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The Power of the Sun!

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by MrMewTwo, Jan 30, 2013.

  1. MrMewTwo

    MrMewTwo

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2013
    Messages:
    15
    Hi. This is my first team. I have worked on this team for some time now and have made a lot of changes. I feel that it has a lot of room for improvement so be as critical as you'd like to be.

    Sun inducer
    [​IMG]
    Ninetales @ Air Balloon
    Trait: Drought
    EVs: 252 HP / 124 Def / 132 Spd
    Bold Nature
    - Fire Blast
    - Sunny Day
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Roar

    Ninetales is the typical sun inducer. I use sunny day as one of the moves primarily to bring back the sun if it was changed by another pokemon. This works extremely well against Abomasnow. Anyone in their right mind would switch in Abomasnow and switch out into a pokemon that a fire blast is not effective to. Sunny day would allow the weather switch and pressuring Abomasnow while doing so as it needs to switch in again. With a Ninetales on the field it will hesitate to switch. Ninetales often has trouble with other weather inducers such as politoad. That is why I run a defensive build for it. I don't like it being out in the open often. In addition Sunny Day is essential in winning weather wars. Without sunny day this team can fall flat. However I have pokemon such as Dragonite to sweep even without sunny day.

    The Special Sweeper
    [​IMG]
    Volcarona @ Lum Berry
    Trait: Flame Body
    EVs: 240 HP / 216 Def / 52 Spd
    Bold Nature
    - Quiver Dance
    - Bug Buzz
    - Fiery Dance
    - Morning Sun

    Volcarona is an amazing pokemon. This is a typical standard build for it. However many people tell me to run a ChestoRest build. I don't like the fact that I would get a limited heal. I really like morning sun. The downside to it is that winning the weather war is essential to abusing this heal. Lum berry on Volcarona helps it not fall so flat from a toxic, etc. Volcarona's weakness to rock seems to be its downfall. Stealth rock can destroy it. That is why Donphan rapid spin is necessary to clear things out before Volcarona is sent out. At times Volcarona can ignore the pesky stealth rock and anticipate a switch by the opponent. This gives it time to use Morning Sun. Morning Sun is such a great ability I cannot stress how well it is. I don't like the thought of only a one time heal with rest. Roost is also a considered move however Morning Sun can heal much more.

    Physical Sweeper
    [​IMG]
    Dragonite @ Lum Berry
    Trait: Multiscale
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Outrage
    - Fire Punch
    - Superpower
    - Dragon Dance

    Dragonite is my physical sweeper. The reason for my superpower to stop any opposing Heatran who may threaten my team. In addition Tyranitar can pretty much be decimated by the superpower as well. With a dragon dance the debuffs from superpower shouldn't be a problem. A well timed dragon dance and outrage combo has won me games. In addition the lum berry can cure confusion for some more buffing or another attack. Multiscale is great on Dragonite. Its weakness is speed and I don't like to run choice scarf as it limits Dragonite's moves, meaning a switch would be involved. Lastly, Dragon Dance is an excellent move, it can speed dragonite up and give it some nice offense. Dragonite is a truly wonderful sweeper.

    The Wall/Spinner/Layer of Entry Hazards
    [​IMG]
    Donphan @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
    Impish Nature
    IVs: 30 Atk / 30 Def
    - Stealth Rock
    - Rapid Spin
    - Ice Shard
    - Earthquake

    I run a defensive Donphan. Donphan is well needed in my team. His ability to remove entry hazards, put up stealth rock, take our dragons, and possibly threaten Terrakion or Heatran makes him very versatile. Donphan is just a really great pokemon. He really has a special place in this team.

    The Rain Abuser/Toxic Spikes/Dragon Destroyer
    [​IMG]
    Tentacruel @ Black Sludge
    Trait: Rain Dish
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 30 Atk / 30 Def
    - Toxic Spikes
    - Ice Beam
    - Giga Drain
    - Scald

    Tentacruel is a fairly new addition. However he seems to be really great. I can send him out when I expect a politoad, benefiting from rain dist, and a surprise giga drain can take politoad by surprise. In addition it can place toxic spikes. I love toxic. It is awesome. Gradually tearing down the enemy can allow this offensive team to enter defensive modes if it needs to. With the toxic spikes and the stealth rock (from the donphan) the enemy team with continuously face danger. The ice beam can destroy dragon types well. My evs are odd but they work. I like to have an offensive Tentacruel.

