, Balloon is almost a must, as it gives you an excellent switch in to Scarf Meguroko, who will look nab a free KO and +1 Attack with Earthquake. On the forced switch, you can throw up a layer of (Toxic) Spikes, increasing the passive damage and weaking Meguroko when it next comes in.




Pururiru is a must on every offensive hail team(and Snover is too, but that was obvious). It holds offensive hail together, with its ability to stop most physical threats, as well as provide important immunities to Water, Normal and Fighting. Without Pururiru, Offensive Hail would just fall on its face since its very hard to setup passive damage while still having checks to the wide range of things that Pururiru can cover.

So that's it for the main players of Hail, I am considering adding some more Pokemon in the future, tell me if you think they're worth it!

List
1.Chinchou
2.Darumakka
3.Croagunk
4.Onix

Hail Stall Note: Hail Stall is just too hard this Generation, with the addition of Moguryuu and other Sandstorm abuser. For Hail to square off against Sandstorm successfully, it has to maintain offensive tempo while still gatehring free turns to rack up passive damage.
 
Yuniran (the single-celled organism psychic thing) Has both Magic Guard and Dust Proof to avoid damage from hail. It hits with a really strong sp. attack stat so it'll help out. However it is slow and doesn't have many resistances it could switch in on.
 

Destiny Warrior

also known as Darkwing_Duck
is a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
Vulpix hasn't been confirmed yet, so hail has some breathing space right now. However, on hail teams, you should be maximising passive damage, so SR, Spikes, TSpikes will really wear it down(along with a potential Life Orb). Besides, Houndour can eat any fire-type attacks it throws, and force it out, and start a mini-sweep with double STAB Fire Blasts. The key to using offensive hail is to turn your opponent's weather against them.

Yuniran has crappy defenses too, meaning Houndour deals with them nicely. They can't afford to come in on any attack, with the only problematic variants being Focus Sash variants. They can come in, and will definitely get a kill with that awesome Special Attack stat. However, the trick with Yuniran is to force it to overpredict, then punish it with something like a Gastly, who can Sub once to scout, Hypnosis next turn, and sub again if necessary. WHile you do lose a lot of HP, Gastly's only purpose on a hail team is to provide immunitites, and rampage lategame.
 
Obligatory mention of ScarfSTAB Blizzards. Like Smoochum.

Porygon and Duskull like Hail for their Blizzards as well.

Also, obligatory Sneasel reference for Sash breaking.
 

Destiny Warrior

also known as Darkwing_Duck
is a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
ScarfSTAB Blizzards = free switch in for Agilichou and Munchlax. The former is a major threat to these kinds of teams, as with Oran Berry, it does not get 2HKOd, and will sweep through teams lacking priority(often the case in offensive Hail, which can run upto 3 Scarfers and still remain a variant of "semistall").
 
My Hail team is LO lead meowth (lead (in case they lead with another weather-upper)), Snover (snover can get up instant snow in doubles),spheal, endeavor+weather+ice shard+protect swinub (gets a lot of kills, watch out for oran berries, dynamic punh confusion and entry hazards), spheal (SP.Atker)(I'm using Ice body right now, however I think i'll change that to Thick Fat to deal with houndour), shuppet (trickscarf+T-wave+2 attacks), and scarfchop.

There are quite a few more pokemon I wish I could have used >.> Smoochum has done quite a bit for me in LC.

Point I'm trying to make: Besides snover, Swinub, Spheal, and Smoochum are pretty good ice-types if you're making a hail team.
Its too bad Snorunt doesn't have froslass' ice/ghost typing, otherwise it would have replaced shuppet.
 
Snover beat Chinchou and Munchlax gets burned by Pururiru...

Also, what about Magnemite? Even if you're just using Snover, Magnemite can trap and kill steels (as you may know) that generally cockblock it, and booming on Chinchou and Munchlax, even with the nerf, is going to sting them. It also looks to be a good teammate with Pururiru, resisting every type except Ground.
 

Destiny Warrior

also known as Darkwing_Duck
is a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
Chnchou comes IN on Scarf Blizzard, Agilities up, eats Oran, then sweeps. IIRC, it can take 2 Scarf Blizzards + 1 turn of hail damage.

Only steels in LC are Bronzor, Aron, Magnemite and Komatana. Bronzor gets beaten by HP Fire Snover, Aron is beaten by Gunk, Magnemite dies to fire types, and Komatana is like, Uber lol.
 
Komatana is not a complete beast. As with the new sweepers which gen 5 brought along, Komatana is weak to Mach Punch and Vaccum Wave, which means it will be revenge killed fairly easily. You are anyway forced to run priority to deal with stuff like EarthquakeSpiral DD Zuruggu, Speed Boost Carvanha(although the latter has Aqua jet)etc.
 
If Sunny Day becomes popular at all, obviously hail will have trouble. Sunny Day Pokemon generally OHKO every single hail abuser in one way or another.
 

Destiny Warrior

also known as Darkwing_Duck
is a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
@CP: Only common Mach Punch users are Magby(who hasn't been seen to be very popular in the metagame), and Dokkora(I'll give you that).

Only Croagunk runs VWave, and he is outpaced and OHKO'd by +2 Sucker Punch.

@Heysup: Yeah, that's 100% true, hail is basically a temporary foolproof stop to Moguryuu, until Drought Vulpix is released.
 

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