    The Sun Abuser
    [​IMG]
    Venusaur @ Black Sludge
    Trait: Chlorophyll
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Growth
    - Giga Drain
    - Sleep Powder
    - Hidden Power [Fire]

    Venusaur is awesome. I run timid nature so even without sun I can outspeed some pokemon. Growth Venusaur has sweeping capabilities as well. My hidden power fire is needed to stop magnezones and other grass types as well as scizor. I run sleep powder but am torn between keeping it or using sludge bomb instead. However sleep powder has proven that it helps me switch out safely into another pokemon and set up a sweep for that pokemon.
  2. Cinco Diablo

    Cinco Diablo formerly Dr Ciel

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2012
    Messages:
    1,233
    Hello.

    This is a very nice sun team you have here, MrMewTwo, it looks very similar to my BW1 sun team, so I'll rate this. Anyway, this team has some flaws, as every team does, hopefully my rate can improve this team and iron out the aftermantioned flaws. With that said, let's get to the rate now, shall we? Alright, first up, I would suggest running a Timid Nature on your Ninetales over your current Bold Nature. The main reason to run a Timid Nature on Ninetales is to outspeed and burn opposing Adamand Haxorus with a perfect predicted Will-O-Wisp. Moving on to your Volcarona, I would recommend running Roost over your current choice of Morning Sun. Roost isn't completely Sun reliant, and also has the advantage of having 5 more PP than Morning Sun. Up next, I would recommend using a Focus Sash Mamoswine in place of your current Donphan. Mamoswine is an excellent hazard setter, as it can set up Rocks, take a strong hit and net a KO with Endeavor and priority Ice Shard, with this ability, it can get some solid KOs on most Dragon typed Pokemon. Next, I would recommend using a Starmie in place of your current Tentacruel. Starmie is an excellent choice for a Rapid Spinner for a Sun team as it has decent defenses, a solid Water/Psychic typing, access to Recover and a great ability in Natural Cure. Well, that's all I have to say for now. I hope my advice helped. Have fun and good luck in your future endeavours!

    Mamoswine & Starmie (open)

    [​IMG]
    Mamoswine @ Focus Sash Lv. 100 -- Thick Fat

    Nature: Adamant - EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd

    - Earthquake
    - Endeavor
    - Ice Shard
    - Stealth Rock

    [​IMG]
    Starmie @ Leftovers Lv. 100 -- Natural Cure

    Nature: Timid - EVs: 252 HP / 32 Def / 224 Spd

    - Psyshock
    - Recover
    - Rapid Spin
    - Scald


    ~Dr Ciel~ (The doctor is OUT)
  3. Nova

    Nova kakakakakakakakaka
    is a member of the Site Staffis an official Team Rateris a Smogon IRC AOPis a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2011
    Messages:
    1,487
    Hi MrMewTwo

    Welcome to Smogon! This is a solid Sun team you've built here. Looking at it, I see Special Attacking Dragon types such as Latios and Latias to be threatening. Your team is not packing any Steel types so everyone these threats switch in, something on your team is going to be dented very hard by Draco Meteor. Your team also is weak to opposing Volcarona as well as Chlorophyll Venusaur. For Volcarona, you're going to have to pray Sleep Power hits it and against opposing Venusaur, you lose if you lose the speedtie with your Venusaur. To handle these threats a bit better, I suggest replacing Tentacruel with a Specially Defensive Heatran with a moveset of Lava Plume / Earth Power / Toxic / Roar. Heatran can tank Draco Meteors with his Steel typing and his great special bulk while wearing down Latios and Latias with residual damage from Toxic. He walls Volcarona, being immune to Fire type attacks and 4x resisting Bug type attacks as well as being able to wall Venusaur, with immunities to Poison and Fire and a 4x resistance to Grass. He can phaze around Volcarona with Roar, forcing it to take extra entry hazards damage and take out Venusaur with sun-boosted Lava Plume You can use an Air Balloon on Heatran to avoid a surprise OHKO from Hidden Power Ground Volcarona as well as Earthquake Venusaur. Losing Tentacruel is not that critical as Donphan is already providing Rapid Spin support and Heatran covers many of your team's weaknesses.

    Now for some smaller changes. On Ninetales, a Timid Nature instead of a Bold Nature allows her to outspeed Adamant Haxorus and cripple it with a Will-o-Wisp. For Donphan, I'd maximize the Attack and Defense IVs to 31, as there's really no point to lowering these stats on Donphan. Lastly, Roost over Morning Sun on Volcarona is nice for a consistent recovery move that allows you to heal 50% every time, instead of having to worry about it being lowered in other weathers outside of Sun.

    Hope I helped and good luck with your team!


    Set:
    Show Hide
    Heatran (M) @ Air Balloon
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 SDef / 8 Spe
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    -Lava Plume
    -Earth Power
    -Toxic
    -Roar



    tl;dr
    Show Hide
    Tentacruel ----> Specially Defensive Heatran
    Bold Nature on Ninetales ----> Timid Nature
    30 Atk and 30 Def IVs on Donphan ----> 31 Atk and 31 Def IVs
    Morning Sun on Volcarona ----> Roost
  4. Jimbon

    Jimbon fools and worthless liars
    is a Team Rater Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2012
    Messages:
    510
    Hi there,

    Interesting team you got here, but there are some problems I do see with this team. The main problem I see is that you have very little to take hits from opposing offensive teams, and your team itself is not really that offensive enough to compete with them. This means that every time a hard hitting Pokemon switches in, you're at risk of losing something, and your opponent can pretty easily do this 3 or 4 times throughout a match with no drawback. Your setup sweepers in Volcarona and Dragonite have solid counters that you seem to have problems breaking through. I'd argue Tentacruel is the most replaceable member of this team, being a complete liability if you're only using it to check rain, which it really cannot do that well and has no business switching into Keldeo / Thundurus-T / Jirachi. I think you could replace Tentacruel with a Magma Storm Heatran, which similarly gives you a good matchup against most Rain Teams, and should ensure you win the weather war much easier.

    Also looking over your Ninetales set, I'm not really convinced you're getting the most out of it. One of the main merits of using Sunny Day Ninetales is being able to beat Defensive Politoed, which you have a much harder time beating with your current set. I think you should shift those Defense EVs over to Special Defense, and try a Calm Nature while you're at it. This allows you to switch into Politoed a little easier, while you should need to worry about the loss of Defense when you have Will-O-Wisp, as well as Donphan and Volcarona if you need extra insurance against Scizor / Terrakion / Mamoswine. When you're using Ninetales, your only purpose is to keep the weather up, so I'd think you have a lot more success with this set given Ninetales much higher Special Defense. You might also want to drop 4 HP EVs on Ninetales, giving you an odd number of HP -- essentially an extra switch into Stealth Rock.

    I also noticed something when looking over your Dragonite set. One of the main benefits of Dragonite as a Dragon is access to Extremespeed, which compensates for Dragonite's relatively low speed with other Dragons in the tier. I think you could try it somewhere on Dragonite's set, probably over Fire Punch as if you choose to add Heatran, you already have enough Fire moves on your team to deal with Scizor / Skarmory / Ferrothorn, who really aren't a threat to Sun Teams anyway. Like I said earlier, your team is pretty prone to opposing Dragons, some of which still beat Dragonite after a Dragon Dance (Scarf Latias / Latios / Salamence), so at least you will have priority to at least get prior damage off, which should save you from being swept by faster speed boosters or scarf users.

    Finally, I think you could modify your Venusaur set slightly. While your current set is already very fast, there's really no relevant speed benchmarks you're hitting with your current speed investment. With a Timid Nature, all you need is 180 Speed EVs to outspeed Scarf Latios, which is the fastest common scarfer in the metagame. This means you can distribute some investment into HP, allowing you to take priority a little better, (Extremespeed, Bullet Punch, etc) which are all common attempts of revenging Venusaur. Additionally, I think you're trying to do a little too much with your current Venusaur set. I think you should drop either of Sleep Powder or Growth, otherwise Venusaur's coverage options really suffer. As a Chlorophyll abuser, you really can't sweep that consistently with two coverage moves. The best options for that extra coverage spot would probably be Sludge Bomb giving you another STAB option, or Earthquake to help against Heatran, but you might want to run some attack investment too if you go with that. I also think you could drop Hidden Power [Fire] for Hidden Power [Ice]. Like I said previously, I don't really think that Steel types are the biggest threat to this team, given that Volcarona sets up on pretty much all of them under Sun. Hidden Power [Ice] allows you to break through Salamence / Dragonite / any other Dragon who otherwise stops your sweep. I think you'll sweep a little more consistently if you go with these changes.

    Also agreeing with the comments about Roost > Morning Sun for Volcarona.

    Good luck!

    heatran (open)
    Heatran @ Leftovers
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 56 HP / 252 SAtk / 200 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk)
    - Magma Storm
    - Sunny Day
    - SolarBeam / Earth Power
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
  5. MrMewTwo

    MrMewTwo

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2013
    Messages:
    15
    Thank you for the feedback guys!
  6. YungHungCrock

    YungHungCrock

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2012
    Messages:
    14
    I'm going to second the idea of Specially Defensive Heatran in place of Tentacruel. Novaray's reasons (stopping opposing Venusaur, Lati@s) are major upgrades to your team defensively. In addition, your team appears too offensively inclined to make very good use of toxic spikes, while Donphan fills the role of rapid spinner.

    My biggest worry with this change however is large team weakness to Mamoswine (and to a lesser extent, opposing Donphan). Ice or Ground hit all of your team super effectively.

    Even for your guys that could outspeed it (Jolly Dragonite, Venusaur) Ice Shard is still a major problem (OHKO Dragonite w/o Multiscale, and upwards of 75% on Venusaur), and Ninetales can't do enough damage to threaten before dying to Earthquake/Stone Edge.

    A possible ideal solution to this problem is Bronzong. It's immunity to Ground and resistance to Ice shore up those weak spots on your team, and it provides great support by dual screening and laying down rocks. This I think would replace Donphan however, and I'm not satisfied with losing Rapid Spin (and neither is Volcarona), so unless we add a separate rapid spinner (Dr Ciel did suggest Starmie), i'll try something else:

    Cloyster
    A defensive Cloyster [248 HP/84 ATK/ 176 DEF] must just be able to solve your problems. It has the physical bulk to take even the most powerful physical hits (while Heatran takes them from the special side), while providing rapid spin support, as well as even laying down hazards of its own to clear the way for your sweepers.

    Proposed Set:

    Cloyster (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Skill Link
    EVs: 248 HP / 84 Atk / 176 Def
    Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spd)
    - Rapid Spin
    - Spikes
    - Icicle Spear
    - Surf

    Toxic Spikes can replace regular if you really want, but I think normal Spikes is more useful to your team. Ice Shard can replace Surf for Salamences and the like, but I went with Surf to take out Mamoswine.

    Sorry If I rambled at any point here, this is my first rate. Thanks for reading, and good luck.
  7. Shurtugal

    Shurtugal The Enterpriser.
    is a Pre-Contributor

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2011
    Messages:
    1,302
    Hello there!

    Ok so your weak to a lot of things, but namely Mamoswine and the Lati@s twins. You can't switch into either of them and they can OHKO just about everything. I'd look to get a clear counter to them both.

    So I'm having issues with this team. Namely, quite a few. For example, I don't see the point of Tentacruel on this team at all. TS is really bad and is usually only used if you already have Spikes / SR, and Tenta (however good), is also usually used for Rapid Spinning. With Donphan, Tenta is doing nothing. I'm looking to replace him.

    So unto the replacement. I would replace Tentacruel for Banded Scizor. It fixes the two problems I mentioned earlier and it allows further switch in to more dragon moves such as Salamence's Outrage. It also offers much required priority in the event you lose the weather war and posses no scarfer.

    Unto Volcarona. I would replace Morning Sun with Roost, since Roost is more consistent outside of Sun. Dragonite needs to run Dragon Dance over Superpower, which is really a bad move on LumNite. I'd replace Sleep Power for Earthquake (Heatran murders) and change Venu's nature to Naive. Also, you only need to hit 264 speed on +spe Venusaur, so change EVs to hit 264 spe and invest the rest into HP.

    Lastly, I would go with the Specially Defensive Ninetales over your current spread. It helps with rain better, and I would invest enough speed to hit 243, so you outpace Breloom. I don't see the reason for any more investment than that for speed.


    Summary​


    Ninetales: Change spread to hit 243 speed, maximum hp, and the remainder into satk.

    Volcarona: Change Morning Sun for reliable Roost.

    Venusaur: Change nature to Naive and run Earthquake over Sleep Powder.

    Dragonite: Dragon Dance over Superpower.

    Tentacruel: Replace for CB Scizor.

    Scizor Set (open)

    Scizor @ Choice Band
    Trait: Technician
    Nature: Adamant
    EV's: 248 Hp / 252 Atk / 8 Spe
    - Bullet Punch
    - U-turn
    - Pursuit
    - Superpower



    Good Luck
    ~ Shurtugal ~​

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